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Hi LadyCassandra

On the Birthing of gods, to my knowledge the birth of the other 3 major gods has never been covered in 40k...?

The when/how of Khorne etc is a bit fuzzy now since the Old one fluff and the transformation of the warp from peaceful into a warzone . (It used to be we could assume they were always there and grew slowly from all the races collective consciousness , but that's clearly not the case under the new fluff)

It is a very interesting question as to why Slaanesh caused the eye of terror when none of the other gods caused anything. You could suggest that the older gods were born under the Old one's supervision as weapons for the warp, and without their guidance any new birthing will be chaotic and tear the fabric between reality and immaterium.
*nods convincingly*

However I'm not sitting with any reference text so my memory of what the old ones did in the war with the C'tan could be a bit hazy.

The Old Ones didn't create the Chaos Gods and it's quite possible (even likely) that they had no idea they even existed until the daemons broke free of the warp and destroyed everyone. The answer to your question is that the birth of the other 3 gods was fairly gradual and primarily caused by humans, whereas Slaanesh was birthed from a vast concentration of depravity from the most powerful psyker race in the galaxy, the Eldar. That's why Slaanesh's birth caused the cataclysmic event it did, in the place it did (the Eldar's empire was situated where the Eye of Terror is today)

LadyCassandra wrote:Sersi: I just realised, my old Daemon Prince model has a OOP metal daemonette in it. Would you like that as a swap? It doesn't have it's original right arm though, I'm not sure if I have it hanging around somewhere...





.. you're welcome to keep the tentacle arm and SWORD OF DHOOM though.

This daemonette rock! i'd like to see a clo9se up of it! or a biggest one!

MasterDRD wrote:The Old Ones didn't create the Chaos Gods and it's quite possible (even likely) that they had no idea they even existed until the daemons broke free of the warp and destroyed everyone. The answer to your question is that the birth of the other 3 gods was fairly gradual and primarily caused by humans, whereas Slaanesh was birthed from a vast concentration of depravity from the most powerful psyker race in the galaxy, the Eldar. That's why Slaanesh's birth caused the cataclysmic event it did, in the place it did (the Eldar's empire was situated where the Eye of Terror is today)

What's the source? Humans are a bit young in 40k terms to have birthed the chaos gods surely (even if they are the main power source at present) - it requires humans to be widespread across the galaxy [creating the first 3] by the time of the fall of the Eldar.

The old fluff always suggested (imo) that the Fall occurred before humans were worth mentioning.


I'm not saying that GW hasn't made what you said fluff, I just haven't come across it before . I've been out of the loop a few years though.

Necron codex. Humans were one of the created races and it was mainly their wild emotions that allowed the Chaos Gods to form.

Sersi's torso arrived today! I think it should probably work, with a bit of greenstuffing to sync the proportions. Now all I need to do is buy one for peanuts off eBay. But I haven't finished my Whispers... I shouldn't do things out of order else that ruins my self-motivational tactics. :( What do?

Well, I've been working on my Chained figure again, and now have done the mount, the metal (apart from the chain, which I fixed), the eyes, the hair and the gems. Comments, as always, very welcome . Still to go; chain, more concrete dust, and the frost effect on the loincloth.









On a side note, I have another army, my Wood Eldar (Exodites) which I work on ... very occasionally. I'm thinking about starting a new blog for them but I work on them so rarely I'm not sure it's worth it. Regardless, have a Wraithlord, Exodite style!

That Wraithlord is awesome!!

The paint on the whisper(?) is also great, espeially the mount, thats got a really brutal look to it.

Great work

I like the wraithlord - I would love to see an exodite thread, let us know if your going to

Like the blue, glowing eyes on the Daemonette... Terrific!!!

As for the Wraithlord... That's a really original idea, full of character!! Special +1 for using HE ballista!!!

