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Honestly Nids don't need much of a change in whatever new codex they'll get. Also, I'm assuming they're pretty far out as far as the codex redo's go seeing as armies are still around from 3rd that haven't gotten their codex redone yet, Dark Eldar, Daemon Hunters, Witch Hunters, Necrons...

Anyway, everytime I've played against a Nid player I've lost horribly, might be due to my inexperience playing against nids, or my opponents taking advantage of me due to the fact I don't know the Nid rules, but whatever it is, I really don't think Nids need many changes. Hell, you could just put out a FAQ to fix the little things that are glitched since 5th, such as kill point spore mines.

If anybody thinks that Nids can compete with Mech guard and Vulkan marines they must be kidding themselves. For 130 points you get a Valk which can drop a more expensive Carnifex in a turn or two with a bit of help. We also face the LR Execution with Pask and Plasma sponsons backed by meltas in Chimeras to finish the job the other units started. Stealer shock will eat flamers and a mixed warrior list can be beaten by any mech build and various other lists.

Vulkan Marines with 2+/3++ termies, ap 3 sternguard bolters, twin-linker melta and flamers and tanks to boot will eat Nids alive as well. Not to mention mechanized Orks with hidden PK's and Deffrollas.

Genestealer:

WS 6 S4 T4 W1 I6 A2 Ld 10 Sv 5+ Fleet & Rending

Cost


Try to make it a synapse stealer out of a Warrior...

WS5 S4 T4 W2 I5 A2+1 Ld10 Sv 5+
Talon & Claw & Synapse

Cost 32

Wow, twice the cost for -1 WS, -1 I for +1 wound and +1 attack and no fleet.

I am not saying I want to field them just that it illustrates how TW are overcosted and why you see genestealers and/or MC armies.
I field shooty warriors with blast marker hell but I could never justify a "light" hq HTH unit of these.

For one, give them fleet so they can keep up with gaunts and maybe even back up an assault. It gives them a role in bug armies that other synapse can't do without costly wing biomorphs.


Ork Cost 6 WS4 BS2 A2 T4 2 S4 Shots 18" Range, Furious Assault

Fleshgaunt Cost 6 WS3 BS3 A1 T3 1 S4 Shot 12" Range Synapse Dependent

Imperial Guard Cost 5 WS3 BS3 A1 T3 2 S3 Shots at 12" range Grenades & +1 Shot with orders....

Gaunts are too overpriced and underpowered in 5th ed for any bug player to consider playing them as more than WoN objective holders and cover-save meatshields.

My suggestion would be leave the biomorphs as is but lower the base cost to something like 2. Get rid of WoN and you will have bugs thinking about playing hoard screens again or reasonably morphing up a dual-purpose Spinegaunt that is not too bad in HTH against normal stuff.


They work and do about the same thing. Both use beast rules, deep strike and - assuming synapse for the ravener - both can't be instant killed. Both rend - assuming the ravener pays for claws. The Warp Beast has extra attacks and a 5+ invulnerable... guess which one costs more?


I have to agree, with 5th ed it is time to get rid of the VC can only glance nerf. If not, the cost needs to significantly go down since with the new charts it just isn't worth the points.


Lictors need some help. Biovores need to be viable, like the idea of treating spore mines like chaos spawn and worth ZERO KPs.
(If not, just get rid of them... we kill valuable trees to print worthless rules otherwise.)

im just wondering as im an ork player how did rending get nerf the kill most troops on a 6 on a d6

orkylooter wrote:im just wondering as im an ork player how did rending get nerf the kill most troops on a 6 on a d6

While ignoring how strange that sentence was, let me explain: Rending USED to be: on a 6 to hit, auto-power wound. Very strong. As it is now, it's on a 6 to wound, auto-power. That's less likely than the first version. (in the first one, you rolled a 6, an enemy took a wound. Now you have to hit them first, in most cases making it 33% less likely.)

