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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:It has to do with your statement they won't make money out of it.

Which is quite clearly a patently silly statement. But of course, this is the Interwebs where the whingers definitely know best.

33 additional missions appeals to a lot of gamers. Just re-read the thread and have a dissent/approval count.

So you are saying the couple of dozen folks in here saying it's good is enough to make them money?

And I never said they wouldn't make money off of it.

The statement was meant to say 'they could have spent the time and money on something that would make them more money than this stinking pile of feces'.

sourclams wrote:Planet Strike part 2: Battle Missions is going the same way. 16 year olds could have thought up better 'unique missions/bonuses' than what made it into the book. Do you really think any of this is new or innovative?

Then make up your own rules and just don't use the Battle Mission rules. It's that simple.

sourclams wrote:'Imperial Guard infantry get a 4+ cover save if they just hold still, forever.' This is the exact issue that the new codex fixed; IG were a static, immobile, dull army. Did GW really just give us special rules to turn our new dynamic, interactive codex back into the un-fun Wall-o-Men? This is the easiest one to pick on but the vast majority of the race-specific stuff is just as stupid. Oftentimes balance and creativity have to teeter-totter a bit to find the point that is the most fun for all participants to be involved in, but this book really seems to have swung to the point that gives the least yield in both areas.

A) As it's been said, we don't know if there are any drawbacks to that mission, whether explicit (can't move or they lose it) or more subtle (placement of objectives forces you to move eventually)

B) Run incredibly rare and unknown tactics such as "Buy flamers", "Use ordinance", "Assault with grenades" or such unspeakable acts like "Drop loads of shooting wounds and force saves on T3 models". The choice is yours.

C)

bhsman wrote:You don't have to rules for tournaments. You don't have to use the rules for pickup games. You don't have to use the rules for a friendly game. You can politely turn down an offer to play a game against someone who does want to use them. You don't have to use the rules period; just rework them to fit the scenario or feelings of your local group. You don't have to buy it, read it, or even make whiny posts about it theorizing about how people will take advantage of it if you don't want to. You don't even have to think about them. So chill.

If you want to post about what changes could be made to the Battle Mission rules to make them more balanced, then start that thread, and I will happily give you some ideas. Until then, this is probably the wrong place.

imweasel wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:It has to do with your statement they won't make money out of it.

Which is quite clearly a patently silly statement. But of course, this is the Interwebs where the whingers definitely know best.

33 additional missions appeals to a lot of gamers. Just re-read the thread and have a dissent/approval count.

So you are saying the couple of dozen folks in here saying it's good is enough to make them money?

And I never said they wouldn't make money off of it.

The statement was meant to say 'they could have spent the time and money on something that would make them more money than this stinking pile of feces'.

If we go by the attitude that the interwebz = worldwide fanbase than we have to assume that GW will still make money. The ones happy with the missions book outweight the ones against it; not only here but on Warseer and on B&C.

imweasel wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:It has to do with your statement they won't make money out of it.

Which is quite clearly a patently silly statement. But of course, this is the Interwebs where the whingers definitely know best.

33 additional missions appeals to a lot of gamers. Just re-read the thread and have a dissent/approval count.

So you are saying the couple of dozen folks in here saying it's good is enough to make them money?

And I never said they wouldn't make money off of it.

The statement was meant to say 'they could have spent the time and money on something that would make them more money than this stinking pile of feces'.

Like perhaps create a single model for a single army, instead of a single book which every 40k player in the world can use? Good call skip. Good call. Books will also be a damned sight cheaper to develop than a model, simply because it doesn't require a mould to be made. Just some plates for the print house whenever they need a re-print. (from my experience in print, this isn't always strictly necessary, but plates are relatively inexpensive)

A-P wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Nope. Deadly serious.

.......OK. I REALLY want know want the devs were smoking, so I can avoid it like the plague. They actually expect people to pay money for this? "Cut little pieces of paper and then drop them on the table"? Great Cthulhu eat me now...

WHEN I PLAY WITH MY TOY SOLDIERS I ONLY WANT ABSOLUTE SERIOUSNESS. LOOK AT HOW I INVOKED CTHULU IN MY POST, IT'S HOW YOU KNOW I'M TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AS A TOTALLY SERIOUS ADULT. SERIOUSLY.



I've glanced through the book and it looks neat, it'll probably be a good play aid when looking for alternatives to dawn of war tie mission.

sourclams wrote:I was excited for Planetstrike. I thought it'd be a new, innovative, and dynamic way of playing 40k. I thought that bastions, walls, and fortifications would change the game. Turns out that the supplement that introduced these things also invalidates them on the first few pages when everything is free to deepstrike into the middle of your gazillion-point fortress of doom.