MasterDRD wrote:The Old Ones didn't create the Chaos Gods and it's quite possible (even likely) that they had no idea they even existed until the daemons broke free of the warp and destroyed everyone. The answer to your question is that the birth of the other 3 gods was fairly gradual and primarily caused by humans, whereas Slaanesh was birthed from a vast concentration of depravity from the most powerful psyker race in the galaxy, the Eldar. That's why Slaanesh's birth caused the cataclysmic event it did, in the place it did (the Eldar's empire was situated where the Eye of Terror is today)

Khorne, Teezentch, and Nurgle are pretty well timeless. Its only their current incarnations that reflect the overwhelming psychic presence of Humanity. The warp is a reflection of the current psychic/emotional state of our dimension....hence when the Eldar perversity was the defining point of mortal emotion you got a Slaanesh-hole. There are innumerable Daemons, Demi-gods, Arch-Daemons, etc that dwel in the Warp. Its conceivable that other powers will rise to the level of prominence that the 4 ruinous powers hold today.


Basic Wraithlord structure looks good, and I like the elven touches. Might wanna do some serious smoothing around the joins and trimmed area's though. I had a nasty suprise when drybrushing a rough cut conversion without smoothed joins.

Vitruvian XVII wrote:The paint on the whisper(?) is also great, espeially the mount, thats got a really brutal look to it.

Thanks for the praise, indeed she is the leader (Chained one) of the Whispers group (counts-as Seekers), but if you say Seekers, I'll know what you're on about . Brutal look is puzzling me however, how so? I've had comments regarding "neon" and so on, I was going for black with blue extreme highlights. The current paintjob isn't what I was aiming for but I think it looks really unique and very eerie.

weetyskemian44 wrote:I like the wraithlord - I would love to see an exodite thread, let us know if your going to

I wish, wish, wish we had more fluff about the Exodites. As it is, I am currently frozen in development, locked in indecision about the direction of the army and it's play- and painting-style. Did Exodites lose their tech or not, which tech, do they have Aspect Warriors or not, what do they have instead, how do you do an Eldar counts-as army without Aspect Warriors , and how does wraithbone work anyway? Do Exodites have access to wraithbone, how do their world spirits work. Gah! It drives me mad :(. As it is, I have my Pathfinders and my Wraithlord, both of which have taken severe flak for being either too techy, or not techy enough. Some of my friends think the Pathfinders should have normal wooden bows, some think they should have proper Ranger sniper rifles. I compromised and gave them power-bows of a sort, but am still a little unsure about the look.

To cut a long story short, however, until I get the Exodites sorted out in my head, there won't be any thread for them as I doubt I'll be doing any extra work.

Yggdrasil wrote:Like the blue, glowing eyes on the Daemonette... Terrific!!!

As for the Wraithlord... That's a really original idea, full of character!! Special +1 for using HE ballista!!!

I was beginning to think no-one had noticed the glowing eyes. Product of an excellent tutorial from CMON, the mount also has the effect but it's slightly less obvious with the extreme highlighting and black basecoat. I love bows and wanted as many bows, rather than guns, in my Exodite army as possible. When it came to wondering what Wraithlord-sized bows would suit it, the HE ballista came to mind . It was a remarkably simple conversion, the only real headache was the bark texture and getting the legs to try to match up to the Ent ones.

agroszkiewicz wrote:Basic Wraithlord structure looks good, and I like the elven touches. Might wanna do some serious smoothing around the joins and trimmed area's though. I had a nasty suprise when drybrushing a rough cut conversion without smoothed joins.

I tried my best to smooth the joins between the Ent legs and the Wraithlord hips, however I didn't even have colour shapers back then so it could perhaps do with a little more love and care. The rest of it is mostly discrete armour plates so I'm not quite as worried about that. Actually, now I think about it, I think giving you guys a non-basecoated version of the Wraithlord might help point out any problems.



In other news, I am not happy with the Chained's metal AT ALL and after poring through ridiculous amounts of true metallic and NMM tutorials, I have a concept picture I made to give me some direction on how to shade it properly. Please note I will be using metallics and glazes, not NMM . Do you think I got the light and shadow right? I still can't work it out logically.

Sorry, meant brutal as in awesome and really kinda' scary and alien!

Wouldn't have the faintest idea about NMM but that picture looks plausible to my untrained eye

Woodlord looks nice. If you wanted to get it smoother you could finger press some REALLY thing "skins" and layer them onto the rough spots. Spit on your fingers and then very very lightly and patiently smooth em. I find this to be much less frustrating than using scultping tools on a join.


Really dig the leaves and vines on the tabard!

