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Durandal wrote:If you move 6' and disembark, the TW plasma will put 2 wounds, and an extra from the lascannons. For a total of 3. So it wouldn't be wiped out in one round of shooting, but I assume the nid player must now choose to either assault a unit with enough fists to do 3 wounds, or spew more gaunts that will only be shot to death next turn.

Unless it can spawn and still assault?

Yes, it spawns every movement phase - even if it's in close combat. And I don't think you're taking into account the cover save that potential venomthropes will be giving these big nasties.

"Yes, it CAN spawn in every Movement...*snip*" is the correct answer.

Not saying they're the best unit in the game or anything, but they're not necessarily "EZ-mode" either.

I would also like to remind everyone that a Tervigon with the necessary Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, and Toxin Sacs upgrades and the normal upgrades of Crushing Claws and Regeneration, costs 250 points total. A Land Raider doesn't die to the first one or two lascannons and plasma guns either. A LR has more than 4x better ranged weapons than the Tervigon, can tank shock, and synergises with other troops by granting one unit and possibly a character more than double movement speed and safety into assault range. Tervigon on the other hand buffs nearby Gaunts immensely, grants FNP with a psychic test, creates a fresh unit or two and with claws isn't bad at all in close combat.

I'm gonna give some orky tactics that could work

Big Mek with SAG and hope for a double six? (nothing like sucking a monstrous creature into the warp!)

Zogwort's curse?

If not a mob of burnas in trukk could be a serious threat, drive up just out of assault range, let loose the flamer templates of doom and get rid of gaunts, next turn even if trukk goes boom can assault with power weapons!

Another ork tactic would be a paired assault. Two trukk mobs get out on opposite sides of the Tervigon. The first one shoots at and then assaults the gaunts. The mandatory 6" counter-charge of the 'gaunts provides the necessary gap for the second trukk mob to assault the Tervigon. Rules questions: after the charge moves the ork player could choose to resolve the tervigon assault first right?

What kind of save does a tervigon have?

Zogwort won't work, unless the Tervigon is an Independent Character. You'd be better off swamping it with boys- as far as I know it can't spawn units when there isn't anywhere to put them. Block off its deployment zone with the weight of your thick orky skullz while you wait for the powerklaw nob to do his deadly work.

It isn't a ranged spawn, is it?

Each model has to be placed within 6" of the Tervigon, if I remember correctly.

olympia wrote:Another ork tactic would be a paired assault. Two trukk mobs get out on opposite sides of the Tervigon. The first one shoots at and then assaults the gaunts. The mandatory 6" counter-charge of the 'gaunts provides the necessary gap for the second trukk mob to assault the Tervigon. Rules questions: after the charge moves the ork player could choose to resolve the tervigon assault first right?

Nope, doesn't work. The mandatory counter-charge movement doesn't come until "after all assault moves have been made." In 40K you can't pull units out of the way with assaults in order to allow a second unit to make an assault the same turn.

I think you could tank-shock the two trukks (with the upgrade that makes them able to tank shock) first one into the gants, then the other side-by-side with a <2" gap between them--the gants can't move into the gap because it would leave them within 1" of your models--and use that alleyway you've created to disembark and assault. Should work for any transports that have access on the sides.

Thanks Flavius. Do you know the save on the Tervigon, because at T6 the regular boyz are not going to hurt it after the initial assault.

Burnas I suppose. You declare the tervigon the target and flame the screening 'gaunts into ash thus leaving it clear for the burnas to assault the beast and with luck dish out 6 wounds on the first turn.

Lootas. Always make sure you play with elevated terrain and put fifteen lootas up in a ruin and let them blast away.

Acardia wrote:Marker lights to negate cover save, massed tau firepower to seal the deal. Use excess marketlight hits for seeker missles.

I guess these bugs are so tall that a Gaunt screen cannot give a cover save.

Flavius Infernus wrote:

olympia wrote:Another ork tactic would be a paired assault. Two trukk mobs get out on opposite sides of the Tervigon. The first one shoots at and then assaults the gaunts. The mandatory 6" counter-charge of the 'gaunts provides the necessary gap for the second trukk mob to assault the Tervigon. Rules questions: after the charge moves the ork player could choose to resolve the tervigon assault first right?

Nope, doesn't work. The mandatory counter-charge movement doesn't come until "after all assault moves have been made." In 40K you can't pull units out of the way with assaults in order to allow a second unit to make an assault the same turn.

I think you could tank-shock the two trukks (with the upgrade that makes them able to tank shock) first one into the gants, then the other side-by-side with a <2" gap between them--the gants can't move into the gap because it would leave them within 1" of your models--and use that alleyway you've created to disembark and assault. Should work for any transports that have access on the sides.

