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Ugh, this is still going? Yes, Mephiston's stats are bad in comparison to everything else.

He's by no means the most OP thing in the codex. BA Dreadnaught spam takes the cake imo.

In order of most OTT units in C:BA:
mephiston
DS'ing LR's
Dreads hanging onto stormravens
Libby dread
DC
(IMHO)

Death Company aren't that bad, and they aren't that OTT in the fluff, Libby Dread, I don't care, Stormraven Dreads? Don't really matter, they cost a massive amount of points. Ds'ing LR? WTF?!?!?!

mephiston - yes he has mc stats but fluff wise death company gets part of sanguinus's strength from black rage, meph has overcome that and gained additional powers

DS'ing LR's - Which noone wants to do anyway....

Dreads hanging onto stormravens - new transport that will probebly make an appearence in other chapters, and whats so bad about it?

Libby dread - Its a psycher dreadnought? whats so op about that (175pts and you cant take any of the other upgrades)

DC - i thought the general consensus was that they were overpriced (at least their upgrades). Anyway fluff wise whats so bad about these guys? they get overpowered by their primarch's rage and go into battle to die

Gibbsey wrote:mephiston - yes he has mc stats but fluff wise death company gets part of sanguinus's strength from black rage, meph has overcome that and gained additional powers

DS'ing LR's - Which noone wants to do anyway....

Dreads hanging onto stormravens - new transport that will probebly make an appearence in other chapters, and whats so bad about it?

Libby dread - Its a psycher dreadnought? whats so op about that (175pts and you cant take any of the other upgrades)

DC - i thought the general consensus was that they were overpriced (at least their upgrades). Anyway fluff wise whats so bad about these guys? they get overpowered by their primarch's rage and go into battle to die

Sorry, let me revise that:
DC dreads. They are meant to go into battle once and then get executed by astorath. Then why bother keeping them alive in a dread?
Dreads on stormravens:
I have no objection to stormravens- I encourage the use of them in other MEQ codexes. But how can a massive dreadnought manage to cling on to the back of one of these aircraft while it flies at Xmph? It must make a significant change in aerodynamics and weight disposition.
Libby dreads aren't OTT much, but I find them to be simply cheesy.

shrike wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:mephiston - yes he has mc stats but fluff wise death company gets part of sanguinus's strength from black rage, meph has overcome that and gained additional powers

DS'ing LR's - Which noone wants to do anyway....

Dreads hanging onto stormravens - new transport that will probebly make an appearence in other chapters, and whats so bad about it?

Libby dread - Its a psycher dreadnought? whats so op about that (175pts and you cant take any of the other upgrades)

DC - i thought the general consensus was that they were overpriced (at least their upgrades). Anyway fluff wise whats so bad about these guys? they get overpowered by their primarch's rage and go into battle to die

Sorry, let me revise that:
DC dreads. They are meant to go into battle once and then get executed by astorath. Then why bother keeping them alive in a dread?
Dreads on stormravens:
I have no objection to stormravens- I encourage the use of them in other MEQ codexes. But how can a massive dreadnought manage to cling on to the back of one of these aircraft while it flies at Xmph? It must make a significant change in aerodynamics and weight disposition.
Libby dreads aren't OTT much, but I find them to be simply cheesy.

Astorath only executes them when they can find death in battle and are completely gone
Thats a good point on the DC Dreads.... although one of 2 things could explain it: they are either normal dreads that got the black rage or they were DC wounded but still alive and not able to fight normally, they are stored in stasis fields so that isnt a problem and they are send straight into battle. The idea of DC is for them to find death in battle, Astorath is a last resort.

Libby dreads was going to happen eventually same with chaplain dreads and aslong as they are priced correctly it wouldent be too bad (maybe...)

And Stormraven has vertical thrusters so that gives it some nice abilities, carrying a dread wouldnt really be a problem considering its size. But yeah loads of people have complained about the stormraven in general saying it wouldent fly, aslong as it has vertical thrusters at the fron aswell as on the wings it would have no problem (and even if it didnt that would only be a problem without the dread to balace it out )

Oh and a loaded out stormraven get pretty expensive (425pts for stormraven + cargo for the most basic loadout: basic Stormraven + basic assault squad + basic dread(well basic furioso))

Gibbsey wrote:

Libby dreads was going to happen eventually same with chaplain dreads and aslong as they are priced correctly it wouldent be too bad (maybe...)

