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Humans are not inherently logical Luna... by any group test that we can accomplish.

4-Chan on the whole could be considered logical, but comparing some of it's users to a logical person makes me think you have never been in a mosh pit before.

DUCK AND WEAVE LUNA!!!

Manchu wrote:Anonymous as a pseudo-personality is kind of noble in a thoughtless teenage way. It has its own "white knight" side.

You mean like this kind of "white knight"???

Agree with Wrexasaur, partly. Logic is merely one instrument that humans have at their disposal when choosing how to act. But I partly agree with Luna, too, in that almost any behavior can be said to follow some sort of logic.

We dont have to agree with something to find it logical.

Aslong as we can figure out why it happens , and see a pattern out of the behavior , i would count that as logical behavior. (unless im mistaken the term again -_-)

Which is also why i seem to have patience and leniency some trolls on dakka.

4chan suffers from the same flaws inherent in any un-moderated conversation. Primarily an extremely high signal to noise ratio, and the absence of any control on hostility. Its like Lord of the Flies updated for cyberspace.

It also isn't particularly unique. There are other places in the depths of the internet that exhibit many of the same properties. Look up the "Atheism vs. Christianity" google group if you want to see what a lack of accountability can do to otherwise well developed minds.

I am officially giving my second pair of "Sunglasses of Optimism" (TM) on the interwebz to Manchu the Bright-Eyed warrior of the north.

Use them wisely Manchu, they will serve you well .

. . . updating my profile accordingly.

Also, I don't think 4chan suffers from any flaws. It does what it's supposed to according to those who use it (I don't). It's mostly stream of consciousness and not intended for discussion.

Stream of consciousness, now your talking a language I can understand.

I see the comparison and it speaks truly, the sunglasses are working already! .

Ah, good. I was hoping I had them on the right way round. Ahem: so with the stream of consciousness terminology--just imagine if we were both giving voice to whatever popped into our heads but only heard each other when we happened to say the same thing. That's kind of like 4chan. If enough people happen to say the same thing at the same time, a meme is born. This is, I'd guess, a pretty good simplified model of pop culture.

@Luna: The problem with that sort of explanation is that people use logic in order to make decisions and use logic to explain decisions--and yet the reasoning is different. So logic is a process of reasoning but it has little to do with the content of a decision/behavior.

Manchu wrote:...I'd guess, a pretty good simplified model of pop culture.

Too true, and for those who go do be aware of it's main purpose, which is to have none and to stay on top.

Like watching a pack of dogs fighting over a bone I would assume, the group mentality produces perspective-based "facts" about a certain segment of the Human race (teenagers?) and furthermore possibly applicable in the same way to the entire group in a rather loose way.

Manchu wrote:@Luna: The problem with that sort of explanation is that people use logic in order to make decisions and use logic to explain decisions--and yet the reasoning is different. So logic is a process of reasoning but it has little to do with the content of a decision/behavior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic

Wiki wrote:"The formal systematic study of the principles of valid inference and correct reasoning".

This definition (which is correct) points directly at a group (preferably the WHOLE group of which the parts are affiiated, at least to the degree that you can break down) and asks you what you believe and why. Not why you think you and your buddies are right, but how it effect the whole question at hand.

Through this strict separation of fact and "pseudo-fact" we can determine where we our foundation as a species lays in a few ways. Our responses here on DakkaDakka to 4-chan are just as important if not more important (due to being relatively impartial in our group) than any of the anon-cats dwelling in the shadows of 4-chan.

I think it's rather more about language than anything else. If I had to guess, loneliness drives /b/. Not some pathetic, neck-bearded loneliness but the basic human urge for meaningful interaction. So why does no meaningful interaction occur there, you ask? I think it's because channers get stuck on language. They're constantly trying to figure out how to communicate things to one another using a vocabulary of constantly updated pop culture images that cross-reference their own better-established usages. It's like a meta-meta-language. They're NOT talking about the thing that a reference refers to but about the reference that refers to (and modifies) some other reference that no longer refers to the thing that it originally did because that thing has itself been forgotten by most users.

Manchu wrote:It's like a meta-meta-language.

Thus the big fish eats the small fish. It is like being attacked by a Megalodon while swimming in a futuristic wading pool. To most that have X-perience with the interwebz I can tell you IT IS MESSED UP!!! Why?...Why?...Why?...

Wow, Wrex. You're . . . high. You're high right now, aren't you?

I am???



Visualize with your noggin' mate, I speak with relevance to the subject matter. Clarification can be provided if needed.

