Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

My mistake.

And yes, on DP assault, its always half rounded up on turn 1, no choice.

Grey Templar wrote:
and even if your opponent knows you have pods, he has already made a list in a tourny and can't change. True he can hold things in reserve, but that will only get him so far.

This is basic drop pod defense version 1, Grey. If your opponent has a lot of pods, (1) try to make him go first and (2) don't deploy anything. So he's dropping half his pods (rounded up) on an empty table without knowing where the fight is going to be, then when your units come in he's stranded and you have the initiative. You get the first shot, can melta the dreads and stand off or assault or whatever your army's advantage is, and it doesn't matter if the opponent's later drops or teleports come in within 6" of the pods that are there with no scatter because you already control mobility on the table. Any list can do it, but versus any mech list--especially Eldar, but also marines, chaos marines and Tau--all podding is lose because the pods strand their transported units without knowing where the enemy will be.

Version 2 of drop pod defense is the one with cheap bubble-wrap units that make the pods land outside of melta range from the more valuable stuff. That one is for specialized armies.

Flavius Infernus wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:
and even if your opponent knows you have pods, he has already made a list in a tourny and can't change. True he can hold things in reserve, but that will only get him so far.

This is basic drop pod defense version 1, Grey. If your opponent has a lot of pods, (1) try to make him go first and (2) don't deploy anything. So he's dropping half his pods (rounded up) on an empty table without knowing where the fight is going to be, then when your units come in he's stranded and you have the initiative. You get the first shot, can melta the dreads and stand off or assault or whatever your army's advantage is, and it doesn't matter if the opponent's later drops or teleports come in within 6" of the pods that are there with no scatter because you already control mobility on the table. Any list can do it, but versus any mech list--especially Eldar, but also marines, chaos marines and Tau--all podding is lose because the pods strand their transported units without knowing where the enemy will be.

Version 2 of drop pod defense is the one with cheap bubble-wrap units that make the pods land outside of melta range from the more valuable stuff. That one is for specialized armies.

Yep, that exact technique is how pure drop pod armies tend to fall off the top tables...

There is an answer, and its not perfect, but you can run pure pods if you do it right.

Basically, you need an equal number of "duds" as you have 'striker' pods. If your opponent plays the reserve game, then you send in your duds. with the strikers still in position in reserve to get their first hit. My favorite duds have long range heavy weapons, or are deisigned to be empty pods, you land and get into position to fire when they arrive.

Here is an example list of a 'safer' iron hands list. Optimized so that you can stand a chance against a reserver.

Master of the forge with conversion beamer

ironclad w/ drop pod

ironclad w/ drop pod

ironclad w/ drop pod

10x tactical squad missile launcher meltagun w/ drop pod

10x tactical squad missile launcher meltagun w/ drop pod

ironclad w/ drop pod

thunderfire cannon w/ drop pod

thunderfire cannon w/ drop pod


The idea is if they has tons of move or fire, he'll have to deploy on table, or if he doesn't trust his reserves he'll start on table, you'll know that before you have to pick which pods assault. I would always deploy my thunderfire cannons and probably one tac squad with the master of the forge in fortified ruins if i could get them, then if my opponent was deployed on table i'd call down 4 ironclads. If he was reserved then I'd call down my other tac squad in pod. and combat squad near an objective, drop the empty tac squad and thunderfire drop pods right on top of objectives, and hold all of my ironclads back. This way the have a much higher likelihood of arriving when there is something on the table to hurt.

If you don't use this method, and load 200 points of hurt into each of your drop pods, you are going to get dismantled by an reservers (most mech armies or relentless heavy weapon armies can and will reserve)

I agree 100% with Shep and Flavius Infernus. Reserves and Drop Pod assault really knocked pure drop armies down a peg, because pure Drop Pods require the ability to react to your opponent to be effective (because once they land you are stuck).

