Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:The Broodlord does not need a price increase. A souped-up version of the games best assault troops vs a generic character from the 2nd worst assaulting army... Any bets?

I see your point there...

I think that the main reason that Nids need a rework is that with 5th and the advantages of playing Mech Armies, Nid players are forced into one specific build with lots of Monstrous Creatures. It would be fun both for Nid players as well as their opponents to see builds other than Nidzilla with lots of monsters. There are also other things in 5th that profoundly affected the balance of how some nid builds work and need rethinking. Anyway here are some of the best ideas that I found floating around:

Universal rules:
Fleet: Tyranids are fast. When they fleet or run roll 2 d6 and pick the highest.
Synapse Creatures: The Hive mind is one. All Synapse creatures can capture objectives.
Instinctive Behaviour: you do not choose whether to roll or not for leadership outside of synapse. If you are outside of synapse (but not in combat) you roll a d6: 1-3 fall back to nearest synapse creature (board edge if there are none left) 4-5 Lurk 6 Charge: move, fleet and charge to nearest enemy & unit gains Furious Charge.

Force Organisation

Only one from below if you have 2 HQ's
Walking Hive Tyrant - Ripper Swarms can capture objectives
Winged Hive Tyrant - Allows Gargoyles as troops.
Broodlord - Gives Genestealers Scuttlers as standard and his unit can come from the opponent's table edge (like the Ork Kommado special character)
Warriors - Gives gaunts scuttlers as standard (for no extra points so can still take WON)


Units

1. Lictor - clear up the DS into terrain. Flesh hooks means that you cant counter-pile-in when you get charged, enabling the lictor to charge the corner of a unit, kill a couple guys and get no return attacks back. Perhaps flesh hooks should only be available to the Lictor as an upgrade. Drop the points cost. Make him T5. Make him able to assign the wounds he deals.

2. Gaunts -
A. cheaper
B. Re-introduce the spike rifle.
C. As I said above, they need some sort of viable anti tank option. One of the ideas floating around was the weight of numbers attack. The mechanics is still sketchy, but idea is that the more gaunts you have assaulting a vehicle the easier it is to tear down. You could either have it that more gaunts make it easier to hit, easier to penetrate, or easier to damage. My preference is that based on the number of gaunts in the brood you get a + modifier on the vehicle damage chart that preserves to some extent the invulnerability of some vehicles to light infantry (the rear armour 10 on vehicles I am guessing is a designer indication of preference of how vulnerable to assault it should be).
D. Hormagaunts should just be gaunts with scything talons and leaping. No need for them to have a separate entry, just like we dont have a separate entry for Termagaunts - they are just fleshborer gaunts.

3. Carnifexes - maybe they could buy fleet as a biomorph? Perhaps the elite only, or the heavy only. Allow the Heavy ones access to a Feel No Pain biomorph or perhaps change Regenerate to FNP

4. Warriors - need a viable anti tank option. Perhaps remove the restriction that only 1 warrior can take a venom cannon per brood and allow venom cannon to be taken by as many warriors as are in the brood. A +1 str Venom Cannon warrior with scytals (no BS upgrade) costs 41 points. Lootas cost 15 points each. They would both be str 7 weapons, both 2 shots (lootas on average are 2), both BS 2, but Lootas can penetrate, VC cannot (atm). That still looks underwhelming as its power is not nearly triple the Lootas. Wings are too expensive. Warriors should be T5.

5. Biovores - Need a boost in leadership. Frag mines should be str 6, and toxin should ignore cover. Idea of a cryo mine is cool (if you get hit by it you lose your armour save for that turn. If its a vehicle armour reduced by -1)

6. Broodlord - needs fleet. Can give genestealers scuttlers as standard. Should be T6. The IG special character Iron Hand is virtually a broodlord for less points.

7. Spore Mines - should not count as Kill Points. Allow to take Mieotic Spore sacs.

8. Ripper swarms - can buy FNP

9. Tyrant Guard can also buy extended carapace.

10. Zoanthropes - you can combat squad them if you like. So in theory you can keep them as 1 unit and save on Kill Points. Decide on deployment.


