Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Deadshane1 wrote:Why do "Casual Gamers" enter threads that have titles like: "How to build the Hardest Marine Army and Win at Tournaments"

...and 'add' to the discussion by saying things like "you're a jerk if you build armies like this!"

Don't you know that the thread isnt for you in the first place? I don't recall ever feeling a need to enter threads entitled "How to build the fluffiest Ultramarine army ever!" (in fact I never go into them) and rail on about how your army lacks focus and will never win a 'Best General' award.

It's just confusing to me.

Maybe you should ask the individuals making those posts. They probably all have their own reasons for doing so, even if they’re just throwing in their two cents about something they see as wrong.

I suspect I’m what you would call a casual gamer because I avoid these types of threads. During the 3rd edition days, I was heavily into the tournament scene but then I found I really wasn’t having any fun. Players were just a bit too intense for something as goofy as pushing little army men around a table and making pew pew noises.

Currently, I play mostly among close friends in their homes while drinking beer or Tennessee Tea. We usually play a mixture or 4th/5th edition and commonly throw out rules we think are “lame”. I still sometimes go to local tournaments because I think it’s a great way to meet new players and possibly see unusual armys.

voidfiend wrote:I was heavily into the tournament scene but then I found I really wasn’t having any fun. Players were just a bit too intense for something as goofy as pushing little army men around a table and making pew pew noises.

Well put! Of course, being intense and creepy isn't restricted to people who play in tournaments. I'm sure the 'Fluff Nazis', 'Casual Gaming Mafia', 'Powergamers' and whatever the label is for extreme modellers/painters have their share of people I wouldn't want to have a drink with, just as I'm sure most of 'em are pretty much alright.

Currently, I play mostly among close friends in their homes while drinking beer or Tennessee Tea. We usually play a mixture or 4th/5th edition and commonly throw out rules we think are “lame”. I still sometimes go to local tournaments because I think it’s a great way to meet new players and possibly see unusual armys.

This pretty much describes how I play, too.

I like the tournament lists, I like reading about the combinations people have discovered and I love reading about the 'evolution' that goes on in tournaments, as certain lists gain popularity and the rest respond by adapting their lists to either entirely confront this or include things to protect against it (the mystics and inq for blocking daemon DS for example). The maximum bang for your buck lists and the thinking behind it make for good reading. I might incorporate some of it into my own lists.

I wouldn't show up to a mate's house with nob biker lists though since I wouldn't enjoy his discomfort and my mates usually takes a mix of troops, so I return the favour. I am still experimenting with the orks, so proxy is often employed and I incorporate some of what I've read.

Much of the misconception comes about from people reading lists here and then showing up to a game with a 'powerbuild' when the opponent was not clear this was going to happen and has instead turned up with his sum total of minis bought because he 'liked that tank best' etc. People then cry out that folks aren't playing in the spirit of the game when, if it's clear on both sides the objective is to build a winning army using everything at your disposal, then both sides are informed and in the clear.

Here's to the tourny players, enjoy your game, I'll enjoy mine and enjoy reading about yours or attending an event to watch the battles.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Alpharius wrote:So, discuss the points, and try (really!) to lay off the personal stuff.

But Rule #1 seems to override that.

Agree with someone, or encourage someone in a non-polite manner - get mod-slapped.
Belittle, bully, bait and put down someone with some erudite wordsmanship - get nothing.

I'm not saying it's a double standard, I'm saying it's a lack of standards.

You can't just look at someone who's fething swearing their mother fething head off like some sort of blood fething sailor and go "Be polite" when he's expressing joy over something, but when you get a long-winded carefully worded load of nonsense personal attack from a certain member, nothing happens because, oh, well, he's being polite - and as long as you're polite at Dakka, you can get away with fething anything.

Dear sir,

It has come to my attention that, it would seem, your levels of intelligence need to be called into question. Your posts that I have quoted above seem to indicate a high level of male cow excrement, and, indeed, it would serve you well to retract such comments and mend one's less-that-intelligent ways before one finds themselves injuring themselves during simple household tasks. I don't want to imply that you are unable to ascertain the difference between your elbow and your anal sphincter, but your recent comments have really brought this into question.