Rending is the least of my concerns. Ork Boyz vs Hormagaunts is just ridiculous:

Boyz (6 points)
WS4 S3 T4 A2+1 (pistol + ccw)

Hormagaunt (10 points)
WS4 S3 T3 A1+1 (talons)

Plus the boys have furious charge. Granted the Hormies will get the charge with leaping most of the time. Add on Toxin Sacs (12 points now) for the gaunts and compare equal point forces:

15 hormagaunts (180 points) vs 30 ork boyz (180 points)
Let the hormagaunts assault (since it's very likely):

45 attacks (hit 1/2, wound 1/2, fail save 5/6) 5/24 attacks kill. Let's say 9 for a round number (1 in 5 attacks kill).
There are now 21 orks left. Honestly, 9-10 of them probably weren't even engaged in the fight. So let's say 20 orks are able to swing back:
60 attacks (hit 1/2, wound 1/2, fail save 5/6), rounded to 1 in 5 killing attacks--12 casualties for the hormagaunts.

So now it's 3 hormagaunts vs 21 orks, and the hormagaunts need to make three 6+ saves or wipe to No Retreat.

I'm not expecting to dominate, but seeing two swarm army CC troops of equal point value--it's blatant that Tyranid troops are WAY too expensive.

Im fairly satisfied with the nids current codex i have 0 problems running the army infact im often shocked at how well they do.
Tho there are a few issues but keep in mind not every unit in a codex can be a great unit but they should atleast be effective in certain situations.

Things that i think need amending follow

Clarify the lictors secret deployment rules.

Ditch the glance only rule on VC or give us an alternative weapon for av that don't use the creatures base attacks.

Gargoyles and raveners could use some tweaks to make them more useful.

i dont understand what everyones problem with the hormies vs boyz there not going to stand up to orks period, the orks will crush them like the bugs that they are i mean i cant picture a better target for orks as they love to just go crazy and beat the crap outa stuff.

If you play your nids right your gaunts should almost always be infront of your hormies then have warriors or something else shooty behind them. gaunts fire into a mob of orks say 30 of them prob kill 6 warriors fire from behind and kill more orks lets say about 8
gaunts charge lose some but hold there ground next turn charge hormies and they will wipe out the rest, rinse and repeat.

What im geting at with all that is the tyranid army has to have all its units working i cooperation to succeed, in a unit vs unit scenario the a nid unit will not stand up another unit alone especial the non synapse units.

If we can't fight with boys we should cost less than boys. Guard got a drop fro basic troops the bugs should too.

Include the art that is in the current Codex... I flipped through the thing for the first time a week ago and loved the line drawings of some of the nids. In fact, I'm planning on buying it just for the art.

I think Nids need a point reduction for the little guys (gaunts and horms) to balance them out in the new equation based on the cost of a basic ork boy. I am happy with how the swarm plays now, if my little guys got cheaper I'd go from six 20 man troops to the full 32...

I hope they do something to make playing Tyranid swarm a little more appealing (points adjust as I mentioned would help but maybe some other unit based or army wide boost/fix to swarm play as well) and/or Nidzilla less of an option/appealing. It has gotten a little old to meet player after player who claims to play Tyranids who then just plops down six carnifexes and a couple of tyrants...

Beyond that I think the list is pretty good as is.

infernus1986 wrote:If you play your nids right your gaunts should almost always be infront of your hormies then have warriors or something else shooty behind them. gaunts fire into a mob of orks say 30 of them prob kill 6 warriors fire from behind and kill more orks lets say about 8
gaunts charge lose some but hold there ground next turn charge hormies and they will wipe out the rest, rinse and repeat.

What im geting at with all that is the tyranid army has to have all its units working i cooperation to succeed, in a unit vs unit scenario the a nid unit will not stand up another unit alone especial the non synapse units.

What I'm getting with all that is you call throwing 2-3 times the points value of ork boyz a success. What are you doing about the additional mob of boys that he bought to match your gaunt brood? Now he gets another 15 or so to match your warriors. If you throw gaunts + hormagaunts + warriors at those boyz, there's no longer 30 of them, there's 75-90 of them. You're opponent gets the same number of points you do, remember.

Tyranid troops are too expensive.

Change synapse to "all non-MC units under synapse have Feel No Pain". We've been trying it around the tables at the shop and it actually works quite well. No increase in their offensive potential, but it takes longer to wipe them out.

