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So what do you want to see in the next Codex for the bugs?

A few things needed IMO:

Armor saves. It would be nice to make them on something other than Tyrants and Fexes in a game.

Ranged Tank Killing Ability: Take away the stupid Venom Cannons can only Glance rule.

More ability to overcome opponents armor, notably that of Marines, especially in CC.

Freedom from Synapse: This is more based off of the fluff. In stories and such there are simply hordes of Gaunts with no synapse creatures in sight. There should be a Gaunt rule or something that allows you to not need Synapse if the point total of the game is less than 1000.

my wish list for nids:
1. Synapse becomes line of sight not 12" or maybe just increase range to 18-24" maybe.

2. remove the kill points rule on spore mines, thats just stupid

3. taking two of the same weapons eg. venom cannon. doesnt have to be twin linked.

4. increase the toughness of raveners or the save, maybe T4(5) or Sv4+/5++

5. much cheaper base cost of hormagaunts to 6 with no bio-morphs

6. another type of spore mine, maybe

7. cheaper biovores and increase in Ld to maybe 8-9?

I would just like to see more Tyranid players in general. Make that a rule;

Lord of the Hive Mind : More Tyranid players.

I would take a Tyranid army myself, but I already have Guard and SM. My next interest in armies is Ork. I don't need THREE high model count armies! Guard is bad enough, them and Orks is insane! Orks, Guard, AND Tyranids?! I only have two hands!!!

Personally, I'd remove the Without Number upgrade. It's simply unnecessary. I could leave a unit of Burna Boyz at the Tyranid player's table edge and farm kill points. Also makes Tyranids all but immune to the Wipe Out! rule. Imo, you need to able to wipe out the enemy. There is no point in playing if you can't.

Just my two cents.....
Ive always felt that Nids have been better off for being able to produce some broken sick armies (2nd Ed for example, Need I say more for Fracks sake!)

Nidzilla today is still a pain in the rear to deal with. Yes it isnt unbeatable, but its sure is one giant speedbump to overcome. I feel that other then a casual update to smooth over a few 5th Ed inconsistencies they dont really need a serious overhaul/update.

Granted im no nid player, but a very good friend of mine is and he does not want the current codex to change at all because he wins a good 2/3rds of his games in 5th.

Personally, I hate over running my opponent. Rarely happens, as I mentioned before, I play Guard, but when it does, I a) don't enjoy not having a challenge and b) feel a little bad for the other player, who must be a bit frustrated. So maybe the Tyranids do need their cheese army lists castrated a bit.

I totally disagree, i went up against a sisters of battle army the other day, i took without number rule of 4 of my troops and i couldnt touch them, too many flamers and heavy bolters.

and personally when i take my eldar i love someone trying to swarm me with troops it's really fun. but thats just IMHO ^^

The big one for me is more dependable armor killing from a distance. Not a rule, but sale Hormagaunts and Gaunts in their own boxes. If I need Gaunts I have to spend twice as much.

Sort out the hormagaunts 'beast' rule. They can't move into multiple story building ruins due to this. Very annoying if someone wants to get anal about the rules. I play house rule that they can though.

I too would like to see some kind of long range tank busting, and a price drop on gaunts. Synapse adjustment would be good for smaller games, too.

Im fine with synapse. I would like raveners to be able to enter combat the turn they deepstrike. That would justify their pts cost. I knwo they move fast but like it says in the fluff "they are vulnerable to heavy weapons fire". Whats the point in deepstriking when all you can do is ...nothing.

Gargoyles could do with a small buff. No one fields them
1. they are too expensive pts wise (they are really just very fast gaunts)
2. they are still metal miniatures.

GW, give us a reason to buy them.

For the mainstay of a nid army, warriors armour save is pretty pathetic. Bump it up by 1 for a 4 pt cost increase(could just be me though).

And this could also just be me, but why oh why cant stealers be given feeder tendrils AND flesh hooks...come on!!

Tankbusting on the VC seems reasonable. Its not like its overpowered... at best the S10 cannon only gets 2 shots that hit on a 4+...

Yeah...... Then why cant any other STR 10 gun in the game fire 2 shots that hit on a 4+?? That would So make Vindicator tanks worth it.

Yeah flamers are deadly, but if you time it right you can charge without them ever getting a shot off. Not trying to be mean but to me it sounds like you may have made just some bad tactical decisions in the game, not the army itself.

Gargys are junk. I agree they need a plastic upgrade and some new stats.

And Ravs should be able to assault when they DS. If not drop there Points.

Most of my problems with Nids were the models...

Gaunts and Hormagaunts need separate boxes (already mentioned).

Warriors need a better way of representing options. For extended carapce you have to buy a shed load of boxes just to get enough of those extra shoulder pads. There's also no way to represent the increased BS option without green stuff.

