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@ Allen Stroud: don't forget the difference between the UK and the US in terms of hobbies, either. LARPing is pretty far from the "mainstream" here, whereas it might be more commonly accepted over the pond. I don't know, but as I made clear, most of us are speaking in generalities about our own experiences, which is usually limited to a single city. Every group and community and nation is different. As for the airsoft thing, remember that in the US a love for guns and shooting things makes one extra manly and awesome.

As for my definition, well, I suppose it's a pejorative, but this is a forum dedicated to miniature wargaming, geekiness isn't just a possibility, it's basically mandatory. My point was that an outside party would judge the hobby on those two grounds. I could give a damn how silly I look or how geeky the people around me are. However, if a group of "mainstream" people were to view an activity, they would probably use my two factors. If it's two smelly huge guys in anime T-shirts, a skinny guy with acne and a trench coat, etc., they're more likely to think "hey, it's a bunch of dorks doing something, I bet they're doing something dorky." Likewise, if you're dressing up in costumes and pretending to cast spells, that's sort of inherently silly looking. I think who is participating will always outweigh the second aspect, which is why such hobbies as Hacky-Sack get to be mocked to thoroughly, because while it's relatively athletic based it's played exclusively by hippies.

I apologize for us piling on your hobby, and I guess it's not really fair, but for most of us LARPers really are the stereotype. It's not fair, but it's true. Beyond that, however, I think is the normal human instinct to rank ones self. "I may be weird, but at least I'm not as weird as those people." That's totally unfair and I think some healthy self reflection would be in order. On the other hand, as you so kindly pointed out, if it's a good game, why do you care that a bunch of dorks online think it's geeky? I kid, I kid.

Longest first post EVER! lol

I'm surprised if you genuinely think that LRP would preclude this. Any hobby that encourages people to get out and meet other people means you have an active social life. I met my partner at an LRP event. In the UK, LRP has a large proportion of female participants. Could you give an example of how specifically LRP would stop people meeting members of the opposite sex?

Apparently LARPing is much different in the UK. Over here (from what I've seen) it's much sillier (although your videos still scream silly) and mostly attractive-girl-free. Sure you can put a mediocre girl in a costume and she becomes "hot" but out of the cosplay/corset she's still trying way too hard to be Lady Death or something...

ITT: Cognitive dissonance.

Reading this thread while eating cheetos just feels right...except I don't have cheetos. I wonder if people who claim "active social life" with these hobbies mean socially interesting/cool or if they really mean "talks about warhams/d&d/larping all the time but hey it's with like-minded people IRL so it's cool."

www.hackandslash.co.uk

My mate Kev's LARPing Website. We do it with a good bit more style in the UK! He now supplies weapons to various Martial Arts Schools around Britain.

Another UK Larper droped in for a chat.

stonefox wrote:I wonder if people who claim "active social life" with these hobbies mean socially interesting/cool or if they really mean "talks about warhams/d&d/larping all the time but hey it's with like-minded people IRL so it's cool."

Well i claim an active social life, and dont forget intersting is all a mater of opinion and well cool.... Apart from larping, i fence (well yer its kind of related) but i also go out night clubbing, regularly play pool with old uni friends, go on weekends away with friends from variouse places (old high school, uni, work etc) where we usally end up at pubs drinking or end up somewhere having a laugh. So yer I have an interesting and active social life, between that work and larp this year im strugalling for find free weekends to catch up on sleep.

As for the whole women thing depending on the group you LARP with the ratio is about 1/3+ with more women attending fest type LARPs, but at the end of the day most people choose their hoby due to what they enjoy doing not their chance of pulling a fit bird most people go out on the town for that sort of thing, although granted if you find somone doing the same hoby as you do your more likley to have somthing in common.

Allen Stroud wrote:Good Morning all. First time poster, slightly disturbed at what I've read. Apologies for the length of this reply.

Augustus wrote:Theres something wrong with pretending to be something real, like say, a soldier. Versus pretending to be something fake, like say, a fairy princess.

Ask a real soldier what they think about airsoft.

