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Sidstyler wrote:lolz, you know he's just trolling you, right? He didn't chase off any BA player, he's just trying to see how many people respond with "OMG you're a dick!"

I wonder how many more people will tear him a new donkey-cave before realizing that?

My delicate sense of immersion! Thanks Sid, now I need to find something else to be angry about, you jerk ;-)

Ahtman wrote:This all seemed to assume pirated. I've seen people with printed ones to avoid damaging (a little over protective, I know) their books. If you knew the person owned the book but didn't want to break the spine, avoid spills, ect, whatever, would that still be a problem? Again, in the scenario you know they do own the book.

Yep , im one of those "type" of people.

I always have the following:

-Main Codex: ( real one )
-Photo Copied pages into a binder
-1 color laminated copy of codex cover art in the front / Summary sheet in the back. ( This one i carry around during gaming the most )

The way i see it , GW codex isnt known for durability . If im going to have a book costing me $30 , it better last throughout the 4 years minimum.
Im not about to buy a 2nd to replace it if it falls apart.








Automatically Appended Next Post:

Here is example to what i meant earlier:
(PS , im sure there are plenty of printed ones without real codex , but just saying other types of legit prints that exists as well )

the only time i saw someone using a printed codex was when i kid printed out the info for a gk squad for his IG i didnt really care because i doubt he had copied it from online...he was six

I wouldn't be bothered if they had a printed codex as long as it was for a home game and everything else they had was official. (I say home game because I imagine LFGS's, won't let you in with one)

If it was me though I'd use a printed one purely for protection reasons, as in, I have a printed one i use for games so if it gets damaged then I still have the original official one, and use the official one when army building.

But I trust the people I play with so have never thought about it until now. But as my Marine codex is falling apart for some silly reason I'm going to be laminating it anyway. (Thanks go to my work for the laminater that I've borrowed on a long term basis (yes I do plan to return it someday))

Sidstyler wrote:

Wow. Everyone has their fail moments.

Yeah I know, I've been caught feeding the troll once or twice myself...

There is no "maybe", he's busting your balls and so many of you are falling for it, it's ridiculous. I'm not often the brightest tool in the orchard and I managed to spot that he was joking around early on, and your excuse is "Well I have no faith in humanity so I'm pretty sure he's being honest." Pfft...

Not QUITE where I was heading, but in all honesty where I was heading was no better. Yeah, you caught me. Busted.

Depends.

If the codex is currently in print, then don't even think about using a printed codex against me. Because I will get angry. You won't like it when I'm angry. .

On th other hand, If it's a book that can no longer be purchased in store (E.G Lustria, Eye of terror etc), the I'm fine with that, as I refuse to pay the prices I find most of these codexes for-and I don't expect anyone else to either.

Basically, out of print=
In print= .

LLF

Hmm this is a complicted topic- I understand why people don't like it when people download codexs to save money, although personally I have no issues with it at all, as long they have all the rules it doesn't impact the game so I am fine with it. However I can understand people being annoyed that they spend the money so other people should.

I guess the main thing is to look at circumstances:
-Do they have a codex, I play BA myself and if anyone politely asked me why I had a printed codex it's ok, but if they start being rude its complitely different .
-What are they using it for. I often get copies of them for armies I do not own or am considering starting. I dunno about everyone else but I can't afford to buy every codex just to look at the army, and I am not able to go to GW regularly.
-Do they have the book, I can fully understand not wanting to have your codex damaged. I have seen people have there codex borrowed with out them knowing (cough cough... No I do actualy think someone was just looking at it but the guy was still pretty angry).

I just people should think before they just start do stupid things-not directed at anyone here but we all know people who over react.

Times when it's okay:

Downloaded Blood Angel Codex
Downloaded Warmachine MK2 stuff


I think that's it.

Lord-Loss wrote:Not having a offical dex shows lack of respect for GW, not you, your club or your FLGS.