I'm all for taking the Carnies out of the Elite slot if it means they put them in squads in the heavy slot at 1-3 models per unit. This limits their shooting output but allows people to field a nasty wall o'big bugs. Basically if gaunts, warriors (other than deathspitter ones), and other options were viable then 'Nidzilla would be reduced without any changes being necessary. It's the dang new fearless rules in combat and the overcosted models that keep people playing 'Nidzilla.

Eugee wrote:
Change synapse to "all non-MC units under synapse have Feel No Pain". We've been trying it around the tables at the shop and it actually works quite well. No increase in their offensive potential, but it takes longer to wipe them out.

I disagree with this.

I'd rather see Synapse make nids fearless (thus untractable when lose combat) and confer catalyst: so they potentially take extra wounds when losing combat (seems right and fair, especially if they get cheaper) but be able to strike regardless of INt order/assaulting into cover, etc.which would represent them throwing themselves at the enemy at the urging of the hive mind in a wave of claws and fangs regardless of danger/losses which is very cinematic/fluffy...

I don't think th catalyst part will come to be, but I think synapse will chaneg to providing fearless instead of autopassing all LD tests.

And gaunts and hormahaunts will definately drop in points. I see a gaunt's base cost dropping to 3pts. and a horm to say 8pts. I think all the upgrades will disappear for both except for the different weapon options which will modify the base cost, thus a gaunt w/ fleshborer will cost 5pts. which seems in line w/ the base cost of a ork boy and an guardsman...

Here’s a quick response to a few of the more popular appeals.

All gaunts need more than a 6+ armor save. –And you would still want them to be fearless. Yeah… OP much? Your power is in quantity, not quality.

Needs moar armor penetration against spezz marehnz. –No. We have zoanthropes (arguable the best unit in the codex now that wound spreading is kosher) and mass fire power. Quantity of shots over the quality of AP will win the day.

Venom cannon de-nerf. –For the love of god yes. Please. You have to get within 18 inches with zoanthropes and 12 with carnifexes. Against better mechanized lists this appears to be an un-possible task.

Gargoyles need a buff – NO. Gargoyles are one of the best assaulting units in the codex. Move 12’, shoot at S4, assault and get one attack at S4 I8, two at S3 I4. All they need are plastic models.

Zoanthropes should lose the 0-1 restriction. –No, for the sake of balance. It’s a 2+ save you can wound spread on, it kills tanks and marines… what else do you what in our new codex, lightsabers? If anything, make warp field a 5+ invulnerable and leave it at that.

Lictors need a buff, badly. –Yes, they certainly do. 5+ save in combat, 4 attacks with a chance that less than one dice will cause an instant wound. They attack back, you die. Better armor or power weapons are needed here (not both!). It NEEDS to retain it’s reserves enabler status.

Raveners. –These guys need a total revamp from almost every angle. I don’t even know where to begin.
Make up for rending. –Genestealers can outflank now, that more than makes up for it IMO. Maybe, MAYBE, give them a 4+ save base. MAYBE.

Gaunts are worthless and only good for objective grabbing, price drop please! –No. Emphatically. I’ve had people ignore my 40 gaunts and go straight for the big things. The gaunts then massacre their infantry units and the big ones still have 1-3 wounds left across the board. They kill the gaunts. Boohoo, now the Big Ones are in their face with full wounds. BS3, S4, re-roll to wound. That is NOT bad in the shooting phase. I would expect a 1 point price drop to base cost and weapons at the most.

Synapse needs a reboot. –Don’t fix what isn’t broken. Yes, we suffer from no retreat, but that makes sense. Space marines don’t when they auto-pass, but then they pay 300 points for that privilege.

I think what this comes down to is that we want a small buff to each of the troop choices and major revamps to specific units (lictors, raveners, biovores). Please, please, PLEASE do not spam us with more types of units. Trygons I can understand but that should be IT. Period. The niches in the nid list have been filled.








Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, why are you charging ork boyz? Shoot them with stranglers, they have a 6+ armor save!

Slackermagee wrote:

Zoanthropes should lose the 0-1 restriction. –No, for the sake of balance. It’s a 2+ save you can wound spread on, it kills tanks and marines… what else do you what in our new codex, lightsabers? If anything, make warp field a 5+ invulnerable and leave it at that.

How are you wound spreading on Zoanthropes btw?

You buy 1-3 as a single force org choice but they are individual models correct?