The blade looks fine....badab black on silver based metallics (Chainmail, Boltgun Metal, etc) gives a very nice finish...you can also mix 1:1 Asuremen Blue and Devlan Mud for an oily look.

agroszkiewicz wrote:

MasterDRD wrote:The Old Ones didn't create the Chaos Gods and it's quite possible (even likely) that they had no idea they even existed until the daemons broke free of the warp and destroyed everyone. The answer to your question is that the birth of the other 3 gods was fairly gradual and primarily caused by humans, whereas Slaanesh was birthed from a vast concentration of depravity from the most powerful psyker race in the galaxy, the Eldar. That's why Slaanesh's birth caused the cataclysmic event it did, in the place it did (the Eldar's empire was situated where the Eye of Terror is today)

Khorne, Teezentch, and Nurgle are pretty well timeless. Its only their current incarnations that reflect the overwhelming psychic presence of Humanity. The warp is a reflection of the current psychic/emotional state of our dimension....hence when the Eldar perversity was the defining point of mortal emotion you got a Slaanesh-hole. There are innumerable Daemons, Demi-gods, Arch-Daemons, etc that dwel in the Warp. Its conceivable that other powers will rise to the level of prominence that the 4 ruinous powers hold today.


Basic Wraithlord structure looks good, and I like the elven touches. Might wanna do some serious smoothing around the joins and trimmed area's though. I had a nasty suprise when drybrushing a rough cut conversion without smoothed joins.

It's entirely possible that GW will retcon this when they release the new Necron codex, but it specifically says that the Warp was perfectly calm before the Old Ones made all those psychically powerful races. There were no Chaos Gods before that.

Your wraithlord idea and the actual presentation of the model are fantastic! I love the crossbow and the feet....or stumps. Great work, I would love to see that painted in the next month!

that wraithlord is really bada**!! GreAT work!

MasterDRD wrote:
It's entirely possible that GW will retcon this when they release the new Necron codex, but it specifically says that the Warp was perfectly calm before the Old Ones made all those psychically powerful races. There were no Chaos Gods before that.

Warp was calm because the Necrontyr were calm....its a reflection of mortal emotions and dreams. Once they became Necron of course there was no emotional content to "form" the entities in the warp.

Its sort of like a line from the WD Daemon release issue, went something like "The reason a Bloodletter looks like a Bloodletter is because mortals have an entrenched idea of what a daemon is, in their own dimension things are more flexible than your mere physical form".

Lack of manifestation doesn't mean the Warp is empty, just that its not in the current 40k state....its mutable. Immeasurably ancient and immeasurably mutable.



Not disagreeing with yah, as I've read the Necron 'dex....its good stuff. I just subscribe to the old "Realms of Chaos" take on things, that being that the Warp is not only the source of immeasurable power, but that it is completely and totally alien. Hell, it wasn't even "evil" back in the dim days of antiquity but with the grimdark running rampant it became that way.

I wasn't around back in those days so I go by what the books say. Of course what the books say has a nasty tendency to change completely, but such is life with 40K...

Wicked sweet models, the original pic of this all, with the black and grays is artful, and wicked!

And that Exodite Wraithlord... so sweet!


As to the 'birth' of the original chaos gods, the Necron codex has this to say:

The growing pains of the Young Races (note: this is the Eldar and other creations of the Old Ones spawned to combat the C'tan with psychic powers, their weakness) threw the untapped energies of the warp into disorder. War, pain and destruction were mirrored in the bottomless depths of the sea of souls. The maelstroms of spirits unleashed in the carnage coalesced into the previously formless energies of the warp. Older warp entities (note: here it is) became terrifying predators, rending at the souls of vulnerable psykers as their environment was torn asunder and reforged by the energies calle for the warring in the material universe.

These daemons and such atually end up being the deathknell of the Old Ones, not the Necrontyr/C'tan armies. But leaves them in charge of the universe (until the Enslavers overrun it all)

Page 26 btw

MasterDRD wrote:I wasn't around back in those days so I go by what the books say. Of course what the books say has a nasty tendency to change completely, but such is life with 40K...

Should poke around for Realms of Chaos to give it a read over. The only recent reworking its had is the Codex and Army book for the new Daemons.

