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Green Blow Fly wrote:Is killing Tervigons that important? Sure they are spawning gak loads of termigaunts but if you have more immediate threats then you had better deal with them first. Termigaunts are basically a really cheap bubble wrap for the new Nidz. Vendettas at best can do three wounds per skimmer per turn. Nidz can bust Vendettas with ease if they move slow enough to fire three shots. I am thinking fight fire with fire.

G

I agree. T-fexes and Hive Guard go 1st, then I worry about Tervigons.

Nurglitch wrote:Speaking of the Lash of Submission, a thought occurred to me about more ways in which Chaos can murder Tervigons:

Typhus, Herald of Nurgle, in a Land Raider. The Land Raider tank shocks past the Termagants, disgorging the Herald where he can charge the Tervigon. He automatically casts Nurgle's Rot, just to murder some Termagants, because a single Wind of Chaos isn't going to do much to the Tervigon (well, maybe it could, depending on the number of Wounds the Tervigon has left), and its unlikely to affect the Tervigon.

Then he charges the Tervigon and reaps it with the Manreaper, casting Force Weapon on a successful wound, which he might get with 1D6+4A wounding on 4+ and ignoring armour saves (sure, 17% chance of getting into an argument with his esteemed instrument, but you just can't hire good help in this dimension).

If he has a retinue of Plague Marines or Possessed, then they can help assault the Tervigon, multi-charge the Termagants, and heroically die in his stead if he gets caught up in a labour dispute.

And with this, Typhus just got almost competitive, depending on your local meta.... Glad to see that codex creep can work in both directions.

But, really, Typhus is a pretty reasonable answer to most TMCs, provided he manages to hang out long enough to nail their hulking bug carcasses to a wall...

I've just put together some D-cannons and i roll a surprising amount of 6's to wound...
Failing that it will be massed firepower, force it to make enough saves and it will go down just like everything else, especially if its doomed.

but you won't roll 6s all the time and T6 will require most weapons to roll 6s to wound pieriod.

massed fire power would entail you making 10+ wounds to begin with and then hopeing it fails 6 armor saves, Doom is a good idea though

the problem is that weapons that will ignore its armor and wound it on a 4 or less will not be present in sufficient quantities to kill it AND all the other TMCs running around.

a scoring unit that spawns other scoring units for an unlimited number of times is way OP

Doesn't the Slaaneshi demon weapon instakill things it wounds without any sort of psychic test? I never thought I would see the day that became "good" but with so many multi wound models running around, it might become pretty handy.

With BolterStake Crossbows, I think the target still gets an armor save. You might be confusing it with the Power Stake, which wounds psykers on 2+ and is a power weapon, though two handed.

I do like the ideo of PBS with Hammer of Witches though. Next game I might put that on my firebase inquisitor and see how it works vs nids.

I'm pretty sure bolter-stake crossbows are Strength 3 AP 5 24" range Assault 2, but always wound on a 2+ and ignore armor when targeting psykers.

Psychers get no armor save from stake crossbows. Witch hunter I lords can be very dangerous to a single Nid MC.

Grey Templar wrote:but you won't roll 6s all the time and T6 will require most weapons to roll 6s to wound pieriod.

massed fire power would entail you making 10+ wounds to begin with and then hopeing it fails 6 armor saves, Doom is a good idea though

the problem is that weapons that will ignore its armor and wound it on a 4 or less will not be present in sufficient quantities to kill it AND all the other TMCs running around.

a scoring unit that spawns other scoring units for an unlimited number of times is way OP

Ahh but D-cannons always wound on a 2+ so i'll at least cause one wound. Failing that a wave serpent rush with guided wraithguard (also wounding on 2+ with 6 to insta-jib) would work just as well.

As for the wounding on a 4+ or less and ignoring saves and the lack thereof regarding quantity. *points at Eldar* if anything i'd say we had too much of those, considering how good out BS can be. The only thing i'm worried about it a swarm army, i wont hold up in CC so the more MC the better for me as they are faster to kill that their equivalent in gaunts and if they go swarm heavy the tervigon should be going rather quickly for lack of other things for my "tank-hunters" to kill.

I think I'd leave the D-Cannons to zot the little bugs, because although they aren't large blast, they will completely ignore any Toughness, Armour, or Feel No Pain that may be involved. The Wraithcannons seem better suited to zotting Monstrous Creatures, although considering the relationship between Tervigon and Termagant, it may be worthwhile just to fire into the crowd and see what happens.