Well I have real soldier friends who play all types of games from this list and they thiink they are great. The only thing the majority hate is guard duty in a game - smacks too much of being on the job...

Too true mate!

IT is truly amazing the things we can have SERIOUS discussions on... and I love it. I think it really all just boils down to how proud you are. Pride can make a person do or don't do a lot of things. I take pride in the work I put into my miniatures, but i know guys who do these other hobbies and hide it. I have no problem telling people I would like to dress up like a 14th century Man-at-Arms and beat someone with a wooden stick, but theres someone out there who wouldn't. I personally don't see any problem with people being open and not really caring too much about what others think. Look at Fantasy baseball and football. I have several family and friends that play that game and they still look at me funny. People just look too much at the stereotypes, and popular culture doesn't help the situation too much (when is the last time you saw a nerd take center stage and not look like a complete feth-for-brains, and people will always assume thats what we are. And that makes some gamers, larpers, reenactors etc. feel they need to hide what they like to do in their free time and that makes me feel a little sad, because those guys out there beating each other with sticks, rolling dice, writing down stats; are doctors, lawyers, firemen (fantasy football, they'll figure it out soon enough) . I like to think that even the biggest baddest hombre out there has a small furry kitten at home named Mr. Snuffalufugus.

Nurgleboy77 wrote:Apparently LARPing is much different in the UK. Over here (from what I've seen) it's much sillier (although your videos still scream silly) and mostly attractive-girl-free. Sure you can put a mediocre girl in a costume and she becomes "hot" but out of the cosplay/corset she's still trying way too hard to be Lady Death or something...

And again, based on my experiences of actually LARPing, from what I've seen the US LARP scene isn't much different from what the UK LRPers are describing. Yes, some of the videos look silly, but I've yet to see anything that actually makes US LARPs "sillier" than their UK counterparts. Perhaps you just encountered a bad group, but when you're talking about groups like SOLAR and Phoenix/Nexus with 15-20 years of history behind them, they're definitely not any sillier than UK versions.

Don't mock Pokemon until you have the facts:



Actually, ym buddy and I play Pokemon cards all the time. It's actually one of the better games out there. I'm looking at you Magic: the Gathering.

thehod wrote:

that pic is too cool to be nerdy

Thanks for the replies folks. In the UK LRP scene we have an old term for long posters - "Scipionic". Refers to a player who had a tendency to the same, I'll try to kerb my verbalese where possible...

Polonius wrote:@ Allen Stroud: don't forget the difference between the UK and the US in terms of hobbies, either. LARPing is pretty far from the "mainstream" here, whereas it might be more commonly accepted over the pond. I don't know, but as I made clear, most of us are speaking in generalities about our own experiences, which is usually limited to a single city. Every group and community and nation is different. As for the airsoft thing, remember that in the US a love for guns and shooting things makes one extra manly and awesome.

I completely accept everyone's experience is different. That's part of my point really. How can anyone determine a hierarchy when those experiences are different? The central argument of this thread is anti difference - it suggests a united hierachy as a forum is a international community in itself. Much as there was an original intention of humour, you have to ask, why are we knocking hobbies? Surely if they relate to our hobbies, they will encourage more participation in all things fantasy, science fiction, etc...

As for the gun argument I could counter that citing the example of American football verses Rugby (), but that undermines the central point above.

Polonius wrote:
As for my definition, well, I suppose it's a pejorative, but this is a forum dedicated to miniature wargaming, geekiness isn't just a possibility, it's basically mandatory.

Which I agree with, however judging by your comments I doubt you'd defend the Lrpers are paedophiles point made on this thread. I'll quite happily accept the label of geek and indeed I'm proud of my hobbies. But I'm pretty insulted by the latter allusion.

Polonius wrote:My point was that an outside party would judge the hobby on those two grounds. I could give a damn how silly I look or how geeky the people around me are.

Sorry do you mean couldn't?