Biomorphs/Weapons:
-Venom Cannon: Same as current but just -1 on Vehicle table (except open topped)
-Scything talons: grant +1 attacks, and allow any roll of 6 to hit to grant a second attacks. You cannot gain additional attacks off these extras or off of re-rolls (such as with feeder tendrils), only the first roll. A second pair grants an additional +1 attacks, and allows an extra attack on a roll of 5+, and allows the model to gain additional attacks off of re-rolled misses, but not off of the additional attack rolls.
-Rending Claws: as normal with 1 pair. 2 pair grants +1 attacks, and rends on a 5+. On Monstrous Creatures, or other models which already ignore armour saves (such as a Carnifex or Brood Lord), a succesful rend will deal an extra wound to a model with wounds, or grant +1 on the damage chart against a vehicle. This second effect is ONLY for models which already ignore armour saves equipped with rending claws.
-Crushing Claws: Each pair adds +1 to the vehicle damage chart or inflicts D3 wounds in close combat. (2 pairs would be +2 vs vehicles and each wound would cause D6 wounds).
Symbiote Rippers: Ignore 1 wound due to no retreat. Perhaps you can buy more than 1 symbiote.
-Bonesword: Reroll to hit both vs infantry as well as vs vehicles. Is also a Force Weapon.
-Bioplasma: Should be a template weapon. Perhaps on monstrous creatures should be st6 ap3.
-Tail weapons should work regardless of the # of enemies in base.
-Toxic Miasma should stack
-Spine banks are offensive grenades
-Thornback is defensive grenades.
-Acid Maw should work in all combat rounds, and should always glance a vehicle on a 6
-Lash whips should affect models attacking a lash whip tyranid, not just models in b2b.
-Perhaps introduce a poison biomorph that allows models to wound on a 4+

Psychich Powers

Warpfield: Grants a 2+ armour and a 5+ invulnerable
The Horror: Same as current but units in 12' lose fearless, stubborn and ATSKNF.
Shadow in the Warp: Same as current but you suffer Perils
Catalyst: Gives a brood within 24' +1 Attack for this turn

Man, am I ever glad I read this thread. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this stuff needs to be reworked pretty thoroughly.

3. Carnifexes - maybe they could buy fleet as a biomorph? Perhaps the elite only, or the heavy only. Allow the Heavy ones access to a Feel No Pain biomorph or perhaps change Regenerate to FNP
8. Ripper swarms - can buy FNP

While having FNP Carnifexes and Rippers would be awesome, it would also be absurdly broken unless you overcosted it (the upgrade and/or the unit, that is) to the point of making it useless. That's not going to happen. Fleet on Carnifexes seems a bit iffy given that they're freaking huge, but maybe as an upgrade on the cheap ones. I could see that.

Synapse being able to capture objectives is a stellar idea. In fact, it'd make a lot more sense to me if they made it so that only synapse creatures (and maybe Genestealers) could capture objectives.

Frag mines should be str 6

Not a chance in hell. Maybe give them back the big blast or something. That'd be okay, but jacking up the strength is not the answer. Biovores were ludicrously overpowered in 3rd edition with the S5 AP4 big blast. Let's not revisit that.

4. Warriors - need a viable anti tank option.

Urgh, seriously. I'd be okay with it if they just made venom cannons able to penetrate, but I agree that they should let you equip them on however many warriors you want. Still, that won't really solve Tyranids' vehicle woes. A bunch of S7 weapons does not a tank solution make. It'd be something against the ludicrous mech trend of late, I guess, but IG would still shred us like nobody's business.

Broodlord - needs fleet

A-freaking-men.

The Horror: Same as current but units in 12' lose fearless, stubborn and ATSKNF.

That makes a lot of sense to me.

Shadow in the Warp: Same as current but you suffer Perils

Ba-roken. That'd screw psykers like nobody's business.

Catalyst: Gives a brood within 24' +1 Attack for this turn

Hmmm...that sounds reasonable, but part of me thinks it'd be a bit overpowered for huge broods and for broods of Genestealers. Maybe make it only apply to gaunts?

9. Tyrant Guard can also buy extended carapace.

That'd be sweet, but it'd probably be a little too powerful unless it was expensive.

D. Hormagaunts should just be gaunts with scything talons and leaping. No need for them to have a separate entry, just like we dont have a separate entry for Termagaunts - they are just fleshborer gaunts.

I disagree. I like having the Hormagaunt as a package deal kind of thing, sort of like Gargoyles are. It lets you take a reasonably souped-up gaunt for a discount of a couple points.

