Mephiston- having a moan.

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**AlmightyWalrus**

Mukkin'About wrote:That's about as likely as them retconning ultras.

Haven't they already? I remember reading somewhere that the Ultramarines were a second founding chapter that scavenged most of their stuff back in the days, but this could be me misremembering things.

**Lord Chiasson**

Im just curious as to why people think that Meph becoming a badass cause he is the only space marine in the entire 40k universe and the entire Blood Angel Legion existence to surpass a genetic flaw(think of it as being born with cancer and then surviving it without treatment just an i.e) which usually always claims his fellow brothers doesn't deserve to have awesome fluff that stats I can see being justified as he has mastered his abilities over the years becoming stronger and what not. How does anyone know what mastering the black rage brings in power? only one person has ever done it. And then its like me yelling about Abbadon being able to not be the pawn of any of the Chaos Gods yet still get there favor?, how much BS is that there Chaos Gods for Emperor's sake how can you play them?

**DA's Forever**

Abbadon = A playa! that's how!

But in all seriousness, I think it would improve him yes, but just not so much as it has.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Lord Chiasson wrote:Im just curious as to why people think that Meph becoming a badass cause he is the only space marine in the entire 40k universe and the entire Blood Angel Legion existence to surpass a genetic flaw(think of it as being born with cancer and then surviving it without treatment just an i.e)

Lemartes?

**Lord Chiasson**

No lemartes still has the Black Rage its just barley kept in check and also he is put into stasis to slow the effects also IIRC, and he hasn't conquered it he is basically just riding it way out

**DA's Forever**

man up and go bury yourself with a building

**Lord Chiasson**

Abaddon where talking about the one who failed all 13 crusades right?

you think he would have gotten it maybe the 3rd try right? lol

DA's Forever wrote:man up and go bury yourself with a building

Done and do.....OMG did not think this threw, did not think thi....[silence] [applause]

**Fifty**

Mukkin'About wrote:That's about as likely as them retconning ultras.

You know they already did that, and are being amusing, right?

**DA's Forever**

Lord Chiasson wrote:Abaddon where talking about the one who failed all 13 crusades right? you think he would have gotten it maybe the 3rd try right? lol

DA's Forever wrote:man up and go bury yourself with a building

Done and do.....OMG did not think this threw, did not think thi....[silence] [applause]

*Mephiston picks up rubble* "You overcame it yet?"

"Dont put me back in here man!"

"that's a no." *drops rubble* "see you next week"

**Lord Chiasson**

DA's Forever wrote:
Lord Chiasson wrote:Abaddon where talking about the one who failed all 13 crusades right? you think he would have gotten it maybe the 3rd try right? lol

DA's Forever wrote:man up and go bury yourself with a building

Done and do.....OMG did not think this threw, did not think thi....[silence] [applause]

*Mephiston picks up rubble* "You overcame it yet?"

"Dont put me back in here man!"

"that's a no." *drops rubble* "see you next week"

LMAO

**Klawz**

Lord Chiasson wrote:Abaddon where talking about the one who failed all 13 crusades right? you think he would have gotten it maybe the 3rd try right? lol

Two things:
1) He wasn't even head of all of them.
2) Black Crusades often have different purposes than just conquering the Imperium. The 12th's goal was to take a Blackstone Fortress, and the 13th was to capture Cadia.

**ChocolateGork**

How many have succeeded?

And how much security can there be around a blackstone?

Surely there is one inside the eye of terror or somewhere the imperium isnt.

**Klawz**

lexicanum wrote:781.M31, beginning of the 1st Black Crusade aka The First Battle of Cadia.
597.M32, beginning of the 2nd Black Crusade a failed attack on defences of Cadia.
909.M32, beginning of the 3rd Black Crusade.
001.M34, beginning of the 4th Black Crusade. Destruction of the Citadel of Kromarch on El'Phanor.
723.M36, beginning of the 5th Black Crusade.
901.M36, beginning of the 6th Black Crusade.
811.M37, beginning of the 7th Black Crusade aka the Ghost War. The Blood Angels are slaughtered at Mackan.
999.M37, beginning of the 8th Black Crusade.
573.M38, beginning of the 9th Black Crusade.
001.M39, beginning of the 10th Black Crusade aka the Conflict of Helica. Iron Warriors fight the Iron Hands at Medusa.
301.M39, beginning of the 11th Black Crusade.
139.M41, beginning of the 12th Black Crusade aka the Gothic War. Abaddon the Despoiler tries to capture the Blackstone Fortresses.
999.M41, beginning of the ongoing 13th Black Crusade. Major attack on the Cadian system.
Other known Black Crusades
The Black Crusade of Tallomin. Daemon Prince Tallomin leads an attack that is crushed by the Space Wolves.1
The Black Crusade of Doombreed. Doombreed, Daemon Prince of Khorne, declares war upon the Adeptus Astartes. The Warhawks and the Venerators are lost.1
The Black Crusade of Jihar the Lacerator. Jihar the Lacerator, champion of Slaanesh, invades Imperial space but is met by stern resistance from the Mordant 13th Acid Dogs regiment of the Imperial Guard.4
The Blackstar Crusade. In M34, Lord Ekrak, a champion of Khorne, leads a crusade to conquer the world of M'Laar XIII and ascends to deamonhood. In the aftermath, the forces under his command begin to fight each other for possession of the planet.7

**theduncan**

how did discussions get to the black crusades - back on topic

meph is tough because he has ascended to near primarch-hood and yeah

**purplefood**

theduncan wrote:how did discussions get to the black crusades - back on topic

meph is tough because he has ascended to near primarch-hood and yeah

That doesn't make any sense.
He should be tough but not as tough as he is.

