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True true true.

Is this why the topic has moved on to space battles?

Is this where GE has the biggest chance of doing anything?
Like with all their superweapons, and i've read a few starwars books and there are quite a few.

And i thought out of all the races in 40k, the GE would do better against the tau. But then again I don't know much about the tau, and what they're capable of.

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Is this why the topic has moved on to space battles?

Is this where GE has the biggest chance of doing anything?
Like with all their superweapons, and i've read a few starwars books and there are quite a few.

And i thought out of all the races in 40k, the GE would do better against the tau. But then again I don't know much about the tau, and what they're capable of.

Tau warships = fail.
There you go. Tau lose. Thats all. See thats what happens when you decide to write for the greater good on everything

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Is this why the topic has moved on to space battles?

Is this where GE has the biggest chance of doing anything?
Like with all their superweapons, and i've read a few starwars books and there are quite a few.

And i thought out of all the races in 40k, the GE would do better against the tau. But then again I don't know much about the tau, and what they're capable of.

o yeah, all those super weapons


only 4 Super Laser weapon platforms were created. that won't be enough to defeat the IoM. they can exit the warp right next to it and then procede to destroy it with Bombardment cannons.

or they could simply detonate the Warp drives of some small escort nearby and suck the whole thing into the warp.

it would also be a simply matter for an Assassin to sneak a virus bomb onto the death star...


or Genestealers get inside and take it over.

BoS - not backed away from plasma = fusion. They really are. More than one description has them using fusion as a reason, then there is what happens when you rupture containment (you get a hot plasma leakage, behaving exactly like one would expect it to behave)

You have also yet to postulate an alternative source: it isnt AM, nor Vacuum (aka zero point) energy, but an energy source derived directly from matter. the MOST efficient eneergy source is....fusion. So either it is fusion or a less efficient energy conversion system.

Either way the figures fail.

AS to your throwaway point: yes, you can then take this acknowledged and repeated statement of bias (i.e. the entire story can be a lie): dont take one event, assume it happened exactly that way, extrapolate some unknowns and then blindly cling to figures as being completely and 100% accurately representative of weapon and ship efficacy. To do so is obtuse, especially WHEN those calculations are shown to be many orders of magnitude away from what is possible using even perfect energy conversion (whcih they dont use, as they dont use M/AM), when the sizes of torpedoes and supposed numbers in use mean the entire ships are nothing but empty bays for torpedoes, and so on.

The ENORMOUS flaws in BL/FW/GW Codex mean that to attempt to blindly cling to figures as supposed "proof" of anything is beyond silly, and bordering on fingers in ears time.

So much of 40k "canon" cannot be trusted.

FW is not used by majority of posters on debate forums because it contradicts everything else,a fact.

Correction, its not used by YOU. Its equally valid, it just doesn't support your claims. Old FW data supports that anything armed with a Nazi 88mm, Soviet 85mm, or US 90mm would turn Leman Russes to jelly. Aircraft are more difficult, but 1970s era Foxbats and F15s are as fast + have that neat air to air missile thing going for them.

Whenever I see IoM vs. ____ threads all i can think is "who would seriously have the will to fight them after the first few engagements?"

Also the stuff about calculating stuff confuses me.
If in our universe(X), A+B=C
and in universe Y, A+B=D
and say universe Z, A+B=E
why do people compare A and B? Why not just say D is better than E therefore universe Y wins.

Frazzled wrote:

FW is not used by majority of posters on debate forums because it contradicts everything else,a fact.

Correction, its not used by YOU. Its equally valid, it just doesn't support your claims. Old FW data supports that anything armed with a Nazi 88mm, Soviet 85mm, or US 90mm would turn Leman Russes to jelly. Aircraft are more difficult, but 1970s era Foxbats and F15s are as fast + have that neat air to air missile thing going for them.

Shame that all BL books disagree with you also majority of debaters don't use FW because of the flaws in it.

IvanTih wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

FW is not used by majority of posters on debate forums because it contradicts everything else,a fact.

Correction, its not used by YOU. Its equally valid, it just doesn't support your claims. Old FW data supports that anything armed with a Nazi 88mm, Soviet 85mm, or US 90mm would turn Leman Russes to jelly. Aircraft are more difficult, but 1970s era Foxbats and F15s are as fast + have that neat air to air missile thing going for them.