Since it is so easy for your opponent to react to you, and since Drop Pods offer very little protection for the guys inside, that is why #3 exists.

If you want a lot of Pods, the magic number is three, and two of those carry dreadnoughts.

Only times i run "pure pods" regularly is in appoclypse.

One tactic for regular games for pods, when my opponent plays the reserve game I "Castle up"

Drop pods with non mobile ranged units first(Devs, Tacsquads, Las/missile dreds, Tfire cannons) in the center using pods for cover.

he comes in piece meal(unless he rolls awsome for reserves)

Hammer units(ironclads, assault squads, Termies) come in on target closer to him. they can move and hang out near his board edge and take him out as he comes on.

In most games I don't run all pods but i do it occasionally like this.

I kept winning till the only opponent willing to play me was a flying circus Eldar army. (who always wins ) now i switch around styles

The trick to the awesomeness of the Thunderfire is in the Drop pod for it, that way even in DOW you can get it in a good position.

my friend uses drop pods mostly for lane blockage, placing them in empty in key spots to block in vehicle movement. this gives your opponents light anti-tank weapons target saturation, shoot the things blocking my land raider filled with assault terminators, or shoot the thunderfire....

No one has mentioned jump pack assault marines. What's your take on them?

Is 'no' enough?
Well, they are decent at what they do, but what they do is pretty lacklustre, and there is competition in the FA slots (Attack Bikes, Speeders).

I don't like assault marines, they are not that flexible and are not that great in combat, which is what they are kitted for.

Maybe with Shrike they are more useful, but even then...they still end up as a disruption unit.

Assault marines are better if you get rid of the packs, and put them in a rhino.
If you take 5 marines you in theory get a rhino for about 10 points. And they have an advantage over tac squads in that even that 5 man squad can get a flamer

This is fantastic if you play blood angels, as assault squads are Troops for them.
That is a whole lot of cheap armour.

Most people use assault marines incorrectly!

The seven commandments of assault marines.

1: thou shall never deep strike without a locator beacon

2: thou shall take plasma against MEQs, and flamers against hordes

3: If thou gives thine sergeant a Fist thou shall give him a storm shield

4: thou shall ALWAYS hide behind cover on the advance

5: thou shall never assault terminators or any similer units

6: thou shall remember the mission(This applies to all games )

7: if playing objectives thou shall use assault marines as meat shields

OK. I've got a full 10 men assault squad with power fist and storm shield on the Sargent, along with a chaplain with jump pack. The whole thing comes to 345 points. What would be a better alternative?

The rest of the list is posted in the army list section here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/267071.page

That is a great unit, just like mine.

Naturally avoid things with high initive and power weapons(banshies), or things with with MEQ saves

The storm shield comes into its own when the squad has been whiped out.

Against T'au i run this unit and never fail, only 2 or three assault marines make it through the barrage.

But thats ok, because thats all you need.

had my sergeant and one marine chew through a Shas'o, 2 bodyguard, 12 firewarriors and 3 stealth suits

never used it against orks, but flamers should work good and always, Always get the charge.

Flamers on orks and getting the charge don't always go hand in hand.

...there is a down side to being 'too good' at taking out a portion of an enemy unit.

Most people use assault marines incorrectly!

The seven commandments of assault marines.

1: thou shall never deep strike without a locator beacon

Sometimes you have to, however I often opt not to deepstrike at all, as they are sitting ducks on the turn they drop down.

2: thou shall take plasma against MEQs, and flamers against hordes

And what if you don't know which army you go up against? Flamers are better in general versus 'anything that might come'

3: If thou gives thine sergeant a Fist thou shall give him a storm shield

I'm just gonna go and say NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo-ooooo on this one.
They can't pick your sergeant out in shooting or close combat (except some rare units).
I think its always better putting armor ignoring attacks on a random marine instead. Yes he will die, but thats just a normal guy, why risk your best model in the squad on a 3+ dice? And even lose more points if he dies?
If you get so many armor ignoring attacks that you HAVE to put it on your sergeant, something has gone dead wrong and you're screwed no matter what shield you bring.