My take on it is probably the one that Blackclaw has gone for, that the rise of the Chaos Gods was in tandem to those races who had a presence in the Warp. As the Four fight amongst themselves, the demi-gods also plot their rise to mastery and influence to join the Great Game. One such demi-god is Obscuras, who is using the Tyrant Star to slowly increase his power, as does the Necron resurgence and the Tyranid invasion, as fear chokes worlds. The Night Lords help too, on occasion, unwitting allies of his work.

However, if you guys want to keep discussing the ramifications of the fluff and its different interpretations, perhaps this should be moved to the Fluff discussions board?

Hey guys, alas no updates and probably won't be for a while, just in case anyone checks this . Ended up under a mini-avalanche (sodding roofs) and what with a concussion and my Masters project due in the new year, I probably won't be doing much/any modelling or painting work until the dust has settled. Concussion + focusing on small models and avoiding shaky hands = splitting headache and paint everywhere .

In slightly better news, I grabbed a lovely olive green pastel chalk for doing moss on my Woodlord (one day!). And considering making a bunch of Dryad/Wraithguard conversions to go with him (guess I'll need a Spiritseer also in that case).

Nice fluff and awesome looking models. All hail Chaos in all it's many faceted glory (just dont tell Khorne I said that). You have given me a few ideas for some models I have been itching to make but never quite figured out what to do with.

dude, don't worry about your fears, your exodites (the models that you have made are beautiful btw) are YOURS. make them how you want and the fluff will bend to you. Just look athe howling griffons chapter - origionally jst one guys army featured in a white dwarf, and now fully fleshed out and cannon. make them how you want and see what happens.

Nice concept for the Wraithguard...

Sorry to hear about your home... Hope it won't trouble you for long!

Excommunicate Traitoris wrote:Nice fluff and awesome looking models. All hail Chaos in all it's many faceted glory (just dont tell Khorne I said that). You have given me a few ideas for some models I have been itching to make but never quite figured out what to do with.

Glad to be helpful and an inspiration! Now I feel like a muse. Which bits are you going to be a-stealing?

azekio wrote:dude, don't worry about your fears, your exodites (the models that you have made are beautiful btw) are YOURS. make them how you want and the fluff will bend to you. Just look athe howling griffons chapter - origionally jst one guys army featured in a white dwarf, and now fully fleshed out and cannon. make them how you want and see what happens.

Thanks, dude. I still really need to re-photograph the Pathfinders (and probably cut down that huge tree one, much as I love it, its a pain to transport and will fall over with the slightest provocation). If I make my own fluff now, I will have to be internally consistent. Hrm. As long as I can stick horses in there, I'm mostly fine . Elven steeds for Shining Spears/Eldar Jetbikes are just awesome. Actually the new Elven Steeds are just awesome.



Glade Riders by IRONHALO: http://www.ironhalo.net/gdgladeguard.htm

If I do get the background stuff sorted out in my head (note to self: must research wraithbone) I will be writing it down on a new P&M probably.

Yggdrasil wrote:Nice concept for the Wraithguard...

Sorry to hear about your home... Hope it won't trouble you for long!

My home's fine, I actually got hit with the snow while walking home from the corner shop. From three stories high. The piled snow on the slanted roof melted a bit, and then its own weight made it slide off onto the pavement. I just had the misfortune to be standing right under it when it went. The concussion is mostly dealt with now, going to try doing some model work today and see how it goes. Frost pattern on the tabard I think. Maybe green-stuff the Herald a bit.

LadyCassandra wrote:

Wow, are they yours?!? If so, nice job indeed!!!

LadyCassandra wrote:

My home's fine, I actually got hit with the snow while walking home from the corner shop. From three stories high. The piled snow on the slanted roof melted a bit, and then its own weight made it slide off onto the pavement. I just had the misfortune to be standing right under it when it went.

Sorry, I guess I went a bit too fast when reading... Hopefully you're ok now... Cheers!

Ah no, they're not Just a random pic to demonstrate how AWESOME Elven Steeds are. Really should start saying that sort of thing before people get the crazy idea I am a fantastic painter (considering I've not even finished my test model for the new paint scheme now I've learnt a bit, who knows?).

No probs on the reading, everybody does it . I thought it was a reasonable assumption to make that my own roof had collapsed.

You have a scary amount of talent...

Even though I do not like your ideas 100%, I can certainly appreciate the skill you employ to carry them through.