Shame that all BL books disagree with you also majority of debaters don't use FW because of the flaws in it.

and BL books also contradict each other quite often.

the FW books do have several things going for them.

1) they are actual GW matierial, not just approved 3rd party writings.

2) they actually give statistics where a book just gives a description.

Grey Templar wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

FW is not used by majority of posters on debate forums because it contradicts everything else,a fact.

Correction, its not used by YOU. Its equally valid, it just doesn't support your claims. Old FW data supports that anything armed with a Nazi 88mm, Soviet 85mm, or US 90mm would turn Leman Russes to jelly. Aircraft are more difficult, but 1970s era Foxbats and F15s are as fast + have that neat air to air missile thing going for them.

Shame that all BL books disagree with you also majority of debaters don't use FW because of the flaws in it.

and BL books also contradict each other quite often.

the FW books do have several things going for them.

1) they are actual GW matierial, not just approved 3rd party writings.

2) they actually give statistics where a book just gives a description.

And FW has majority of fluff fails,Taros and Kastorel-Novem anyone,oh yeah in those books Imperial forces act completely out of character.

IvanTih wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

FW is not used by majority of posters on debate forums because it contradicts everything else,a fact.

Correction, its not used by YOU. Its equally valid, it just doesn't support your claims. Old FW data supports that anything armed with a Nazi 88mm, Soviet 85mm, or US 90mm would turn Leman Russes to jelly. Aircraft are more difficult, but 1970s era Foxbats and F15s are as fast + have that neat air to air missile thing going for them.

Shame that all BL books disagree with you also majority of debaters don't use FW because of the flaws in it.

and BL books also contradict each other quite often.

the FW books do have several things going for them.

1) they are actual GW matierial, not just approved 3rd party writings.

2) they actually give statistics where a book just gives a description.

And FW has majority of fluff fails,Taros and Kastorel-Novem anyone,oh yeah in those books Imperial forces act completely out of character.

Its still canon. Sorry.

I don't consider it canon as it has characters doing stuff that isn't even possible.

Asherian Command wrote:I don't consider it canon as it has characters doing stuff that isn't even possible.

I hate it for the fluff fails,FW just has to ignore weapon ranges and the fact that Kastorel-Novem could be won by a orbital bombardment.
Same goes for Taros campaign,Marines act out of character.
By the way what do they do that isn't even possible?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One of the Gaunts' Ghosts books illustrates where the local PDF of a planet in the Sabbat Worlds has their own tank, something described as having a 150mm Hypervelocity gun, I believe.

This was LAUGHED OFF by Leman Russ armor.

Asherian Command wrote:I don't consider it canon as it has characters doing stuff that isn't even possible.

Like most BL books? (points at CS Goto and laughs)

Nevertheless I've made my point adn we'll just have to disagree as this side argument is a potential derail of the main topic and not especially pertinent.

Frazzled wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:I don't consider it canon as it has characters doing stuff that isn't even possible.

Like most BL books? (points at CS Goto and laughs)

Nevertheless I've made my point adn we'll just have to disagree as this side argument is a potential derail of the main topic and not especially pertinent.

CS GOTO is a abomination to all Black Library Unless somehow Land Raiders can transform into Razorbacks and then back into Land Raiders then I will accept that as the imperiums must useless invention of all time!
Plus I have to say that the imperium would just own the Starwars universe by one matter. fire power, and the fact that if we put physics of 40k with star wars starwars would lose. As in space you need a way to turn with engines. In 40k it is clear their ships use pivots in their engines by moving it into an angle. In starwars which way can a star destroyer go? only one way forward. They can't go backwards.
In 40k FTL was invented before the invention of Warp Drives, There are lots and lots of Engines on a Cruiser of the Imperial Navy, this includes Regular-Orbital, FTL-System to system jumping, Warp-Long Distance jumps.
Plus the Imperium at full strength is one hell of a force to deal with. Most of the universe is at war with it and it still holds.

Honestly I'm thinking that if the Star Wars Universe was to do battle with the 40K Universe more galactic governments would be attacking then jut the Republic or The Empire, if only because the 40K universe could pose a threat. The Chiss empire, a well organized and incredibly adaptable government that takes up roughly a third of the Star Wars universe would be a major assent especially if it could bring along with it some of its major contributors such as Thrawn, a military genius who took the remnants of the Empire and nearly rebuilt the entire thing all over again.

