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Amaya wrote:I was under the impression that the breaking point for the colonists was taxation without representation.
I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of peopled pissed off at the government's desire to constantly up taxes for programs that continue to not work. Not every American is on board with the idea of having the government redistribute wealth.
There's a portion of the country that is for some socialist program. There's a portion that is adamantly against it. The two view points are extreme opposites and can not be resolved with words. There will be blood, it is only a matter of when and how much.
You know, talking and compromise (see: previous post about Ben Franklin) have worked pretty well for a while, now, and are working fairly well right now.
warpcrafter wrote:One down, how many left until the powers that be get the message? Corruption and greed have gotten too strong a hold on this country for peaceable means to work any more.
Glad to know shooting freshly elected people in supermarkets is your idea of rebellion. May you experience what you advocate one day!
----------------
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
Gen. Lee Losing wrote:Just wanted to thank everyone on this thread that said, and I am paraphrasing here... "Dur-Hur! Republicans are dumb and evil! LOL Teabaggers!"
That is the kind of compassionate and intelligent conversation that I come to Dakka to read!
On the grounds that a democrat was shot, we "obviously know" Sara Pailn and GW Bush are behind it!
I live in one of the most conservative states in the union, I deserve to be able to mock the people that I have to listen to every day online, because yes, I hear people blame Obama for all of their problems these days. Lose your job? It's Obama's fault. A thief took something from your home? Obama's fault. Your car engine failed? Obama's fault. Your doctor prescribed you expensive medication? Obama's fault. "Messicans takin' arr jobs"? Obama's fault.
Just like with people blaming Bush when he was president, oddly enough.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/08 22:22:19
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Impossible. Everyone knows that every single Muslim is trying to destroy the Western World, including christianity. I mean, they worship Mohammad, and he was trying to create war, and he hates peace loving people, right?
This is sarcasm. Please do not think that I am really that ignorant.
Melissia wrote:I live in one of the most conservative states in the union, I deserve to be able to mock the people that I have to listen to every day online, because yes, I hear people blame Obama for all of their problems these days. Lose your job? It's Obama's fault. A thief took something from your home? Obama's fault. Your car engine failed? Obama's fault. Your doctor prescribed you expensive medication? Obama's fault. "Messicans takin' arr jobs"? Obama's fault.
Just like with people blaming Bush when he was president, oddly enough.
I would expect that being surrounded by idiocy, you would avoid the cheap mockery and go for sound reasoning. Much like being out at sea and wanting fresh water. We may disagree on politics, but I always respect intelligent arguments.
edit- quote function
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/08 22:26:43
Gen. Lee Losing wrote:I would expect that being surrounded by idiocy, you would avoid the cheap mockery and go for sound reasoning.
I'll save my well thought out, well worded, logical arguments for people who I actually respect.
Besides, everyone has to relieve stress somehow. Not everything has to be dead serious.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Amaya wrote:I was under the impression that the breaking point for the colonists was taxation without representation.
I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of peopled pissed off at the government's desire to constantly up taxes for programs that continue to not work. Not every American is on board with the idea of having the government redistribute wealth.
There's a portion of the country that is for some socialist program. There's a portion that is adamantly against it. The two view points are extreme opposites and can not be resolved with words. There will be blood, it is only a matter of when and how much.
You know, talking and compromise (see: previous post about Ben Franklin) have worked pretty well for a while, now, and are working fairly well right now.
Yeah, I heard that talking and comprimising went over really well in the 1860s.
There will always be factions that do not want to talk. It's sad, but you have to be realistic about it. America is not going to make a major change in any direction without growing pains. Right now we're in limbo. Once one side gains a significant upperhand words will be replaced with weapons.
warpcrafter wrote:One down, how many left until the powers that be get the message? Corruption and greed have gotten too strong a hold on this country for peaceable means to work any more.
Glad to know shooting freshly elected people in supermarkets is your idea of rebellion. May you experience what you advocate one day!
It's not pretty, but sometimes that's the only sort of message that can be sent. Besides, she did vote for Obamacare, and even though I'm in no way a Palin supporter, I recognize institutionalized evil when I see it. Stop being such sheeple.
Gen. Lee Losing wrote:Just wanted to thank everyone on this thread that said, and I am paraphrasing here... "Dur-Hur! Republicans are dumb and evil! LOL Teabaggers!"
That is the kind of compassionate and intelligent conversation that I come to Dakka to read!
On the grounds that a democrat was shot, we "obviously know" Sara Pailn and GW Bush are behind it!
I live in one of the most conservative states in the union, I deserve to be able to mock the people that I have to listen to every day online, because yes, I hear people blame Obama for all of their problems these days. Lose your job? It's Obama's fault. A thief took something from your home? Obama's fault. Your car engine failed? Obama's fault. Your doctor prescribed you expensive medication? Obama's fault. "Messicans takin' arr jobs"? Obama's fault.
Just like with people blaming Bush when he was president, oddly enough.
Obama doesn't get blamed half as much as Bush did. Everyone disliked or hated Bush. We're not quite at that point with Obama.
Amaya wrote:I was under the impression that the breaking point for the colonists was taxation without representation.
I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of peopled pissed off at the government's desire to constantly up taxes for programs that continue to not work. Not every American is on board with the idea of having the government redistribute wealth.
There's a portion of the country that is for some socialist program. There's a portion that is adamantly against it. The two view points are extreme opposites and can not be resolved with words. There will be blood, it is only a matter of when and how much.