That's why I'm perfectly okay with pirated/printed/whatever unofficial codices, because it just gives GW the finger. You're already buying their expensive miniatures in order to play, I think that's enough. After all, they're a miniatures company, not a rules company, right? I mean, there's so many threads on Dakka where GW is attacked for this and that, and yet people seem to buy everything they publish - and afterwards still be angry with GW and, obviously, even with people who sort of avoided the GW money trap. I can understand the feeling of being cheated when you buy a real rulebook and others just download it, but just a little. After all, nobody has forced you to do so, especially when you're not 100 % convinced of GW. If you are, other's wrongs shouldn't really bother you.
It's pretty much the same as being angry with someone who owns an MP3 player or iPod or something, because there's no way in hell all of those 40 GB of music are legit. If you apply the same standards to that, most posters in this thread ought to be angry with nearly the whole world. I for one am not angry when buying an original CD, nor has anyone ever been with me because I might own some MP3s that weren't so paid-for.

First, I have no problem for things that are no longer in print. Download as much as you like.

I have download copies of pretty much every GW publication. I like to be able to read the codexes of armies I might be considering, or armies I might face. Of course, if I actually start collecting the army, I'll buy the codex. It's a much handier way to consult the rules, and I have no problem paying for things I'll USE. I wouldn't want to use printouts, anyway.

I'd be critical of anyone who uses printout codexes, though I'd be ok with it if they were just proxying and trying out new things. As long as, when they DO decide to go with the choice, they buy the book.

For example, If you want to 'try out' your SM army using DA rules to see what happens, by all means use a download. Just buy the book if you decide that's the way you're gonna play them in future...

Oh, and I guess I'd use download IA books if I was only using one unit or something. If you've got a whole Krieg army, buy the book. If you ONLY need the rules for your one Blight Drone, I'm not gonna force you to spend £50 on a hardback rulebook...!

I do have virtually every Codex in PDF format, but I've never used one to game with. Mainly I have them as a reference point, so I can quickly zip to a page to find a reference without having to go through all my actual Codices.

I try to memorise all the most popular armies, I know CSM, SM, SW.

I know when people are cheating with Tau, Crons and Orks cause Ive looked over the dexs and know there rules roughly.

malfred wrote:Times when it's okay:

Downloaded Blood Angel Codex
Downloaded Warmachine MK2 stuff


I think that's it.

Don't forget the FAQ's and errata! Although, GW WAS kind enough to combine the FAQ for the BA into the pdf.

Lord-Loss wrote:I try to memorise all the most popular armies, I know CSM, SM, SW.

I know when people are cheating with Tau, Crons and Orks cause Ive looked over the dexs and know there rules roughy.

He knows when you are sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows if you've been bad or good so be GOOD for goodness sake!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and I have no problem with people having electronic copy of codexes they haven't paid for. I see no real difference between that and store copies. It's how the owner employs it that makes the difference.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:First up I'd ask what makes my opponent so special that they are exempt from paying for their hobby, then probably burn/shred their 'codex'

According to international copyright laws, I'm allowed to make a copy of any media I bought for personal backup use. What makes you so special that you feel it is okay to enforce your own, incorrect, view of the world on other people and burn/shred their property?


I recently got a netbook, and have a copy of every codex, rulebook, FAQ, and supplement on it (plus Army Builder). I have also paid for every single one, and have them on a shelf in my basement. I no longer worry about forgetting my list, or my codex, or even playing an opponent who left their codex at home. There is nothing illegal or unethical about my actions, and I think it is unreasonable for anyone to think that I'm doing so to avoid paying for my hobby.

I just bought Codex Space Wolves! but I'm still going to download it because i like it on my usb key so I can slack off in media class (I have every codex on my usb key, they make a great reference)

Redbeard wrote:
According to international copyright laws, I'm allowed to make a copy of any media I bought for personal backup use. What makes you so special that you feel it is okay to enforce your own, incorrect, view of the world on other people and burn/shred their property?