Gaunts don't need and won't get a betetr save. They WILL get a points drop and remain the cheap and plentiful fodder/ swarm models they should be...

Lictors need something definately, not sure what exactly, but something...

Carnifexes WILL lose the elite slot option ,Id bet money on it.

Slackermagee wrote:Here’s a quick response to a few of the more popular appeals.

All gaunts need more than a 6+ armor save. –And you would still want them to be fearless. Yeah… OP much? Your power is in quantity, not quality.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, why are you charging ork boyz? Shoot them with stranglers, they have a 6+ armor save!

Hmm. What unit do I know that can have a better than 6+ save, fearless, higher toughness, furious charge, and more attacks than gaunts...Oh, right. Ork Boyz.

15 hormagaunts versus 18 'Ard Boyz

Hormagaunts charge.
45 attacks, 45/2 hit, 45/4 wound, 45/8 unsaved = ~5.6 dead orks.
Orks attack
39 attacks, 39/2 hit, 39/4 wound, 195/24 unsaved. 8.1 dead gaunts.

Gaunts lose by three, fearless wounds take another 1-2.

Consider that these gaunts are directly attacking the orks' weakness by preventing them from charging, and are still losing cc. If the orks charged...Well, sucks to be a gaunt.

15 hormaguants versus 18 'ard boyz

Orks charged
Hormagaunts attack
30 attacks, 15 hit, 15/2 wound, 15/4 unsaved = 3.75 dead orks
Boyz attack
60 attacks. 30 hit. 15 wound. 75/6 unsaved. 12.5 dead gaunts.
gaunts lose by 8 at the most generous,

When your opponent gets quantity AND quality, it's pretty hard to beat.

I say, don't change gaunts abilities. Instead, Drop The Hormy's down to 6 pt, and I will say that they are fairly balanced on ork Boyz. Dakka Gaunts should also drop to about 6pt a pop, with S3 Deathspitters, to balance vs shoota boyz. Spinegaunts should drop to 3, termies to 4, to make up for the 12" range on their guns.

Make Venom cannons cheaper, and able to penetrate stuff. Nids really need help Vs Mech.

Feeder Tendrils should cost more, Scuttlers a bit more, and you should be able to take Frag's and Feeder Tendrils on Genestealers. Drop the Cost on Extended Carapace and Scything Talons, and maybe the Genestealers themselves. Also, replace Rending with Power Weapons. Genestealers should rock the assault, not be stuck on AT duty.

Edit:
For Raveners, Make 'em move like Jetbikes. Lethaly Fast Medium attackers instead of sort of Fast, expensive Medium attackers.

Eugee wrote: Orks vs hormagaunts etc.

No-one ever-ever fields 30 ork boyz on thier own. Its always with a nob, PK & bosspole. Simple as, really.

I would never field a hormagaunt without +1str & +1ws and if Im going against standard I4 MEQ, +1I aswell.. but lets be generous to the hormies & just give them the first two upgrade;

30orks, Nob, Pk, Bosspole. = 220 (Assuming, favouringly, that they didnt take expensive big-shootas & as slugga boys for the extra attacks)

17 Hormagaunts, +1str, +1ws = 221

First turn -Hormagaunts swing & take out 14 boys. Orks swing back & take out 10 hormagaunts. Orks loose combat by four & loose four boyz (6+ save didnt help unluckily)

Second turn the hormagaunts swing & kill another 4 boyz.. the remaining 7 boys & the nob swing back & kill 5 hormagaunts. The hormagaunts loose combat by one & loose a model, leaving one remianing, locked in combat.

Third turn - Boyz eat hormagaunts.

The hormagaunts wouldve easily won if the boyz were Shoota boys and/or the hormagaunts had feeder-tendril support. With feeder-tendrils, the first charge wouldve dealt enough damage to kill 19-20 boys, the orks wouldve swung back for 7 dead hormagaunts & the orks wouldve lost combat by 10 & the squad will either loose 8 more orks from No Retreat! or get run down - as they would need 2's on thier leadership check which even with a re-roll would be unlikely.

See, properly equipped (both sqauds) things turn out differently.

Tyranids only need a few intuative hordey rules, a progression of the Hive-mind/Synapse rules but to work with 5th edition.. aswell as addressing some of the flawed units (Biovores/raveners etc).