Polonius wrote:However, if a group of "mainstream" people were to view an activity, they would probably use my two factors. If it's two smelly huge guys in anime T-shirts, a skinny guy with acne and a trench coat, etc., they're more likely to think "hey, it's a bunch of dorks doing something, I bet they're doing something dorky." Likewise, if you're dressing up in costumes and pretending to cast spells, that's sort of inherently silly looking. I think who is participating will always outweigh the second aspect, which is why such hobbies as Hacky-Sack get to be mocked to thoroughly, because while it's relatively athletic based it's played exclusively by hippies.

Hacky Sack? I see your argument here, but surely that indicates that actually its not the activity its the value judgment people make about whether they conform to the group participating in the hobby? Dick Hebdidge makes this point in "Subcultures: The Meaning of Style", arguing that Subcultures remain vibrant and interesting so long as they stay outside the mainstream. They offer a coded language of acceptance and belonging. So, people who see something they identify with they move towards it and reject everything outside of what they detemine as their place in that subculture. The fact that a person can't see the fun in something or doesn't want to be involved in that particularly activity actually says more about them, than the people that do enjoy that activity.

Polonius wrote: I apologize for us piling on your hobby, and I guess it's not really fair, but for most of us LARPers really are the stereotype. It's not fair, but it's true. Beyond that, however, I think is the normal human instinct to rank ones self. "I may be weird, but at least I'm not as weird as those people." That's totally unfair and I think some healthy self reflection would be in order. On the other hand, as you so kindly pointed out, if it's a good game, why do you care that a bunch of dorks online think it's geeky? I kid, I kid.

The reason I care is that I'm interested as to why people perceive things as you say. Speaking as an event organiser, I want more players at LRP events. I think LRP is fun and the more people who get involved in it and see that fun, the better events can be.

Nurgleboy77 wrote: Apparently LARPing is much different in the UK. Over here (from what I've seen) it's much sillier (although your videos still scream silly) and mostly attractive-girl-free. Sure you can put a mediocre girl in a costume and she becomes "hot" but out of the cosplay/corset she's still trying way too hard to be Lady Death or something.

Thanks, I acknowledged the hobby is silly quite early in my post. Noam Chomsky said "Sport is the opiate of the people" referring to how sports can reinforce passive audience behaviour preventing people from being politically active. Pretty much all hobbies are silly diversions, but they can be fun for people who enjoy them. I don't knock other people's fun. Is the socially acceptable level of a hobby determined by the acttractiveness of its participants? If so, why weren't more people lifeguards in the 90s? Or vampire slayers just after the millenium? Wasn't your original point this?

Nurgleboy77 wrote: I decided I might actually want to be inside a woman at some point and passed.

Now you want it to be an attractive woman on your terms? Jeez your a hard audience... and cheetos as well? lol.

Another LRPer, from mainland Europe. Ik think I have the final argument to establish the geek hierarchy.

But first, let me thank you for what is, for the most part, a fun thread. The geek-chart and Fear of Girls are brilliant. I realize there`s a lot of self-reflection (hey, I`ve seen wargamers!) I also realize this is kind of a ‘guy`s forum’ and as such there`s little you can say that I would take personally. It`s the things that are being said about the women in our hobby that urge me to protest.
So, I protest.

Right, enough of that, on to the final argument:

Like I said, I`ve seen wargamers and their stuff, at games conventions, to be exact. Sitting - if things get really exciting they stand up - at those big tables with scenery, advancing armies of hundreds or even thousands of painstakingly painted miniatures towards ‘the enemy’.
That is so neat. I mean, apart from the respect I owe the wargaming hobby due to the fact that LRP is an indirect - through RPG - descendant of it, the skill, the craft, the patience... it`s awesome! So, what could LRP possibly field to top that?
Well, we`ve got armies of thousands upon thousands of real life people fighting it out across real landscape - you might actually be in the Teutoburger Wald when you storm those Romans - and you know what? They all painted themselves!
Of course, it`s going to take more than a croupier`s rake and a ruler to advance them on the enemy. You need things like leadership qualities and command structure, you know, peoples skills. (To be fair, it doesn`t always work.) Not to mention the fact that staging a LRP event in a field is a little trickier than staging a wargaming convention in a fully facillitated building with its own management staff.
So there!