Any chance you could throw me a link to the relevant copyright laws or somesuch document? I'm hunting for one right now but not much luck. I'd love to be able to copy all the rules out of my Chaos Codex and just put them into a binder.

I think he meant he made the copy.

malfred wrote:I think he meant he made the copy.

I meant a link to the copyright laws that allow that, haha. I suppose my request does look rather dubious.

Mine is a hunted breed, but I don't personally mind people using printed codexes. I don't exactly endorse being a cheapskate, but I don't see how it is any worse than buying the products off online stores, ebay, or using non-GW glue or paints. It is on the level of scratchbuilding, and I don't really mind it. However, I would never endorse turning up to a GW store or a competetive event with a printed codex. That would just be rude. No problem in friendly games at home though. Instead of rebutting my statement, remember that this is just my opinion, and each is entitled to his own.

avantgarde wrote:I hate gamers with printed codexes, it gives off a lack of respect for your opponent. I remember playing a pick up game against a BA player a few months ago and he had a printed off dex. If someone is going to be a dick I'm going to be a dick right back so I started changing the rules on him like my Black Templars had 6++, Preferred Enemy and +1S all at the same time and I wouldn't let him look at my codex to confirm. He got the message and never came back to the store.

tiekwando wrote:avantgarde you know that the BA codex is printed off right? Its an online official codex until they make a new one. Also when you are complaining about a lack of respect you probably should show some first, cheating is hardly an appropriate response.

Lord-Loss wrote:Ive dowloaded the new SW codex off the interweb, memorised most of it and use the "store copy" for minor rule questions.

Not having a offical dex shows lack of respect for GW, not you, your club or your FLGS.

Avantgarde@ You sound like you were being a total dick.

1) The printed dex is the only type of BA dex.
2) So what if he had a printed dex, does it change your gaming exprience in anyway, No it doesnt.
3) You dont change the rules cause you of a printed dex, thats silly and childish.

wow, you guys totally epic failed on your 40k trivia checks. HE'S JOKING, not trolling! the rules he "made up" to punish the BA player using a printed codex are simply the vows he has as a black templar player, lol. repeat, he's JOKING! he did nothing illegal to the BA player; look it up in your pirated codices! it's like me saying that i want to screw over someone using a printed codex with my space wolves, so i made every power weapon strength 5 (ie a frost blade) and told him that if he has the gall to charge me that i'll charge him back! (army wide countercharge rule) also, if he is really a dork and wants to kill my favorite model (my marine with a goofy grin and a cape), then i'll simply no longer let him use the models in the unit that did it for the REST OF THE GAME as punishment! (lucas's stasis grenade rule or whatever it's called). that'll teach him to bring his printed codex!

p.s. i USE the printed codex for my BA.

Interesting to see posters vehemently against recasting using printed codices.

It doesn't bother me but as a store owner I could understand a different perspective. I like to know what I'm buying so I exercise the many advantages the internet has and I check out a codex before purchasing, even had the IG codex a week or two before official release, etc. Also hauling around a binder as opposed to a bunch of codices is more convenient and safer and if you lose the binder you're not out $30.

warboss wrote:

avantgarde wrote:I hate gamers with printed codexes, it gives off a lack of respect for your opponent. I remember playing a pick up game against a BA player a few months ago and he had a printed off dex. If someone is going to be a dick I'm going to be a dick right back so I started changing the rules on him like my Black Templars had 6++, Preferred Enemy and +1S all at the same time and I wouldn't let him look at my codex to confirm. He got the message and never came back to the store.

tiekwando wrote:avantgarde you know that the BA codex is printed off right? Its an online official codex until they make a new one. Also when you are complaining about a lack of respect you probably should show some first, cheating is hardly an appropriate response.

Lord-Loss wrote:Ive dowloaded the new SW codex off the interweb, memorised most of it and use the "store copy" for minor rule questions.

Not having a offical dex shows lack of respect for GW, not you, your club or your FLGS.

Avantgarde@ You sound like you were being a total dick.