**Lord Chiasson**

Klawz wrote:
Lord Chiasson wrote:Abaddon where talking about the one who failed all 13 crusades right? you think he would have gotten it maybe the 3rd try right? lol

Two things:
1) He wasn't even head of all of them.
2) Black Crusades often have different purposes than just conquering the Imperium. The 12th's goal was to take a Blackstone Fortress, and the 13th was to capture Cadia.

Alright my bad, So its only for sure that he has Failed one? and noone knows who was leading those other black crusades?

purplefood wrote:
theduncan wrote:how did discussions get to the black crusades - back on topic

meph is tough because he has ascended to near primarch-hood and yeah

That doesn't make any sense.
He should be tough but not as tough as he is.

But how do we know that? Maybe conquering the black rage is a milestone to being a super astares monstrous creature, as GW is master of the 40k universe and Meph's stat line says it is. I guess its just a natural hate for the space marines going around

**AlmightyWalrus**

Klawz wrote:
Lord Chiasson wrote:Abaddon where talking about the one who failed all 13 crusades right? you think he would have gotten it maybe the 3rd try right? lol

Two things:
1) He wasn't even head of all of them.

No, but he WAS head of the "big" ones, i.e. the ones with numbers.

**Footsloggin**

But how do we know that? Maybe conquering the black rage is a milestone to being a super astares monstrous creature, as GW is master of the 40k universe and Meph's stat line says it is. I guess its just a natural hate for the space marines going around

In no way, shape, or form do I hate Space Marines. What I DISLIKE about the Blood Angels/Space Wolves, is that some of their fluff is exceedingly OTT. In addition, their TT models surpass Vanilla Marines in more ways than seemed possible...

**purplefood**

Footsloggin wrote:
But how do we know that? Maybe conquering the black rage is a milestone to being a super astares monstrous creature, as GW is master of the 40k universe and Meph's stat line says it is. I guess its just a natural hate for the space marines going around

In no way, shape, or form do I hate Space Marines. What I DISLIKE about the Blood Angels/Space Wolves, is that some of their fluff is exceedingly OTT. In addition, their TT models surpass Vanilla Marines in more ways than seemed possible...

In all fairness it's mainly the TWC and Canis that have gone OTT. Without them it wouldn't really be OTT. All of the Wolf-something items were in the previous codex.

**ChocolateGork**

Klawz wrote:
lexicanum wrote:781.M31, beginning of the 1st Black Crusade aka The First Battle of Cadia.
597.M32, beginning of the 2nd Black Crusade a failed attack on defences of Cadia.
909.M32, beginning of the 3rd Black Crusade.
001.M34, beginning of the 4th Black Crusade. Destruction of the Citadel of Kromarch on El'Phanor.
723.M36, beginning of the 5th Black Crusade.
901.M36, beginning of the 6th Black Crusade.
811.M37, beginning of the 7th Black Crusade aka the Ghost War. The Blood Angels are slaughtered at Mackan.
999.M37, beginning of the 8th Black Crusade.
573.M38, beginning of the 9th Black Crusade.
001.M39, beginning of the 10th Black Crusade aka the Conflict of Helica. Iron Warriors fight the Iron Hands at Medusa.
301.M39, beginning of the 11th Black Crusade.
139.M41, beginning of the 12th Black Crusade aka the Gothic War. Abaddon the Despoiler tries to capture the Blackstone Fortresses.
999.M41, beginning of the ongoing 13th Black Crusade. Major attack on the Cadian system.
Other known Black Crusades
The Black Crusade of Tallomin. Daemon Prince Tallomin leads an attack that is crushed by the Space Wolves.1
The Black Crusade of Doombreed. Doombreed, Daemon Prince of Khorne, declares war upon the Adeptus Astartes. The Warhawks and the Venerators are lost.1
The Black Crusade of Jihar the Lacerator. Jihar the Lacerator, champion of Slaanesh, invades Imperial space but is met by stern resistance from the Mordant 13th Acid Dogs regiment of the Imperial Guard.4
The Blackstar Crusade. In M34, Lord Ekrak, a champion of Khorne, leads a crusade to conquer the world of M'Laar XIII and ascends to deamonhood. In the aftermath, the forces under his command begin to fight each other for possession of the planet.7

HE tried to get ALLLL of the Fortresses? Come on. Surely one would be enough to last through cadia. or di he want to weld them together and create TE UBERS GUN OF DETRUKTION!

