Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Fafnir wrote:What's the most effective use of pathfinders? I absolutely love them in every way possible(except that way), and am wondering what the best use for them would be.

\

They are a good, durable troop unit.

If you have an objective in or near your deployment zone you set them down in the closest piece of terrain and you will not have to worry about it.

It frees up the rest of your army to move around and move out.

I was about to complain about how many points rangers cost, but then I realized that for just 5 points more they rend on a 5+. Oh the possibilities. I face a lot of Nidzilla, and I was looking at their chances of downing even 1 carnifex the whole game. Fortunately, they'll average a wound on a Godfex per turn. Which means I can afford to take two, and hopefully down one in two turns of shooting, leaving other stuff to focus on the non 2+ save, t7 monsters.

My favorite tactic is

Autarch w/ Laser Lance ; fusion gun ; mandiblaster, jetbike

Then joined to a 5 man Squad w/ Warlock w/ Enhance on jetbikes.

Yes, I do like having WS 7 and INI 7 w/ 6 attacks at STR6.

Striking scorpions vs howling banshees. Which is more useful.

Depends. Imagine that they're both guns.

Would you prefer...

S4 ap- with two shots...
or S3 ap2 with one shot?

answer that, and you know which unit to pick.

(it's also worth noting that scorpions have a 3+ save)

Hollismason wrote:My favorite tactic is

Autarch w/ Laser Lance ; fusion gun ; mandiblaster, jetbike

Then joined to a 5 man Squad w/ Warlock w/ Enhance on jetbikes.

Yes, I do like having WS 7 and INI 7 w/ 6 attacks at STR6.

Is there really a difference between ws7 and ws6...... enhance almost seems wasted on him...... the warlocks use it well though....



Automatically Appended Next Post:

fludit wrote:Striking scorpions vs howling banshees. Which is more useful.

depends on what you are fighting.....

Scorpions are great for orks/tyranids/guard

Banshees are great against Meq's


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orkestra wrote:Depends. Imagine that they're both guns.

Would you prefer...

S4 ap- with two shots...
or S3 ap2 with one shot?

answer that, and you know which unit to pick.

(it's also worth noting that scorpions have a 3+ save)

its closer to s4 ap- with 4 shots......5 on the charge

Other than a few models in the game I think Avatar; Daemon Prince a autarch will need a 3+ to hit.

Initiative goes before most things in the game as well. Excepting I think Dark Eldar lords on combat drugs and maybe Wyches.

fludit wrote:Striking scorpions vs howling banshees. Which is more useful.

(assuming all attacks are on the charge, the target is WS4, and no Farseer fooling around)

T3 with 2+ save
Banshee: .75 wounds
Scorpion: .222~ wounds

T3 with 3+ save
Banshee: .75 wounds
Scorpion: .444~ wounds

T3 with 4+ save
Banshee: .75 wounds
Scorpion: .666~ wounds

T3 with 5+ save
Banshee: .75 wounds
Scorpion: .888~ wounds

T3 with 6+ save
Banshee: .75 wounds
Scorpion: 1.11~ wounds

T4 with 2+ save
Banshee: .5 wounds
Scorpion: .166~ wounds

T4 with 3+ save
Banshee: .5 wounds
Scorpion: .333~ wounds

T4 with 4+ save
Banshee: .5 wounds
Scorpion: .5 wounds

T4 with 5+ save
Banshee: .5 wounds
Scorpion: .666~ wounds

T4 with 6+ save
Banshee: .5 wounds
Scorpion: .833~ wounds

T5 with 2+ save
Banshee: .25 wounds
Scorpion: .111~ wounds

T5 with 3+ save
Banshee: .25 wounds
Scorpion: .222~ wounds

T5 with 4+ save
Banshee: .25 wounds
Scorpion: .333~ wounds

T5 with 5+ save
Banshee: .25 wounds
Scorpion: .444~ wounds

T5 with 6+ save
Banshee: .25 wounds
Scorpion: .555~ wounds

That list should sum it up for you. Basic rule is, if the enemies you commonly face have 4+ or worse save, take Scorpions. If they have 3+ or better, take Banshees. If you have constant farseer support, take Banshees if your enemies have 4+ or better, and Scorpions if they have 5+ or worse, since Banshees get a lot more out of Doom then Scorpions.

While we were talking about Eldar, how are Warp Spiders in play? I don't quite understand what they're used for. Anti-Infantry, Anti-light tank? or just a big distraction? Been thinking about buying some mainly because them being able to Deep Strike. Or are Swooping hawks a better choice.

QuanQuan wrote:While we were talking about Eldar, how are Warp Spiders in play? I don't quite understand what they're used for. Anti-Infantry, Anti-light tank? or just a big distraction? Been thinking about buying some mainly because them being able to Deep Strike. Or are Swooping hawks a better choice.

I myself prefer Spiders.... they are a 3+ armor and much faster than Hawks....

the gun they have is 1/2 the range but twice the strength of the hawks gun......just as many shots and more likely to survive the return shots if they cant jump away far enough......and the Hit and run ability keeps them out of combat and on the board as opposed to skyleap that puts your hawks in reserve.

