Offical fluff source for Warhammer 40k. Starwars v.s. Warhammer 40k debate

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**IvanTih**

doubled wrote:Just a second, don't most Imperium vehicles on land anyway still run on like, desil. Hell dreads have smoke stacks. I find the technology quoted in most GW based material so misquoted and erratic that you can't even compare them to each other. If i must choose though, Necrons eat SW. I can see a Jedi standing there panting, and hearing something. Turning around he sees all the Warriors he chopped up standing up again, and say "gak"

They run on almost every usable fuel(vehicles).
Dreadnoughts use miniature plasma reactors,samo goes for Power Armor and Plasma Weapons.

**Asherian Command**

Also the Space Marine Chapters would probaly combine into one of the most deadliest assaults ever and the Empire would be screwed. Lead by none other than Tactical Genius.... Wait for it...... Tushan and Lord Commander Dante and Logan Grimnar and Calgar.

**Azure**

Asherian Command wrote:
Alright here is a counterexample.
1. The Imperium of man's exterminatus only takes a few minutes. And Power Armor is made out of a type steel down to the very nanometer. The imperium of man has thought about it. The Life eater virus dropped on the planet below would destory it.
If it does only take a few minutes to be dropped then yes it has a great deal of effectiveness. I'm not sure I understand you're Power Armor statement though so let me attempt to get your meaning. It is so solidly reinforced that anything larger then Nanoscopic cannot permeate it, yes?
2. Titans are delivered from Imperial Drop Cruisers that literally drop it from orbit.
I wasn't asking on how they were delivered to the planet itself, though this is helpful, but rather how the ship that dropped said Mega Drop Pods was getting there, the Warp seems to be a bad way to travel and I just wouldn't count on the ship arriving when it needed to.
3. They Have FTL even without the use of the warp it just takes longer like 3 months longer.
Ah! This is very helpful. A great boon to the IoM but such speed could only inhibit them greatly I think, being to late for nearly any battle.
4. Imperial weapons would blast through the Death Star like paper. As They would throw a single Imperial Navy Grand Cruiser and game over for the Death Star.
The Death Star was a small planet made of nothing but metal, if the Imperium has weapons that literally go through planets then why the hell do they have any problems in the normal fluff....I mean with Anything.
5. Imperial guard have fully enclosed armor. They are never described, but remember karskins wear fully enclosed armor.
I'm looking at models who seem to always have open masks for my argument, how rip-able are these garments though?
6. Skitari + titan legions = game over for land battles.
Again with the timing thing, yes Titans are badass but if it never is on time it's worthless.
7. Boarding torpadoes filled with terminators and teleporter homers = space battle lost
Electromagnetic Plus I think would mess with Termies when their electronic bits don't work.
8. Superior armor on ships of the imperium can ward off alot.
Ok, that's a fair assessment.
9. Thousands of cobra fighters which are as big as Star Destoryers would annihilate the GE's forces.
Are they as slow as well? If so then can be avoided, if not then without a gravity well every ship could just Hyperspace out of the battle using a series of small jumps which I don't think the IoM can track.
10. With aboustely no warp daemons to worry about that means the warp is safe to travel.
Again, this is fair. But it is still unpredictable.
11. 1 Person Creed. would beat that other fellow
Creed I highly doubt has the tactical knowledge of Thrawn but! I've not read anything featuring him.
12. Imperial Leaders are tactical geniuses.
I would need a solid comparison but in terms of living, for the IG to survive to a higher rank validates some tact or luck and SM are just long lived so that would also make sense.
13. Black Templars would assualt and destory hundreds of thousands of people. As they have 5,000 Space Marines
5,000 very spread out Marines. Again though, timing thing I think is going to be the biggest bite in the neck for IoM
14. Storm Crusaders would come in and finish the job. As they have 3,000 space marines
15. Then the other 1 million Other Space Marines.
16. Oh that didn't work lets send in the Apocalypse Class Battle Ship in that has been noted at destroying entire space platforms. With One freaking shot.
Maneuverability on both of those would need to be good to ensure its effectiveness. Otherwise it could be avoided.
17. With we are allowed to bring back other tech. Then met the Black Stone Fortresses.
Those are controlled by Chaos atm are they not?
18. I can keep going. Angry Marines
ALWAYS ANGRY, ALL THE TIME!
19. Black Ships. Good Bye Jedi.
Do they target force users? Serious question.
20. Power Swords
21. Power Fists
I think these two are abit to close combat oriented to be as deadly as they should be.
22. Melta Cannon molts down the AT-AT and the droids
AT-AT are ineffective, melt the damn things down. Droids would pose to many targets however and I believe that the cannons would eventually run out of ammo before the droid numbers ran out.
23. Bolters + Lasguns = One thousand dead robots.
Only 99,000 left
24. The Imperium learns from its battles they are not some stupid Tactical group. The Imperuim would develop certain ammo to counter the robots. Plus with the invention of the AIs The imperium would go into a mad rage and start killing hundreds of thousands of planets.
One wouldn't need special ammo to counter the droids I don't think, and both forces should be learning from battles. But the IoM would have a longer lag time between reports. Not sure about the whole AI thing though >..>
25. There is only one Death Star.
3 Actually, First then the half finished second then the proto-type model that was left in the Maw. Let's also not forget the Suncrusher which does just what it's name implies, wipse out entire solar systems at a time.
26. The Imperium of man has 200,000 Active Fleets. Game Over.
Sizable fleets that can be rallied quickly and accurately though?
27. Imperial commanders are quite smart compared to the CHARGE attudie of the Federation.

