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I'm still trying to figure out why an Emo-Librarian and a 400-year old Ultramarine Chaplain are somehow tougher than fething Typhus...

IsTyphus that tough at all?
Or just immune to nurgles 'gifts'.....


Typhus was the first to give in to nurgle, can't be a tough guy IMO

1hadhq wrote:IsTyphus that tough at all?

Are you kidding? The 10,000+ year old Nurgle Terminator Sorcerer Lord, a guy referred to as Nurgle's Herald, who was the original as far as Nurgle-blessed (such as it is) Space Marines... and there's an argument in there somewhere that an angry Librarian and old Chaplain could be tougher than him? Really???

No what we really have here is a failure to communicate - one Codex designer to the next. The 'Chaos' Codex is from the Jervis Era, where being a special character just meant that your Power Weapon was either Master Crafted or gave you +1S. The Marine Codex (and every Codex after it) is from the Post-Jervis Era, where Special Characters are crazygonuts and full of win and stupid. This is why we have T6 Chaplains and Daemon Prince Librarians when Chaos players are stuck with Typhus Weakling of Nurgle.

yep.
But the eras are more defined:

Jervis-era IoM, where SC's were +1S and better wargear.
Jervis-era xenos, where SC's were +1S or better wargear.
Modern IoM, where SC's are +2S, I, T, A, much better wargear and a billion special rules.
Modern xenos (from 3rd ed. codexes), where SC's are +2S, T, I, A, much better wargear and a billion special rules.
Modern xenos (from 4th ed. cedexes), where SC's are +1S, T, I, A, better wargear and a million special rules.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I'm still trying to figure out why an Emo-Librarian and a 400-year old Ultramarine Chaplain are somehow tougher than fething Typhus...

They believe in the Emprah. This solves a lot of inconsistencies and rule issues in all the SM codices.

n0t_u wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:I'm still trying to figure out why an Emo-Librarian and a 400-year old Ultramarine Chaplain are somehow tougher than fething Typhus...

They believe in the Emprah. This solves a lot of inconsistencies and rule issues in all the SM codices.

well, chaos believe in the emprah, coz' in the 40k universe he is real. whether they worship him or believe he's a god/demi-god....

Fluff: Typhus fell first. The first to fall would be the weakest link in a chain, thus I doubt he deserves to be the 'toughest'.

Game: Were post-Jervis? Maybe chaos just needs M.Ward to write its codex (like he did SM and BA) , including the danger to find them on a 'renegade' course
again and one of these 'renegades' (obviously a former Ultramarine or since that won't happen of Gullymans geneseed) will be the super-awesome SC of cheese
to wield the superior statline of a God.

OTOH, chaos is unimportant in 5th ed, we get hungry space bugs, dark space elfs and undead in space to replace them as major threat to the IoM.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I'm still trying to figure out why an Emo-Librarian and a 400-year old Ultramarine Chaplain are somehow tougher than fething Typhus...

Amen. As a dedicated Death Guard player I often find myself hugging myself and weeping when preparing for a battle. The Boss having T4(5) and no EW really makes you hate anything with S8+...

Being the first to fall doesn't make him any less tough, than the last to fall, afterall it was more about belief and will power than physical pains.

But hey, carry on harping on the first to fall is the weakest

H.B.M.C. wrote:

1hadhq wrote:IsTyphus that tough at all?

Are you kidding? The 10,000+ year old Nurgle Terminator Sorcerer Lord, a guy referred to as Nurgle's Herald, who was the original as far as Nurgle-blessed (such as it is) Space Marines... and there's an argument in there somewhere that an angry Librarian and old Chaplain could be tougher than him? Really???

No what we really have here is a failure to communicate - one Codex designer to the next. The 'Chaos' Codex is from the Jervis Era, where being a special character just meant that your Power Weapon was either Master Crafted or gave you +1S. The Marine Codex (and every Codex after it) is from the Post-Jervis Era, where Special Characters are crazygonuts and full of win and stupid. This is why we have T6 Chaplains and Daemon Prince Librarians when Chaos players are stuck with Typhus Weakling of Nurgle.

Chaos got some good special characters you failed to mention such as Abbadon and Kharn. The main difference being they are not force multipliers like Logan Grimnar or Vulkan.

Yeah, great, I'm not talking about good Special Characters. I'm talking about why a Nurgle Special Character is somehow not as tough as an Angry Librarian and an Elderly Chaplain.

Yep.
Oh yeah- I noticed that in pretty much every rulebook and codex that I've read concerning the HH that sanguinius got killed by horus, the emperor killed horus- rumoured to be through a chink in horus's armour- though no one will ever be sure."
Except in C:BA, it says the emperor killed horus through a chink in the armour, that it is fact. That's a bit contradictory.

@shrike: changed the subject


a) ortan cassius = more machine than marine > T6
b) the marine formerly known as Calistarius = activated geneseed > T6


Conclusion: Callas typhon, lacks the bionic parts and has not evolved to fully activate the geneseed.