Walking Hive Tyrant - Ripper Swarms can capture objectives

Meh. I like the synapse idea way better. Rippers are just big mouths, basically. I can't see them being very tactically inclined.

Broodlord - Gives Genestealers Scuttlers as standard and his unit can come from the opponent's table edge (like the Ork Kommado special character)
Warriors - Gives gaunts scuttlers as standard (for no extra points so can still take WON)

I really, really like these ideas fluff-wise, but functionally, I think having an army of outflanking WoN gaunts would be too powerful. Maybe not. I dunno. It would almost certainly be too abusable on the Broodlord's end, though. A Stealershock army would save hundreds of points (assuming current costs) by taking a Broodlord.

Other than that, I really like those ideas. I'm especially fond of the Lictor being able to select its victims and only attacking the stuff it charges a la 3rd edition. That would be way cool, and it would jive with what they're supposed to be for.

Seeing that the Trygon plastic model has been verified, and an assumed release date paired with the codex what to the other Nid players think of how that should be handled? I've read two of the trygon book entries one had Mass points, one didn't. Also one entry would let you deep strike into assault or assault from DS and others wouldn't. If i had to pick one i'd take the assault over the mass points.

One thing i think would be nice is if they added a " 0-1 Gargantuan Creature" You could take a trygon, either type of Hierodule( or make the hierodule modular like the Fex) or the Dominatrix(?). The Hierodules could use up a heavy slot while the trygon could be a fast option with the Dominatrix being a fourth HQ choice.

One way to "fix" or modify Synapse that i thought would be more flavorful would be to give each unit a different USR or bonus while in synapse and different IB when out of range. e.g. Genestealer - Synapse: counts as having Frag Grenades IB: none; Gaunt - Synapse: +1ws IB: Rage

Also i did some MathHammer and thought of this: 6 points Hormagaunts, 12 points Genestealers.
for the same points spent you get the same result vs the GW posterchild, MEQ.
12 Stealers - 144 pts
On the charge: 36 attacks vs WS 4 (3+) - 24 Hits
4S vs 4T (4+) - 12 wounds, 8 wounds + 4 rends

24 Hormagaunts - 144 pts
on the charge: 72 attacks vs WS 4 (4+) - 36 hits
3S vs 4T (5+) - 12 wounds

An alternative a friend suggested was making stealers a 18 point model but with flesh hooks and a 4+ save base model.

Those things aside i think the ideas i had were already brought up, brood lord needs fleet, etc.

Why not give them 9" move/assault range? This will re-establish 'Nids as being a Fast army, and allow Carnifex's to actually hunt tanks.

My main hope is that they do something to make "balanced" Tyranid lists competitive or at least worth playing. It's a shame to me that the only way you have a prayer of even securing a close loss against some of the harder lists is to field all the monstrous creatures you can get your hands on and spam Genestealers with whatever points you have left with some minimal Gaunt units for objectives. I want to be able to use Lictors. I want to use Rippers. I want Biovores. I want effective Gaunts, Warriors, and Raveners.

I'm not a power gamer, by any means, but it would be really nice to have an army that's, you know, good at something. Tyranids aren't fast any more, they can't shoot worth a crap (though the 2 twin-linked devourers on a Hive Tyrant and barbed stranglers on Carnifexes are, admittedly, very nice), and their bread-and-butter units - Warriors and Gaunts - are horrendously overpriced. Tyranids aren't really even all that wonderful at CC as a whole, despite Genestealers being wicked awesome...if they don't get blasted to hell before getting into combat.

Basically, I'm saying that I hope the new codex at least gives us some options. Even though everyone else runs mechanized armies, they still have a good deal of flexibility as far as what's going into their transports and how they support their transports. We've got...well, we have 2 Tyrants with Guard, 6 Carnifexes, and some Genestealers with a little deathspitter Warrior action. Always. And they're all armed almost identically in every army. That's a crime for what, on paper, is the most customizable force in the game. Too many of the units are either lacking that special something (Raveners need to be able to assault off of Deep Strike, damn it) or too expensive (Lictors, Rippers, Gaunts, Biovores, etc.) to allow for any variation in competitive armies. It's too bad, really. Here's hoping GW helps us out a little.

Damn, I have just read through the whole thread and am now read to say something to the tyranids myself. Sadly, as the codex is due to be out in February if you believe in the rumors suggested changes here won't have an impact.

Anyhow:

Synapse should boost the tyranids, no synapse should make them easy prey.