Yes, however you're being dishonest in your comparison because adding feeder tendrils would would give the boyz enough points for a warboos which would allow them to shoot and get the assault off which changes everything.

If we give the gaunts a feeder tendril Broodlord then the orks have enough points to bring in a warboss with a Big Choppa. Now the points go as follows.

Orks: 295 pts.
Warboss Big Choppa, Cybork
30 Slugga Boyz, Nob PK and BP

Gaunts: 294
Broodlord, Feeder Tendrils
17 Hormagaunts +1 str, +1 ws

Simulation One (Gaunts Charge)

Broodlord swings and hits 3.75 times, and wounds 2.5 boyz who won't get a save.

The Warboss and gaunts swing at the same time, with the warboss hitting 3.33 times and wounding 2.22 times, the gaunts make .35 of a save. The gaunts strike for 22.5 hits and wound 15 times, the orks make 12.5 saves and lose 13 orks.

The ork boyz now swing back and wound 11.25 gaunts of which 10 die, the PK boy nob aims for the BL and hits wounds him for 1 wound. The orks now take two more wounds and the warboss takes one.

Numbers now stand at Orks 17 boyz, and a warboss with 2 remaining wounds, vs. and three gaunts and broodlord with 2 wounds. Next round the orks win easily losing only 3 more boyz, or a wound on the warboss.

Final Tally: Gaunts and Broodlord earn back only 140 points while the orks win back their points value and, if they aren't killed by nid shooting in the next round. Can still be usefull as they still have all the tools to kill and carnifex if they can get close enough.

That is the best case for the gaunts, if the orks get a round of shooting or the charge it becomes even worse.

So as we can see even in a best case scenario the gaunts don't have a prayer.

Norade wrote:
Orks: 295 pts.
Warboss Big Choppa, Cybork
30 Slugga Boyz, Nob PK and BP

Gaunts: 294
Broodlord, Feeder Tendrils
17 Hormagaunts +1 str, +1 ws

++

Um..

The broodlord wouldnt just have feeder tendrils, just as the Warboss wouldnt just have a big-choppa. The warboss & Broodlord are both IC so if they did charge, the broodlord would eat the warboss.

With a waaghh fleet move, you can assault a maxiumum of 18". The gaunts can asault a minimum of 19". Also, assuming the brood-lord doesnt actually make it but is within 2" of the back-most gaunt to give the squad prefered enemy USR.

First turn -17 hormagaunts swing (@ the orks) for 45.3 hits (34+11 on the re-roll). That equates to 22 wounds. This equates to 18 dead orks.

Undamaged warboss @ I4 & remaining orks @ I3. Orks hit 18 times and wound 9 of which 7.5 (8) hormagaunts die. The warboss kills one hormagaunts (1.3)

First turn results - Orks loose combat by 9 (18 vs 9 = 9 wounds lost by) which equals 7.5 (8) dead orks.

Second turn - Brood lord charges in & (nearly) kills the warboss. 5 attacks = 4.4 hits. Those hits equal 2.9ish wounds of which 2.48 are unsaved. So he should live. (Ideally the broodlord would attack the easier to kill orks but hey, ive done it now)

9 hormagaunts hit 16 times. This wounds 8 orks & 6.68 (7) orks die. Thats all the orks dead, as there were four left = (30 - (18+8+7))

Warboss strikes @ I4 (same as hormagaunts) & hits and kills another 1.3 hormagaunts (lets assume 2).

Second turn result - Orks lost combat by 5. (7 - 2). The warboss needs to make an unlikely LD roll under a 4 to stay in the fight.. otherwise the I7 broodlord should rundown the I4 warboss.

Granted, with the broodlord @ +1str, +1sv & feeder tendrils, I do have about 6 more points than you. No contest, tbh. Ive got an un-wounded broodlord (you didnt wanna try and fight him, tbh) and 7 hormagaunts left, enough to deal with another reduced strength ork mob.

Edit: Getting back to the OP.. a Biovore & its sporemines should really start to have the same relationship as a whirlwind and its castellen rockets - Meaning it doesnt vomit up killpoints every salvo. Also some more effective unique ammo types would be nice.