The old "i can't miss" tactic, ill hit something at least.
Same for hawk grenade packs, not as effective but large blast has its advantages.

The problem is you better get in close fast, we did some counts as with a "Big Birthing Berthas' List , 5 tervigons averages out at 140 ish guants, our best in 5 turns was 238 extra guants. It's almost like taking a second army of straight gaunts. Concentrated fire seems the best bet, and if you have hi init models that can hurt it, rending, power claws, frost swords what have you, its you best chance, otherwise unless you can tank shock through the horde in front, you are never going to get close to do a thing to the terv.

doubled wrote:The problem is you better get in close fast, we did some counts as with a "Big Birthing Berthas' List , 5 tervigons averages out at 140 ish guants, our best in 5 turns was 238 extra guants. It's almost like taking a second army of straight gaunts. Concentrated fire seems the best bet, and if you have hi init models that can hurt it, rending, power claws, frost swords what have you, its you best chance, otherwise unless you can tank shock through the horde in front, you are never going to get close to do a thing to the terv.

But 5 tervigons can really do nothing to 5 (or even 3) fast-moving PotMS Land Raiders.

Oh.. and Monoliths with D6 str5 shots at every single unit within 12".. with the amount of squads (atleast 10) that generally want to stay close together.. so much damage will be dished out and there isn't much a tervigon can do to stop a monolith. Well, maybe some.

45 Lootas. Battlewagons with Deff Rollas carrying Burna squads. Nob Bikers or Trukkers with Big Choppas. Kannons! SAG Meks, Tankbustas, etc. As an Ork I'm not worried about Tervigons, because I have bajillions of effective counters, and my basic infantry can tear most Tyranids apart in CC. So the Boyz deal with the Gaunts, and the Nobz charge in to carve slices out of the big boyz. With 4 attacks at WS5, S7, hitting on I4, I'm fairly sure that even a small squad of Big Choppa Nobz can take out a Tervigon.

Say 5 Nobz and a Warboss in a trukk, WAC abused and all with Big Choppas; 25 attacks, 17 hits, 11 wounds, that's got a decent chance to put a Tervigon down in one round for well under 300 points.

A Deff Rolla BW carrying Burnas will probably put a wound on a Tervigon with a Tank Shock, and then you either drop 15 flamer templates or hop out and assault with 45 S4 PW attacks.

45 Lootas; 90 shots, 30 hits, 20 wounds, Tervigon bites the dust. Granted, they're expensive, but you can also split their fire and/or mop up smaller critters with them very easily.


2 SAG Meks will accomplish SOMETHING. They probably won't kill a Tervigon in one round, but they'll put wounds on it and scatter death amongst the gaunts surrounding it.

For a moment there I thought you were proposing all that as a single list

as for the warboss with BC nobz, I believe the Tervigon has a 3+ save, so it would only take an average of 3.6 wounds from the 25 attacks.

The only way the SAG would quickly kill a tervigon would be to get a hit with strength. Otherwise the blast template never causes more than a single wound on the Tervigon, it would take 3 rounds for 2 SAG Meks to kill a tervigon assuming they both hit and wound every round with no cover save.

They would work well against gants, at ap2 they will bypass the FNP. However they (along with lootas) are going to be prime targets for Mawlocs and Trygons.

one of the best ways to kill MCs i have found out is to tank shock them.

even if there is a penetrating hit there is a 40% chance that the MC will get flattened, 50% if the vehicle has extra armor. cheap ork trukks or rhinos can plough right through the TMCs

I tankshocked a Bio-titan once with a rhino, the titan over penetrated by 7 and ripped the storm bolter off It got squashed by a 35 pt transport EPIC FAIL

Um, why would any Tyranid player attempt Death or Glory when being tank-shocked? Fearless units simply don't need to be affected by tank shock.

I'd totally do a Death or Glory if they try and Tank Shock my Spore Pods.

Aduro:

Good point, but it isn't going to work with Tervigons.

Grey Templar wrote:
I tankshocked a Bio-titan once with a rhino, the titan over penetrated by 7 and ripped the storm bolter off It got squashed by a 35 pt transport EPIC FAIL

Now, when was our next Apocalypse match due? I have a Kunnin Plan...