I will further submit that perhaps something in your childhood might have contributed to your sudden lapse in logic, or your increased need to insult (sometimes quite harshly) those you come into contact with. In pains me dearly to see the mentally handicapped parade themselves with no shame before us when we are trying to have such a vibrant and high-brow conversation, so I beseech you good sir stop talking, lest my other learned posters be brought down to the level at which you have debased yourself already.

Again, please stop acting as if one were copulating with their own mother,

Yours Truly,
His Lordship, Commissar Calgar

Look how polite he's being there Alpha! Polite, but not very nice...

Hrumph.

I will admit that "Be Polite" and "Rule #1" shout outs are Mod Short Hand for "stop with the personal attacks".

But really, I think most people who find there way here are rather clever enough to work out what should and should not be said in a thread.

It really, really isn't that hard.

Alpharius wrote:So, discuss the points, and try (really!) to lay off the personal stuff.

[SNIP sound & fury]

Hrumph.

I will admit that "Be Polite" and "Rule #1" shout outs are Mod Short Hand for "stop with the personal attacks".

But really, I think most people who find there way here are rather clever enough to work out what should and should not be said in a thread.

It really, really isn't that hard.

And yet Dakka Mods seem to tolerate digs at people's intelligence and "/facepalm" and those sorts of antics?

Now, I stopped that stuff because I was trying to follow Rule 1.

If policy has changed, and this kind of thing is acceptable, I'm more than happy to start slapping back.

What do you suggest?

Why does it bother the OP so much that this happens? Can't he skim past the post, or click "Ignore User" and never be bothered again?

CT GAMER wrote:

skyth wrote:From what I've seen the Casual Gamer Mafia does plenty of bullying on other forums and it's not discouraged (In fact, at least one it's encouraged by the mods)

that doesn't excuse anything that happens here. The dakka mods are responsible for their own house irregardless of what happens elsewhere...

Dakka Mods have a laissez faire attitude towards posting in general. Abide by the primary Rules of Dakka and we generally will leave the posts alone. Having said that I am both a banker (which means I can be influenced) and a lawyer (which means I can be influenced easily). As such tangible gratitude, especially in the form of chocolate in either the cake frosting or milk chocolate delivery system, will get you far.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:The mods do seem more interested in posting Japanese school girl meme pictures (where did that come from?) than actually moderating in these circumstances. Maybe they think that it is lessening tension, by making everyone laugh, but it's not moderating. Moderating is more than waggling your index finger at a group of people and going 'Naughty naughty'.

The type of bullying we get from the Casual Gaming Mafia (I'm so glad everyone likes that name! ) needs to have something done about it, but, because it's ever so 'polite', nothing will ever be done.

*transmission interrupted*

But we all know folks, that only Tournament Gamers swear. Only Tournament Gamers bully people with their power builds and their anti-Semitic rants. They're the ones filling the army lists and tactics threads with WAAC power-gaming super-builds that are designed to win games - the nerve of those racist degenerates!!!

This message brought to you by the Dakka Casual Gaming Mafia - 'Winning is for losers!'

You're free to leave at any point HBMC. No is holding a gun to your head to stay here.

Although some moderation decisions here annoy me, (mostly the swearing ban and the necro policy) I don't see much point in giving out. It doesn't detract from my enjoyment much, and the site is generally a great resource.

It's easy to suss out which posters are gonna be eejits and either ignore them or watch the antics with attached amusement. Either way, it's best to relax about it all.
(What is with those image macros though?)

Da Boss wrote:(What is with those image macros though?)

To be perfectly honest, IMO those are some of the best things on Dakka - they never fail to perk me up in an otherwise dry / boring / frustrating day.

As always, if anyone feels that the Mods aren't up to snuff or have a complaint about anything really, they are free to contact Yakface himself...

He plays Morgoth to our Sauron afterall...