Your Broodlord would only be able to put a single wound on the warboss 0.88 percent of the time assuming the boss had the Cybork upgrade and the Broodlord charges. On his turn the Warboss will give back 1.04 wounds to the Broodlord. Also, with the Broodlord in their squad the Hormagaunts lose fleet and can't move as beasts, and if he isn't with the squad say goodbye to the bonuses. Without one of those things the Orks will win every time and unlike the Nids, Ork boyz synergize with there top tier HQ choices.

This is of course without bringing up mech orks which could bring in two squads of 11 boyz with a PK and Bosspole both mounted in trucks. They would now get a turn of shooting and have better maneuverability than the Hormagaunts, even if they don't Waaagh!, meaning they now get the charge.

When comapairing mech to nids; Nids will always lose. Comparing the troops point for point Nids lose. If we want to use the same points then 'Ard boyz in a truck will ruin your gak.

**Edit** Looking up the FAQ on zoanthropes... unsure if the codex lets you run them as a unit or forces you to run them as three seperate 'characters' deployed as a single unit. Codex says "Do not need to be placed together and operate independently during the game."

**Edit 2** I'm pretty sure what I was doing was not correct. No FAQ entry and the codex lacks that awesome word 'can'. Now that I think about it though... having three one man units might actually be better. They HAVE to focus fire on them one at a time.

On the subject of Ork Boyz, AGAIN: shoot them. Shoot them. Shoot them some more. You have large blast templates at S8 AP5, small blast templates at S5-7 AP6, small blast templates at S5 AP3, and then you also get dakka MCs, shooty warriors, etc. People don't want to melee nids, so I just tooled my list to shoot them on the turn or two extra it takes to get into melee. Against walking (or frankly, even mechanized) Orks... blast away. Them can't take your fire power... which is kinda sad really.

Also, played Mech Tau (the worst list to play with nids!) the other day on kill points of all things. Ended up 10 - 11 him, REALLY close game. Sometimes you don't have to have the awesome killy shots, just the volume of decent S6-8 shots.

Shoot them out of their battle wagons and trucks which are getting a 4+ cover save because everybody will have a KFF. Your average turns hooting with three gunfexes will net you three VC hits and a Barbed Strangler hit a turn. Half of those won't do anything, and half of the ones that his (against front armor on a B. Wagon) will fail to do anything if they do hit. On average you would use three fexes to damage one, though you would have a 66% chance of that damage being a destroyed or better result.

If you went second they can now Waaagh your nids and wipe you there with hidden P. Fists. They can out outflank your stealers with Snikrot and flamers, and loota spam will soften Tyrants and fexes for hidden PK's to finish off. Even you S6 spitters will have trouble cracking enough Trukks to matter, and even if you do shoota boys will fire back with more shots, or slugga boys wil run and Waaagh! if they've been forced to go first.

EDIT: They focus fire to gain a KP for each one. On average even shoota boys, foot slogging mobs of 30, can put a wound and a half a turn on Orks and that is without any BS fire.

EDIT 2: How is mech Tau worse than playing Mech guard, Vulkan SM, Dual Lash, or Nob Bikers for Nids?

You're right about dual lash, never played it but looking at the list it looks nasty. Nob bikers die to S8 large blast templates, period. Just keep making them roll dice and the mans will fall down.

With the KFF, yes they will have a 4+ cover save emanating from two HQ choices BUT there are going to be models that aren't mechanized (I don't know of an ork player up here who plays all mechanized). Shoot a strangler at the center mob. Does it scatter? It still hits something because that mob is going to be surround by 12" of models in his deployment zone. Maybe you hit/glance a vehicle, maybe you catch another squad, regardless you hit something 4/5 times in my experience. Hidden P-fists are a problem only if they assault you. If you get a round of shooting off first you are (with fleshborers) hitting on a 4+, wounding on a 3+ with rerolls, and they ignore their armor save unless they happen to be next to the big mek. Not everyone rolls with two big meks either, people like their crazy war bosses.

The point of this is, yes there are lists that will knock down nids. I've not played one that specifically knocks down nids. Most games have been pretty even, to the point of almost drawing. The only exception was when a truck of burnas got through all the high strength fire to take out a brood of gaunts in one turn.