To this day, I have never seen one single game of Planetstrike played at my store. It was a fantastic opportunity for increased playability that designer failure ruined.

Planet Strike part 2: Battle Missions is going the same way. 16 year olds could have thought up better 'unique missions/bonuses' than what made it into the book. Do you really think any of this is new or innovative?

'Imperial Guard infantry get a 4+ cover save if they just hold still, forever.' This is the exact issue that the new codex fixed; IG were a static, immobile, dull army. Did GW really just give us special rules to turn our new dynamic, interactive codex back into the un-fun Wall-o-Men? This is the easiest one to pick on but the vast majority of the race-specific stuff is just as stupid. Oftentimes balance and creativity have to teeter-totter a bit to find the point that is the most fun for all participants to be involved in, but this book really seems to have swung to the point that gives the least yield in both areas.

Well,IG were always a static,immobile,army before their most recent codex...and also one of the most popular armies in 40k. Some people enjoy playing a massive gunline army,so the mission makes sense from a "throwback" standpoint.

The book isn't intended to be "new" or "innovative." It's intended to break up the monatany of playing the same 3 missions in the rulebook over and over again. Sure,you can write your own missions,if you feel like it. Heck,you could just write your own codices and/or base rules if you were willing to sink the time into it. But a lot of people don't have that much time or don't have the rules accumen to be able to do that. Is it a little janky that Missions is focused around race specific missions that used to come in individual codices? A little. I would've preferred to see more than 3 "generic" missions,myself. But it still doesn't mean the book is without merit.

I was hoping for some sort of "dig in" option in the new codex, and now I get it! I'm happy. Also IG art in the new book should be nice.

EDIT: And I'm sorry everyone's mechvets couldn't get a mission to make them better

So the order of armies never to see light of day again now goes like this:

1. Squats

2. DH/WH

3. Dark Eldar

I'm quite confident that at least one of those should not be on the list.

Whatever1 wrote:
The book isn't intended to be "new" or "innovative." It's intended to break up the monatany of playing the same 3 missions in the rulebook over and over again.

funny that. And I thought it was pure chance that the mission section in the current rulebook sucked...

It's almost like they had this planned all along...

And because people seem to somehow want to defend it: The current KP system sucks ass... Lets be honest...

I'm just happy that there will be more than 3 missions that'll be possible as pick up in store games now.

And yeah, KP's don't work quite right.

Well,IG were always a static,immobile,army before their most recent codex...and also one of the most popular armies in 40k.

That must only be in the US then. Absolutely noone played IG here before the current codex and that's about a decade of the army being much less popular than Dark Eldar. IG still has rather awful models overall because the Chimera chassis tanks and Leman Russ tanks are hopelessly outdated, and the new tank kits are outright laughable 'upgrades'. IG still only have the Cadians as plastic infantry and they got a scale problem. Seriously the only reason IG has gained popularity is because the army is much more mobile and much more powerful than before, so I wholeheartedly agree with Sourclams' sentiment about the mission making no sense at all.

Sorry, but as an old time IG player (4th Ed) who likes a gunline (11 auto cannons & 9 las cannons) who use Catachans (not Cadians) who likes the Russ and Chimera (It's meant to look klunky) but who is also quite happy to make his own variant Hydra, Manticore etc. I am looking forward to some(ready made) new missions to add variety to my games. As a player of at least 4 armies I don't mind them being race specific either.

Heh, been playing IG since 2nd myself, and while they have gone up and down in popularity over the years, they've never been to the "Absolutely noone played IG here before the current codex and that's about a decade of the army being much less popular than Dark Eldar" stage. And yeah, I like my gunline...............

BrassScorpion wrote:

So the order of armies never to see light of day again now goes like this:

1. Squats

2. DH/WH

3. Dark Eldar

I'm quite confident that at least one of those should not be on the list.

Squats in 2011!

So the order of armies never to see light of day again now goes like this:

1. Squats

2. DH/WH

3. Dark Eldar

i've played against quite a few armies of DH/WH and DE..squats are out and have been out, but it seems to me the other armies will have enough players to atleast keep them stocked for online ordering

Sad if WH/DH go, ive a full army of each, including my only FW stuff. money wasted, but i suppose i can always just play then anyway with the old codex.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:It has to do with your statement they won't make money out of it.

Which is quite clearly a patently silly statement. But of course, this is the Interwebs where the whingers definitely know best.

33 additional missions appeals to a lot of gamers. Just re-read the thread and have a dissent/approval count.

I know they'll make some money out of it, just like Planetstrike. And just like Planetstrike (and Cities of Death), I'm pretty sure that they'll see all their sales volume peak at release and drop away to nothing over the next year, because players will realize that they can think up better rules/mechanics/scenarios on their own. It's not about making more than $0, it's about maximizing revenue. If there's 5 games in your FLGS on Saturday, how many are CoD or Planetstrike scenarios? The answer at my store is 0.