3 groups of 8-9 fire dragons in wave serpents with eldrad catching a ride in 1 to doom 2 mcs and guide his group of dragons = 3 dead tervigons on your second shooting phase lol

mon-keigh slayer wrote:3 groups of 8-9 fire dragons in wave serpents with eldrad catching a ride in 1 to doom 2 mcs and guide his group of dragons = 3 dead tervigons on your second shooting phase lol

A 9-strong squad of fire-dragons who shoot at a doom'ed tervigon will take out about 3.8 wounds. Thats 7.7 wounds per two squads & if you include eldrads squad that bumps it up to a total of 12.8 wounds! But actually one should suffer about 5 wounds (from the doom'ed & guided squad) whilst the other will be over-killed by 1.7 wounds with the other two shooting. Still, thats neeearly dead tervigons.

Still, nearly 900pts of stuff to kill max 400pts of tervigon. And one should live! I'd also like to note, with that many firedragons and the likely number of gants on the field.. it may be tricky to get all within 12" range.

For those working out averages etc for wounding Tervigons, I would suggest assuming it's either in cover, or within 6" of a Venomthrope. Any I make would be

Just shoot a tervigon with heavy weapons. They are a great target for ac's.

It's a 3+ save. Throw in some ml's and it doesn't take much to kill a tervigon.

Now a tfex is a completely different story...

Autocannon Teams with Bring it Down Orders also multilasers work out decent too. Force the +3s and save the lascannons/meltas for the tyrants. Any smart player will make the tervigons run for cover. If he puts FNP on himself then hit him with meltas/lascannons and use the AC vs other MC.

Tau: Missile Pods and long range plasma
Dark Eldar: Darklances
Necrons: Destroyers
Sisters: Exorcists
DH: Allied guard, psycannons
Eldar: guided scatterlasers+doom = dead MC
Guard: mentioned above.
CSM: Oblits and Dakka Preadators
Marines: predators, rifleman dreads, landspeeders
Deamons: Bloodcrushers, flamers, skulltaker

Actually had my first experience playing against an army with a Tervigon this weekend.

When it spawned 11 gants in the first turn, I was kind of like "!"

But then two volleys of krak from a squadron of typhoons took it out before it could spawn any more, typhoons (like much Eldar shooting) having the advantage of being able to move 12" to shoot around the sides of what the Tervie had wanted to use as cover. Then a whirlwind shot took out most of the spawn that same turn, so overall pretty underwhelming.

I played a 2000 pt game against a Nid army last night that had a Tervigon in it. the tervigon spawned 15 gaunts, but was part of a doubles so that was the end of it.

I was playing a 3 LR grey knight list and the tervigon wasn't a threat. i was unable to kill it(regeneration), but it was only a minor anoyance.

the game was annilation and it was a tie with a slight VP favor toward the Nids.

I had previously thought, as a marine player, that Kor'sarro Khan was the most underappreciated special character, and the new Tyranid 'dex just furthers that thought.

Back-of-envelope calculation gives him about a 45% chance of killing a Tervigon in one round on the charge.

Edit:

It's a 44.5% chance of killing a Tervigon. Which is exactly the same chance he has of killing a Trygon, Trygon Prime, Mawloc, or Tyrannofex. He has a marginally better chance of killing a Carnifex, but the difference is too small to be worth figuring. He'll also swing before all of them, and if he fails has a really good shot of surviving a round of combat with any of them except the Carnifex.

The chance drops down to 35.3% against a Hive Tyrant, but he'll still strike first on the charge, and will probably survive unless the Tyrant has a form of Instant Death.

And it drops down to 19.2% against the Swarmlord, who will strike at the same time and probably kill him.

Hrm.

that could work very nicely.

and your calculation assumes he charges alone, and he will nearly 100% of the time have some bikers with him too.

The problem isn't with Khan, it's with getting him somewhere useful.

Either you're running a pretty considerable point investment in the bike command squad, or he's in a Land Raider (in which case his points in Terminators are more efficient in CC, and the Furious Charge buff is largely wasted).

Been wondering how to deal with the new 'Nids with my SoB. Taking 3 Exorcists looks to be the best way to smoosh their MC's but everyone cries cheese when i run that many.

I think i may have to ignore the crying from my bank account and put together the StJohn list (11 Immolators and silly amounts of melta). 'Gants should not be a problem with that many TL HF's driving around, and without their screen, Tervigons won't stand up to a few well placed melta blasts, not to mention the odd wound from a HF.

On a separate note, i do like how the new codex has made some 'untouchable' units worth considering again. I may even consider buying a Culexus for lulz