I like to deep strike them in behind vehicles, pop the rear armor, and then warp out to chase down priority targets (weapon teams, high toughness units, and HQs)

Orkestra wrote:I was about to complain about how many points rangers cost, but then I realized that for just 5 points more they rend on a 5+. Oh the possibilities. I face a lot of Nidzilla, and I was looking at their chances of downing even 1 carnifex the whole game. Fortunately, they'll average a wound on a Godfex per turn. Which means I can afford to take two, and hopefully down one in two turns of shooting, leaving other stuff to focus on the non 2+ save, t7 monsters.

Ha they're better then that. Roll to hit on a 5-6 that shot counts as AP1 .... Roll to wound any roll of 6 rends. Basically 2/9 chance to kill some one with out a save. (+Doom =3/9) (+Guide =8/27) (+doom & guide = 4/9) .... this of cause ignores people that still get an armour save but simply fail it.

Blackmoor wrote:There are many ways to win with Eldar.

Those who say that there are only a couple of ways to win are either not very good players, or lack imagination.

I have a very good record with Eldar and I have never used a Seer Council, Fire Dragons or Wave Serpents and for the most part use a guardian horde. .

REALLY? Never used Dragons, or Seer Council?

How do you kill vehicles?

Is you army list posted anywhere?

Elessar wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:There are many ways to win with Eldar.

Those who say that there are only a couple of ways to win are either not very good players, or lack imagination.

I have a very good record with Eldar and I have never used a Seer Council, Fire Dragons or Wave Serpents and for the most part use a guardian horde. .

REALLY? Never used Dragons, or Seer Council?

How do you kill vehicles?

Is you army list posted anywhere?

Killing vehicles is easy with dragons but they're not the only things ...
Wraith lords have guns and and are str 10 MC (10+2D6 ... any thing other then a monolith is toast)
Wraith Guard open all vehicles with odds of 2/9 (both Pen and Glance have the same odds)
Storm Guardians have Fusion guns
WarWalkers can have 2 guns + guide ...ouch
FirePrism, Falcon and Wave Serpent
...

Eldar was top tier in the 4th ed. but it is no longer.

The basic issues are

1. random game length,

2. low toughness and staying power of scoring units (up to Wraithguard), and

3. less reliability of skimmers.

Tri wrote:

Elessar wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:There are many ways to win with Eldar.

Those who say that there are only a couple of ways to win are either not very good players, or lack imagination.

I have a very good record with Eldar and I have never used a Seer Council, Fire Dragons or Wave Serpents and for the most part use a guardian horde. .

REALLY? Never used Dragons, or Seer Council?

How do you kill vehicles?

Is you army list posted anywhere?

Killing vehicles is easy with dragons but they're not the only things ...
Wraith lords have guns and and are str 10 MC (10+2D6 ... any thing other then a monolith is toast)
Wraith Guard open all vehicles with odds of 2/9 (both Pen and Glance have the same odds)
Storm Guardians have Fusion guns
WarWalkers can have 2 guns + guide ...ouch
FirePrism, Falcon and Wave Serpent
...

Wraithlords have 2 Attacks, and are too slow to even reach stuff to gakker it round the face.
Wraithguard are too slow, too short-ranged guns, and have virtually no chance of destroying vehicles, especially since they aren't AP1.
Storm Guardians may take 2 Fusion Guns (lol) but are BS3. So...one hit. Awesome.
War Walkers can indeed do it, but are fragile as hell.
Fire Prisms are not viable anti-tank. Good to have in pinch, but certainly not a real a-t weapon.
Falcons with a-t weapons are horribly expensive, and far from optimal.
Wave Serpents are good at a-t, but one shot each.

...At least you didn't mention Vypers, !

Eldar being top teir is certainly debatable; but bike council armies still do extremely well in tournements.

On the debate about the falcon, consider this:

Falcon with scatter laser, stones, holofield 175
Five man DA squad (scoring) 60


Prism with stones, holofield 160
Three man jetbikes (scoring) 66

The prism combo is cheaper, unless you want to upgrade the bikes a bit.
This is not considering the points for a farseer sitting in the falcon. A farseer (especially eldrad with his ability to use three powers a turn) will not be able to use his powers fully in the falcon as the falcon will likely be shaken at least part of the time. With a farseer that at least a 300 point unit sitting there, its going to draw fire.


The advantage that the prism combo has is two fold. The prism is a better shooter than the falcon, especially in complementing another prism. And the prism/ bike choice gives you far more flexibility.

If the falcon is destroyed or immobilized then the DA portion of the unit loses its value as well. (it is always POSSIBLE that the 5 man DA unit could slog over and claim an objective, but ....) If the prism is destroyed or has weapon destroyed then it loses its main function but the scoring portion of the unit is unaffected.

A small unit of jetbikes is one of my favorite tactics. Keep them in reserve, have them boost onto the table and hide until they have the oportunity to race over and grab an objective. Often I will use a slightly larger squad or at least include an embolden warlock. Either the bikes tend to be ignored, or occasionally they will draw far more attention then they deserve. If your opponent spends a lot of time and effort trying to hunt down a small bike squad then they are well worth taking.