**IvanTih**

Asherian Command wrote:Also the Space Marine Chapters would probaly combine into one of the most deadliest assaults ever and the Empire would be screwed. Lead by none other than Tactical Genius.... Wait for it...... Tushan and Lord Commander Dante and Logan Grimnar and Calgar.

They also require the support of the Imperial Guard,Marine's task is to launch quick strikes and eliminate leadership,not fighting extended campaings.

**Asherian Command**

Azure you have never heard of CREEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!
He is the greatest Tactican the imperium has ever known.
Plus Black Stone Fortress were known for being bigger than moons....
Also Ever since Warp Drives are enabled that means that they can respond to everything quickly.
Alrighty the 1,000 go deal is that 1,000 guardsmen vs 1,000 droids.... hmmm Same Weapons almost identical armor but the imperium could just send in lots of aircraft to support the guardsmen. And also considering that the imperium is well known for excuting plans fairly quickly but their battles take years to do because the scale of the wars.

The Imperium's cobras are as fast if not faster than Eldar fighters. Thats pretty damn fast. And Cobras are basically fighters and are the size of a Star Destroyer and they are equipped with lances. Lots and Lots of lances.

The Imperiums FTLs are pretty good by themselves. But ever since the Imperium has warp capability the GE is screwed.

The Death Stars are screwed against the combined efforts of one fleet. The GE could barely handle that many ships and that many armies at the same time.

**Grey Templar**

Azure wrote:Sincerest apologies for the late reply. I shall try to address each point in a hopefully sufficiently substantive manner to make up for my absence.

1) For Warp travel, if you can please find for me a supported source that says it is in fact everywhere I'll be more willing to accept its presence but if I recall correctly, and bere in mind I may very well not, I believe that 40k fluff has it existing only in the one galaxy, but I will concede for the point of comparison that it could exist in the Star Wars universe. Along with this brief tangent I fail to see how removal of Warp peril increases Psyker power, if I am missing a large part of their back story that indicates this I would love to see it. That isn't supposed to sound sarcastic but I'm sure it comes across like that. >...>

2) As for IoM ships being better then Star Wars...I think it depends on what you're looking at. They have much better firepower but that means nothing as their travel is horrendously erratic taking anywhere from negative days to centuries to arrive somewhere.

3) I'm not sure what sort of material Power Armor is made of but I'm going to say that is is cut-able with a lightsaber but still able to take blaster rounds point blank. Assuming this then a combination of Fizz type nanobots coupled with a gene specific virus could still take out marines, though it's unarguable that this would be very difficult to do.

4) The exterminatus thing honestly seems like it'd take far to long to be used effectively when compaired to a Death Star which with the fire of a single laser can take out an entire planet instantaneously, and it Does have hyper drives installed so it could move around. Though I highly doubt that Death Stars would still be used in comparison to Dark Saber type emplacements where it's just the turbo laser emplacement without all that extra room for troops and staff.