As for the classic compensation remark about our big weapons, you know the saying about glass houses? Building up huge armies who unquestioningly obey your every command?

Alright. Fair enough. A debate then.

LARP, or live action role playing, surely has the ability to be a clean and wholesome pastime that rewards players for staying in character and solving complex problems. Mostly, however, these players find it more entertaining to chase eachother with foam replicas of weapons and beat each other senseless with them. Thus my statement referring to violent tendencies. (If you argue that airsoft is just as violent... we already knew that. The military is violent, but as a profession not as a pastime.) If you add into the equation the fact that many boys do LARP-ing for the prospect of 'getting laid' (as said elsewhere in this thread), I think that would definitely be indicative of sexual desperation or repression.

If you want a contrast and comparison to wargaming: then I think wargaming is the more 'normal' of the two hobbies. I actually spend less time playing than I do other aspects of the hobby such as painting, assembling, and reading. These are acceptable pastimes to me, because I am married with children and my pastime is designed to fill my time with peace and quiet. If I want social interaction, I have no problem going down to the Hangar and buying my buds a beer.

I think LARP play indicates other things about a person such as immaturity, and the desire to escape from his or her reality and enter into this fantasy land where magic is real (even though their 'spells' are clearly beanbags) and fierce knights and damsels still roam the land... That is weird no matter which way you look at it. I may play a game of 40k, but that doesn't mean I appreciate the fluff or backdrop behind it at all. I just think it is a more intellectually challenging game than Monopoly. I have no desire enact scenes from the story, or pretend anything. I am not the kind of player that goes "pew! pewpew!" whenever a model makes an attack.

LARP players are merely people playing pretend. I think that kind of past-time is best left to my children, who are infinitely better at it than some violent high school children with social problems.

There is a hobby which consists of stacking and unstacking plastic cups as quickly as possible.

Oh no.... so your saying my toddler has picked up that hobby? What do I do?

You have to smother him. It's the only way.

I think LARP play indicates other things about a person such as immaturity, and the desire to escape from his or her reality and enter into this fantasy land where magic is real (even though their 'spells' are clearly beanbags) and fierce knights and damsels still roam the land... That is weird no matter which way you look at it. I may play a game of 40k, but that doesn't mean I appreciate the fluff or backdrop behind it at all. I just think it is a more intellectually challenging game than Monopoly. I have no desire enact scenes from the story, or pretend anything. I am not the kind of player that goes "pew! pewpew!" whenever a model makes an attack.

Pretty much this. I find you guys who go pew! pew! unironically during games to be weird. And then there are the guys who have like 500 pages of background info for their armies. Warhams. Warhams never changes.

Let's define what we really mean when we say "cool" within the context of a thread like this.
Something that would not "repulse" an attractive woman, with large breasts and ruin your chances of getting "laid".
That seems to be the elephant in the room.

I think the general hierarchy descends like this :

Video Games
Comics
Miniature Wargames
Rpg's
Magic
Pokemon
LARP

Based solely on the cool factor? LARP easily commands the bottom of the chain.

My explanation being : video games haven't been "uncool" since the late 80's. Since then, various shooters, final fantasy games/blockbusters and all sorts of other changes in (my, I'm only intimate with American culture) the general culture have made video games as commonplace as say ... going into a field to play a game of pickup football.

Except people would rather sit around, and shoot each other wearing headsets on now.

Comic books also haven't had that kind of stigma. Now that I'm thinking about it, it seems like dorks played video games and read comics around the same time. Was there some sort of nerd-chic revolution while I wasn't paying attention?

Miniatures, asides from a few giggles I've noticed from uninitiated onlookers is a relatively cool hobby. I'm not just defending them because I play Warhammer, or because I'm posting on a message board devoted to toy soldiers, but I've had more conversations with attractive girls (the sole judge of cool apparently...) about my mini's or the hobby than I can remember with my other less cool pursuits.