Units in synapse range gain:
- catalyst
- fearless
- furious charge

Units outside of synapse:
- Rage

Especially the low gaunts should be lead around by bait units if they are outside synapse. Also fewer units should be immune to the effects of synapse.
- so no hive node
- carnifex isn't fearless
- Tyranids aren't automatically immune to instant death

Guns
- Venom cannon: lose auto-glance, AP-
- Would be cool if the tyranid guns would be a stun-tool for vehicles and infantry alike to make the assault easier.
- Some weapons would still deal damage outright if you want your tranid army that way

Tyrant
- can use warp blast with BS 4

Broodlord
- gains fleet

Tyranid warriors
- get T5

Lictors
- during the shooting phase, you can place the lictor into a piece of terrain. act as normal after that
- lose fearless, gains stubborn
- gains fleet

Genestealer
- lower by 2 points
- lose the option for feeder tendrils
- scuttlers = 6 points

Gaunts:
It should be standard on these guys to be without number. Also add the option to give them scything talons for a basic melee gaunt.
- 3 points base.
- Scything talons +2 points
- WoN +2 Points
- 6+ save (anything more is too good and expensive)
- Ld lowered to 3

Hormagaunts:
Reduce to 7 points. If you make them too cheap, there's nothing that can stop these guys before tying up the enemy.
- WoN +2 points
- LD lowered to 3

Ravener
- I upped to 6
- attack after deep strike

Gargoyles
- lower b 2 points
- gain scout

Zoanthrope
- increases BS to 4
- reduces WS to 2
- lose the 0-1 restriction

Biovores
- I would love a bigger model similar to the carnifex (plastic update sprue)
- fire big templates

Carnifex
- can be given fleet for 10 points if no extended carapace is chosen
- lose fearless
- guns more expensive, so you cannot build those nasty elite carnifexes

That are my suggestions so far. + The Trygon of course.

Greets
Schepp himself

Why is it that if the codex is due out in February, that ideas here wont affect it? I thought that ideas and changes could still be implemented as late as Octobober or thereabouts.

IMO.. Synapse should be Fearless within 12 inches, LD 8 outside of 12 and Ld 5 without synapse on the board.. I also think it's pretty stupid to force guants to test at the start of every turn.. If they are going to keep that in the dex, they need to lower their cost.

I'd also say that synapse should act the same way as a beacon does for space marines.

The broodlord needs fleet.

Warriors should be T5 or 4+ sv base.

Fearless is a liability on Gaunts thanks to No Retreat. Synapse should grant you the option of auto-passing or auto-failing any test.

I also like the notion of synapse having multiple options (say the aforementioned morale option, an offensive option and a defensive option), but only one per unit per turn. Think of them as orders like in BFG. It'd be very fluffy and add some new tactical options.

I would personally like to see Raveners lok more like this:
Ravener: 27 points each
WS:4 BS:2 S:4 T:4 W:2 I:4 A:2 Ld:10 Sv:5+
All models in the brood must be either Voracious OR Vile.
Voracious
+1 WS, +1 I, Leaping, May Assault after deepstrike
V


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crap. Didn't completely work. Stupid phone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK. Trying this for the third time (on my PC now)
Raveners: 27 points each
WS:4 BS:2 S:4 T:4 W:2 I:4 A:2 Ld:10 Sv:5+
Brood Size: 3 to 9 models
All models in the Brood must be either Voracious OR Vile
Voracious:
+1 WS, +1 I, Leaping, May Assault the turn the unit Deepstrikes
Vile:
+1 BS, +1 S, Toxic Miasma, May only shoot the turn the unit Deepstrikes

Each model in the unit may be armed with 2 Weapon Symbiotes from the following lists. If two of the same ranged weapon are taken on one model, that weapon counts as Twin-Linked. If two different ranged weapons are taken on the same model, only one weapon may be fired per turn. One in every three Raveners may be armed with one Heavy Weapon Symbiote.
Weapon Symbiotes:
Scything Talons - 4 pts/pair
Rending Claws - 6 pts/pair
Spinefists - 6 pts/pair
Deathspitter - 6 pts
Devourer - 10 pts

Heavy Weapon Symbiotes: 1 in every 3 models may be armed with one of the following
Barbed Strangler - 10/15*
Venom Cannon - 15/20*
*The second number is the points cost for Vile Raveners

Special Rules: Burrowing
Burrowing - Raveners may enter play via the Deepstrike rules, even in mission when such rules are not present. In addition, instead of moving during their movement phase, the Brood may be placed back into reserves and enter via normal Deepstrike rules in subsequent turns.
Thoughts?