Sliggoth

BUT, if the opponent shoots the Jetbikes, there are only 3, they're only T4, despite a 3+ save...one will surely die, and if one dies, they flee.

Also, saying a Prism is a better shot, especially when complementing, is simply false. I hate having to use 320 points of vehicles to fire a t-l Large Blast at a Tactical Squad. Even if I kill them, I've no chance of making it worthwhile.

That said, H-F are unnecessary on Prisms, and Stones instead of a S-Can on the Falcon is Fail.

@sliggoth: crew shaken results have no bearing on the ability of a farseer to use non-shooting powers.

Elessar ... Yes all of them have disadvantages. They are not dedicated anti tank units ... they can however destroy them. Also while you picking at units you're also being unfair to them.

Wraithlords have 2 Attacks, and are too slow to even reach stuff to gakker it round the face. Right so that Land raiders going to sit back and hide rather then transport the Terminators ...
Wraithguard are too slow, too short-ranged guns, and have virtually no chance of destroying vehicles, especially since they aren't AP1. They range 12" same as fire dragons Both need to be in a WS to hunt tanks. AP1 is nice but its not the be all and end all.
Storm Guardians may take 2 Fusion Guns (lol) but are BS3. So...one hit. Awesome. They are also dirt cheap.
War Walkers can indeed do it, but are fragile as hell. what AV10 is more fragile then T3?

We'll ignore the bit on the tanks as you've forgot these are fast skimmer tanks and can easily zoom round to target the weaker side and rear armour. No they're not brilliant but they're not terrible ether.

Storm guardians w/ 2 fusion guns: 96 points.

5 Fire dragons: 80 points.

Storm Guardians are not dirt cheap, especially considering their lack of durability and effectiveness.

Guardsmen are dirt cheap, Guardians can't even compare to them.

Now, you guys realize Yriel and Eldrad are from completely different craftworlds, right?
Not to mention the fact that Eldrad is dead. I just think it's more fun to create your own personalities for your own characters.

However, there's nothing saying you can't make "Smelldrad, the ultimate farseer of craftworld Pupesinmowth, and his space-pirate cohort Yurinal."

willydstyle wrote:However, there's nothing saying you can't make "Smelldrad, the ultimate farseer of craftworld Pupesinmowth, and his space-pirate cohort Yurinal."

I lol'd.

I like to think that Craftworlds just dress up Farseers like eldrad and put him out on the battlefield.

Hollismason wrote:I like to think that Craftworlds just dress up Farseers like eldrad and put him out on the battlefield.

Or maybe they just dress their farseers like Eldrad?

I like to think of it as a elaborate ritual

" Put on this helmet"

" Kay"

" Put on these gloves"

" Kay"

" Now put on these Hello Kitty Panties and Bra"

" What"

" Just do it the future has been forseen , you are now representative of eldrad and tapped into his psychic abilities"

" These panties are to small"

" He had a small frame, OFF TO BATTLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEE"

I just realized that my last post was 100% identical to what I quoted... gogo lackofsleep.

Plus, I'm pretty sure that Eldrad shops at Victoria's Secret. He has some dignity you know.

Discount Lingerie at Walmart.

Elessar wrote:

Tri wrote:

Elessar wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:There are many ways to win with Eldar.

Those who say that there are only a couple of ways to win are either not very good players, or lack imagination.

I have a very good record with Eldar and I have never used a Seer Council, Fire Dragons or Wave Serpents and for the most part use a guardian horde. .

REALLY? Never used Dragons, or Seer Council?

How do you kill vehicles?

Is you army list posted anywhere?

Killing vehicles is easy with dragons but they're not the only things ...
Wraith lords have guns and and are str 10 MC (10+2D6 ... any thing other then a monolith is toast)
Wraith Guard open all vehicles with odds of 2/9 (both Pen and Glance have the same odds)
Storm Guardians have Fusion guns
WarWalkers can have 2 guns + guide ...ouch
FirePrism, Falcon and Wave Serpent
...

Wraithlords have 2 Attacks, and are too slow to even reach stuff to gakker it round the face.
Wraithguard are too slow, too short-ranged guns, and have virtually no chance of destroying vehicles, especially since they aren't AP1.
Storm Guardians may take 2 Fusion Guns (lol) but are BS3. So...one hit. Awesome.
War Walkers can indeed do it, but are fragile as hell.
Fire Prisms are not viable anti-tank. Good to have in pinch, but certainly not a real a-t weapon.
Falcons with a-t weapons are horribly expensive, and far from optimal.
Wave Serpents are good at a-t, but one shot each.

...At least you didn't mention Vypers, !

I kill vehicles with all the ways that you did not mention...and Vypers!

I take a lot of guardians with Brightlances.
I take an Avatar of Kaine.
And of course, Vypers with brightlances.

And in an emergency, Harlequins with fusion pistols.

I kill vehicles with all the ways that you did not mention...and Vypers!

I take a lot of guardians with Brightlances.
I take an Avatar of Kaine.
And of course, Vypers with brightlances.

And in an emergency, Harlequins with fusion pistols.

Rather unusual in competitive play.