If it were individual governments vs. eachother though then the IoM would still have difficulty completely beating back any Star Wars race because as soon as it gets to the Star Wars universe it looses Warp Travel, as there is no Warp. But lets say that there is, the Maw Installation would be an amazing hiding spot for any Star Wars races as IoM ships couldn't last long there being to big for the small space made available in between all the black holes. Another place of relative safety would be The Redoubt as it's a large collection of stars that are constantly moving around creating a vary hazardous gravity anomaly. As a final countermeasure that would only be used in dire circumstance it's known that Chiss Empire and Kamino both have access to viruses that can be made to target certain genes or cells in the body, the perfect Space Marine killer.

Azure wrote:Honestly I'm thinking that if the Star Wars Universe was to do battle with the 40K Universe more galactic governments would be attacking then jut the Republic or The Empire, if only because the 40K universe could pose a threat. The Chiss empire, a well organized and incredibly adaptable government that takes up roughly a third of the Star Wars universe would be a major assent especially if it could bring along with it some of its major contributors such as Thrawn, a military genius who took the remnants of the Empire and nearly rebuilt the entire thing all over again.

If it were individual governments vs. eachother though then the IoM would still have difficulty completely beating back any Star Wars race because as soon as it gets to the Star Wars universe it looses Warp Travel, as there is no Warp. But lets say that there is, the Maw Installation would be an amazing hiding spot for any Star Wars races as IoM ships couldn't last long there being to big for the small space made available in between all the black holes. Another place of relative safety would be The Redoubt as it's a large collection of stars that are constantly moving around creating a vary hazardous gravity anomaly. As a final countermeasure that would only be used in dire circumstance it's known that Chiss Empire and Kamino both have access to viruses that can be made to target certain genes or cells in the body, the perfect Space Marine killer.

Uhh doesn't that mean that the imperium would be better than ever as warp drives would make them faster?
And plasma-blaster = lasgun
Imperium of man ships can devastate them so badly.
The Imperium would just own sorry. But your points have already been said but sadly they do not work.

Asherian Command wrote:

Azure wrote:Honestly I'm thinking that if the Star Wars Universe was to do battle with the 40K Universe more galactic governments would be attacking then jut the Republic or The Empire, if only because the 40K universe could pose a threat. The Chiss empire, a well organized and incredibly adaptable government that takes up roughly a third of the Star Wars universe would be a major assent especially if it could bring along with it some of its major contributors such as Thrawn, a military genius who took the remnants of the Empire and nearly rebuilt the entire thing all over again.

If it were individual governments vs. eachother though then the IoM would still have difficulty completely beating back any Star Wars race because as soon as it gets to the Star Wars universe it looses Warp Travel, as there is no Warp. But lets say that there is, the Maw Installation would be an amazing hiding spot for any Star Wars races as IoM ships couldn't last long there being to big for the small space made available in between all the black holes. Another place of relative safety would be The Redoubt as it's a large collection of stars that are constantly moving around creating a vary hazardous gravity anomaly. As a final countermeasure that would only be used in dire circumstance it's known that Chiss Empire and Kamino both have access to viruses that can be made to target certain genes or cells in the body, the perfect Space Marine killer.

Uhh doesn't that mean that the imperium would be better than ever as warp drives would make them faster?
And plasma-blaster = lasgun
Imperium of man ships can devastate them so badly.
The Imperium would just own sorry. But your points have already been said but sadly they do not work.

I can't help but feel you quoted the wrong person as I'm having trouble lining up your counter arguments to my points, can you explain them a bit further?

Azure wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Azure wrote:Honestly I'm thinking that if the Star Wars Universe was to do battle with the 40K Universe more galactic governments would be attacking then jut the Republic or The Empire, if only because the 40K universe could pose a threat. The Chiss empire, a well organized and incredibly adaptable government that takes up roughly a third of the Star Wars universe would be a major assent especially if it could bring along with it some of its major contributors such as Thrawn, a military genius who took the remnants of the Empire and nearly rebuilt the entire thing all over again.

If it were individual governments vs. eachother though then the IoM would still have difficulty completely beating back any Star Wars race because as soon as it gets to the Star Wars universe it looses Warp Travel, as there is no Warp. But lets say that there is, the Maw Installation would be an amazing hiding spot for any Star Wars races as IoM ships couldn't last long there being to big for the small space made available in between all the black holes. Another place of relative safety would be The Redoubt as it's a large collection of stars that are constantly moving around creating a vary hazardous gravity anomaly. As a final countermeasure that would only be used in dire circumstance it's known that Chiss Empire and Kamino both have access to viruses that can be made to target certain genes or cells in the body, the perfect Space Marine killer.

