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I'm not sure how an army with 2 veil librarians is more skillful than an army with 1 veil librarian and Pedro. Especially when the list maker (Stelek) thinks that a 2nd veil librarian better serves his army than Pedro. I doubt that he makes very many of his army list selections to be nice to people.

Amen Brother.

Hord armies shouldn't be much trouble for a list like this provided a good player is at the helm but to be fair the same thing can be said about any well thought out list posted here daily.

Well, an experienced player will hold his Ork army in tight formation so that the drop pods cannot land inside of the Ork army. Suppose the Orks have some Trukks held back so that the drop podders (Sternguard 1st turn) cannot shoot them. Next turn the Trukks unload their Boyz, 21'' range, and charge the Sternguard. This means many dead Sternguard Marines. A sad day for the Emperor's Finest.

I'd drop a sternguard squad for a tactical squad [or two, depending on points]

That gives you more scoring units, for just a slight reduction in firepower. Besides, you only have 2 librarians anyway, at this point level might as well just have one per sternguard squad. If a squad is taken out, move their librarian to start doing the same with tactical squads.

Also, one Librarian with a Null Zone power is good enough I think. Give the other Avenger or whatever that power is that's the S5 AP3 flamer. Goes with the army and wreaks havoc.

Another thing I like about the sternguard is the way you can set the marine army up like a football defensive line, with the sternguard firing over/through squads of tactical marines. The enemy can't get you, meanwhile you're ignoring that cover save from shooting through your own unit. Score!

i'd rather take Pedro then 2 libarians then the sternguard count as scoring units.

Auretious Taak wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:@wuestenfux

Now your just exagerating(sp?). It's at least 3 dimensional. Your Pedro/Sternguard lists, your Vulkan lists, and your White scars lists w/or w/out the Khan. Ohhhh, and the 6 Ironclad list with support troops seems fun and useful. So at least 4 dimensional

Okay, I see there is more than one useful lists out there. But its really constained.

Seems it's 1-dimensional to me, EVERYONE seems fixated on Special Characters ONLY as their main HQ units to unlock all these abilities that a good old Chapter Master doesn't have. You all sicken me, at the least Stelek's list has NO Special Characters, and that in itself shows a much more flexible and skillful build.

Auretious Taak.

Wow, strong words by myself there...I wonder how much sleep I had at the time of posting. What I don't agree with is the amount of special character spam people have and how people will take say Eldrad Ulthran EVERY TIME over a normal Farseer because he is the most powerful Farseer around, and well we all know he's as good as dead, but there was only ever 1 of him in the entire Eldar race...point is, special characters have their places, and IMHO it's not in every single list regardless of what GW wants to encourage. Apologies for pissing anyone off, the whole Fluff verse Power Gaming argument has proponents on both sides I'll leave it at that.

Except to say this:

mikeguth 2008/10/08 10:27:44
I'd rather go for the twin Masters of the Forge, they're like Swooping Hawks on Steroids.....

I'd outright refuse to play anyone with 2 Masters of The Forge UNLESS they had 2 separate detachments from SEPARATE Chapters represented in the list. Read the background, heck look in the codex at the entire chapter layout of the Ultramarines. How many Masters of the Forge in the entire Chapter? ONE. GW or rather Matt Ward and the other playtesters made a nice slip on the background and the list here IMHO, a MotF is quite literally the No.1 Techmarine around, hence why he is the Master. The normal techies are in the Elites section. I don't understand why they can't take conversion beamers but meh.

Auretious Taak.

How does this army deal with Mech Armies like Eldar and Tau? If they place everything in reserve they can deal with your drop positions since you are forced to drop on turn 1. An Eldar Army with some Fire Prisms and Wave Serpents could be a problem. Heck, the gate of Infintiy is the core of your army and if Runes of Warding or P. Hoods stop it, you could be in trouble.

It just seems that you are relying on 3 expensive squads who still die as easy as regular marines.

Also, What would you do against thousand suns based army?

AdeptSister wrote:How does this army deal with Mech Armies like Eldar and Tau? If they place everything in reserve they can deal with your drop positions since you are forced to drop on turn 1. An Eldar Army with some Fire Prisms and Wave Serpents could be a problem. Heck, the gate of Infintiy is the core of your army and if Runes of Warding or P. Hoods stop it, you could be in trouble.