The best part is people will gleefully excuse meph's cheesiness then in the very next breath complain about Tyranid monstrous creatures being too tough. It's fantastic. I can only imagine how much a Trygon wishes his base was 25mm and he could hide behind a Termagant for a cover save.

Wait people complain about how "tough" the nid MCs are now?

n0t_u wrote:Wait people complain about how "tough" the nid MCs are now?

Yes because carnifex's are so underpriced and tervigons are amazing in close combat

Gibbsey wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Wait people complain about how "tough" the nid MCs are now?

Yes because carnifex's are so underpriced and tervigons are amazing in close combat

I agree with gmaleron, and i play Blood Angels. Even though the BA were in desperate need of a update, GW spends entirely too much time on Space Marines in general. I have a secondary Necron army i never play due to the fact they are grossly out of date and have a friend who never plays his awesome chaos army for the same reason. Nec's, Chaos, Tau, and many more are neglected races that contribute alot to the game, and the fluf of 40k but are next to ignored by players because they are next to ignored by GW. Also they spend to much time comming out with a entiry new edition/rules every other year rather then just sticking with a set of rules, and issueing small updates and changes as needed.

It's all in the marketing. I don't wanna be a flamer or anything, but I don't like DOW. The game is great, but why release a game (DOW2), then 6 months later release a new one with exactly the same stuff and +2 races? It's not worth it IMO.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah, great, I'm not talking about good Special Characters. I'm talking about why a Nurgle Special Character is somehow not as tough as an Angry Librarian and an Elderly Chaplain.

Because Matt Ward says so, and his word is the Emprah's.

H.B.M.C. wrote:No what we really have here is a failure to communicate - one Codex designer to the next. The 'Chaos' Codex is from the Jervis Era, where being a special character just meant that your Power Weapon was either Master Crafted or gave you +1S. The Marine Codex (and every Codex after it) is from the Post-Jervis Era, where Special Characters are crazygonuts and full of win and stupid. This is why we have T6 Chaplains and Daemon Prince Librarians when Chaos players are stuck with Typhus Weakling of Nurgle.

+1 to this. HBMC has hit the nail on the head.

Just wait until you get a new chaos dex. He'll be stronger, or retconned.. not sure which

hehe Skulltaker is the answer

Easy enough, throw a shadow field archon with an agonizer in there. I don't believe he nullifies invulnerable saves, and getting to him is certainly not a problem as long as you have your wet-cardboard steed hovering about.

Wound on a 4+, decent number of attacks, odds of getting insta-gibbed are there if you roll a 1, but it's still a damn decent option to best him in close-combat. Plus if you've got a soul trap, you've just become something approaching a god, what with the addition of a pain token!

Sounds like a winning strategy to me.

Fluff-wise, I honestly don't see a horrible problem with it. It's just the next step in the Blood Angels already rampant mutations. I wouldn't be surprised if they got branded traitor sometime soon.

I'm with many people in that I think Mephhy is no longer Mephhy... I believe hes a DP in disguise after his brush with the deepest depths of the black rage. Perhaps he broke and made a deal with some beast of the warp to make the pain go away? who knows. I agree that his stats are a little dumb; but hell, for 250 points, a lot of stuff can kill him. Last week I managed to down him in 1 turn; 1 SR blood missile, 1 TLMM shot, 1 lascannon shot, and 2 meltas, and he dropped it like its hot... even tho he'd eaten a libby, a priest, a 10 man AM squad, and a predator before he bit it. Of course, my TH/SS termis ate 30 marines, 2 priests, and a rhino and only lost 1 termi all game @_@ Them's the breaks!

Hearing everyone rage about Mephy and how much of a ball he is has convinced me to use him. Models been purchased, MEPHISTON SHALL CONQUER ALL

Lax, big cheese ball... enough so that I try to field him as much as possible. If only to further the legend that is Mephiston. Come to think about it, I may even start a thread about Mephy's table accomplishments; for example in one game I charged a unit of 10 Khorne Zerkers and Kharne with Mephy and killed them all, only to move on and wipe out a unit of Raptors before he finally fell to las fire.

when did he actually go OP when they were writing his rules?

it wasn't the high WS.
it wasn't the high T
it wasn't even the high number of Wounds or ability to use wings, sword, rage.

they had to go and actually give him Fleet....Fleet as well...its like they said lets throw in the kitchen sink, dish washer and what the hell a brand new Car.

Fleet just made him OP because even if you counter his wings he is going to run you down and curb stomp you anyway.

I like it when people use it though. 250 less points of Death Company to worry about.

I've fought against him 3 times
The first time I was my orks and I figured out on the second turn that there was absolutely nothing I had on the table that could fight him, so I ignored him. He did alot of killing, but I did alot of TROOP killing and ended up winning based on objectives.

But I have since switched to mainly playing my Salamanders and my solution now to him is a simple one...Terminators... specifically my Salamander Assault Terminators with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields. My 5 man squad whooped up on him both times and one of the times he charged them.

I am in love with Salamander Assault terminators, there are not alot of things in this game that 5 of them can't own.