Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It is here on Dakka Mod.

Maybe when they made a codex in 2nd Ed they made it right? I do not flatten the spines at all. I actually make great considerations to slightly pinch the book beyond the spine when possible so that I do not have to actually bend the page at the spine or the spine at all.

That was weird, did someone's post just disappear?

I'd use a printed pdf for Forgeworld rules as they are about $100 a book here in the States and that's an insane price to pay for a rulebook. I don't so far, but I would.

I would also take a printed copy of the one page I need or so to take a baneblade, ally, or some other unit that isn't in my main codex.

I really don't care what other people do as it's their business.

mortal888 wrote:I really don't care what other people do as it's their business.

Valuable insight.

I play the game to play the game. I will play against your printed codex and cardboard cut outs any day of the week. I will judge a person on what type of challenge they gave me and if it was a friendly experience. Someone else being gouged on the cost of a codex just like I was doesn't really add to my experience much tbh.

@ everyone who says this is bad or wouldn't play with someone with a printed codex:

The amount of anti-social elitism seen here is amazing. Does it really matter if the rules the person is using is on shiny bound paper, flat draft paper, or a greasy piece of cardboard that serves as an official army list while the codex is in the person's head? This IS a GAME, isn't it? Isn't the point of it to have fun, hopefully get a few good laughs, and then maybe catch a beer or two afterwards? I'm sorry if your opponent skipping the $30 on a codex secretly fills you with guilt over the amount of money you poured into a book that fell apart on you after 3 months of use. It doesn't me. Hell, someone could field a Space Wolf army out of bottlecaps against me if they wanted to, so long as they can keep track of what is what. This game is a moneysink, and costs more than what it's worth. If people want to circumvent that cost, I'm not a "good" enough person to tell them not to. I'm glad there are enough of you who have such honest and perfect lives to be able to vigilantly police this without tire or hypocritical guilt.

And in case you're wondering, I have all of my armies purchased and modeled.

I also own (in GW published form) the latest:
Imperial Guard
Witch Hunters
Daemonhunters
Tyrnids
Space Marines
Chaos Space Marines
Tau

Note that I only actually play half those armies.

@ everyone else:

I'm in the St. Louis, MO area. Let me know if you want to play a game sometime.

I suspect the issue comes down to:

Playing with friends or playing in a store/tournament.

If you play with your friends, go hog wild. Whatever they'll let you get away with.

If you're going into a store, man up and buy your codex. Fair, unfair, or pineapple, that store probably makes their money selling the game you're playing.

I find those who would refuse to play someone who didn't have a "legal" codex amusing.
Those who threated violence upon said codex are... amusingly ITG. No such action would happen in person.
While a store owner would have the right to react that way in his store, doing so would be an atrocity from a customer service stand point, since you don't know the situation.

Although I have yet to do it, I *WILL* download copies of all of the codices I own that are arranged in the new, stupid, split format.
I will cut out all of the rules and arrange them in a sensible format for me.
THOSE will be the codices I game with.

Don't like it? I don't care.
Tear it because you don't? Try again whe you wake up. lol

People who make assumptions about copied codices are more TFG than the TFG with illegal copies.

Eric

For those who are flipping out over anybody who is arguing against the use of pirated/copied codicies just relax. The issue that I personally have is that not owning an original codex can become a slippery slope. Who's to say that the pirating/copying started/ended with their codexes? Maybe it's a rule book. Would you play with somebody who has a few "select" pages of the rule book? No, of course not. You expect somebody that is playing the game to have a copy of the rules.

We're not saying that those who don't own the book are evil people. If you own a copy of an original and keep it at home, but bring a personal copy then that is fine. I seriously doubt that anybody would fault you for that.

From my personal experience (and this is with one person of late) I've seen how irritating it is for someone not to have the original. I've asked said person to explain part of their armies special rules. This person did not have the original, just the pages of the Codex with stats, points, and options. We made it through the game, but the game was lacking because of my opponents lack of information. Not having access to the real thing is frustrating.

Of course that is my opinion, take it with a grain of salt, or whatever you may choose to do.

Frazzled wrote:That was weird, did someone's post just disappear?

I was having issues posting in this thread. I responded to you and it never appeared but I was able to see it in my profile.

In the case of Blood Angels, I have no choice - C: BA is only available via PDF.

squilverine wrote:I have never encountered someone using a "copied" codex, but I wouldn't be happy to play them if I did.

Codex's are probably one of the better value for money items GW produce, they are also of good quality.

There is no real difference between this and downloading movies illegaly, in which case rather than arrse about with a shoddy copy, just go and steal one of the shelf of your local GW, there is little difference. You would still effectively be using something which doesn't belong to you without the owners permission.

What about people like me?

I use copied codex and copied summary sheets?

LunaHound wrote:What about people like me? I use copied codex and copied summary sheets?

I could get behind dragging you behind the woodshed for a whuppin
I think *where* is as important as why.
If your LGS lets you get away with a photocopied codex or a print of the condensed version often available on filesharing sites, or in competiton it sets a bad precedent. Were I a LGS owner, or manager (Ah for the days of my underpaid youth), I'd put you out personally and as politely as possible because your book is no more or less valuable than the guy with a greasy, fingerprinty one with cheeto dust on it despite personal preferences on treating books.