The stigma behind RPG's (I'm assuming the poll means Palladium, White Wolf, TSR(D&D hasbro whatever) doesn't seem to exist anymore because I can remember the hobby being more visible when I was a kid. I don't hear anything about church moms wanting to put a stop to your weekly make-believe session because you are invoking the DEVIL when you cast a 2nd level spell at a goblin. I wouldn't necessarily say telling the general populace (attractive girls with phat asses)that you play would get much of a response outside of older generations who actually remember when D&D was extremely visible and was the whipping boy back in their school days.

-----------------------This is where the post starts to get negative----------------------------------

Magic, is just sad. I've seen the players, I was one when I was much younger and they don't take showers, are power gaming control freaks who are just miserable people. I don't see smiles during a game of magic unless it's between two close friends outside of a tournament. I don't think magic contributes anything to society besides keeping losers occupied on a friday night so I don't have to run into them when I do go out.

Pokemon could be below LARP on the totem, but there are a few reasons it's not.
1) You don't wear a fake suit of chain mail
2) You don't swing a fake broadsword
3) You don't have to call out your power word when making an attack (ironic, because you do in the show!)
4) LIGHTNING BOLT
5) DEATH

etc.

And on to LARP.

I just think it's sad, and blows the cover of what a lot of nerd sub/cultures are already doing in different forms. (Pretty much this whole list).

Everyone knows what LARP'ing is, and everyone loves to make fun of it. I've been accused of being one when when looking through a DMG or something before. Pretending and awkwardness are the two chief features of any good larp.

And I realize a lot of supporters (particularly euro ones) will defend their hobby and try to explain why it....etc but I just don't buy it. I think it's actually worse for an overweight 40 year old to be wearing a kilt and holding a foam battle axe than it is for the same gentleman to be holding a bag of cheetos and pouring over tables in the PHB.

The one thing I will give the hobby : is that I've seen some spanish ones and those guys really put a lot of effort into their costumes and setups. I've been impressed by one youtube of LARP before and it felt like a war epic.

Kilkrazy wrote:There is a hobby which consists of stacking and unstacking plastic cups as quickly as possible.

I believe that there is also a worldwide competition for untangling LAN cables as quickly as possible.... And some people believe that the entire cosmos was created by an invisible being in 7 days.....

For what it's worth, I am a qualified Physicist who works as a chef/high school teacher and makes a bit of money from painting comissions. My friends (and Pupils) call me a spod; i call them a bunch of dog-touchers. Point being, Nerd is just a label. Frankly, i could give two tugs of a dead dogs c**k if you are a LRP'er, as long as you have a bit of an open mind, are willing to learn, and aren't a judgemental F'er!

stonefox wrote:

I think LARP play indicates other things about a person such as immaturity, and the desire to escape from his or her reality and enter into this fantasy land where magic is real (even though their 'spells' are clearly beanbags) and fierce knights and damsels still roam the land... That is weird no matter which way you look at it. I may play a game of 40k, but that doesn't mean I appreciate the fluff or backdrop behind it at all. I just think it is a more intellectually challenging game than Monopoly. I have no desire enact scenes from the story, or pretend anything. I am not the kind of player that goes "pew! pewpew!" whenever a model makes an attack.

Pretty much this. I find you guys who go pew! pew! unironically during games to be weird. And then there are the guys who have like 500 pages of background info for their armies. Warhams. Warhams never changes.

And then there are the GOON rejects who think they have this edgy/outsider/ironic thing down and talk about groups of gamers by labeling them as "you guys". I find them to be much more obnoxious than the typical gamer because the typical gamer doesn't have their sense of humor programmed by a website and won't half quote fallout in an attempt to amuse themselves, but remain esoteric.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:LARP, or live action role playing, surely has the ability to be a clean and wholesome pastime that rewards players for staying in character and solving complex problems. Mostly, however, these players find it more entertaining to chase eachother with foam replicas of weapons and beat each other senseless with them. Thus my statement referring to violent tendencies. (If you argue that airsoft is just as violent... we already knew that. The military is violent, but as a profession not as a pastime.) If you add into the equation the fact that many boys do LARP-ing for the prospect of 'getting laid' (as said elsewhere in this thread), I think that would definitely be indicative of sexual desperation or repression.