1) The printed dex is the only type of BA dex.
2) So what if he had a printed dex, does it change your gaming exprience in anyway, No it doesnt.
3) You dont change the rules cause you of a printed dex, thats silly and childish.

wow, you guys totally epic failed on your 40k trivia checks. HE'S JOKING, not trolling! the rules he "made up" to punish the BA player using a printed codex are simply the vows he has as a black templar player, lol. repeat, he's JOKING! he did nothing illegal to the BA player; look it up in your pirated codices! it's like me saying that i want to screw over someone using a printed codex with my space wolves, so i made every power weapon strength 5 (ie a frost blade) and told him that if he has the gall to charge me that i'll charge him back! (army wide countercharge rule) also, if he is really a dork and wants to kill my favorite model (my marine with a goofy grin and a cape), then i'll simply no longer let him use the models in the unit that did it for the REST OF THE GAME as punishment! (lucas's stasis grenade rule or whatever it's called). that'll teach him to bring his printed codex!

p.s. i USE the printed codex for my BA.

He was trolling that comment was meant to cause a negative reaction for his enjoyment. Thats what trolls do, he even admitted he trolled.

Cane wrote:Interesting to see posters vehemently against recasting using printed codices.

Not to re-open that debate, but they are significantly different in terms of intellectual property use and rights. Recasting someone else's intellectual property is illegal. Having a copy of a piece of media that you purchased for personal use is legal. Is it really that interesting that I'm in favour of legal actions and against illegal ones?

What's with the big hubla over printed codices and army books?

I honestly don't use any but if someone used on against me I wouldn't care. It would just tell me that people don't care about GW. To me, I don't really care.

Does it show lack of respect? Not really. Just a refusal to waste 25 bucks on a book that's going to fall apart in 10 minutes.

Plus, it's about the models anyway. Not the rules.

I don't really care if people use printed codices. Your average Warhammer army already costs OVER NINE THOUSAND dollars so I don't see what the big deal is if someone doesn't spend $20 on a codex.

I prefer to have the book anyway, though.

I'll admit I have over 4gbs worth of codex', rulebooks , painiing guides etc.. however I do not game I only use them for painting references and to read the fluff

If you can't afford to buy a set of golf clubs, can you still go to the course with a 'copied' set of clubs and play a couple of rounds of golf? I think this whole question comes down to a question of ethics. As a long time gamer that actually owns all of the 40k codices, I do find it rather offensive that someone can't come up with the money to purchase a codex for the army they are playing. Am I going to refuse to play against them because of it - probably not. Am I going to do it - nope!

I have a purchased copy of the Orks Codex.

Before I bought it, I found a torrent of it, and the BGB (I bought the rulebook too, more because I can't stand shuffling through PDF files, I need a book, and was too lazy to print it out) I mainly did the pirate thing so I could try and figure out what kind of army I wanted to get into, before plunking down money for a codex and doing yet more thinking.

As for people using printouts and such....I donno, I only know one guy who plays blood angels. I've never seen anyone with a pirate codex. I do sometimes feel like I should photocopy relevant pages in the BGB so that I don't have to take THE ENTIRE BOOK with me if I want the rules, but I don't know how legal this is.

yeah,
I bought copies of all 40k Codex.
I think the fluff justifies their cost, even if I don't play the army.

'Know thy enemy, for you are known to him already'
I read the rules briefly too so that I have some understanding of how each army works.

Panic...

i don't have a problem with people using printed pirated codices when they play against me. i personally don't use them (if i'm investing in a 40k army, i'll buy the codex) but i'm not going to refuse to play against someone who does. i DO however encourage them to buy the real thing for armies they own and (if that fails) DO reserve the right to quip about their use of the said printed copy. generally, i do this by referring their ingame actions to the carribean code, specially annunciating the letter "arrrgggg", and referring to their lack of a parrot/eye patch/limb prosthetic, and trying to use the words "matey" and "bollocks" as often as possible.