5) Titans have no equivalent because they have no need for them in Star Wars, but again, they have to get there somehow and I doubt the effectiveness of Warp Travel as a reliable thing.

6) Psykers, I'd argue are just force users who need to worry about daemons.

In response to the following user, yes Thrawn is dead but I'm picking a part of the time line where he's still alive and fine Honestly I'd be willing to contend their importance as they have held a stable government through the whole Old Republic, Empire, New Republic, and Galactic Alliance era, it's just that authors of various books never focus on them so they seem off in the dark.

7) In no way do I assume an absence of prevalent Bio-weaponry in 40K but only Space Marines are in sealed armor and some viruses need only skin contact so the IG are still screwed over, even with the breathers.

8) Onto the Maw, I'm not entirely sure how Navigators use technology in the 40K world but unless they have the Warp-Web-Way don't they more or less flounder about relatively lost? Assuming that they have alternative advanced guidance systems then yes, things like the Maw and Redoubt would be not so dangerous but merely take eternity to get through.

9) Another thought to arbitrarily throw out there though is the presence of Trade Federation and Techno Union esque droids who are effectively the Star Wars version of the IG, but without all the down falls that come with being human. We know that they can be mass produced and with orbital guidance can be very deadly. Using these droids, I think it would be possible to match the IoM in a war of attrition.

breaking it down for you

1) the Warp is an alternate and parallel dimension. Parallel dimensions can access each other from any point in either dimension. "A long time ago, in a Galaxy far-far away" means that the Star Wars galaxy is in the same universe as our own. and since 40k is just our Galaxy 39,000 years from now...

2) having a slower method of space travel doesn't really mean much when your ships are bigger and more powerful and you could pop up anywhere. Hyperspace travel is still within "real space" and is limited by the presence of physical objects. Warp Travel has no such limitations as they simply warp out in one place and warp back in in another. the GE or Republic would have no idea where the IoM fleets would appear. they may get intelligence that a fleet is leaving for a certain location, but it really doesn't do them any good. the fleet could arrive before it left(imagine that surprise

), it could arrive in a month, it could be a hundred years. the randomness is precisely what makes the IoM so deadly. they have found out how to work around the randomness, but the GE or New Republic wouldn't have a clue.

3) Lightsabres might not be able to cut through PA. not much is known about Ceramite except that it has zero heat conduction and is incredibly strong. since Plasma goes right through PA i would say that a Lightsabre would go right through it, but a Jedi/Sith would have a tough time. You can't deflect Bolt rounds as they would simply explode, covering the unlucky Jedi in shrapnel. individually, not lethal but multiple rounds would begin to take their toll and if that round was a Hellfire round it would be game over(you would end up coated in Mutagenic Acid) there would also be very few Jedi/Sith to counter the 1 million Space Marines. and if a Librarian was around they would begin a mind duel and then the Marines just pour fire down onto the defenseless Force user.

4) so the deathstar can KO a planet. there wasn't more then 3-4 platforms carrying a Turbolaser that big. the IoM can wipe out a planet with any ship that has Torpedo bays. a small fleet of 3-6 ships can destroy a world in minutes. a single ship with a single torpedo launce would take longer, but not any more then a couple of days and any virus that got onto any transports trying to escape would doom the occupants. the beauty of Life Eater Viruses is that it feeds on all life not just Mega-fauna so even if a crew had enclosed jump suits the virus would survive on Bacteria and other viruses. if any of the virus survived in some forgotten corner of the ship the survivors might unwittingly bring it to another planet...

5) Warp Travel may be slow, but once a Titan legion and other ground forces get to their destination it's game over.

6) if we equate Force users to Psykers then the IoM would simply be drawing the gaze of Chaos to all those defenseless Jedi/Sith. instant posession especially for the Sith.

7) yes, the IG gets fethed by Biowarfare, but it isn't anything new to the IoM.

8) the GE may be able to hide for a time in the Maw installation, but it's just a matter of time. the IoM is stubborn, tenatious, and can afford to wait.