As for rules, my only real bugbear is "Without Number". If playing objective games, you can ignore the gaunts until the last turn and then wipe them out, so that the new unit is all but useless. If playing annihilate, then yes, you can pratically farm kill points. To solve this, I would make it possible to voluntarily wipe out a gaunt unit. The unit would then go into reserve and would have infiltrate/scout rule, so that it can come on from any table edge. This would prevent units lying in wait for the bonus kill points and represents the Tyranids surrounding their enemy.

Thoughts for the next Tyranid Codex?

Well it's pointless to talk about rules without talking about what will drive the rules - models.

They can buff Gaunts in the next Codex because everyone has 'Zilla Nid or Stealer Shock armies, so people will have more of those than they have Gaunts. This way they buff Gaunts and people have Zilla/Stealer lists have to go and buy them, and they avoid having to make a new expensive kit.

Carnifex options get changed around almost completely in order to generate sales of the kit again and force people to buy more to rework or reconvert their existing ones.

Stealers get nerfed.

Hive Tyrant has its options changed around, requiring existing ones to be broken apart or new ones be bought.

Lictors become awesome, so they can sell that model.

Zoanthropes become more numerous in the list, so people buy more.

Tyranid Warriors go through the same revision as Gaunts - they become awesome so everyone rushes out to buy them, and GW doesn't have to make a new kit.

Do people use Raveners now?

Plastic Garoyle kit and prime candidate to be the new model with completely different yet completely crap rules (every Codex has one!).

And because, like with Marines, there's little that hasn't been done two or sometimes even three times, GW will have to start inventing new units (ala Stern/Vanguard, Thunderfire, Redeemer, Storm, Ironclad) in order to generate new sales. Most of these new units, whatever they may be, will have killer rules and will be impossible to ignore, with a few duds thrown in for 'balance'.

BYE

H.B.M.C. seems about on the dot ,but you forgot to rush the codex out leaving tons of rules questions and a few spelling errors.

personally i think people see the biggest problems are bad saves and synapses. The models are pretty low cost do they need to have a great armor save. Synapses could use a bit of reworking.

deviant cadaver wrote:H.B.M.C. seems about on the dot ,but you forgot to rush the codex out leaving tons of rules questions and a few spelling errors.

Agreed and Agreed

I played nids in 3rd and 4th edition, and started up again a few weeks ago for 5th edition.

One thing I must say is the current nid codex is very balanced. It provides a very unique type of army to play that can pack a punch, without being cheesy. Most of the 5h edition rules carry over nicely to it and overall I feel that the list is barely lacking. There are 2 major issues and 2 minor I think should be dealt with.

1. Venom cannon: it was fine in 4th ed. when you could roll a 6 and destroy the vehicle but those rules are gone with 5th edition and its left a serious hole in the nids list.

2. Biovores.

The 2 minor issues is the useless upgrade options for the canifex, and the unadjusted points for the bonuses that some of the upgrades now convey. That and they NEED to make a universal biomorph sprue so people can have all the little pieces that they need to WYSIWYG.

The Grundel wrote:
The 2 minor issues is the useless upgrade options for the canifex, and the unadjusted points for the bonuses that some of the upgrades now convey. That and they NEED to make a universal biomorph sprue so people can have all the little pieces that they need to WYSIWYG.

Agreed

I think that the VC should stay as just glancing hits. How does poison destroy a vehicle?

^ How does a THOUSAND different things happen in 40k. Come on man.

(and to answer your question if I throw a VX gas waterballoon at your windshield and you crash and die. I just destroyed a vehicle with poison.

i would really like to see the release of seperate boxes for hormagaunts and termagaunts, like ork boyz, 10 in a box but for 30 or 25 AUD

Cheese Elemental wrote:I think that the VC should stay as just glancing hits. How does poison destroy a vehicle?

Simple call it something different, like Acid cannon.

the nid codex is pretty good as it is. there are power builds of course, but [almost] every army has them. make your army better and they wont seem so tough.

a few things that do need to be changed:

lictors should get better. the fluff is great and the model is cool but the rules let it down.

hormagaunts could be with a little improvement, making them 6-7pts would be a start.

the cost of giving raveners guns should decrease. paying an extra 6pts for something useful to do on the turn they DS is too much. they should not be able to charge on DS, rending attacks out of nowhere would be too good, even with the nerf to rending. i could see them being kept at the same cost, but everything within 6" has to take a pinning test or something.

nid infantry dont need a good armour save. there are lots of them, that is their defense. if you increased their save you would have to increase their points cost, which would mean you would have to have less so GW would sell less models, so that wont happen.

Cheese Elemental wrote:I think that the VC should stay as just glancing hits. How does poison destroy a vehicle?

Ok. I'll fire a crystal of corrosive poisons at you at the speed of sound. Tell me how much it hurts.