Uhh doesn't that mean that the imperium would be better than ever as warp drives would make them faster?
And plasma-blaster = lasgun
Imperium of man ships can devastate them so badly.
The Imperium would just own sorry. But your points have already been said but sadly they do not work.

I can't help but feel you quoted the wrong person as I'm having trouble lining up your counter arguments to my points, can you explain them a bit further?

Well thing is the Imperium would not lose the warp travel. As the Warp Is everywhere and a counteragruement would be that the Imperium of Man would actually benefit as they no-longer had to deal with the Perils of the warp. meaning that the Pyskers would be 50x more powerful. And not only that but the life Eater virus makes Kamino and Chiss Empire's viruses look like baking powder. Let us not forget that they have fully sealed suits called power armor. In the horus hersey books they only reason why everyone the planet died was because it was the old types of armor. mk3 is known for that but mk4, mk5 and mk6 and mk7 improved on that and no longer suffers from this.
Not only that but Terminator Armor is even more deadly than the hersey.
The Imperium's Weaponry is devastating. And not only that but we are talking about manevaurability of ships, and the imperium actually wins as the Star Wars ships can only go one direction straight using 40k physics believe it or not if you have engines only on one side you will move away from that side. The Star Wars universe has alot of flaws that george lucas ignored like the fact that lasers meeting at a certain point is just large amounts of light going through each other. But apart from that the Star Wars universe would be very difficult foe to deal with.
But the Imperium of Man has three things the Star Wars universe does not. Extermiantus, Pyskers, and Titans.
Pyskers would just manipulate the Star Wars forces to kill each other then they would come in to kill them all.
Exterminatus yeah imagine a giant ship with almost impentrable shields and armor firing down upon your home planet with novacannons that can go through crusts like as if it was paper!
Titans have been noted for taking entire planets by themselves!
Sources
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Titan
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Power_Armour
http://battlefleet-gothic.wikia.com/wiki/Battlefleet_Gothic_Wiki
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Virus_bomb
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Power_Armour
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Psyker


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow I feel so ignored

a) The Chiss do not cover a 1/3 of the galaxy by far. The Unknown Regions cover a 1/3 yes, but that's not the entire Chiss Empire by far. More importantly, Thrawn is dead. His clones are dead. He's gone, and not every Chiss is a strategic genius like him. The Chiss are a relatively minor power compared to the Galactic Alliance, Empire or Republic, New and Old.

b) Do you think that the IoM hasn't DEALT with bio warfare before? You're speaking as if a virus will wipe out enemies left and right with no problem....but there's a simple answer. Power Armor is fully sealed. Guardsmen can be issued rebreathers. Biowarfare isn't an end all be all, and won't be that much of a threat at all. Remember, the Imperium itself uses biowarfare in certain Exterminatus operations.

c) What evidence do you have that the Warp doesn't exist in the SW Galaxy? If you claim that, then hyperspace doesn't exist in the Milky Way, so both sides are trapped, but that defeats the purpose of this debate, so I'm assuming both sides technology will WORK at the very least.

d) As for the Maw and other things....what? An ISD can get in and out of the Maw, and smaller craft can easily navigate stars. Imperial destroyers and escorts are the same size as an ISD, and I see no reason why fighters, bombers, and assault boats to navigate these kind of hazards if SW craft of a similiar size can.

Now, I also have to ask....why would the IoM and the GE even fight tbh? Both are very humanocentric. Both hate aliens. I'd imagine even if they don't merge, they have enough common ground to avoid fighting and focus on fighting aliens and other threats to their shared humanity instead.

I think I agrued that point as well.

Sincerest apologies for the late reply. I shall try to address each point in a hopefully sufficiently substantive manner to make up for my absence.

For Warp travel, if you can please find for me a supported source that says it is in fact everywhere I'll be more willing to accept its presence but if I recall correctly, and bere in mind I may very well not, I believe that 40k fluff has it existing only in the one galaxy, but I will concede for the point of comparison that it could exist in the Star Wars universe. Along with this brief tangent I fail to see how removal of Warp peril increases Psyker power, if I am missing a large part of their back story that indicates this I would love to see it. That isn't supposed to sound sarcastic but I'm sure it comes across like that. >...>

As for IoM ships being better then Star Wars...I think it depends on what you're looking at. They have much better firepower but that means nothing as their travel is horrendously erratic taking anywhere from negative days to centuries to arrive somewhere.