Okay can you give some examples of people beating each other senseless? Most LRP games have safety rules as I mentioned early and systems of hit points etc... so this doesn't happen. People who elect to beat each other up use all sorts of things to do this in all walks of life - I can't control those and nor can you. In LRP, the choice to deploy violence is a calculated one with social consequences and conscience. Far better than the roll of a dice or the click of a mouse. The age range at games in the UK is wide, but the average tends to be in the twenties and thirties depending on the game you go to.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:If you want a contrast and comparison to wargaming: then I think wargaming is the more 'normal' of the two hobbies. I actually spend less time playing than I do other aspects of the hobby such as painting, assembling, and reading. These are acceptable pastimes to me, because I am married with children and my pastime is designed to fill my time with peace and quiet. If I want social interaction, I have no problem going down to the Hangar and buying my buds a beer.

Okay "normal" is a subjective term and to be honest you view of it is not really very useful in defining a general understanding beyond your own experience without some kind of statistical evidence. Judging by your sig, I have hundreds more painted minatures than you do, but I'm unlikely to assert I know better about the qualities associated with painting and building minatures. Some of my friends who have families like to pack the kids off to the grandparents and spend a weekend away in costume, or in other games, take the kids with them to go enjoy their own adventures. But all of these are anecdotal evidence.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
I think LARP play indicates other things about a person such as immaturity, and the desire to escape from his or her reality and enter into this fantasy land where magic is real (even though their 'spells' are clearly beanbags) and fierce knights and damsels still roam the land... That is weird no matter which way you look at it. I may play a game of 40k, but that doesn't mean I appreciate the fluff or backdrop behind it at all. I just think it is a more intellectually challenging game than Monopoly. I have no desire enact scenes from the story, or pretend anything. I am not the kind of player that goes "pew! pewpew!" whenever a model makes an attack.

Okay this is the part of your post I take most issue with. Labelling someone else's past time as immature says more about how you define yourself than anything else. I mentioned at the top, I lecture in Science Fiction and Fantasy, mostly in writing. The imagination is essential to being a writer and I've spent years trying to stop students from following the bible and putting away childish things. If we defined everything in this manner, the world would be a poorer place in terms of art and literature. Also, your argument contradicts the psychological ego state theories. Basically the assertion of these views (in books like I'm OK you're OK or Games People Play) is that by denying our childish tendencies we can't be truly happy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_analysis In fact the denial of the needs of the child state is seen as a psychopathic tendency.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
LARP players are merely people playing pretend.

Yes they are, but then so are wargames.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:I think that kind of past-time is best left to my children, who are infinitely better at it than some violent high school children with social problems.

I don't know your children so I can't comment. I would say any people with behavioural problems need support and help with those problems. Pre-disposition to hurting people is pre-disposition to hurting people. LRP doesn't countenance this in real life, neither does wargaming, so I don't really see your point.

Defiler wrote:Let's define what we really mean when we say "cool" within the context of a thread like this.
Something that would not "repulse" an attractive woman, with large breasts and ruin your chances of getting "laid".
That seems to be the elephant in the room.

No. That's what you define as cool. FoxPhoenix's argument is exactly the opposite. His point is that this kind of definition highlights sexually repressed tendencies amongst LRPers. I guess by your post you aren't a LRPer, so thank you for illustrating his point in its application outside of our hobby. This point renders your ranking of a hierarchy meaningless as its once again, your subjective viewpoint. Perhaps if you had some gender demographics of each of the categories your conclusion might hold more weight, but you don't, so the ranking you offer is meaningless beyond your own experience.

Don't get me wrong, I'm interested in your view and in your anecdotes, but the priorities of games across the world are totally different. The Scandanavians have a completely different set of ideas about LRP to the British. I'm sure some games in America are rubbish and some are good. Goes the same for wargames. One of my friends recently wrote a comparative article of French LRP to British LRP. I edited it, but I wouldnt dream of changing his conclusions - he knew the strengths of the different games based on experience, which I dont have. Its like boardgames. My experience indicates that German boardgames usually have the best rules, but that doesn't mean they are all good or that all good boardgames have to come from Germany.

stonefox wrote:I wonder if people who claim "active social life" with these hobbies mean socially interesting/cool or if they really mean "talks about warhams/d&d/larping all the time but hey it's with like-minded people IRL so it's cool."