It just seems that you are relying on 3 expensive squads who still die as easy as regular marines.

Also, What would you do against thousand suns based army?

Thousand Sons have already been discussed - the Psychic power to force re-rolls of Invulnerable saves, coupled with AP 3 Boltgun shots, you can turn around and use the Drop pod as cover to counter the AP 3 of the Thousand Sons. I still reckon a rhino mounted 1000 Sons force could be an issue for this force, but that's just me.

The Marines don't have to drop the sternguard in on the first turn, there are other drop pod marines to drop, and if you come in from reserve, the other way to try would be to stagger the drop 12"-18" from your table edge because you move on from your table edge in a piece meal way. On that basis, you could stagger the drop across a wide enough area that you'd have overlapping fire arcs, and then even with this, there are two librarians who can use the gate of inifinity to drop in on top of those fire prisms and pound them out next turn, what's 3 dead sternguard from a single fire prism shot anyways when the prism is dead next turn, and there is a good chance that the Edar do not have enough supporting units on the field to counter this move?

Auretious Taak.

But, still..if gate of infinity is shut down (hood or runes), this army is in quite a pickle.

This seems to rely on too much on hopefully not getting gate of infinity shut down and the enemy not having superior mobility. It just seems a mounted enemy can keep their distance and shoot the heck out of you. Or pounce on you with powerweapons.

I'd drop a sternguard squad in favor of a Iron Clad dreadnought then take Multimelta flamer Landspeeders deepstriking. Sure their one hit wonders but Your whole point is to strike as fast as possible and cripple the enemy so much in one turn that you have a overwhelming numbers to theirs. Having a Ironclad drop in and fire smoke is fething brutal. Dropping in 2 sternguard with and the Libarians along with the Ironclad on the first turn would be pretty keen. Add into the fact that you can teleport out is pretty badass as models are usually grouped fairly tightly when it comes to CC so you will have a good selection to fire at with your heavy flamer.

Looks like a solid list for the most part.

My only concern would be lack of scoring units for objective based mission, however, objectives are kind of irrelevant if you outright wipe your opponent of the face of the table which is what it looks like you're trying to do.

This list just begs for Pedro Cantor, lol

Strikes me as a very brutal list, with the option to tone it down incrementally for friendly play.

I've seen a number of comments that need to remember something: You can combat squad after using a drop pod.

Basically, if you run 3x10 Sternguard squads there are 6 potential targets that should go down, and all in one round.

wuestenfux wrote:Basically, if you run 3x10 Sternguard squads there are 6 potential targets that should go down, and all in one round.

Agreed. The 3 the sternguard shoot at followed by the 3 sternguard in the opponent's turn...

DAaddict wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Basically, if you run 3x10 Sternguard squads there are 6 potential targets that should go down, and all in one round.

Agreed. The 3 the sternguard shoot at followed by the 3 sternguard in the opponent's turn...

Well, it works if you take 3 full Sternguard squads in drop pods since they can be combat squadded when they arrive.

wuestenfux wrote:

DAaddict wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Basically, if you run 3x10 Sternguard squads there are 6 potential targets that should go down, and all in one round.

Agreed. The 3 the sternguard shoot at followed by the 3 sternguard in the opponent's turn...

Well, it works if you take 3 full Sternguard squads in drop pods since they can be combat squadded when they arrive.

And hence a full 6 sternguard units to have to deal with...

As well as 6 tactical squads if you wanted. Has anyone thought of using Vanguard Vets. You can use the locater beacon and their Heroic Intervention together to get a powerful assault unit into close combat in one turn, combine that with pedro and its sick.

Billie_Joe wrote:As well as 6 tactical squads if you wanted. Has anyone thought of using Vanguard Vets. You can use the locater beacon and their Heroic Intervention together to get a powerful assault unit into close combat in one turn, combine that with pedro and its sick.

I just sat and looked at the concept nicely.