9) Droid Armys could potentially match the IG in wars of attrition, but they are vulnerable to communication jamming, loss of leadership and production centers. something the Adeptus Astartes are very good at hitting. the IoM does use/have access to Atomic weaponry. it wouldn't take the Adeptus of Mars long to use the EMP effects from Nuclear blasts to simply begin shutting a droid army down. they might also be able to rig up a computer virus to destroy the droids.

**Azure**

Asherian Command wrote:Azure you have never heard of CREEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!
He is the greatest Tactican the imperium has ever known.
Plus Black Stone Fortress were known for being bigger than moons....
Also Ever since Warp Drives are enabled that means that they can respond to everything quickly.
Alrighty the 1,000 go deal is that 1,000 guardsmen vs 1,000 droids.... hmmm Same Weapons almost identical armor but the imperium could just send in lots of aircraft to support the guardsmen. And also considering that the imperium is well known for excuting plans fairly quickly but their battles take years to do because the scale of the wars.

The Imperium's cobras are as fast if not faster than Eldar fighters. Thats pretty damn fast. And Cobras are basically fighters and are the size of a Star Destroyer and they are equipped with lances. Lots and Lots of lances.

The Imperiums FTLs are pretty good by themselves. But ever since the Imperium has warp capability the GE is screwed.

The Death Stars are screwed against the combined efforts of one fleet. The GE could barely handle that many ships and that many armies at the same time.

I've heard of Creed, just never read anything to validate his genius (or lack there of). I've read about the Blackstone fortresses to, but if Chaos has them then they may as well not even exist X( 3 Months time on a Warp Drive is far from quick when an Imperial fleet can cover a similar distance in at least half that. As for droids, don't forget they also get Hailfire, Spider and a slough of other types of droids as support for them. Those should even up things a tad.
Concerning lances, would they be repelled by a Star Destroyers shields, as they a a beam on concentrated Warp, yes? And I still don't think that you're getting, the warp would not be a better alternative as it could end up taking the ships Centuries to get to a battle that's happening now.

**Asherian Command**

Azure wrote:
Concerning lances, would they be repelled by a Star Destroyers shields, as they a a beam on concentrated Warp, yes? And I still don't think that you're getting, the warp would not be a better alternative as it could end up taking the ships Centuries to get to a battle that's happening now.

Lances are not concentrations of warp. That is a nova cannon and they go right through shields. But they are pretty inaccurate.
Sorry but the last part made me facepalm

**Azure**

Asherian Command wrote:
Azure wrote:
Concerning lances, would they be repelled by a Star Destroyers shields, as they a a beam on concentrated Warp, yes? And I still don't think that you're getting, the warp would not be a better alternative as it could end up taking the ships Centuries to get to a battle that's happening now.

Lances are not concentrations of warp. That is a nova cannon and they go right through shields. But they are pretty inaccurate.
Sorry but the last part made me facepalm

Oh ok, that does make Lances seem like abit more a threat. I don't understand why though? Warp travel is terribly unpredictable as has been evidenced multiple times before in the official fluff and warp drives take 3 months, using a previous poster's data here, to travel a significant distance.

**IvanTih**

Just a note,Lances have been stated by Andy Chambers to be a plasma weapons.

**Asherian Command**

Azure wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:
Azure wrote:
Concerning lances, would they be repelled by a Star Destroyers shields, as they a a beam on concentrated Warp, yes? And I still don't think that you're getting, the warp would not be a better alternative as it could end up taking the ships Centuries to get to a battle that's happening now.

Lances are not concentrations of warp. That is a nova cannon and they go right through shields. But they are pretty inaccurate.
Sorry but the last part made me facepalm

Oh ok, that does make Lances seem like abit more a threat. I don't understand why though? Warp travel is terribly unpredictable as has been evidenced multiple times before in the official fluff and warp drives take 3 months, using a previous poster's data here, to travel a significant distance.