4-chan is epic to put it simply.

J/K. That futuristic wading pool bit sounded like Hunter Thompson. I was getting my flyswatter out in case some bats started harassing us.

I try and keep open to channel the lost unto their true destination. Hunter will be missed by many, and I would hope that his actions could provide people with a bit of insight into the mistakes that he made, and the actions he took to try and change the world for the greater good.

R.I.P. Hunter, you will be missed.

/thread

@manchu: It IS a cesspool. A cesspool of ideas. And not all of them nice. Some of them are great. But there is always that creepy, sick, twisted stuff JUST around the corner.

That describes culture at large just as well.

Now that's just mean. At least in culture at large, only the relatively nice ones are ALLOWED to sprout and develop, the really nasty stuff is shunned at mostly.

Manchu. Come on. Feaces-in-Face-Sex? PEDO bear?

Manchu wrote:That describes culture at large just as well.

Yep!

Just cultures masks their true nature quite well.

EF, as Luna is alluding to, 4chan is just a crack in the facade of the aspect of culture you're talking about. All that gross, violent, perverted stuff wasn't invented on 4chan. That's just where people openly (anonymously) talk about it and stop pretending that they don't know about it/aren't interested in it.

And why are they interested in it?
It certainly is a foul meeting-of-the-minds by anyones standard.
The average, decent person, certainly isn't that interested or depraved. (I hope)

I repeat.

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Manchu. Come on. Feaces-in-Face-Sex? PEDO bear?

I don't agree. The average, decent person is very interested in a lot of those things. Like what a dead (or mutilated) body looks like, for example. It's just natural curiosity. I can't explain everything you see on /b/. Some of it is just plain malicious. But malice, too, is a facet of human experience/expression.

I repeat:

All that gross, violent, perverted stuff wasn't invented on 4chan.

Emperors Faithful wrote:And why are they interested in it?
It certainly is a foul meeting-of-the-minds by anyones standard.
The average, decent person, certainly isn't that interested or depraved. (I hope)

Its the same type mentality as when you watch a horror movie and you peep through your fingers
or when you squint your eyes.

Or when you watch Saw 1,2,3,4,5,6?

Or as i always say , humans cant live without contrast.
Good and evil
Light and Shadow
Bitter and sweet
Life and death
pleasure and pain
burning and freezing

It goes on and on , why? because contrast stimulates our sense whether we like it or not. We are drawn to it like moths to flame , human we are

@Emperors Faithful (who is a young'n and should not be attending 4-chan.... ahem) .
The whole site is not that by any means, and if one were to condition a mind straight up Dune status, you would find use for 4-chan.

I can't imagine anything closer to playing Duke nuke em'. Drop em frag em, just take em down anyway you can, and make sure you interlace a profuse amount of demonic profanity to boot.

Wow... it is Duke nuke em.... with a lot more than just aliens, like stuff that is real.

Keep 4-chan open and their community has and will lock the really scummy people down. A purpose to this madness I tell you!!!.

What do you mean by lock them down?

I know it wasn't invented on 4chan. But it has been allowed to fester there.

...I'll confess something to you. This is relevant. I used to have...a problem. *hint hint*. A serious problem. I got over. I stopped completely. I didn't find religeon or anything. I just realised that I had gone in too deep. I...saw things. I'm not being melodramatic or anything. i saw these...stuff, and not only was it being presented, bold as brass, but people were cheering it on. I'm not going to repeat what I saw, but If I ever have children I will make SURE they never have to see that kinda stuff. It's sad enough they live in a world were something so...sick...even exists.

Research a bit and you will find that 4-chan has actively countered anything from terrorism to serious pervos with a frightening efficiency.

Granted most are false alarms, but the presence of a sincere community watch, if you may, does serve to counter the more stupid posters.

@Emperors Faithful


The relevance of this image is too prolific to actually detail. People have changed, but how much and in what way?

There's a lot of nasty things to see on the internet. And many, many people have seen them. We're all still here and the world's not going to end any time soon. If 4chan portends the end of civilization it is not because it encourages a deviant (a)morality. It's simply a reflection of its participants like the body is the sum of its members.

@Luna: Perhaps there always WILL be good and evil, light and shadow, but just becuase it is there, must we condone it? No. If anything we should fight all the harder to stop it's..spread. (Ironic coming from a Witch Hunter)

Perhaps it would be in vain. It's probaly impossible to rid the world of evil entirely. But it shows us as very poor characters if we don't TRY.