4: thou shall ALWAYS hide behind cover on the advance

Yep, but remember to move and not just hide

5: thou shall never assault terminators or any similer units

Yeah, you'll want to assault the weaker assault units, as they are in no way as elite as they'd need to be to go after nobz or terminators etc.

6: thou shall remember the mission(This applies to all games )

Yup, sadly many players forget this.

7: if playing objectives thou shall use assault marines as meat shields

I'd use my marines to speed over and contest/harass the opponents objective.
Marines generally don't need "meatshields" as you need to block los totally to make the enemy unable to fire on the squad. And the cover save is only useful against ap 3 or other weapons like that.
I think you're wasting a lot of points to use them as meatshields.


These are all just my opinions!

SupierioR said this about the sergeant

I'm just gonna go and say NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo-ooooo on this one.
They can't pick your sergeant out in shooting or close combat (except some rare units).
I think its always better putting armor ignoring attacks on a random marine instead. Yes he will die, but thats just a normal guy, why risk your best model in the squad on a 3+ dice? And even lose more points if he dies?
If you get so many armor ignoring attacks that you HAVE to put it on your sergeant, something has gone dead wrong and you're screwed no matter what shield you bring.

Did you see my last post?

I said why i take the SS.

it is for when the sergeant is inevitiably by himself.

You could take a power weapon instead of a fist, but since i play against eldar alot initive dosen't matter

I never put power wounds on him unless i have to

It allows him to keep killing things, with a decent chance of surviving.


AND by meat shields i meant exactly what you said.

other players seem to have an irrational fear of assault marines.

Fear is a weapon wise generals use well.

they will kill assault marines when they could have killed the terminators advancing on the right.

if they kill the termies the assault marines will kill them

Nope missed your last post, my bad

Still don't think its worth the high price just in those cases where he would be the last man alive and still would do some good.

And if thats what you meant by the meat shield part Nice then we're in agreement

One of the best parts of this game is people playing differently, if everyone would run the same lists and tactics it would get extremely boring fast

Good thread. What about armies with drop pods and rhinos/razorbacks, a mix?

A mix is good, it balances out each others pros and cons.
Basically pods make a 'beachhead', rhinos move in to support the pods, (optional) razors in slower speed longer ranged support.

Will wrote:OK. I've got a full 10 men assault squad with power fist and storm shield on the Sargent, along with a chaplain with jump pack. The whole thing comes to 345 points. What would be a better alternative?

The rest of the list is posted in the army list section here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/267071.page

How about 8 assault termies?

345 points? You cannot be serious...

Another topic worth discussion are wether SM are an easy army to play.

I feel you have to determine what is meant by 'play'.
SM are easy to do reasonably well in, the codex can be quite safe.
Yet SM are harder to do very well in. I think there are two main reasons for this: firstly all units can do many things, but should really only do one thing well, and beginner players usually struggle with this concept, thus they tend to just throw the closest unit at the target, which can work with SM, but very often doesnt. Secondly, most metagames around the world are highly inclusive of SM, and most enemies know how to face them, and their list likely contains mechanisms of dealing with the MEQ.
If a marine player can overcome these two main set-backs, a truly strong force can be produced -As the
SM codex literally has so many options.

Thats just what i feel anyway.

Adielubbe hits i right on the button

SMs are really easy to play, but there is a major temptation for players to have a diverse force that can play any armie but not trounce anything. Jack o all trades master of none.

This is the army most space marine players play and consequently all players know how to beat.


This also means when a space marine player specilizes the opposing player may not know what to do.

SMs when played to the Max are an extreamly tough army to beat.

its when a Gunline army spends points on some bikes for the bikes sake that SMs fail to win.