Falvius: I like your line of thinking. I will have to do this with my land raiders now to crack the impending tervigon-spam at my FLGS

I was initially thinking about a falcon dashing over the gaunt-screen and then unloading his fire dragons. ~ 1,6 wounds by the falcon (assuming pulse laser, shuriken cannon and scatter laser) and ~4 wounds by the six fire dragons. Well, that doesn't necessarily kill that guy... So maybe it's not the best tactic but would pretty much circumvent a possible FNP.

Greets
Schepp himself

My problem with these stupid nids is that they can have 5 in a 15000 point army. Thats 15D6 new gaunts poping out every movement phase that are scoring units and DON'T count for victory points. Already fought them in the local tourney, needless to say it was a clean sweep for him all the way through.

Without an official model, you can bet that there will be those that model them low enough to the ground that gaunts will indeed provide cover saves. Even for a truely monstrous creature scale model, there is always the Venomthrope.

I would like to say this is a place for Tau to shine with railguns and markerlights, but the sad fact of the matter is it would two full pathfinder teams and three full squads of broadsides to pretty much guarantee killing a tervigon every round

Strimen wrote:My problem with these stupid nids is that they can have 5 in a 15000 point army. Thats 15D6 new gaunts poping out every movement phase that are scoring units and DON'T count for victory points. Already fought them in the local tourney, needless to say it was a clean sweep for him all the way through.

Well, yea but at 15,000 points you aught to be able to field more than enough lascannons to deal with things

Vehicles seem to have a strong advantage to dealing with the buggers. Any Leman Russ or even rhino chasis tank should have its turret a good bit higher than gaunt bodies, so at anything other than extreme range that MC won't be 50% covered. Personally, I think the LR Executioner will be the way to go even more vs nids than it already is against everything else, given that 3-5 plasma wounds on MCs is a really solid way to deal with them (Wound on 3+, no armor or FNP) as well as wrecking swarm units.

I had a great deal of luck with Exorcists last weekend vs nids, but then "Play Sisters" is hardly a strong tactical decision In general though using your flamers and bolters to clear the gaunts and then dropping a unit with fist equivalents seems to do the trick. They are not terribly scary in melee, and all the weapons you take to rock Carnies (fists, frost blades etc.) work just as well against them, though it might take a little longer.

I hope like crazy that you meant 5 in a 1500pt army. If they do that, they are going to be extremely hard pressed to kill vehicles of any kind really. It won't matter much about the Gants if you're meched up. Also Missile Launchers/Lascannons can push right through Tervigons if you focus your fire on them. I would be a lot less scared of a 5 Tervigon army than I would be of an army with a Tervigon or two and then the tools to counter the dangerous things you can put on the table (like Hive Guard, Zoanthropes, Deathleaper, maybe Tyrannofexes, etc etc).

Head over here, guys: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/275046.page#1268574

GW has ruled that Furious Charge no longer works with Counter-Charge, as it should be. So at least now there's a hope of plowing through the gant screen.

Kveldulv wrote:Head over here, guys: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/275046.page#1268574

GW has ruled that Furious Charge no longer works with Counter-Charge, as it should be. So at least now there's a hope of plowing through the gant screen.

Yup, thats a huge change. Reducing the little guys to 1 I4 attack instead of 2 I5 attacks when you charge them is an amazing difference. Not getting the charge and trying to kill the Tervigon with fearless resolution is viable for the right units unless a Venomthrope is hanging out nearby.

Don't have the tyranid codex, but does the lost of furious charge on the counter-charge affect the gant poison? Somebody mentioned that further up...

Most certainly. They aren't Str 4 when charged without FC, so will not get re-rolls to wound against SM, Orks, and other T4+ armies

PanzerLeader wrote:

Kveldulv wrote:Head over here, guys: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/275046.page#1268574

GW has ruled that Furious Charge no longer works with Counter-Charge, as it should be. So at least now there's a hope of plowing through the gant screen.

Yup, thats a huge change. Reducing the little guys to 1 I4 attack instead of 2 I5 attacks when you charge them is an amazing difference. Not getting the charge and trying to kill the Tervigon with fearless resolution is viable for the right units unless a Venomthrope is hanging out nearby.

It's still 2 attacks - counter-attack doesn't change. The init/strength change is significant, though, and you're right - this probably makes the Venomthrope a better deal for a Tervigon cluster; defensive grenades and dangerous terrain are handy.

Snipers can always work.

Also load of a valk/vend with either a CCS or a vet squad fly it over and rapid fire with plasma guns. If its a CCS or you are within range you can issue fire on my target to the unit. The vet squad should do about 4 wounds, while the CCS should do 5 if my math hammer is correct.

Grey knight Lord or brother captain Stern owns nid MCs now since they don't have EW anymore. STR 6 Force weapon

Lash him out of cover and shoot

Chaos lord with blissgiving in CC.

Janthkin wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:

Kveldulv wrote:Head over here, guys: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/275046.page#1268574

GW has ruled that Furious Charge no longer works with Counter-Charge, as it should be. So at least now there's a hope of plowing through the gant screen.