Casual Gamers tend to have the notion that they have the "Moral High Ground", and that all tournament gamers are "WAAC Power Gamers"

The problem is that both groups don't understand the other, so in a lame attempt to actually bring a resolution to the argument that DOESN'T involve getting this thread locked, I'll try to bridge the gap.

To casual gamers: Yes, it's in essence, toy soldiers. But, it's also a game, and there are many people who want to win this game. So they'll take a dead 'ard list. Just because you took a "Fluffy" list, doesn't mean it's unfair. You take the units you want to take, and whether they suck (I.E. Possessed) Or their use is questionable (Tankbustas), you take what you take.

To Tournament Gamers: Yes, they field "Fluffy" Armies. Let's face it, 40k has a great storyline (I think, at least). And some people are so enthralled by a good story that they field an army based upon a facet of that story (Iyanden Eldar) or a unit that they just like the concept of (Flash Gitz). Does this make them less competitive? Yes, it does. But, sometimes, when there isn't a prize or your rep at stake, why not play, just for the sake of playing?

@Alpharius:

Mods have a thankless job, and I have no real complaints - I just want to make sure I'm more-or-less on the same page and toeing (or backing away from) the same line in the sand as everyone else.

Deadshane1 wrote:Why do "Casual Gamers" enter threads that have titles like: "How to build the Hardest Marine Army and Win at Tournaments
...and 'add' to the discussion by saying things like "you're a jerk if you build armies like this!"

Doesn't seem to happen very often...is this really an issue? Or is this just one person desperately trying to make himself feel better.

I'm seeing the opposite of HMBC's casual gamer mafia. I'm seeing a group of players not interested in politeness, not interested in civility, but interested in suppressing all outspoken voices while they strangle the life of others.

(I know this is OT, but I'm generally pretty happy with the moderation here. And modding is a thankless task, so thank you.)

The casual gamer/tournament gamer divide is mostly in people's heads I think. Remember, wherever you go, the only thing you never have to pack is a gobshite.

Frazzled wrote:You're free to leave at any point HBMC. No is holding a gun to your head to stay here.

Is that the official Dakka Dakka Staff way of saying "If you don't like GW's rules/prices, then stop playing/buying!!"? 'Cause that's what it sounds like...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RustyKnight wrote:I'm seeing the opposite of HMBC's casual gamer mafia. I'm seeing a group of players not interested in politeness, not interested in civility, but interested in suppressing all outspoken voices while they strangle the life of others.

Let me just set the record straight and say that the 'Dakka Casual Gamer Mafia' is an utterly imaginary conscruct created for no other reason than to poke fun at such extremism. It stems from what I like to call 'Exaggeration Theatre'. I don’t actually believe that there are people here like that, even if there are a few (certain) members who are a few fries short of a happy meal on both ‘sides’ of this so-called debate.

Generally speaking I hate the labels that are given out to various parts of this board, the ‘tournament gamers’ or the ‘casual gamers’, which is why I refuse to label myself as either. What I find though is that there is often a subset of certain groups that start believe that not only are they more ‘right’ in the way they act, but that their way is the morally correct way to act. My insane babbling ‘Casual Gaming Mafia’ rants represent this, as well as being my attempts to entertain the masses of Dakka (something that people appear to like given the sheer number of sigs I seem to be appearing in lately…).

So they are over the top intentionally, no one should ever take them (or me, really) seriously, I hate this ‘us and them’ mentality that gets bred in places such as this and I hate fanaticism in all its forms distasteful, and as such will pick at it whenever it appears.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Frazzled wrote:You're free to leave at any point HBMC. No is holding a gun to your head to stay here.

Is that the official Dakka Dakka Staff way of saying "If you don't like GW's rules/prices, then stop playing/buying!!"? 'Cause that's what it sounds like...

No its my way of saying if you don't like the board and the modding, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. Clear enough?

Belittle, bully, bait and put down someone with some erudite wordsmanship - get nothing.

I'm not saying it's a double standard, I'm saying it's a lack of standards.