Fateweaver wrote:We also don't know how the missions AS A WHOLE play out. 4+ cover save to IG if they don't move. Let's assume an objective mission. Now, UNLESS you happen to deploy your entire army on all the objectives those IG are moving at some point (some of them anyway).

So you can play the mission and lose your bonus, or play your bonus and lose the mission? How is that not designer fail?

It might cost GW 10,000GBP. If they make money on it (and they will as Defiler just pointed out Dakka =/= world market than it isn't a WASTE of money.

It all hinges on how you define winning. If a business decision makes ROGI, it's generally a winner. If it makes ROGI when it could have made ROGI+2, then it's not nearly as good a winner. At least, that's how it works in my world.

Planetstrike games are fun and seriously, if you actually played PS you'd know that wrecking a bastion, which is NORMALLY an objective (it doesn't have to be) does not keep it from being an objective. So DS armies won't just "auto-win" because they blew up every bastion that's an objective.

It has nothing to do with being an objective or not, or winning or not. It has everything to do with building the Great Wall of China after all the Mongolians got rocket hang-gliders. The very structure of the game invalidates the new mechanics that it was supposed to introduce, which sounds like design failure to me.

But that's okay. It wouldn't be the interwebs if people weren't allowed to spew hatred toward something they know very little or nothing about.

In my store, nobody plays CoD or Planetstrike. Because they are lame and un-fun. I wish I played in fanboi land where all the lame and not-fun supplements suddenly were.

I may have missed the info in the different threads but does anyone know what the mission rules are for Kill Team are?

In my store, nobody plays CoD or Planetstrike. Because they are lame and un-fun. I wish I played in fanboi land where all the lame and not-fun supplements suddenly were.

Apparently I do. We played cities of death for years after it came out, apoc games are still regular, and planetstrike gets some play as well. I guess you're just better than everyone else, though.

CoD is one of the better supplements, I think. I 've much less time for Apocalypse or Planetstrike.

New missions are new missions. It's fun to switch things up a bit. This looks great and I'll buy a copy.

BrassScorpion wrote:

So the order of armies never to see light of day again now goes like this:
1. Squats
2. DH/WH
3. Dark Eldar

I'm quite confident that at least one of those should not be on the list.

I'm guessing your exclusion will be Squats?

You got it, Squats are coming back for sure. And I had to go and sell mine a few years ago.

I had a look at the book today and it looks like fun. Building the missions on themes for certain armies was colorful, yet of course any mission can easily be adapted for other armies as desired.

I also had a look at the new sprues for the Orks and the Ven Dread. Great work all around with tons of decorative and equipment options.

in the duel do the named characters get protection from psykers? i've got visions of calgar being turned into a squig by zagsnap (or whatever his name is, the ork wierdboy SC) and having to kill him as a squig

Oh, and by the way thread (YOU), I am usually quite patently (thanks mad dock) cynical about expansions like these. I only really play standard 40k, between 1500-2000 points against one other person as a rule to maximize my game experience against time available - however, this books sounds very interesting to me.

So chalk up another usual dissenter thinking even this thing is a good idea.

I can also see many, many more people who are much, much less cynical than myself thinking it's a great idea.

The book is going to sell.

I'm ultimately indifferent as I'm gravitating more to the Paint and not play side of the fence.

totally excited go go kill team!

Also someone asked about the last DE mission if I recall correctly on warseer they said the last DE mission was perma nightfight that only ends on a 6. roll each time at end of either players turn. Don't remember what other rules the mission has though.

It'd be nice if they gave some more tourney-ready balanced missions in the book. I'll still buy the thing. Of course, I got the Planetstrike book, none of the terrain, and have played no PS games ever. But, I'll still the thing, because it makes for good reading material in my Fortress of Solitude (aka, the bathroom, which is about the only way to escape my kids).

dietrich wrote:It'd be nice if they gave some more tourney-ready balanced missions in the book. I'll still buy the thing. Of course, I got the Planetstrike book, none of the terrain, and have played no PS games ever. But, I'll still the thing, because it makes for good reading material in my Fortress of Solitude (aka, the bathroom, which is about the only way to escape my kids).

Think this book will be less terrain orientated...

...and to be honest what's to stop you playing planetstrike without buying the terrain released at the time? You only have to define objectives in the game and these don't have to be bastions, defence lines, landing pads etc.

I got to play one of the ork missions. The way it's supposed to work is that orks stay farther from the board edge and have to take out more guys than you and then run away. How it really ended up working is that it was a kill points game where orks get to start @ 24 inches from the board and rush you. To be fair, some of the other missions that a read about seemed like a lot of fun.