When I say I have an active social life, it's refering to my posts on DakkaDakka.

I don't know about the rest of you guys.

Damn, I think I must have some kind of edgy/outsider/ironic thing going on, AND here I am, nearly 40 years old and still a geek...

Thing is, I'm quite proud of my geek nature. As the UK's "The Independent" newspaper put it recently:

"D&D, in the popular imagination, is for geeks, the nerds, the unpopular kids at school, the ones whose mothers fed them in their bedrooms, otherwise they wouldn't eat: losers, fit only to be sneered at by the cool kids.

"But the geeks are now running the world, while the cool kids are sitting in vast fluorescent hangars in post-industrial hardship zones, calling you on behalf of Capital One in connection with your account; or wondering if you'd like fries with that."

I really, really don't mind if some wargamers think that LRPers are -- you know -- too geeky for them. Personally, I love playing 40K. I played it this afternoon, with my son -- and as it so often does, it provided epic, glorious entertainment (we've left the game set up halfway through, in the loft, at a great cliffhanger moment -- I just charged Belial and a Terminator Close Combat unit at his Warboss & 10 Ork Nobs, leaving only Belial and the Warboss alive, on the top floor of a ruined building, ready for a round of single combat, their armies waging war all around the outside...). It's great if that's what I want, and I only have 3 or 4 hours.

If I have 3 or 4 days, though -- I go LRPing. I can get the same glorious moments. Yes, they're escapist -- what, exactly, is wrong with that? I don't have any money problems, & my life is largely sorted, & very happy, but I still love 3 or 4 days of running round in the woods, hitting my mates with pretend swords, & getting drunk. Sure, I could hit the local pub -- but why should I want to, when my friends & loved ones are off in a field somewhere? Why should I want to, when I never laugh so hard or so often as I do in my weekends LRPing in a field?

As for who's geekier than who... well, on one level, who cares? But my wife, who is a damn sexy gothy lady even in her mid-40s, will do LRP occasionally, if persuaded, but even she thinks that playing with those little soldiers is for boys, and geeky ones at that. I took her to Games Day a few years back, when I was working for Hogshead Publishing (we found it REALLY helped our sales to have a few busty women on the stall... it was like those teenage wargamers had never spoken to women before... just sayin') and she was WAY more annoyed & confused by the level of pure wall-of-geek incomprehensible jargon spoken by 90% of the attendees (even the staff) than she's ever been at any LRP event or socialising with any LRPers.

Just data points, like. I don't care; they're hugely fun hobbies, and anyone who sneers at one or the other 'cos it's too geeky is probably missing out, AND is heavily in denial.

Oh, and as for beating each other senseless... I don't mind doing that, occasionally, in the right LRP event, but 99% of LRP events are staggeringly safe, so mostly I save the beating-senseless fun for judo or Thai boxing. I love games and competition of pretty much all kinds..

J.Black wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:There is a hobby which consists of stacking and unstacking plastic cups as quickly as possible.

I believe that there is also a worldwide competition for untangling LAN cables as quickly as possible.... And some people believe that the entire cosmos was created by an invisible being in 7 days.....

For what it's worth, I am a qualified Physicist who works as a chef/high school teacher and makes a bit of money from painting comissions. My friends (and Pupils) call me a spod; i call them a bunch of dog-touchers. Point being, Nerd is just a label. Frankly, i could give two tugs of a dead dogs c**k if you are a LRP'er, as long as you have a bit of an open mind, are willing to learn, and aren't a judgemental F'er!

I like your attitude.

LARP started when I was at university in the early 80s. Some of my friends from the wargames and RPG club joined it, which I suppose was quite natural since it is an extension of the RPGs and Re-enactment they were already doing.

Personally I was not the slightest bit interested. I don't remember thinking it was cool or not, I just resented their very large grant from the Students' Union.