They'd be pretty horribly overcosted at those points values. I mean, you're neutering them pretty badly, and they'd still cost 35 points. You could get a comparable warrior (minus the deep strike, obviously) for ~20 points. Definitely a no-go on that. Personally, I think they should be left alone and be able to assault off of Deep Strike. That alone would fix them just fine. I like the idea of being able to Deep Strike them again, but it's not necessary. However, that rule would essentially give you a teleporting unit late in the game which is probably not the most balanced thing ever.

I don't see tyranids as that broken army in 5th edition. Only thing that needs changing in my opinion is..

1. Hormagants are overpriced maybe just 8 points
2. Lictor shouldn't need dangerous terrain or mishaps when entering the play
3. Raveners could be allowed to assault when getting in play with deepstrike
4. Sporemines giving out killpoints is just wrong. They're ammunition, not units.

Even without the "fixing" i still like tyranids and can win games with them without "nidzilla" list.

what I would love to see is a few more options for unit selection. I know there are a zillion ways to make each of the little crawlies but i would like a few different units so there are some actual choices rather than tyrant, warriors, gaunts, fex, thrope and the rare choice of some of the other units.

some more combat weapons for a combat based army having only about 5 weapons is not enough. Some form of unit with power weapon would be nice rather than having a monstrous creature or a broodlord.

and finally a way to reasonably kill a tank at range would be nice.

Another thought... If you take a Flyrant or Winged Warriors as HQ, you could take Gargoyles as Troops. I'd also like to see Rippers acting like Grots, clearing mines and making difficult terrain easier to traverse.

I've been playing bugs for a long time. I remember Spike Rifles slightly inconveniencing Blood Angels in games at my friend's parent's basement. These little voracious eating machines have always held my heart. So, of course, I want them to be kick-arse. But they shouldn't be over-balanced. Their background indicates high mutability. The new codicies have that whole HQ determines what the army comp will be like. Nidzilla is a viable option, but so should be an insane host of little crawlies. Tanks can become a problem with the little hoards; that doesn't mean I want rending Gaunts or melta weapons, but some sort of options like there was in 2nd ed. where there are cumulative bonuses for multiple hits would be nice. I dunno; I'm just rambling now.

I agree with everything said about reliable armour killing. Ultimately there is nothing in the codex that works reliably against them. And of course, we have no range to go with the paltry venom cannons.

There only seem to be a few lists that work nowadays. I've been running a stealer shock list that's been brutally effective. It consists of dakka warriors, dakka tyrant, stealers, boomfexes, lictors (to make sure they come in), and spinegaunts.

Then there's the absolute horde list, the zilla list, and maybe one or two variations that work. Basically none of them involve hormagaunts, warrior variants, venom cannons, biovores, raveners, or gargoyles.

That's a lot of the range that's useless because of (in large part) fearless saves. How good are 12 point hormagaunts that deal 6 wounds, take 9 in return, and then lose 3 more guys?

I just want to see point reductions across the board for the metal guys. If we're more than likely going to lose combat by a few wounds give us more guys... Thus making the whole army more fluffy.

Aight, my wish list:

1) Cheaper Lictors. 80 points for what it does is simply stupid. Or, give it a better armor save or something! hell, bump its toughness if you wanna keep it at a 5+ save -_-

2) Biovores. They need more types of mines.

3) Broodlord. Give him the ability to outflank as well. The fact he can't basically means he has to infiltrate, which is lame.

4) Zoanthropes. BOOST THEIR BS! Or give em twin linked or something... I would take a 10 point boost if I could finally hit something!

5) Hormagaunts and Gargoyles. Reduce their cost or make them better. As they are they are a waste of space.

6) Warriors. They seriously need a 4+ normal, 3+ with carapace save. The fact that 10 marines rapid firing into some warriors will almost always kill em is kinda sad for an "elite"

7) venom cannon. Either lower its strength and allow it to pen always, or give us a new gun that can pen.