Yup, thats a huge change. Reducing the little guys to 1 I4 attack instead of 2 I5 attacks when you charge them is an amazing difference. Not getting the charge and trying to kill the Tervigon with fearless resolution is viable for the right units unless a Venomthrope is hanging out nearby.

It's still 2 attacks - counter-attack doesn't change. The init/strength change is significant, though, and you're right - this probably makes the Venomthrope a better deal for a Tervigon cluster; defensive grenades and dangerous terrain are handy.

Yup, mistyped the number of attacks. My bad. But the loss of rerolls against T4 and the loss of I5 makes gaunts play a little more aggressive if they want to survive the counter attack.

Speaking of the Lash of Submission, a thought occurred to me about more ways in which Chaos can murder Tervigons:

Typhus, Herald of Nurgle, in a Land Raider. The Land Raider tank shocks past the Termagants, disgorging the Herald where he can charge the Tervigon. He automatically casts Nurgle's Rot, just to murder some Termagants, because a single Wind of Chaos isn't going to do much to the Tervigon (well, maybe it could, depending on the number of Wounds the Tervigon has left), and its unlikely to affect the Tervigon.

Then he charges the Tervigon and reaps it with the Manreaper, casting Force Weapon on a successful wound, which he might get with 1D6+4A wounding on 4+ and ignoring armour saves (sure, 17% chance of getting into an argument with his esteemed instrument, but you just can't hire good help in this dimension).

If he has a retinue of Plague Marines or Possessed, then they can help assault the Tervigon, multi-charge the Termagants, and heroically die in his stead if he gets caught up in a labour dispute.

Nurglitch wrote:Speaking of the Lash of Submission, a thought occurred to me about more ways in which Chaos can murder Tervigons:

Typhus, Herald of Nurgle, in a Land Raider. The Land Raider tank shocks past the Termagants, disgorging the Herald where he can charge the Tervigon. He automatically casts Nurgle's Rot, just to murder some Termagants, because a single Wind of Chaos isn't going to do much to the Tervigon (well, maybe it could, depending on the number of Wounds the Tervigon has left), and its unlikely to affect the Tervigon.

Then he charges the Tervigon and reaps it with the Manreaper, casting Force Weapon on a successful wound, which he might get with 1D6+4A wounding on 4+ and ignoring armour saves (sure, 17% chance of getting into an argument with his esteemed instrument, but you just can't hire good help in this dimension).

If he has a retinue of Plague Marines or Possessed, then they can help assault the Tervigon, multi-charge the Termagants, and heroically die in his stead if he gets caught up in a labour dispute.

Don't forget you'll be making that psychic test for the force weapon on 3d6 (and any other psychic power for that matter), unless he has something that prevents that.

Can't forget that, but he has an invulnerable save (not a good invulnerable save, but it helps) and W4. If the Tervigon was injured before he started, it's likely the Force Weapon won't be necessary.

Nurglitch wrote:Speaking of the Lash of Submission, a thought occurred to me about more ways in which Chaos can murder Tervigons:

Typhus, Herald of Nurgle, in a Land Raider. The Land Raider tank shocks past the Termagants, disgorging the Herald where he can charge the Tervigon. He automatically casts Nurgle's Rot, just to murder some Termagants, because a single Wind of Chaos isn't going to do much to the Tervigon (well, maybe it could, depending on the number of Wounds the Tervigon has left), and its unlikely to affect the Tervigon.

Then he charges the Tervigon and reaps it with the Manreaper, casting Force Weapon on a successful wound, which he might get with 1D6+4A wounding on 4+ and ignoring armour saves (sure, 17% chance of getting into an argument with his esteemed instrument, but you just can't hire good help in this dimension).

If he has a retinue of Plague Marines or Possessed, then they can help assault the Tervigon, multi-charge the Termagants, and heroically die in his stead if he gets caught up in a labour dispute.

You'll want to clear the 'gants first - a careful player won't give you any way to tank shock & disembark. Bonus points for finding a use for Typhus, though!

A number of things

Rending:

Auto-Wound AP 2 is pretty sure to knock off some wounds, I'd think.

High S Weapons:

Plasmas (To a degree) Las-Cannons, Meltas, etc. Should do a pretty good job of shaving off some wounds. Damn that T6 though.

Instant Death:

As far as I'm aware, I don't think Tervigons have access to Eternal Warrior, so any weapon which causes ID should kill it in one (literally) fatal swoop.

And finally: TH/SS Termies.

Cryonicleech:

Yeah, that's all strategy. This thread is about tactics.

Although the thought of floating a squadron of Land Speeders with Assault Cannons nearby to the Tervigon and cutting loose has occurred to me from a strategic perspective since the Land Speeders would avoid any cover save from intervening Termagants.

Force weapons is where Deathleaper helps out.

Seriously though, tactics wise, I don't plan on fielding my tervigons (I think my list has 2 right now, but I'm playing with 3) without Venomthropes right behind them.