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I wouldn't have a problem with someone using it at all.

I do think thought that if you are going to play an army then you should have the codex but really I could care less. It's kinda like bagging on people for sculpting their own models or converting models for cheap when you bought the actual models.

I will admit to using online codexes for the purpose of learning about other armies and building theoretical armies, but if I were to actually play the army yes I would have the actual Codex. I don't want to pay for a bunch of codexes just to learn about Eldar rules or something like that.

Printed is okay if it's a codex that is only available as a PDF (eg. Ravening Hordes or Blood Angels)
I think in a shop, you'd be fair enough to ask the player to use a purchased codex.

I'll tolerate bootleg codices, but I cannot abide soda bottles "counts as" drop pods. That just pisses me right off. Like most others, I buy the codex for any army I play. However, if I have questions about another army I will consult a friend's .pdf.

Back before the Ork codex was released, a friend downloaded and printed out a copy of the codex that got leaked. He bought the real codex when it came out. He left his codex behind and I got to use it for a while, but then he took it back and now I'm stuck with a printout. I'll wrangle up the $20 sometime soon for the real book.

i have the codex for every army I own - I also carry photocopies of the relative pages, too much is filler, less wear and tear.

If you own a book you are allowed to make copies for yourself - just like you can make copies of cd's or software discs you own - completely legally - give of sell them to someone else - then there's an issue.

That being said - when they charge 30 bucks for a 70 page booklet and 70 for a 500 page hard bound book I can see why people would want to save some cash.

If GW really gave a rats butt about their customers they would offer a discount if you own the previous version of the rules. Cut out the title page as POP

I recent bought updated book(non GW tattoo related book), $250 bucks, but if you sent in your previous printing they sent you a refund of 100 bucks - this is exactly why I had no hesitation on buying the update. A 20 dollar credit would go a long way to ensuring I would buy the next version.

I like the pirate lingo idea warboss suggested and will be incorporating it into game play...

Mind you if they wanted to GW would make a killing selling codecs electronicly

IMHO the first thing you should buy for an army is the book. If you can't spot the cash for that then you don't need to be in the hobby.

barlio wrote:IMHO the first thing you should buy for an army is the book. If you can't spot the cash for that then you don't need to be in the hobby.

So, I'm thinking of playing Necrons but I don't have the money on me right now to buy the codex. So I should tell the hobby to shove it because I don't have enough money?

yeah,
I think that the point is clear, if you can't afford a codex, this isn't the hobby for you.

Panic...

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:So, I'm thinking of playing Necrons but I don't have the money on me right now to buy the codex. So I should tell the hobby to shove it because I don't have enough money?

I like how people always refer to the 'hobby' as something that lives or breathes....

But to relevancy! I have no problem personally playing a person with a printed out codex. Nor do I have problems playing someone with paper cut outs for models... As long as the cut outs were of the right thing.

My interest comes from the game playing. What others do affects me how? It makes my experience of the battle no less interesting.... I mean, these are little plastic toy soldiers, and Goddammit, I'm going to have fun playing with them regardless of what you do.

Now I agree taking such items to a FLGS would be totally crass and akin to a slap in the face.

Also, just for your information, I have my codex and don't play with paper cut outs.

If you are going to collect the army, then yes you should buy the book.

That being said, when I bought the new SM codex the spine gave out within a week, as did its free replacement (gw was good about replacing it). Given the poor quality of the bindings on GW books, I have since photocopied mine and now I play only with the photocopy.

To tournaments I always bring the original as well for show, but I do not always bring it to FLGS to play a pick up game. This has caused the occasional minor issue, but honestly overall has been less hassle than the stupid book falling apart all the time.

panic wrote:I think that the point is clear, if you can't afford a codex, this isn't the hobby for you.

Oh please, do I need a book just to model and paint?

bsohi wrote:I like how people always refer to the 'hobby' as something that lives or breathes....

Well, shows what you know

It does not bother me at all whether or not someone I am playing is using a pirated codex or not; as long as it is all together.

I've downloaded my share of music and video so I can't really act put out by someone who has downloaded a pirated pdf.

I've downloaded codex pdfs before they hit the shelves; more to check them out than anything. Any army I have chosen to play I've bought the codex for.

Like Him^ I don't actually care. As long as they know their army rules it's all good. Having to tell my opponent how to play his army for him is a bit much (because I know it better than he does).

I'm not interested in whether they use GW models, bits, paints, glue, tools or flock either or even if they can play "like they have a pair".

If someone has owns the army, and uses it, I would expect them to have the codex, but if they are just testing it, or writing lists with it I would be perfectly fine with that.

Illegal downloading pirates > Copyright whinging ninjas.

but I digress.. I dont care as long as the rules are at the game and in english..

GW japan offers downloads of all dexs.. in japanese however.

I would never use a downloaded codex, unless of course it was offered by GW for free.

Would i be offended by someone using one? I never thought about it because i dont know anyone who would. I only play with my gaming group of around 30 guys, we buy all of our GW stuff.

I equate downloading the codexes from torrent or whatever as the same as downloading music, movies, or roms for emulators: illegal.

I don't personally like breaking the law, others may, but i dont.

I also like having the physical book in my hand; btw i own all 3 vraks books; I don't think i'd even think of downloading a codex because i only play a handful of armies and i love them so much i would feel i am disgracing them by not owning the actual book.

avantgarde wrote:I hate gamers with printed codexes, it gives off a lack of respect for your opponent. I remember playing a pick up game against a BA player a few months ago and he had a printed off dex. If someone is going to be a dick I'm going to be a dick right back so I started changing the rules on him like my Black Templars had 6++, Preferred Enemy and +1S all at the same time and I wouldn't let him look at my codex to confirm. He got the message and never came back to the store.