Now reading thru the posts I gotta few things to add; they will never boost Gaunts/Horms armory saves. They are mean't to be like orks, disposible in large numbers, but so many of them they are hard to deal with. Synapse is a rule I really like, its honestly not a hindrance. Look at all the cool stuff it gives us! fearless, eternal warrior, thats pretty damn rad if you ask me.

I'll definitely agree with your #1, #5, #7.

I really don't like only having a 4+ save for warriors, but I think it would become unbalanced if they got a 3+. They've immune to instant death and have 2 wounds, which means the biggest weapons anyone can wield still can't kill them in one shot. I think that's makes only having a 4+ acceptable. Like you said, you just need to play them properly and keep them out of massed fire range.

keep them out of massed fire range

How exactly had you planned on doing that, again? Deathspitters only have a 24" range. I think a 3+ on warriors would be a bit much, but I can definitely see T5 and a 4+ save as standard (or super cheap upgrade - 1-2 points or something).

Broodlord. Give him the ability to outflank as well. The fact he can't basically means he has to infiltrate, which is lame.

Can't infiltrators outflank?

Either lower its strength and allow it to pen always

Lower its strength? Even for an army that's supposed to be weaker in the ranged department, a penetrating venom cannon isn't exactly a tank busting superstar.

or give us a new gun that can pen.

Yes, please.

Synapse is a rule I really like, its honestly not a hindrance. Look at all the cool stuff it gives us! fearless, eternal warrior, thats pretty damn rad if you ask me.

Synapse crushes gaunts in close combat. After they've charged, they're toast. Without weight of numbers giving you a giant advantage (lots more attacks due to tons of models charging), the other side is going to rock you. Gaunts are fragile and expendable, and being Fearless makes them doubly so in close quarters. Superficially, it doesn't seem like it matters so much that you lose 5 Gaunts if you kill 3 marines and still have 25 Gaunts in that unit rarin' to go. That's a pretty good round of combat, right? Unfortunately, you're going to lose another 5 Gaunts to being Fearless, and it'll just get worse after that. Awesome, right? Fearless also means that you can NEVER have anything else join combat with your Gaunts to support them if you don't want it taking a whole bunch of saves every turn for no real reason. Fearless is crap. It hamstrings Gaunt swarms like crazy, as if they weren't bad enough in 5th ed without that rule.

keep them out of massed fire range

How exactly had you planned on doing that, again? Deathspitters only have a 24" range. I think a 3+ on warriors would be a bit much, but I can definitely see T5 and a 4+ save as standard (or super cheap upgrade - 1-2 points or something).

Warriors having a 3+ isn't overpowered in the least (thats with enhanced carapace, I'm saying give em 4+ base). They still die really easy, but a round of bolter fire won't take em out as easily. They cost twice as much as a marine, I hate losing em to stupid junk.


Broodlord. Give him the ability to outflank as well. The fact he can't basically means he has to infiltrate, which is lame.

Can't infiltrators outflank?

I don't think infiltrate gives outflanking, I'll have to look it up.

Either lower its strength and allow it to pen always

Lower its strength? Even for an army that's supposed to be weaker in the ranged department, a penetrating venom cannon isn't exactly a tank busting superstar.

Venom Cannon isn't a superstar. Yeah, you need 4's to hit. But if it could pen itself it relegates Zoanthropes to near uselessness. I mean, if I could shoot 2 venom cannon shots a turn at str 10 and pen, why use a zoan who has to test, then hit, then roll to see if he does anything? We basically have a useless railgun atm thats only good at sitting around shaking landraiders or attempting to one shot HQ's

or give us a new gun that can pen.

Yes, please.

Synapse is a rule I really like, its honestly not a hindrance. Look at all the cool stuff it gives us! fearless, eternal warrior, thats pretty damn rad if you ask me.

Synapse crushes gaunts in close combat. After they've charged, they're toast. Without weight of numbers giving you a giant advantage (lots more attacks due to tons of models charging), the other side is going to rock you. Gaunts are fragile and expendable, and being Fearless makes them doubly so in close quarters. Superficially, it doesn't seem like it matters so much that you lose 5 Gaunts if you kill 3 marines and still have 25 Gaunts in that unit rarin' to go. That's a pretty good round of combat, right? Unfortunately, you're going to lose another 5 Gaunts to being Fearless, and it'll just get worse after that. Awesome, right? Fearless also means that you can NEVER have anything else join combat with your Gaunts to support them if you don't want it taking a whole bunch of saves every turn for no real reason. Fearless is crap. It hamstrings Gaunt swarms like crazy, as if they weren't bad enough in 5th ed without that rule.