Actually not 3 months just regularly ftls.
But Warp drive is so unpredictable it could be 1 minute to 500 years. But if it reaches more than just years it is incredibly rare. Like seeing every single Space Marine in the same place at the same time.
Remember the warp is unpredictable but it is not like everytime you jump through the warp you will be stuck in there for thousands of year.s

**Grey Templar**

Azure wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:Azure you have never heard of CREEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!
He is the greatest Tactican the imperium has ever known.
Plus Black Stone Fortress were known for being bigger than moons....
Also Ever since Warp Drives are enabled that means that they can respond to everything quickly.
Alrighty the 1,000 go deal is that 1,000 guardsmen vs 1,000 droids.... hmmm Same Weapons almost identical armor but the imperium could just send in lots of aircraft to support the guardsmen. And also considering that the imperium is well known for excuting plans fairly quickly but their battles take years to do because the scale of the wars.

The Imperium's cobras are as fast if not faster than Eldar fighters. Thats pretty damn fast. And Cobras are basically fighters and are the size of a Star Destroyer and they are equipped with lances. Lots and Lots of lances.

The Imperiums FTLs are pretty good by themselves. But ever since the Imperium has warp capability the GE is screwed.

The Death Stars are screwed against the combined efforts of one fleet. The GE could barely handle that many ships and that many armies at the same time.

I've heard of Creed, just never read anything to validate his genius (or lack there of). I've read about the Blackstone fortresses to, but if Chaos has them then they may as well not even exist X( 3 Months time on a Warp Drive is far from quick when an Imperial fleet can cover a similar distance in at least half that. As for droids, don't forget they also get Hailfire, Spider and a slough of other types of droids as support for them. Those should even up things a tad.
Concerning lances, would they be repelled by a Star Destroyers shields, as they a a beam on concentrated Warp, yes? And I still don't think that you're getting, the warp would not be a better alternative as it could end up taking the ships Centuries to get to a battle that's happening now.

the IoM hardly ever responds to a battle happening "Now" they don't need to.

IoM space defenses are designed to repel invaders either long enough to get a distress call out so a relief fleet can come in a few weeks OR the defenses are just tough enough to stop many attacks outright. a very basic IoM plantary defense fleet might consist of 1-2 Cruisers(which are about 25-50% larger then Star Destroyers) and up to a dozen escort frigates(around the same size as a Victory or Acclamator cruiser) it would take a sizable GE fleet to even have a stab at a fleet like that and that is just a basic defense fleet. it doesn't even include any orbital or planet based torpedo launchers.

if an IoM world doesn't have at least this level of defense it is either an Astartes recruiting world(which opens up other, Genetically enhanced 8ft, problems) or it really isn't important and the IoM can afford to lose it or let it sit and wait untill a fleet can be sent to take it back.

**Azure**

Asherian Command wrote:
Azure wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:
Azure wrote:
Concerning lances, would they be repelled by a Star Destroyers shields, as they a a beam on concentrated Warp, yes? And I still don't think that you're getting, the warp would not be a better alternative as it could end up taking the ships Centuries to get to a battle that's happening now.

Lances are not concentrations of warp. That is a nova cannon and they go right through shields. But they are pretty inaccurate.
Sorry but the last part made me facepalm

Oh ok, that does make Lances seem like abit more a threat. I don't understand why though? Warp travel is terribly unpredictable as has been evidenced multiple times before in the official fluff and warp drives take 3 months, using a previous poster's data here, to travel a significant distance.

Actually not 3 months just regularly ftls.
But Warp drive is so unpredictable it could be 1 minute to 500 years. But if it reaches more than just years it is incredibly rare. Like seeing every single Space Marine in the same place at the same time.
Remember the warp is unpredictable but it is not like everytime you jump through the warp you will be stuck in there for thousands of year.s

Very true, the Warp is highly erratic so it's entirely plausible that the fleet arrives when needed but it seems like it eccentricity rarely plays in favor of time management. Just for a stable way of travel it doesn't seem like a great solution. It's similar to playing poker, anything can happen. Hyperspace is abit more similar to chess, there are occasional hiccups in plans but for the most part you know how things can move and work. Yay horrid analogies, but I'm going with them anyway.