I'm not sure what sort of material Power Armor is made of but I'm going to say that is is cut-able with a lightsaber but still able to take blaster rounds point blank. Assuming this then a combination of Fizz type nanobots coupled with a gene specific virus could still take out marines, though it's unarguable that this would be very difficult to do.

The exterminatus thing honestly seems like it'd take far to long to be used effectively when compaired to a Death Star which with the fire of a single laser can take out an entire planet instantaneously, and it Does have hyper drives installed so it could move around. Though I highly doubt that Death Stars would still be used in comparison to Dark Saber type emplacements where it's just the turbo laser emplacement without all that extra room for troops and staff.

Titans have no equivalent because they have no need for them in Star Wars, but again, they have to get there somehow and I doubt the effectiveness of Warp Travel as a reliable thing.

Psykers, I'd argue are just force users who need to worry about daemons.


In response to the following user, yes Thrawn is dead but I'm picking a part of the time line where he's still alive and fine Honestly I'd be willing to contend their importance as they have held a stable government through the whole Old Republic, Empire, New Republic, and Galactic Alliance era, it's just that authors of various books never focus on them so they seem off in the dark.

In no way do I assume an absence of prevalent Bio-weaponry in 40K but only Space Marines are in sealed armor and some viruses need only skin contact so the IG are still screwed over, even with the breathers.

Onto the Maw, I'm not entirely sure how Navigators use technology in the 40K world but unless they have the Warp-Web-Way don't they more or less flounder about relatively lost? Assuming that they have alternative advanced guidance systems then yes, things like the Maw and Redoubt would be not so dangerous but merely take eternity to get through.

Another thought to arbitrarily throw out there though is the presence of Trade Federation and Techno Union esque droids who are effectively the Star Wars version of the IG, but without all the down falls that come with being human. We know that they can be mass produced and with orbital guidance can be very deadly. Using these droids, I think it would be possible to match the IoM in a war of attrition.

Azure wrote:Sincerest apologies for the late reply. I shall try to address each point in a hopefully sufficiently substantive manner to make up for my absence.

For Warp travel, if you can please find for me a supported source that says it is in fact everywhere I'll be more willing to accept its presence but if I recall correctly, and bere in mind I may very well not, I believe that 40k fluff has it existing only in the one galaxy, but I will concede for the point of comparison that it could exist in the Star Wars universe. Along with this brief tangent I fail to see how removal of Warp peril increases Psyker power, if I am missing a large part of their back story that indicates this I would love to see it. That isn't supposed to sound sarcastic but I'm sure it comes across like that. >...>

As for IoM ships being better then Star Wars...I think it depends on what you're looking at. They have much better firepower but that means nothing as their travel is horrendously erratic taking anywhere from negative days to centuries to arrive somewhere.

I'm not sure what sort of material Power Armor is made of but I'm going to say that is is cut-able with a lightsaber but still able to take blaster rounds point blank. Assuming this then a combination of Fizz type nanobots coupled with a gene specific virus could still take out marines, though it's unarguable that this would be very difficult to do.

The exterminatus thing honestly seems like it'd take far to long to be used effectively when compaired to a Death Star which with the fire of a single laser can take out an entire planet instantaneously, and it Does have hyper drives installed so it could move around. Though I highly doubt that Death Stars would still be used in comparison to Dark Saber type emplacements where it's just the turbo laser emplacement without all that extra room for troops and staff.

Titans have no equivalent because they have no need for them in Star Wars, but again, they have to get there somehow and I doubt the effectiveness of Warp Travel as a reliable thing.

Psykers, I'd argue are just force users who need to worry about daemons.


In response to the following user, yes Thrawn is dead but I'm picking a part of the time line where he's still alive and fine Honestly I'd be willing to contend their importance as they have held a stable government through the whole Old Republic, Empire, New Republic, and Galactic Alliance era, it's just that authors of various books never focus on them so they seem off in the dark.

In no way do I assume an absence of prevalent Bio-weaponry in 40K but only Space Marines are in sealed armor and some viruses need only skin contact so the IG are still screwed over, even with the breathers.