With this line of thinking, does that mean in a codex or two we'll be getting Apothecary/Sanguinary Priest dreads? Have fun picking THEM out in assault

The best explanation I could give about Mephiston is that he is the only Space Marine to have actually come close to full activating his gene-seed properties. While Space Marines all have Gene-Seed almost all of them have been unable to activate their full potential. They have been given the genetic material to achieve a Primarch Level organism but the transformation has to also be psychic/mental as well as physical. Mephiston's case is that he achieved a far greater form of Gene=Seed activation but at what cost? Some speculate because of help from certain Chaos patrons, others say from Sanguinus himself but most likely Mephiston knows that he is rapidly becoming more and more into something that is not himself. Eldrad even mentions this to him face to face, he is losing grip on what and who he is as his evolution keeps going.

Zefig wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:

Libby dreads was going to happen eventually same with chaplain dreads and aslong as they are priced correctly it wouldent be too bad (maybe...)

With this line of thinking, does that mean in a codex or two we'll be getting Apothecary/Sanguinary Priest dreads? Have fun picking THEM out in assault

Mephiston Dreadnought...



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Hey, at least he'd be on a bigger base then, right? But he'd probably get AV 14 all around too. Speculating, of course.

Mephiston, Lord of cheese is crushed under another building and is entombed in a dreadnought.
BEHOLD! MEPHISTON DREADNOUGHT, LORD OF LORD OF CHEESE!
I can imagine his shoulders being pictures of: ;
firing molten onto lesser y models like Marneus "y" Calgar and thunder cavalry from his underslung template weapon!
using his psychic powers to make him fly around on wings of and fire a lance of through the enemy lines, launching shots out of his cannon and stomping on infrantry, bellowing "!" at his foes, vanquishing them, leaving nothing but the odour of rotting flesh and mouldy in his wake. y, Isn't it?

And on the pedestal these words appear:

My name is Mephiston, Lord of Cheese! Look upon my stats, ye mighty, and despair!

I was like: .
then I saw your sig.

To sum things up: there should never be a unit that forces you to tailor your list. If you dont take plasma or a boatload of lascannons as IG, you cannot stop mephiston. Lasguns and BATTLECANNONS ping off him like theres no tomorrow, mephiston eats autocannon rounds for breakfast, and even likes to eat the old demolisher round, which of course explodes when he bites it, BUT ITS OK, HE STILL HAS 4 WOUNDS LEFT!

amen.

Oh well, back to the murdering board...

coming from a vanilla marine player, Mephiston has never really scared me. I either gun him down before he reaches my lines, or Lysander beats his ass in close combat. That's right, Lysander.

...Provided one does not biff every single hit roll. Ha!

He is 250 points wrapped in a 5 wound model with no invul save. he is not that scary when you pack enough AV into your list.

Zefig wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:

Libby dreads was going to happen eventually same with chaplain dreads and aslong as they are priced correctly it wouldent be too bad (maybe...)

With this line of thinking, does that mean in a codex or two we'll be getting Apothecary/Sanguinary Priest dreads? Have fun picking THEM out in assault

Apothecary dreads? Now you're talking! Might as well just have honour guard dreads, techmarine dreads, captain dreads and biker dreads!

Captain- tend to be regular/venerable
Techmarine- Ironclad
Chaplain- chaplain
Libby- libby
DC- DC
Apothecary/priest-.......
chapter champion-.......
We'll end up with a whole army of dreads soon!

Can the Swarmlord replace a Bonescythe with a lash whip? if so, there goes Mr.Meph's high Init, and thats 3x bone sabre attacks that are instant kills.

how ID?

shrike wrote:marneus is cheesey, but not OTT or OP.
"shoot him with something big"...it would take 9 lascannons to the face to kill him.

Nooooo....he has 5 wounds, you need (at least) 5 lascannons to technically kill him, or melta, or plasma. And all of those would negate his save no?