**Asherian Command**

Yep remember Cobra fighters can take anywhere from 20 minutes to make to around 1 day to make. Because they are so simple to make but they are so deadly. But the GE could never replicated because the technologies required are so god awfully high they could no do it

**Azure**

Grey Templar wrote:
Azure wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:Azure you have never heard of CREEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!
He is the greatest Tactican the imperium has ever known.
Plus Black Stone Fortress were known for being bigger than moons....
Also Ever since Warp Drives are enabled that means that they can respond to everything quickly.
Alrighty the 1,000 go deal is that 1,000 guardsmen vs 1,000 droids.... hmmm Same Weapons almost identical armor but the imperium could just send in lots of aircraft to support the guardsmen. And also considering that the imperium is well known for excuting plans fairly quickly but their battles take years to do because the scale of the wars.

The Imperium's cobras are as fast if not faster than Eldar fighters. Thats pretty damn fast. And Cobras are basically fighters and are the size of a Star Destroyer and they are equipped with lances. Lots and Lots of lances.

The Imperiums FTLs are pretty good by themselves. But ever since the Imperium has warp capability the GE is screwed.

The Death Stars are screwed against the combined efforts of one fleet. The GE could barely handle that many ships and that many armies at the same time.

I've heard of Creed, just never read anything to validate his genius (or lack there of). I've read about the Blackstone fortresses to, but if Chaos has them then they may as well not even exist X( 3 Months time on a Warp Drive is far from quick when an Imperial fleet can cover a similar distance in at least half that. As for droids, don't forget they also get Hailfire, Spider and a slough of other types of droids as support for them. Those should even up things a tad.
Concerning lances, would they be repelled by a Star Destroyers shields, as they a a beam on concentrated Warp, yes? And I still don't think that you're getting, the warp would not be a better alternative as it could end up taking the ships Centuries to get to a battle that's happening now.

the IoM hardly ever responds to a battle happening "Now" they don't need to.

IoM space defenses are designed to repel invaders either long enough to get a distress call out so a relief fleet can come in a few weeks OR the defenses are just tough enough to stop many attacks outright. a very basic IoM plantary defense fleet might consist of 1-2 Cruisers(which are about 25-50% larger then Star Destroyers) and up to a dozen escort frigates(around the same size as a Victory or Acclamator cruiser) it would take a sizable GE fleet to even have a stab at a fleet like that and that is just a basic defense fleet. it doesn't even include any orbital or planet based torpedo launchers.

if an IoM world doesn't have at least this level of defense it is either an Astartes recruiting world(which opens up other, Genetically enhanced 8ft, problems) or it really isn't important and the IoM can afford to lose it or let it sit and wait untill a fleet can be sent to take it back.

Would there ever be any fighting then? Empire's not going to attack a highly defended world and IoM can't get to the faster Empire ships so....not much happening war wise.

**Asherian Command**

Well the empire could try and escape the fleet but they would be systematically destroyed by a single lance shot.

**Grey Templar**

Azure wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Azure wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:Azure you have never heard of CREEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!
He is the greatest Tactican the imperium has ever known.
Plus Black Stone Fortress were known for being bigger than moons....
Also Ever since Warp Drives are enabled that means that they can respond to everything quickly.
Alrighty the 1,000 go deal is that 1,000 guardsmen vs 1,000 droids.... hmmm Same Weapons almost identical armor but the imperium could just send in lots of aircraft to support the guardsmen. And also considering that the imperium is well known for excuting plans fairly quickly but their battles take years to do because the scale of the wars.

The Imperium's cobras are as fast if not faster than Eldar fighters. Thats pretty damn fast. And Cobras are basically fighters and are the size of a Star Destroyer and they are equipped with lances. Lots and Lots of lances.

The Imperiums FTLs are pretty good by themselves. But ever since the Imperium has warp capability the GE is screwed.

The Death Stars are screwed against the combined efforts of one fleet. The GE could barely handle that many ships and that many armies at the same time.

I've heard of Creed, just never read anything to validate his genius (or lack there of). I've read about the Blackstone fortresses to, but if Chaos has them then they may as well not even exist X( 3 Months time on a Warp Drive is far from quick when an Imperial fleet can cover a similar distance in at least half that. As for droids, don't forget they also get Hailfire, Spider and a slough of other types of droids as support for them. Those should even up things a tad.
Concerning lances, would they be repelled by a Star Destroyers shields, as they a a beam on concentrated Warp, yes? And I still don't think that you're getting, the warp would not be a better alternative as it could end up taking the ships Centuries to get to a battle that's happening now.

the IoM hardly ever responds to a battle happening "Now" they don't need to.