You can't just look at someone who's fething swearing their mother fething head off like some sort of blood fething sailor and go "Be polite" when he's expressing joy over something, but when you get a long-winded carefully worded load of nonsense personal attack from a certain member, nothing happens because, oh, well, he's being polite - and as long as you're polite at Dakka, you can get away with fething anything.

You complain about others making side attacks but you're the frigging prima donna of side attacks and could have, should have, been banned a long long time ago. You’ve been nursed along because your other posts are efficacious and your commentary is generally enjoyable, but that’s whats kept you here. I’ve intentionally backed off modding many, many of your posts for that reason-else you would have been GONE.

If you want to take this private and discuss the merits of whether you should remain a poster here, please fill free to do so and I’ll work up a frigging book about why you should be gone. And then you will be.

So you might want to drop it.

I seem to have touched a nerve here, so I will graciously back down and do as you have asked, letting this one drop.

Yes you did boyo, but cool now.

Good deal HBMC, Frazzled now returning to threat level: Cranky.

Frazzled (after he's calmed down with his morning coffee):

Damn Frazzled, do you have a subscription service for those sorts of pictures? "ModIcons.com" "TensionBreakers.org?"... something like that?

Wehrkind wrote:Damn Frazzled, do you have a subscription service for those sorts of pictures? "ModIcons.com" "TensionBreakers.org?"... something like that?

What, those are just home pics that the kids snap of me on occasion...

Sometimes this place makes me think there should be mods for the mods...

CT GAMER wrote:Sometimes this place makes me think there should be mods for the mods...

There is.
He who shall not be named mods the mods.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

Frazzled wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:Sometimes this place makes me think there should be mods for the mods...

There is.
He who shall not be named mods the mods.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

Based on what I've seen in this thread he must have a lot of vacation time.

Whatever. Don't waste your "if you don't like it GTFO" grandstanding. I'm off to the P&M part of the forum.

Thanks for voicing your concern. Moderators have reviewed this thread. If you have issues with poster behavior at any other point, please be sure to hit the Alert Mod button. If you have issues with moderator performance, please be sure to advise Yakface.

11 posts.

We'll let that one go then.

Everyone back to the actual topic please.

Since nobody else is going to say anything, I'm going to point out that HBMC has some pretty good points that might be a little uncomfortable to hear.

First off, let me reiterate that I think the MOD team does a great job. If anything, they use too light a touch on posters whose behavior is consistently obnoxious, but that's just my opinion.

That said, you guys can't have it both ways. Part of the inevitable consequence of light policing is some vigilantism. You look at a guy like HBMC, he's not picking fights with noobs, he's generally responding to some pretty hostile/trollish behavior. It also tends to be funnier than most other flames here.

My point is that in any environment where there's a sort of unwritten rule about what is and isn't' allowed, you can't be too cranky at a single person for violating that taboo. You also can't be mad when that sort of stuff is pointed out.

And, am I the only one whose a little concerned that of all the posters on Dakka, the one that gets publicly called out for banning by a MOD is HMBC? It's obviously a personality conflict coupled with some tempers flaring, but that's just wrong.

(edited by Frazzled as it has been pointed out he was being overly harsh)
If you want to discuss the MODs, ok, but post it in a separate thread.

Gak, this continues to be way OT, TO THIS THREAD.

Polo I'll give you a PM reply presently.
EDIT: PM sent.

HBMC is not the only person treading the line. Nor is he the only one to whom mods have spoken, or called out publicly.

Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for voicing your concern. Moderators have reviewed this thread. If you have issues with poster behavior at any other point, please be sure to hit the Alert Mod button. If you have issues with moderator performance, please be sure to advise Yakface.

And what if you have issues with Yakface? Does it loop around and we inform the members, or is there a higher higher authority?

I'm not implying anything, I'm just curious.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
And what if you have issues with Yakface? Does it loop around and we inform the members, or is there a higher higher authority?

If you have a problem with Yakface, then you pray to God or write a letter to Santa, since I heard they all meet for a beer after 5 on a Friday.