In someone's home its a different story.
I personally think its rude to the other players and projects a sense of entitlement. Conversely I'd feel mildly embarrassed comparing the quality of my painting to yours Luna, and feel I was being mildly rude to you as part of the same gaming group not to aspire to that level.

*raise hand meekly*

I use the printed BA codex...

Oldgrue wrote:

LunaHound wrote:What about people like me? I use copied codex and copied summary sheets?

I could get behind dragging you behind the woodshed for a whuppin
I think *where* is as important as why.
If your LGS lets you get away with a photocopied codex or a print of the condensed version often available on filesharing sites, or in competiton it sets a bad precedent. Were I a LGS owner, or manager (Ah for the days of my underpaid youth), I'd put you out personally and as politely as possible because your book is no more or less valuable than the guy with a greasy, fingerprinty one with cheeto dust on it despite personal preferences on treating books.

In someone's home its a different story.
I personally think its rude to the other players and projects a sense of entitlement. Conversely I'd feel mildly embarrassed comparing the quality of my painting to yours Luna, and feel I was being mildly rude to you as part of the same gaming group not to aspire to that level.

Nono i meant , i own actual codex , but i still photocopy them to use /play and keep the original copy safe at home.
I remember first doing this when someone borrowed my new codex and i think its deliberate , he wrinkled EVERY page he turned .
This is what i normally use: ( well back when i still play , so they are OOP now )

See?? Luna is smart to bring copies of the summary sheets!

SPARKEYG wrote:I'm not against having archive copies of books you own. I do take issue w/ people not purchasing codex's for armies they are playing. If you don't buy the book for financial reasons, you are focused on the wrong place to save money. If you aren't buying it to 'stick it to the man,' GTFU. $25 for rules and fiction is not that bad.

Would I be a dick and not play against someone w/o the bound copy? No, people need to grow up and not inflict their anger and self-control issues at others. In the future I may politely state that I would rather not play w/o the codex's on the table, but never insinuate that a photo-copied or pdf version is theft.

No anger or self control issues here mate.

Also I wasn't insinuating that it was theft I was stating that it is. The bottom line is that taking/using something without paying for it is stealing. I wouldn't get angry with that person, I would simply say that I would rather not play them unless they own a copy of the geniune codex.

Having PDF's or copies of old codex's which the company has released for this type of use is fine, as is making copies of a codex you already own, as long as it is just for personal use.

With regards to quality issues I have always found GW's books to be pretty sturdy, but I have heard of some being prone to falling apart.

I think that from now on I'm not going to play anyone with out their own copy of the codex for there army, and not a printed PDF. If you can spend hundreds of dollars on mini's and cases, pony up the money for the damn codex. I'm glad someone started this post, I've been on the fence so I'm getting off the fence now.

If someone is trying out an army they arnt sure yet to buy, then I dont care if its a print out. I wouldnt want someone to dump money on an army and dex just to say, oh I suck with them.
I do however have print outs at my table, for rules quarries. I agree that once you decide you like said army, its time to man up and get the damn book.

Anarchyman99 wrote:I think that from now on I'm not going to play anyone with out their own copy of the codex for there army, and not a printed PDF. If you can spend hundreds of dollars on mini's and cases, pony up the money for the damn codex. I'm glad someone started this post, I've been on the fence so I'm getting off the fence now.

How do you guys know whether you are playing against someone with printed internet downloaded codex
vs
someone that made photocopies of the real codex but just chose to use the copy and not original?

It doesn't bother me. I can see it bothering some of the more hardcore gamers and that.
But Im too chilled I guess.

I think we're all missing the point. GW is in the business of game models, not in the business of game rules.

Thor665 wrote:I think we're all missing the point. GW is in the business of game models, not in the business of game rules.

I'm sorry, I seem to be confused. there's this corporate logo in the bottom right corner of the codex, on the spine...Perhaps it isn't their core business, but its most definitely their business.

I want to reiterate that I have no problem with maintaining a backup of your data - digital or no. I don't agree with whipping out a photocopied codex at your LGS - I think its rude to your host.

How dare you make a backup copy of an item you own and use *IT* instead of the copy you purchased, so that the original remains in good condition!

You probably hate Jesus, too.

; )

MagickalMemories wrote:
You probably hate Jesus, too.
; )

I'm fair. I give all the supernatural attributes the same credence I give someone at Operating Thetan 4+. Its just my thing.

Oldgrue wrote:I'm sorry, I seem to be confused. there's this corporate logo in the bottom right corner of the codex, on the spine...Perhaps it isn't their core business, but its most definitely their business.

You would think so, wouldn't you?

i play with downloaded and printed forgeworld books. mind you i use only one page and thats the reaver titan.

I have downloaded all the codex so i can read them and keep myself uptodate on my rules i own an auctualy copy of the rules for the armies i play.

personally I do not care what the other person does as long as the codex is accurate.

Thor665 wrote:You would think so, wouldn't you?

Yeah, I'd think they'd be into making good rules too, but we get cheap perfect bound books

Oldgrue wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:
You probably hate Jesus, too.
; )

I'm fair. I give all the supernatural attributes the same credence I give someone at Operating Thetan 4+. Its just my thing.

Uh-oh, you just brought in religion. It is now my civil duty to club you for insulting our Lord. It's okay to treat Heimdall and Apollo as fictional characters, but you damn well better not mock Christianity.