Now that that is taken care of, I DLed the codices BEFORE I decided on an army to get an idea of what I wanted to play, then proceeded to buy my first army and dex. Now I have em all on disk as reference for YMDC at work, if only I could beat Gwar! at the posting...

EDIT: Forgot ebay, I picked up a collection of the codices from RT era to current for $70 to justify my keeping the digital copies to myself.

I have found the Codices to be very poorly produced for the price, the spine breaks and you're left with a very shoddy looking book very quickly.

Nonetheless I do buy the codex or army book for each army I own. I do get a friend to download the other ones and I read them on my computer.

There is no way in hell I will buy the codices for armies I don't collect but I wish to understand how they function and to that end I do maitain electronic copies.

I don't think anyone should be expected to buy a codex just for looking at ideas to beat that army, GW have enough ways of tricking us out of our money, if you like having a book then it's up to you but if I bought every codex / army book i've ever looked at then I would all the books and very little money for models.

I don't mean to be aiming at anyone with this but if you say you want other people to get the real book just because you have it, does that mean they can't buy the models cheaper from ebay or an independant stockist for less because you payed the full price for them.

just because other people have done something different if it's more practical I say good luck to them.

Before I used to not care if someone used a downloaded Codex. For the most part GW is the money vampire draining us dry with new editions and army books everytime we turn around. So alittle bit of fist raising against them I didn't mind. That being said I heard of a moment at the local store where someone downloaded a codex that many people had not read and went into the pdf and changed some of the special rules to their benefit. Since then If you don't own it you don't play it.

RustyKnight wrote:

malfred wrote:I think he meant he made the copy.

I meant a link to the copyright laws that allow that, haha. I suppose my request does look rather dubious.

The Berne Convention is the statute that most countries conforms to.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/treaties/berne/overview.html

I buy the models long before I buy the book. So I find a pdf on the webs, or I borrow a book.

Otherwise I may have to buy a book again before I play with the completed army. See Space marines.

It seems some people are indignant that someone else is able to play the game without spending as much as they have.

It strikes me as being upset that your opponent got his army for $5 at a rummage sale, and you had to pay retail.


How do people stand on the following scenario.

My friend buys a codex. He copies it for himself. I play the same army, so I use his copy, and he uses the original.

Or this. A friend of mine makes copies for the entire group everytime he buys an army book or set of rules.

I have never encountered someone using a "copied" codex, but I wouldn't be happy to play them if I did.

Codex's are probably one of the better value for money items GW produce, they are also of good quality.

There is no real difference between this and downloading movies illegaly, in which case rather than arrse about with a shoddy copy, just go and steal one of the shelf of your local GW, there is little difference. You would still effectively be using something which doesn't belong to you without the owners permission.

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:

panic wrote:I think that the point is clear, if you can't afford a codex, this isn't the hobby for you.

Oh please, do I need a book just to model and paint?

No, you need it to play.

I'm not against having archive copies of books you own. I do take issue w/ people not purchasing codex's for armies they are playing. If you don't buy the book for financial reasons, you are focused on the wrong place to save money. If you aren't buying it to 'stick it to the man,' GTFU. $25 for rules and fiction is not that bad.

Would I be a dick and not play against someone w/o the bound copy? No, people need to grow up and not inflict their anger and self-control issues at others. In the future I may politely state that I would rather not play w/o the codex's on the table, but never insinuate that a photo-copied or pdf version is theft.

Meh
Might get 'crons and sm codices for reference. (I own them)

Maybe the tau one as well (have tau player friend)

squilverine wrote:Codex's are probably one of the better value for money items GW produce, they are also of good quality.

I hope you are kidding. I coddle my codex' like they are infants every time I handle them yet they still manage to fall apart. I had a friend who had pages fall out of his new Tau book within the first week, who then took it back and got GW to exchange it only to have the next book begin falling apart a few weeks later. Brutal quality.

Majesticgoat wrote:

squilverine wrote:Codex's are probably one of the better value for money items GW produce, they are also of good quality.

I hope you are kidding. I coddle my codex' like they are infants every time I handle them yet they still manage to fall apart. I had a friend who had pages fall out of his new Tau book within the first week, who then took it back and got GW to exchange it only to have the next book begin falling apart a few weeks later. Brutal quality.

I still have every single codex I've bought since 2nd ed. They've all gone through multiple moves and being rough handled by me and people I loan them out to. I've never ONCE had a Codex fall apart on me. I've never seen one fall apart that wasn't mishandled, either(the only 2 I've seen fall apart was one had a cover come clean off from being walked on too much and the other was ripped in half because of the same thing). Until I personally watch one disintegrate for no reason, I will continue to believe that any Codex coming apart is due to general mishandling(such as folding it over so that the covers and binding are on the inside, perfect bounds CAN NOT take that).

You're extremely lucky then. I've seen four Space Marine codexes fall apart within a week of purchase, and all in the same place...the elites page comes out. Four different codexes this is. And my friend got an extremely badly misprinted High Elves army book a while back. Pages out of order, assuming they weren't missing altogether.

In fairness, the new Guard codex, the latest one I've gotten,is holding up well. But the Ork and Marine ones are looking a bit ragged.

I am not your mamma. Its not my place to babysit you and tell you what you can and can't do.