You know, talking and compromise (see: previous post about Ben Franklin) have worked pretty well for a while, now, and are working fairly well right now.
Yeah, I heard that talking and comprimising went over really well in the 1860s.
There will always be factions that do not want to talk. It's sad, but you have to be realistic about it. America is not going to make a major change in any direction without growing pains. Right now we're in limbo. Once one side gains a significant upperhand words will be replaced with weapons.
You see, before the Civil War (we'll have to rely on Melissia for debates about what actually started it) the Federal Gov't was kind of screwing the South and ignoring its requests and only pandering to northern industrial interests. Conservatives and Liberals have actually existed ever since the first income tax was created, it is just that right now, several of them have become extremely public, vocal, and stupid.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/08 22:33:20
warpcrafter wrote:One down, how many left until the powers that be get the message? Corruption and greed have gotten too strong a hold on this country for peaceable means to work any more.
Glad to know shooting freshly elected people in supermarkets is your idea of rebellion. May you experience what you advocate one day!
It's not pretty, but sometimes that's the only sort of message that can be sent. Besides, she did vote for Obamacare, and even though I'm in no way a Palin supporter, I recognize institutionalized evil when I see it. Stop being such sheeple.
I'm not sure you could recognize an industrialized chair from the thing you put on it, but thats neither here nor there. Just judging from past posting habits.
Obama doesn't get blamed half as much as Bush did. Everyone disliked or hated Bush. We're not quite at that point with Obama.
Conservatives blame him for everything, it's quite like what happened with bush and the liberals. He hasn't screwed up as much in office and we haven't been thrown into any wars yet, but the reality never really matters. People blame the other side because its easy, not because its always logical.
----------------
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
micahaphone wrote:(we'll have to rely on Melissia for debates about what actually started it)
You realize that I was merely arguing that there was more than one reason for the war, and slavery was one of them? Yes? Good, I'm glad you're intelligent enough to figure that out
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote:I'll save my well thought out, well worded, logical arguments for people who I actually respect.
Besides, everyone has to relieve stress somehow. Not everything has to be dead serious.
How do you know that all those 'un-respectable idiots' aren't doing the same with you?
I don't mean to single you out. I am just saying that the condescension from one side fuels the anger from the less educated on the other. (Both ways)
Calling someone a teabagger is a sure fire way to make them want to sock you in the jaw.
Gen. Lee Losing wrote:How do you know that all those 'un-respectable idiots' aren't doing the same with you?
Because I don't speak my opinions to them, therefor they think I agree with them.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
micahaphone wrote:(we'll have to rely on Melissia for debates about what actually started it)
You realize that I was merely arguing that there was more than one reason for the war, and slavery was one of them? Yes? Good, I'm glad you're intelligent enough to figure that out
Hey, just saying that you were pretty darn good at explaining that to the nonbelievers (in multiple causes)
Amaya wrote:What started it was Lincon unlawfully invading a sovereign nation.
The south was a sovereign nation now? The whole debate is chicken and egg anyway, the south both lost, was economically dysfunctional before that, and was morally reprehensible before that. What started it at this time is truly irrelevant, what matters now that it passed long long ago is who was right. It certainly wasn't the semi industrialized agrarian south that relied on slavery to maintain its economy.
----------------
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
micahaphone wrote:Well, the South DID formally secede, so you could call it a sovereign nation.
You can't really "formally" secede without the consent of the other part of the country you are seceding from. Otherwise there would be twice as many countries in africa.
----------------
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
Amaya wrote:What started it was Lincon unlawfully invading a sovereign nation.
The south was a sovereign nation now? The whole debate is chicken and egg anyway, the south both lost, was economically dysfunctional before that, and was morally reprehensible before that. What started it at this time is truly irrelevant, what matters now that it passed long long ago is who was right. It certainly wasn't the semi industrialized agrarian south that relied on slavery to maintain its economy.
1) By that logic the original USA was morally rephrensible because they had slavery and denied voting rights to all but a select group of white males.
2) Slavery was not as significant as the pro-Union history books made it out to be. Lincoln was a racist utterly convinced that the black man was inferior to him all ways. They also like to ignore the wage slavery taking place in the North, the disgusting war crimes perpetrated against the South, the fact that the Union fought their war with drafted poor/immigrants as opposed to an army of patriots, etc.
Yes, slavery is wrong. Does it justify invading, raping, and pillaging a nation?
warpcrafter wrote:One down, how many left until the powers that be get the message? Corruption and greed have gotten too strong a hold on this country for peaceable means to work any more.
So we have a sombody actively praising illegal activity, the murdering of children and homicidal violence and they aren't banned?
Seriously Dakka, seriously...
And seriously Warpcrafter perhaps pretend to have some basic level of common sense or decency, no matter how difficult it might be for someone like you...
I am horrified thinking about the little girl that was murdered...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/01/08 23:09:04
Amaya wrote:What started it was Lincon unlawfully invading a sovereign nation.
The south was a sovereign nation now? The whole debate is chicken and egg anyway, the south both lost, was economically dysfunctional before that, and was morally reprehensible before that. What started it at this time is truly irrelevant, what matters now that it passed long long ago is who was right. It certainly wasn't the semi industrialized agrarian south that relied on slavery to maintain its economy.
If you are from the south, then yes it was a sovereign nation. And the war is still called "The War of Northern Aggression" in some places.
But don't worry, I'm sure he'll forget about it in three minutes.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
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... dang." 
The Undying Spawn of Shub-Niggurath