BYE

Price breaks -- mostly aimed at Gaunts and Warriors would be the main fixes, IMO. If Orks are worth 6 pts, you could make the case for Gaunts at 4. A 5+ save (either base or as an option) might help at combat res time. However it happens, they need to become better tarpits again.

Lictors need a complete rethink. Carnifexes need biomorph fixes. Biovores just need a tweak.

Ravenors getting scouts/infiltrate (and thusly outflank) would sort out a lot of their problems whilest maintaining their theme.

As to anti-tank shooting, I think it would be nice if the warriors reclaimed their shooting role some and got access to a valid anti-tank gun (something in line with a krak missile is what I am thinking) good enough for taking down most vehicles but still leaving CC as the preferred vehilce munching method for Carnifexi and the like.

Jack

Give lictors 5 attacks base (4+1 for ScyTals), along with Poisoned (2+/4+) Rending Power Weapons. Make them immune to Dangerous Terrain tests when they arrive from reserve (as that's idiotic). Lose the Feeder Tendrils rules. Give them a 4+(I) or 5+(I) save.

WS6 BS0 S5 T5 W3 I5 A4+1 (or 3+1) Ld10 Sv4+/4+(I) 80-90 points each.

BYE

gorgon wrote: Biovores just need a tweak.

Give them a large blast option Mine.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Give lictors 5 attacks base (4+1 for ScyTals), along with Poisoned (2+/4+) Rending Power Weapons. Make them immune to Dangerous Terrain tests when they arrive from reserve (as that's idiotic). Lose the Feeder Tendrils rules. Give them a 4+(I) or 5+(I) save.

WS6 BS0 S5 T5 W3 I5 A4+1 (or 3+1) Ld10 Sv4+/4+(I) 80-90 points each.

BYE

Agreed

I'd like to see a return to some of the stuff that made me fall in love with Tyranids in the 2nd edition, like calling Termagants 'Termagants' again now that Hormugaunts have their own unit entry again.

I'd like to see Bio-Plasma go back to being a ranged weapon.

I'd like to see Adrenal Glands allow a model to run and then shoot. Maybe have it give Tyranids a 12" assault range or something, to remove the 5th edition weirdness about running and shooting.

I'd like to see the Venom Cannon be a barrage weapon again, like the Thunderfire Cannon. It's a biological railgun!

Plastic Gargoyles would be peachy. So would a Ripper Swarm like the resin Forgeworld one.

Tyranid Warriors need to go down in points and down in $$$. Ditto with Ravenors. Give Warriors a specific Winged variant, like Gargoyles are a variant of the Termagant.

Fast Attack Spore Mines should be dealt with like Spawn, not using up a FOC slot, except without counting against a Tyranid player if they're destroyed.

Remove the Elite Carnifex slots, and allow players to take broods of Carnifecies, and allow multiple units of Zoanthropes, and Biovores. Allow the big version of Spore Mines as a Heavy Support Choice.

Synapse-wise, what with No Retreat! and whatnot, let lesser creatures like Termagants use a Synapse Creature's Ld rather than being Fearless in all but name, and always able to try to regroup if one model is within Synapse range. Make Synapse Creatures Stubborn rather than Fearless.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Well it's pointless to talk about rules without talking about what will drive the rules - models.

They can buff Gaunts in the next Codex because everyone has 'Zilla Nid or Stealer Shock armies, so people will have more of those than they have Gaunts. This way they buff Gaunts and people have Zilla/Stealer lists have to go and buy them, and they avoid having to make a new expensive kit.

Bring back the hive mind mutants from 3rd, which bumps thier leadership up to 10. I still find the biggest problem with guants are two fold. 1) Stealers are better 2) Guants outrun synapse

Carnifex options get changed around almost completely in order to generate sales of the kit again and force people to buy more to rework or reconvert their existing ones. Hive Tyrant has its options changed around, requiring existing ones to be broken apart or new ones be bought.

Go Go Magnetize Arms

Stealers get nerfed.

GW already beat you to the punch when they brought out 5th edition :S

Lictors become awesome, so they can sell that model.

Give them the polymorhine drugs ability that Callidus Assassins have. No more dying to difficult terrain tests and or enemy models that they scatter onto.

Zoanthropes become BS 3, so people buy more.

Fixed your quote

Tyranid Warriors go through the same revision as Gaunts - they become awesome so everyone rushes out to buy them, and GW doesn't have to make a new kit.

Much easier and cheaper for GW to make a rules change than to go out and buy a new injection mold which might cost them $80-100K. Still, with the changes to blast rules, DS warriors have much more viability than in 4rth. So they have already made some progress thier.

Do people use Raveners now?

I have 5 beautifully painted ones sitting on my shelf. I have heard tales that some people use them in Apocolypse.