The Vanguard whilst not scoring, heroically jump in on Pedro's location, and assault keeping within 12" of the crazy man so as they all get +1 attack. That's a unit with 2 base attacks, 2 CCW's for an extra attack, Pedro's attack bonus, and a bonus attack for charging for a solid 5 attacks each. Power weapons scattered here and there and you have one very solid core that adds variety to the Sternguard exclusive list discussed here.

Nice find Billie_Joe.

Hmmm, throw in Shrike and a unit with him and they infiltrate and pulla combined assault in near Pedro as well, that could be cool also.

Auretious Taak.

Yeah, after having a good day to think on this list, I really hate Stelek for exposing me to it.

This is really the Dakkafex of lists. It's so goddamn strong, I have a hard time resisting it, but if I play it, I look like a jerk. Just like the Dakkafex looks like a jerk. He's got stupid bunny ears, and dumb stumpy little arms. Is he totally great, and a steal in points? Yes. He still looks like a jerk.

Stelek's list is a good example of a trick he employs a lot. Find a broken unit, take as many as you can, then figure oot the most effective way to deploy and support them. Works great, because:

How friggin broken are Sternguard? I mean, good lord... They're 25 points each. For that 25 points you get a Vet Sarge. Normally 30 points. But here, 25 points. Now add in their ammo, which is great, AP3, etc... But then turn to the Hellfire Bolt section, and note that it's a 36" range POISONED BLAST. What in the NAME OF GOD? Yeah, let's throw in 5 point Combiweapons, just to make sure that it's clear you need 3x10 of these.

I think it's pretty much a fact that Stelek's list is a monster with win written all over it. The question now is how to hide the bunny ears of lameness behind a few more fluffy units.

Seems like you'd want the Librarian, 2x Sternguard Pods, 1x Tactical Pod (to get your Sternguard on turn 1), then the rest into anything else, to distract from what a total beatdown you've got ready. Maybe some Scout Bikers with Beacon? Maybe some Devastators? Vanguard vets dropping on Locator Beacons works...

Ugh, curse you Stelek. Curse you and your presentation of near irresistable power builds.

Uh, about the Stern Guard special ammo. You're confusing Hellfire Shells (p.66) with Hellfire Rounds (p.100). All you get from the Hellfire Rounds is a Poisoned 2+ bolter, which is still pretty good considering.

Whoops. Duh.

Phryxis wrote:Yeah, after having a good day to think on this list, I really hate Stelek for exposing me to it.

This is really the Dakkafex of lists. It's so goddamn strong, I have a hard time resisting it, but if I play it, I look like a jerk. Just like the Dakkafex looks like a jerk. He's got stupid bunny ears, and dumb stumpy little arms. Is he totally great, and a steal in points? Yes. He still looks like a jerk.

Stelek's list is a good example of a trick he employs a lot. Find a broken unit, take as many as you can, then figure oot the most effective way to deploy and support them. Works great, because:

How friggin broken are Sternguard? I mean, good lord... They're 25 points each. For that 25 points you get a Vet Sarge. Normally 30 points. But here, 25 points. Now add in their ammo, which is great, AP3, etc... But then turn to the Hellfire Bolt section, and note that it's a 36" range POISONED BLAST. What in the NAME OF GOD? Yeah, let's throw in 5 point Combiweapons, just to make sure that it's clear you need 3x10 of these.

I think it's pretty much a fact that Stelek's list is a monster with win written all over it. The question now is how to hide the bunny ears of lameness behind a few more fluffy units.

Seems like you'd want the Librarian, 2x Sternguard Pods, 1x Tactical Pod (to get your Sternguard on turn 1), then the rest into anything else, to distract from what a total beatdown you've got ready. Maybe some Scout Bikers with Beacon? Maybe some Devastators? Vanguard vets dropping on Locator Beacons works...

Ugh, curse you Stelek. Curse you and your presentation of near irresistable power builds.

Stelek's list is brilliant. But I would only play it in a competitive environment (RTT).
Would you play it at a GT? I'm toying with this list for next year's GT. (This year I played Eldar in Heat and Final.)

You could probably work in Terminator armour for the Librarians , it at least helps somewhat.

Sternguard are horribly horribly effective units with a librarian. I have some bikes with Locator Beacon as well. Then I can just Move the Bikes around for placement. Turbo boosting is fun.