Onto the Maw, I'm not entirely sure how Navigators use technology in the 40K world but unless they have the Warp-Web-Way don't they more or less flounder about relatively lost? Assuming that they have alternative advanced guidance systems then yes, things like the Maw and Redoubt would be not so dangerous but merely take eternity to get through.

Another thought to arbitrarily throw out there though is the presence of Trade Federation and Techno Union esque droids who are effectively the Star Wars version of the IG, but without all the down falls that come with being human. We know that they can be mass produced and with orbital guidance can be very deadly. Using these droids, I think it would be possible to match the IoM in a war of attrition.

Alright here is a counterexample.
1. The Imperium of man's exterminatus only takes a few minutes. And Power Armor is made out of a type steel down to the very nanometer. The imperium of man has thought about it. The Life eater virus dropped on the planet below would destory it.
2. Titans are delivered from Imperial Drop Cruisers that literally drop it from orbit.
3. They Have FTL even without the use of the warp it just takes longer like 3 months longer.
4. Imperial weapons would blast through the Death Star like paper. As They would throw a single Imperial Navy Grand Cruiser and game over for the Death Star.
5. Imperial guard have fully enclosed armor. They are never described, but remember karskins wear fully enclosed armor.
6. Skitari + titan legions = game over for land battles.
7. Boarding torpadoes filled with terminators and teleporter homers = space battle lost
8. Superior armor on ships of the imperium can ward off alot.
9. Thousands of cobra fighters which are as big as Star Destoryers would annihilate the GE's forces.
10. With aboustely no warp daemons to worry about that means the warp is safe to travel.
11. 1 Person Creed. would beat that other fellow
12. Imperial Leaders are tactical geniuses.
13. Black Templars would assualt and destory hundreds of thousands of people. As they have 5,000 Space Marines
14. Storm Crusaders would come in and finish the job. As they have 3,000 space marines
15. Then the other 1 million Other Space Marines.
16. Oh that didn't work lets send in the Apocalypse Class Battle Ship in that has been noted at destroying entire space platforms. With One freaking shot.
17. With we are allowed to bring back other tech. Then met the Black Stone Fortresses.
18. I can keep going. Angry Marines
19. Black Ships. Good Bye Jedi.
20. Power Swords
21. Power Fists
22. Melta Cannon molts down the AT-AT and the droids
23. Bolters + Lasguns = One thousand dead robots.
24. The Imperium learns from its battles they are not some stupid Tactical group. The Imperuim would develop certain ammo to counter the robots. Plus with the invention of the AIs The imperium would go into a mad rage and start killing hundreds of thousands of planets.
25. There is only one Death Star.
26. The Imperium of man has 200,000 Active Fleets. Game Over.
27. Imperial commanders are quite smart compared to the CHARGE attudie of the Federation.

Warp is assumed to be in both universes for the purposes of the debate,hence the Hyperdrive works in 40k universe.
Warp drive crosses 10k ly in 10-40 days(Imperial Guard codex 2nd edition).

Hmmm. It also seems the Imperium of Man would find the location of the AIs and burn the entire planet to a molten slag.

In an effort to be as quick as possible, I'm going to just quote then edit inside the quote my point. Here's the warning so as not to confuse anyone.

Asherian Command wrote:
12. Imperial Leaders are tactical geniuses.

Not all are.
Valhallan Commander Cherenkov who even beated Tyranids in swarm tactics-

IvanTih wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:
12. Imperial Leaders are tactical geniuses.

Not all are.
Valhallan Commander Cherenkov who even beated Tyranids in swarm tactics-

Lol really thats awesome XD

Just a second, don't most Imperium vehicles on land anyway still run on like, desil. Hell dreads have smoke stacks. I find the technology quoted in most GW based material so misquoted and erratic that you can't even compare them to each other. If i must choose though, Necrons eat SW. I can see a Jedi standing there panting, and hearing something. Turning around he sees all the Warriors he chopped up standing up again, and say "gak"

doubled wrote:Just a second, don't most Imperium vehicles on land anyway still run on like, desil. Hell dreads have smoke stacks. I find the technology quoted in most GW based material so misquoted and erratic that you can't even compare them to each other. If i must choose though, Necrons eat SW. I can see a Jedi standing there panting, and hearing something. Turning around he sees all the Warriors he chopped up standing up again, and say "gak"

No they do not run on a gas. That is a myth. It just a fusion of materials that make it recycleable.