Raveners are already beasts. Why add leaping when they already have it.

Raveners would be best off with lowering their cost several points and removing the weapon option (which isn't even represented on the models anyhow).

Venom Cannon isn't a superstar. Yeah, you need 4's to hit. But if it could pen itself it relegates Zoanthropes to near uselessness.

Zoanthropes are nearly useless anyway, so with a bit of a buff (better range, no required psychic test, no multiple KP's, etc.), they'd be a viable option since Carnifexes with venom cannons cost at least twice as much as Zoanthropes do.

I honestly just use my gaunts to tie up large things in CC (it takes C'thans 4-5 turns to knock out 32 gaunts typically, depending on his rolls) or just sit around on points.

Why wouldn't your opponent just misdirect and leave your Gaunts behind? I can see using them to tie up Wraithlords and Avatars and other Tyranid MC's, but that's where their usefulness as a stall stops. 160 points for a unit that might slow something down for 4 rounds of combat is not a good deal at all. That's another unit of Genestealers or another Carnifex - you know, something that might actually kill things. Gaunts are useful in small units with WoN for taking objectives, but that's pretty much it.

I REALLY like this idea. Having mutible Raveners fits fluff, makes sense, and makes them decent.

Raveners are already kinda mutable, but it might be nice to be able to change a few of their stats. Doing away with the shooting weapons would make me very happy. However, if they fix the crazy 2 of the same weapon=twin linked thing, it would be a lot of fun to DS a bunch of Raveners with 2 devourers each. Still, I'd settle for them keeping the same rules (except a decrease in Rending Claws' cost) and adding the ability to assault off DS. That would make them just fine or maybe even good.

I think that while running a Broodlord, one squad of genestealers should be allowed to come in on a side of the PLAYERS choosing.

Sounds like a party to me. It also makes a lot of sense, fluff-wise.

also: make the wings give the option to deepstrike

I really enjoyed the extreme, although kinda useless, mutability of 3rd ed. They got carried away with the whole "choose how many species you get = # of biomorphs per squad... etc" silliness. Make them simple upgrades. Make Wings turn you into Fast Attack. Get rid of the separate Gargoyle and make them gaunts + wings, yet able to take some nifty symbiote weapons. I want my brood beasts and Gun-beasts back (especially because I still have those models!). simplify, but bring back the mutability. Even poor choices (ie. tournament competitive) are fun for flavor and fluff!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also. I was flipping through the 2nd ed codex today. I forgot about the strangleweb gun. Man that thing was annoying... to my friend's Blood Angels.

I'd be fine if they left Gargs the same price but gave them their flamers back.

Seriously, though, I like having the pre-configured Gaunts. It's a nice excuse to have a slightly decked out Gaunt at a discounted price.

Infiltrators can outflank which does make Broodlords badass about 66% of the time when he comes in with his retinue of rending goodness on the right side.

A transport of some vein would be freaking awesome some special rules have it open topped and like a rhino equivalant cause it would be nice to get a stealer squad across the feild without getting shot up, I'm thinking like a beetle with a concave shell and maybe TL fleshborer on the front or a flamer weapon.

a bit more deep striking would be good because for an army that is supposed to rain down from space every single time they engage the enemy there isnt much raining.

a different mechanic to go along with flesh hooks than being able to scale impassible vertical terrain it is useless in all my experience i think something like a ranged mechanic might be cool and it would be more fluffy.

Lacross wrote:also: make the wings give the option to deepstrike

i agree

A minor point increase for 'zillas, and a points drop for gaunts of any kind. keep them fragile, and give them all without number.

Without number should be altered to let them come back to the board at any time after they've been destroyed, but only once, and wherever there's synapse.

I hope this will end point farming and keep the gaunts useful, while making zillas less of the primary force, and more of an auxiliary to the hordes.

In real terms, price drop on the gaunts so they can sell more.

I don't know much about 'nids, but that's my 2 cents.


Also, take a mini-nerf bat to shooting (except flamer and anti-tank style weapons) and give all non MCs fleet.

most people forget that WON is a "may" choice so there is no issue with points farming.
you could just send them in next turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
as much as i like Hormagaunts with WON....it seems OP


Automatically Appended Next Post:
whaat? nidz don't have flamers