I don't think it's brilliant. I think it's a semi-solid list based on the draws he might pull. A lot of it hinges around people deploying at the beginning of the game. If they don't, he has to bring half those squads down and then he's reacting all game.

The libby's help with this but you have to be careful w/deep striking (though not as much as before) and a smart player will run his units meaning that isolating units to kill will be harder.

And god forbid this hit a new scars list or a bike heavy ork boyz army since they'll paste it. Even at 12" the sternguard (10 of them) will only kill 4 marine bikes and 6 ork bikes if they fire their bolters. Or what about a sisters list? Lots of armor and lots of vehicles.

That's just some examples of lists that this list would have trouble with. But hey, it's still solid, just not the thing to put on a pedestal and worship.

*looks at list*
*looks at tanks*
*puts cover on tanks. never to be seen or heard from again. hulk running away song plays.*

This is one of the most positively NASTY lists i've seen. deep striking all those meltaguns... i'd be afraid no matter what the situation might be. 'cept maybe if i've got a nightbringer randomly, and for god knows what reason, they decide to kill themselves by killing it... Is the new space marine codex really this broken? (haven't been able to play for 2 months, won't for another two)

I think there is a slight problem with this gate of infinity idea. The power can only be used at the beginning of the movement phase so once you land and disembark thats where you stay.

I think this list is too risky to pay off more than 50% of the time

It's worded strangely.


At the start of each Movement phase except the first, before moving any unit, the player must roll a dice for each of his unit in reserve.


Deep striking

Roll for these units as specified in the rules for reserve.

The gate of infinity.

This power is used at the beginning of the Librarians Movement Phase.


Drop Pod Assault

Drop pods always enter play using the deep strike rules from the Mission Special Rules section of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

At the beginning of your first turn, you must choose half your drop pods rounding up to make a Drop Pod Assault. Units making a drop pod assault arrive on the players first turn.


The wording is weird on all of that on what happens first but I would say that the drop pods come in and the librarian can use his Psychic Ability of Gate to teleport.


One of the many reasons maybe GW should actually consult each other and have maybe some sort of turn order or definition instead of using terms such as in the beginning and at the start of.

Aether wrote:I think there is a slight problem with this gate of infinity idea. The power can only be used at the beginning of the movement phase so once you land and disembark thats where you stay.

I think this list is too risky to pay off more than 50% of the time

I think the idea is to Pod in, disembark and kill something. Next turn, Gate to any Locator beacon, kill something. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Hollismason wrote:It's worded strangely.


At the start of each Movement phase except the first, before moving any unit, the player must roll a dice for each of his unit in reserve.


Deep striking

Roll for these units as specified in the rules for reserve.

The gate of infinity.

This power is used at the beginning of the Librarians Movement Phase.


Drop Pod Assault

Drop pods always enter play using the deep strike rules from the Mission Special Rules section of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

At the beginning of your first turn, you must choose half your drop pods rounding up to make a Drop Pod Assault. Units making a drop pod assault arrive on the players first turn.


The wording is weird on all of that on what happens first but I would say that the drop pods come in and the librarian can use his Psychic Ability of Gate to teleport.


One of the many reasons maybe GW should actually consult each other and have maybe some sort of turn order or definition instead of using terms such as in the beginning and at the start of.

To be honest I think its a little optimistic. What is being suggested is that a drop pod lands, the squad disembarks, but the librarian is still at the beginning of his movement phase. Any independant interpretation of the rules is unlikely to see it this way.

Still the plan could work but if it were used against me I wouldnt be that worried.

kadun wrote:
I think the idea is to Pod in, disembark and kill something. Next turn, Gate to any Locator beacon, kill something. Lather, rinse, repeat.

This.
The gate is your get out of jail free card, should someone try to tie you up in assault where you're significantly less intimidating.

@Captain

I meant lots of tanks and lots of 3+ saves. Meaning you choose one or the other. The sheer number you can get in a list for sisters is just dirty. And your statement doesn't make the list any better against true rapid reaction capable lists (i.e. bike, jump pack, or fast attack heavy).

As for the list i stand by that it is a good list but not ridiculous, broken, or all powerful.

Sternguard still have 2 attacks so I mean that is something at least.


The main problem though is them assaulting and killing the librarian.