If you're not playing a a higher tournament level then you're not seeing what it takes to compete. Dual Lash, will destroy you as it lashes units out from cover being given by warriors, gaunts and into double tap plasma gun or flamer range for near instant death and/or triple powerfist assault. Against a T6 carnifex, you will take 4 wounds in the shooting and possibly take a PFist to the face as well, and your Gunfex will be hit for two wounds after dealing 0.277 of an unsaved wound back to the Oblits. Thus if played right current nidzilla will lose 2 MC's a turn to that and one more will take a wound from the other three Oblits using Lascannons.

Fully mech Orks, which are fast becoming the best choice, will laugh at you if your template's hole isn't over one of them, and with two KFF's or even one and the rest of the army using terrain or other vehicles for cover they will laugh as well. Even if that template is dead center on a trukk in cover you only have a to do 0.347 of a stunned, immobilized, or destroyed result (Weapon destroyed doesn't effect them much). So it will take you an entire Carnifexes shooting to have a better than 50/50 chance to slow down an orks ride.

New guard can have easily 2 dozen or more multi-laser shots, that is of course after they frustrate you by using a Russ and smoke to help screen their chims. After that your MC's will be soften by S6 lasers and long range pieplates before meltas finish them and you horde will simple have hull HF's eat them while five guard per chimera fire into them from the open top.

Vulkan, I don't know enough about to give good examples, but I know he brings TL multi-melta and TL flamers and heavy flamer to the table mounted on bikes and land speeders or in Rhinos and with +2/3++ assault termies with thunder hammers ready to chew your fexs and tyrants up at will.

I haven't even mentioned eldar jet councils and denial units that you won't catch in CC, or crusher weaver rushes yet either... So basically, if some mech tau are the worst you face, you just don't know enough to talk.

EDIT: And these list knock down a lot of things, not just nids so if you head to 'Ard Boyz you will see many of these in later rounds.

Skinnattittar wrote:I would just like to see more Tyranid players in general. Make that a rule;

Lord of the Hive Mind : More Tyranid players.

I would take a Tyranid army myself, but I already have Guard and SM. My next interest in armies is Ork. I don't need THREE high model count armies! Guard is bad enough, them and Orks is insane! Orks, Guard, AND Tyranids?! I only have two hands!!!

OOOH I just started a Nid army so your rule is already starting to work.

What sticks out to me as feasible fixes:
-Spore mines don't count for KP
-Glancing only removal from VC
-One to two point Hormagaunt cost reduction (maybe gain WoN at an optional cost)
-Biomorph clean up (obvious ones like Symbiote Rippers).
-Give the Elite Carnifexes their own Elites slot. My thinking is that you remove the 115pt (and 1500pt game) restrictions and replace with the stats of a standard Fex. The Elite fex would have access to maybe 3 weapon choices and a handfull of biomorphs. The Heavy Support Fex would automatically come with improved WS, 5 Wounds, Initiative of 2, and a 2+ save. Maybe start him around 120pts base. He would have access to more biomorphs than the Elite.
-Remove rending option from MCs Biomorph list.
-Genestealers keep points at current level, but gain Infiltrate and Scouts (may select one) and are reduced to WS5 and I5.
-Introduction of an alternate HQ choice. I'm thinking along the lines of a more Synapsed based Zoanthrope. Could have extended Synapse range, access to Tyrant Guard-like creatures. Acts as a powerful beacon to the Hive mind. Has an unlimited range Bombardment attack like the SM Chapter Master, or IG Master of Ordnance.
-Give Broodlord Fleet and Scout.

I think a lot of the Biomorphs can be either simplified or intergrated into several units automatically. The trend of reduced wargear options leads me to believe this and I think it will make it easier for others to understand the Tyranid options (if you don't own the book it's hard to memorize all of the options).

Lictor has Rending.

I think the Broodlord needs a HUGE price increase (being someone who plays against 'nids, not with them). A Character-show down with my Necron lord vs my mates broodlord, Lord is crushed to a pulp before it even attacks.

And they definitely need plastic Gargoyles. No-one uses them.

The Broodlord does not need a price increase. A souped-up version of the games best assault troops vs a generic character from the 2nd worst assaulting army... Any bets?

What the Broodlord needs is Fleet. As is it's a super stealer that slows it's Retinue down.