IoM space defenses are designed to repel invaders either long enough to get a distress call out so a relief fleet can come in a few weeks OR the defenses are just tough enough to stop many attacks outright. a very basic IoM plantary defense fleet might consist of 1-2 Cruisers(which are about 25-50% larger then Star Destroyers) and up to a dozen escort frigates(around the same size as a Victory or Acclamator cruiser) it would take a sizable GE fleet to even have a stab at a fleet like that and that is just a basic defense fleet. it doesn't even include any orbital or planet based torpedo launchers.

if an IoM world doesn't have at least this level of defense it is either an Astartes recruiting world(which opens up other, Genetically enhanced 8ft, problems) or it really isn't important and the IoM can afford to lose it or let it sit and wait untill a fleet can be sent to take it back.

Would there ever be any fighting then? Empire's not going to attack a highly defended world and IoM can't get to the faster Empire ships so....not much happening war wise.

it just means the IoM slowly conquors the GE. once the ioM gets somewhere it is over. it might take a thousand years, but Star Wars would die in the end a long..........slow...........painful.........death.

**Azure**

Asherian Command wrote:Well the empire could try and escape the fleet but they would be systematically destroyed by a single lance shot.

That'd need to be a big-ass shot to take out an entire, spaced out fleet. And this all assumes that a IoM would ever run into an Imperial fleet. Highly doubt they would. Regardless I think a final summation would boil down to neither galaxy doing much to the either, the Imperials having ships that can disappear into space without being tracked instantly and IoM having huge-ass battle ships that are horribly powerful but unable to trace and find the Imperial fleets.

**Grey Templar**

the IoM doesn't need to find the fleets.

they just need to take each planet one by one untill the Empire ships run out of supplies and are forced to come to the IoM and take back the planets or die of starvation.

it's how the U.S. was able to push the japanese out of the Pacific islands. they took out the big supply bases and moved on. the rest just "withered and died on the vine"

**Azure**

Grey Templar wrote:the IoM doesn't need to find the fleets.

they just need to take each planet one by one untill the Empire ships run out of supplies and are forced to come to the IoM and take back the planets or die of starvation.

it's how the U.S. was able to push the japanese out of the Pacific islands. they took out the big supply bases and moved on. the rest just "withered and died on the vine"

The 40k Universe would be rife with planets to grab and take to though, planets that could remain untouched for years.

**Grey Templar**

read my previous post to see why that would be impossable/wouldn't effect the IoM.

any planets the Empire could take would be planets the IoM could afford to lose.

**Azure**

Grey Templar wrote:read my previous post to see why that would be impossable/wouldn't effect the IoM.

any planets the Empire could take would be planets the IoM could afford to lose.

I'm putting it out there that neither would win, IoM can afford to lose them and wouldn't know they were gone for quite a long time. It's sort of a situation that just won't really get anywhere.

**Asherian Command**

Nah IoM would win by long time wars.

**Grey Templar**

Azure wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:read my previous post to see why that would be impossable/wouldn't effect the IoM.

any planets the Empire could take would be planets the IoM could afford to lose.

I'm putting it out there that neither would win, IoM can afford to lose them and wouldn't know they were gone for quite a long time. It's sort of a situation that just won't really get anywhere.

o they know their gone. Astropathic communication is pretty fast. it just takes a few months for the administratum to send help.

and those worlds would do the Empire no good. if they can take them they will have little to no infrastructure to resupply the Empire fleets.

**Melissia**

sourclams wrote:Blaster would probably be equiv to a lasgun, although much more miniaturized due to arguably better tech.

Ahem.

Melissia wrote:SW blasters can't disembody limbs, decapitate someone, or blast holes through people.

Seriously, the lasgun is a very powerful weapon, more powerful than modern standard infantry weapons. Flak armor is definitely far better than modern infantry armor, being lighter while covering more of the body-- so not only would a guardsman in flak armor be better protected than someone from the US Army, they'd also have better stamina because they don't carry around anywhere near as much weight.