SMs can specilize in any field. we must remember and do that to the situation

imweasel wrote:

Will wrote:OK. I've got a full 10 men assault squad with power fist and storm shield on the Sargent, along with a chaplain with jump pack. The whole thing comes to 345 points. What would be a better alternative?

The rest of the list is posted in the army list section here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/267071.page

How about 8 assault termies?

345 points? You cannot be serious...

Chaplin with jump pack is 115, 10 assault marine is 190, Sarge has power fist, 25, storm shield 15, so yeah the whole thing is 345. You can argue that the shield is a waste of points, so instead I can take a flamer for 10, and a melta bomb for 5, so it is still 345 for 11 models.

An alternative I'm considering is a captain with bike and relic blade for and five bikers with 2 melta guns. It's about the same points, but gives me another scoring unit...

How about:
5 Assualt Termies
1 Libby in TDA with SS, with Null zone and anything (preferably GOI or VOD)
-340 points

I would choose that over the squads you mentioned any day of the week...

Will wrote:

imweasel wrote:

Will wrote:OK. I've got a full 10 men assault squad with power fist and storm shield on the Sargent, along with a chaplain with jump pack. The whole thing comes to 345 points. What would be a better alternative?

The rest of the list is posted in the army list section here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/267071.page

How about 8 assault termies?

345 points? You cannot be serious...

Chaplin with jump pack is 115, 10 assault marine is 190, Sarge has power fist, 25, storm shield 15, so yeah the whole thing is 345. You can argue that the shield is a waste of points, so instead I can take a flamer for 10, and a melta bomb for 5, so it is still 345 for 11 models.

An alternative I'm considering is a captain with bike and relic blade for and five bikers with 2 melta guns. It's about the same points, but gives me another scoring unit...

You don't spend 345pts on 11 guys in power armor. Period. Anything is probably a better alternative than this, including not spending the 345pts and playing at a lower point level.

A pred maybe? They can do lots ofdamage depending on what you give them, just don't mix and match.

Predators are a great buy.

You can take out infantry and light vehicles with a Destructor.

The Annilator can pop tanks more reliably than a devestator squad.

Never mix and match sponsons

Assault marines can be fun, especially if you're the type to rotate units just for the fun of it (which IMHO is what Warhammer is about). It can't be just create a crazy killing machine designed to win tournaments. If the terrain will allow it, they can last enough for you to do something useful with them.

In my opinion though, In a competitive setting though they just sink too many points for something that can be done better by something else, be it anti-horde, anti-mech, or assault. 345pts is just too much for for something with a 3+ save even with a Chaplain. That's like the entire points total of a heavy or specialized slot. I sold my marines a few months ago but back then I would usually use them for casual games or for teaching newbies just so they have an idea of what a jump infantry is. But whatever the race, whatever the army, if they want to compete, I would usually tell them that 3+ just doesn't cut it with the amount of shooting nowadays (in the 90s or early 2k maybe). I told chaos players from my area to drop the lash-prince and go for the lash-sorcerer on a rhino (now they lasts till end game), told Tyranid players with heavy fexes not to leave home with their 2+ save, I even gunned down 2 Wraithlords with devourers just to show em what I mean... There just too much shooting going on.

@dpaul: I assume you mean Vanguard Marines and not Assault marines when you are talking about points. No AM squad is 345, while Vanguard definitely can be. Either that or your codex was all sorts of messed up...

JEB_Stuart wrote:@dpaul: I assume you mean Vanguard Marines and not Assault marines when you are talking about points. No AM squad is 345, while Vanguard definitely can be. Either that or your codex was all sorts of messed up...

I'm just going with what they said (check up top). It includes a chaplain but still 3+ save (edited previous post accordingly). Sorry for not clarifying. Still wouldn't use it in a tournament though but that's just my take.

I wonder if anyone has found a use for the Land Speeder storm, and the jamming beacon that goes with it, I'd think if space marines were truly a shooty army you'd see more of these.