On the whole LARP looks like a combination of RPG and amateur dramatics. I expect there are people who think AmDram is uncool. It's not Rock N Roll, which is where the basic concept of cool has come since the 1960s.

Defiler wrote:

stonefox wrote:

I think LARP play indicates other things about a person such as immaturity, and the desire to escape from his or her reality and enter into this fantasy land where magic is real (even though their 'spells' are clearly beanbags) and fierce knights and damsels still roam the land... That is weird no matter which way you look at it. I may play a game of 40k, but that doesn't mean I appreciate the fluff or backdrop behind it at all. I just think it is a more intellectually challenging game than Monopoly. I have no desire enact scenes from the story, or pretend anything. I am not the kind of player that goes "pew! pewpew!" whenever a model makes an attack.

Pretty much this. I find you guys who go pew! pew! unironically during games to be weird. And then there are the guys who have like 500 pages of background info for their armies. Warhams. Warhams never changes.

And then there are the GOON rejects who think they have this edgy/outsider/ironic thing down and talk about groups of gamers by labeling them as "you guys". I find them to be much more obnoxious than the typical gamer because the typical gamer doesn't have their sense of humor programmed by a website and won't half quote fallout in an attempt to amuse themselves, but remain esoteric.

I'm a p bad poster everywhere. Congrats on realizing this. Or does this hit too close to home?

Orkeosaurus wrote:When I say I have an active social life, it's refering to my posts on DakkaDakka.

I don't know about the rest of you guys.

Good stuff, man. Online interaction is still social interaction.

LARPing is a little bit creepy, but I can see why people would enjoy it.

Also, why no war reenactment on the list? I mean, the Perry twins did it....

ungulateman

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:LARP players are merely people playing pretend.

The very essence of playing games is playing pretend.

Allen Stroud wrote:

No. That's what you define as cool. FoxPhoenix's argument is exactly the opposite. His point is that this kind of definition highlights sexually repressed tendencies amongst LRPers. I guess by your post you aren't a LRPer, so thank you for illustrating his point in its application outside of our hobby. This point renders your ranking of a hierarchy meaningless as its once again, your subjective viewpoint. Perhaps if you had some gender demographics of each of the categories your conclusion might hold more weight, but you don't, so the ranking you offer is meaningless beyond your own experience.

Well, isn't that what a thread like this is about? Opinions based on personal experience?

Does anyone really have charts and data to support something as intangible as this?

Don't get me wrong, I'm interested in your view and in your anecdotes

I'm not sure you are. You just, in a very intolerant manner dismissed my opinion because it doesn't view LARP'ing in a positive light.

I'm a p bad poster everywhere. Congrats on realizing this. Or does this hit too close to home?

Not really. It just gets old when the same drones, post the same things over and over. I could grab any goon with Warhammer experience, and change their places with you and the comments would be identical.

hay guys whats going on in this p rad cool stuff.

Also : sup 2001

Defiler wrote:Well, isn't that what a thread like this is about? Opinions based on personal experience?

I thought it was about discussing things. That's what a discussion forum is usually about.

Defiler wrote:Does anyone really have charts and data to support something as intangible as this?

Stats on gender attendance? Yeah I have some, thats because I run events. If you like I'll post a ratio of male and female attendees at my events tomorrow. I expect people who run wargaming tournaments can give an idea of the same. I wouldn't describe these as intangibles.

Defiler wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I'm interested in your view and in your anecdotes

I'm not sure you are. You just, in a very intolerant manner dismissed my opinion because it doesn't view LARP'ing in a positive light.

Actually I didn't. I dismissed the conclusion you drew from your anecdotal evidence as being anything but your conclusion. As I mentioned earlier I'm interested in how this kind of conclusion is arrived at because I want to find ways to challenge it. What you did is wrote a nicely assertive and intelligent post with a good articulate turn of phrase based on no data evidence at all. You made a lot of generalised points without giving any room for argument. The first thing I always do when approaching an internet discussion is to acknowledge I'm going to learn something and that I could be wrong, so the next time you make those assertions with some evidence to back up what you've said I'll quite happily acknowledge that you've convinced me (if you do).