And based off of the movies, stormtrooper armor is pretty lame. 40k's stormtroopers, meanwhile, have extremely protective armor, able to catch a rocket in the chest with little damage.

**Asherian Command**

Melissia wrote:
sourclams wrote:Blaster would probably be equiv to a lasgun, although much more miniaturized due to arguably better tech.
Ahem.
Melissia wrote:SW blasters can't disembody limbs, decapitate someone, or blast holes through people.
Seriously, the lasgun is a very powerful weapon, more powerful than modern standard infantry weapons. Flak armor is definitely far better than modern infantry armor, being lighter while covering more of the body-- so not only would a guardsman in flak armor be better protected than someone from the US Army, they'd also have better stamina because they don't carry around anywhere near as much weight.

And based off of the movies, stormtrooper armor is pretty lame. 40k's stormtroopers, meanwhile, have extremely protective armor, able to catch a rocket in the chest with little damage.

Yeah 5 vs 1 is not fair.
It is extremely one sided right now. What no other Star Wars fan will help out The other fan?

**Ketara**

Just to chip in on a point I just read, internet memes aside, Thrawn > Creed.

Seriously. Thrawn is the ultimate commander in terms of strategy.

**Asherian Command**

Ketara wrote:Just to chip in on a point I just read, internet memes aside, Thrawn > Creed.

Seriously. Thrawn is the ultimate commander in terms of strategy.

So he beats the Art of War writer and Hannibal and Caesar? In History sense how good is he?

**ChrisWWII**

....For the record, Asherian, Cobras are destroyers the same size as an ISD. Not fighters in the slightest. And Nova cannons don't involve the warp at all. Nova cannons fire, basically, a hypervelocity bomb that does a lot of pain to whatever it hits, and whatever's near whatever it hits. The only weapons that maybe involve the Warp are vortex weapons (extremely rare, unlikely to be used except in major MAJOR battles) and the fancy Warp cannon thingy on Blackstone Fortresses. Of course, that doesn't really matter as all the Blackstones are either gone or in Chaos's hands.

BUt I think that says something. In SW fluff, ISDs are warships powerful enough to threaten whole rebellious worlds (provided the world isn't a major, hyper industrialized world), and is a significant threat on its own. However, to the IoM ISD sized vessels are tiny things barely worthy of a name, let alone an actual threat. GE ships the size of a true Imperial Battleship are extremely rare. The SSDs, and Eclipse class ships are very uncommon, and their mere presence is enough to turn the tide of a battle, or pose a major threat to even heavily defended planets. Imagine the GEs reaction to seeing an Imperial Crusade fleet with tens of ships on that scale, dozens more that are midsized, and potentially hundreds of ISD sized vessels. It'll be a massive force. Something that is an extremely rare sight.

Not to mention, the response depends on who we're facing. The Republic wouldn't be able to counter attack at all. The civiillian leadership would demand every asset stay and protect their electorate. The Empire may stand united for a while, but once the various sector Moffs and Admirals see that the GE may not be able to ensure their own survival? THey'll begin to break away, hoarding their own assets to protect their own realms, and maybe even try to negotiate seperate peace treaties. It might even work. Most GE leaders are human, and are xenophobic, if they agree to worship the Emperor and pay tithes, then there is no reason why the Imperium wouldn't take them in

Edit: And while Thrawn was a genius, he failed to see his own demise coming. Not to mention....it almost seems like a lot of his plans were based on technological trickery rather than actual battle prowess. Not saying he wasn't good, but he's not a magical 'I win' commander.

tl;dr. Thrawn is dead. His clones are dead. Creed is alive and kicking.

**camboyaz**

ChrisWWII wrote:Assuming it GETS through the ridiciulous number of orbital defenses Terra has. Seriously. Terra's defenses make Cadia look like a wooden fence.

Guys, come on, the average IoM Crusier isn't even as big as a Super Star Destroyer, it's a little bigger than a regular one. And the Death Star can fit lik 40 Super Star Destroyers inside. I don't think they can tackle the Death Star. let alone 2.
Soure for size: http://www.merzo.net/