**rubicant99**

In 2nd Ed it seemed overcoming the black rage turned him into a fully fledged vampire; his stats were identical to a fantasy vampire.
In the 5th edition he does seem crazy powerful, more on par with a greater daemon. Out of interest anyone know if the stats of a current vampire special character are comparable?
He's a cool character but you do have to wonder where they are going with him. Making him a daemon just seems too obvious to me; we already got a bucket load of tratior chapters with daemon princes etc.

**Samus_aran115**

Yeah, OP we know

Phisty is a loser.

**DA's Forever**

Phisty? All the Blood Angel Kids made fun of him, amiright?

**Brutii11**

Klawz wrote:the Mordant 13th Acid Dogs regiment of the Imperial Guard.

**gmaleron**

From an Imperial Guard players perspective i honestly just see another overpowered option the space marines (in this case blood angels) have at their disposal

. Chances are that i will have to face on the table top eventually, probably in the tournament i play in this upcoming January. I do frankly think that GW as a whole is focusing way to much on the Space Marines and need to start updating the other armies such as....i dont know Chaos? Necrons? Lately it seems besides the Dark Eldar that the only codexs coming out are that of space marines which means that both Chaos and the Necrons will take a back seat to the Dark Angels Codex or another marine codex.

**AlmightyWalrus**

gmaleron wrote:From an Imperial Guard players perspective i honestly just see another overpowered option the space marines (in this case blood angels) have at their disposal . Chances are that i will have to face on the table top eventually, probably in the tournament i play in this upcoming January. I do frankly think that GW as a whole is focusing way to much on the Space Marines and need to start updating the other armies such as....i dont know Chaos? Necrons? Lately it seems besides the Dark Eldar that the only codexs coming out are that of space marines which means that both Chaos and the Necrons will take a back seat to the Dark Angels Codex or another marine codex.

Necrons are being updated and Chaos is probably bar Orks the 4th edition codex that needs a new book the least. And TBH, Chaos are Space Marines too, just not as much as the loyalists.

**Luco**

gmaleron wrote:From an Imperial Guard players perspective i honestly just see another overpowered option the space marines (in this case blood angels) have at their disposal . Chances are that i will have to face on the table top eventually, probably in the tournament i play in this upcoming January. I do frankly think that GW as a whole is focusing way to much on the Space Marines and need to start updating the other armies such as....i dont know Chaos? Necrons? Lately it seems besides the Dark Eldar that the only codexs coming out are that of space marines which means that both Chaos and the Necrons will take a back seat to the Dark Angels Codex or another marine codex.

gmaleron wrote:will take a back seat to the Dark Angels Codex

please yes please yes please yes. Sorry what?

5th ed dexes.

Marines
Blood Angels
Wolves

Guard
Dark Eldar
Tyranids

Considering that Orks were built for 5th essentially we have more non marine dexs than we have marine dexs and even if we don't its an even output. the rumors in the pipe are crons, tau, grey knights, and sisters. oh look, 3 more non marine dexs to only 1 marine dex.

**theduncan**

gmaleron wrote:From an Imperial Guard players perspective i honestly just see another overpowered option the space marines (in this case blood angels) have at their disposal . Chances are that i will have to face on the table top eventually, probably in the tournament i play in this upcoming January. I do frankly think that GW as a whole is focusing way to much on the Space Marines and need to start updating the other armies such as....i dont know Chaos? Necrons? Lately it seems besides the Dark Eldar that the only codexs coming out are that of space marines which means that both Chaos and the Necrons will take a back seat to the Dark Angels Codex or another marine codex.

Imperial guard are already too OP. They don't need to be made better.

They need to be burned as heretics!

**shrike**

Luco wrote:
gmaleron wrote:will take a back seat to the Dark Angels Codex

Considering that Orks were built for 5th essentially we have more non marine dexs than we have marine dexs and even if we don't its an even output. the rumors in the pipe are crons, tau, grey knights, and sisters. oh look, 3 more non marine dexs to only 1 marine dex.

actually-
'crons- dunno anything about, IMHO just people going on about they haven't had an update in ages, that they are bound to get one soon.
GK- confirmed. They are coming.
SoB- the codex has been yanked from the shelves- a sign of the inbound new one, but then there are a few codexes coming out before then (normally in 40k codexes they go xenos, IoM, xenos, IoM, ect.
tau- see 'crons.
And although GK are technically a SM chapter, they are different in practically every way. Different weapons, recruitment technique, training, closely tied t the inquisition, ect.

**Justus**

Not everybody has Lascannons and plasma cannons :( I can say that the Deathleaper combined with SitW would hypothetically cripple his magic horrifically. Or, in a squad of Genestealers, pray that the Broodlord's Hypnotic Gaze goes off along with the Implant Attack.

P.S. See lash whips, page 83.