Also, fluff-wise, the sarcophagus and the blood-drinking activates part of the gene-seed, but after being the first and only BA to throw off the Black Rage, something thought impossible, "His gene-seed, dormant these many long years, had awakened and wrought further changes, granting exceptional strength and vigour." (quoted from the codex)

shrike wrote:how ID?

Bone sabres are different than the hive tyrants boneswords, Bone Sabres, regardless of the targets toughness, inflict instant death. They get invul saves, thats it (and even units with invul saves have to re-roll any passed saves).
<3 Swarmlords long time.

a captain with a SS and a relic blade could concievably take mephistion after a bit of shooting
Background wise sanguinus did appear to him in his madness and had his true Psychic abilities unleashed(Starting to sound like that psy-corp guy in B5 Season 1) and has an eintire book in the imperial 'bible' the same as Sebastian Thor

Elector wrote:

shrike wrote:marneus is cheesey, but not OTT or OP.
"shoot him with something big"...it would take 9 lascannons to the face to kill him.

Nooooo....he has 5 wounds, you need (at least) 5 lascannons to technically kill him, or melta, or plasma. And all of those would negate his save no?

Also, fluff-wise, the sarcophagus and the blood-drinking activates part of the gene-seed, but after being the first and only BA to throw off the Black Rage, something thought impossible, "His gene-seed, dormant these many long years, had awakened and wrought further changes, granting exceptional strength and vigour." (quoted from the codex)

So he:
Got crushed under a building
Overacme the black rage
Resurfaces as the toughest, strongest space marine alive.
Killed about 50 orks with his bare hands
Now runs around throttling greater daemons with his hands and beating up carnifexes.

and that makes sense how?
and chances are with the lascannons- 9 shots- 6 hit- 5 wound- dead. 9 lascannons to kill.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:a captain with a SS and a relic blade could concievably take mephistion after a bit of shooting
Background wise sanguinus did appear to him in his madness and had his true Psychic abilities unleashed(Starting to sound like that psy-corp guy in B5 Season 1) and has an eintire book in the imperial 'bible' the same as Sebastian Thor

He's S10, and he'll probably get to reroll everything against you. One failed 3++ and you're history.

yep. The only other SM HQ I can think that can take him is:
Damocles rhino (in apocalypse- 4 ordnance barrages to the face has to hurt)
Lysander (as we already discovered)
Anyone with a vortex grenade

and you're better off with a TH/SS guy anyway- you're I5 weapon doesn't count for gak coz' he's I7.

shrike wrote:yep. The only other SM HQ I can think that can take him is:
Damocles rhino (in apocalypse- 4 ordnance barrages to the face has to hurt)
Lysander (as we already discovered)
Anyone with a vortex grenade

and you're better off with a TH/SS guy anyway- you're I5 weapon doesn't count for gak coz' he's I7.

TBH a GK BC OR GM could take him with a retinue of 3 termies with TH/SS. Since the DH thunderhammers are made of Cheese Incarnate, Mephiston only needs to take 1 wound every round until he's dead, and all the termies need to live through is the first flurry of attacks.

hmm. mathhammer time!
It'd take two grand masters to kill in a turn, one would get ID'd:
w/SS:
Meph wounds 0.77 (because of ID, 1.22 left)
GKGM wounds 1 (ID).
done!

shrike wrote:hmm. mathhammer time!
It'd take two grand masters to kill in a turn, one would get ID'd:
w/SS:
Meph wounds 0.77 (because of ID, 1.22 left)
GKGM wounds 1 (ID).
done!

And Mephiston's psychic hood?


Anyhow, suppose it was a Brother-Captain with psychic hood and his 3 buddies (TH/SS)

Scenario 1: Meph gets S10

5 Attacks, 3,333 hits (no rerolls, the BC isn't an IC until everyone else is dead and buried). Out of those 3,333, approx. 2,777 wound, rounding that to 3.

Brother-Captain snuffs it, one of the Terminators survive thanks to 4++.

Terminators attack back, 4 attacks, 2 hit, 1,666 wounds. Mephiston can't attack until the end of the next assault phase, which means that the thunder hammers hit him again next turn before he gets to attack and locks him to death.


Scenario 2: The psychic hood stops Meph's S10
Not even going to bother...