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micahaphone wrote:There ARE normal people who are members of the Tea Party;

Lulz...

IF you wear a whote robe and a hood it is pretty clear what your beliefs are. IF you declare yourself a "teabagger" it is just as clear...

If in my area a group existed that was a collection of racists, warmongering, fearmongering, xenophobic, religious extremists I wouldn't associate with them NOR identify myself by their name regardless of how many minor issues I might agree with them on.

IF it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and all...

CT GAMER wrote:

micahaphone wrote:There ARE normal people who are members of the Tea Party;

Lulz...

IF you wear a whote robe and a hood it is pretty clear what your beliefs are. IF you declare yourself a "teabagger" it is just as clear...

If in my area a group existed that was a collection of racists, warmongering, fearmongering, xenophobic, religious extremists I wouldn't associate with them NOR identify myself by their name regardless of how many minor issues I might agree with them on.

IF it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and all...

I'm all for hyperbole as a sentence enhancer and all but that might be going a bit too far.

The average tea party member I've seen is one of those moronic nutjobs still going on about how Obama supposedly isn't a citizen, how Obama wants to make everyone's health care costs quadruple, and how Obama wants to send soldiers out naked into Afghanistan wielding paint guns against the Taliban (They also don't actually understand what the Taliban really is...)

Most of the Teaparty people I have met are not racist or evil people, but generally ones that don't have a high level of political efficacy (oh how I love that term). A good number of them at the rally I saw were though.

In fairness, at the moment there is nothing directly linking the suspect to the tea party movement, and by it's nature as a fairly vague catch all movement, it's difficult to be sure anyway. He seems to have been a pretty disturbed guy.
He killed a federal judge, as well as all those other people, so does that mean he'll be in for the death penalty? I had gotten the impression Arizona isn't soft on this sort of thing.

Da Boss wrote:In fairness, at the moment there is nothing directly linking the suspect to the tea party movement, and by it's nature as a fairly vague catch all movement, it's difficult to be sure anyway. He seems to have been a pretty disturbed guy.
He killed a federal judge, as well as all those other people, so does that mean he'll be in for the death penalty? I had gotten the impression Arizona isn't soft on this sort of thing.

Federal death penalty. The alleged shooter has been linked to the so-called American Renaissance movement. There is venn diagram like overlap with this fringe and the tea party.

The loudest members of any group tend to get heard.

I found myself agreeing with Peter's original posts in this thread and it turned out to be someone who was "angry at the system" as predicted. This whole ordeal is very sad, though it's important to learn everything we can from what happens rather than pointlessly throwing blame at people.

Side note, I keep hearing MSI's Mark David Chapman the more I read here.

Melissia wrote:

Gen. Lee Losing wrote:Just wanted to thank everyone on this thread that said, and I am paraphrasing here... "Dur-Hur! Republicans are dumb and evil! LOL Teabaggers!"

That is the kind of compassionate and intelligent conversation that I come to Dakka to read!

On the grounds that a democrat was shot, we "obviously know" Sara Pailn and GW Bush are behind it!

I live in one of the most conservative states in the union, I deserve to be able to mock the people that I have to listen to every day online, because yes, I hear people blame Obama for all of their problems these days. Lose your job? It's Obama's fault. A thief took something from your home? Obama's fault. Your car engine failed? Obama's fault. Your doctor prescribed you expensive medication? Obama's fault. "Messicans takin' arr jobs"? Obama's fault.

Just like with people blaming Bush when he was president, oddly enough.

I wish this was hyperbole, but I've heard nearly all of these statements actually made by members of my family. Even the car engine failed one (made jokingly at least). Some people really are this bad.

They will likely seek the death penalty at any rate. Whether they will get it is anyone's guess.

Insanity plea?

Please remember that you can criticize a group or a political position without smearing or personally insulting every member of that group.

Can we try to bring the tone up a little in here?

News report on TV just said the same thing about Giffords: critical, following some commands. Listed 6 dead, 14 injured in this incident.

Regardless of your political beliefs, this is a senseless tragedy perpetrated by a crazy person. Even if he was influenced by the rhetoric of any particular political group or TV personality (Palin, Beck), that does not make them responsible for his senseless actions. I do hope that politicians affiliated with or supported by the Tea Party wil also speak out against this terrible act, and make clear to the more extremist of their followers that they truly do not supoort violence.

Gen. Lee Losing wrote:Others have tried to take insults and "own them" to take the power away from it. But again, shouting out "Teabagger!" (an insult derived from a sexual act) them moment anything not "left" of the american spectrum shows up only brings the conversation down.

If you're capable of taking ownership of an insult, then it isn't an insult at all. Insults depend upon emotional resonance in order to be what they are, without that resonance they're merely descriptive; falsely or not.

micahaphone wrote:
They are a political party with a very conservative outlook.

The Tea Party isn't a political party. Political parties have platforms, and some semblance of organization. The Tea Party is basically a subset of the Republican and Libertarian parties.

I do believe that Palin has already issued a statement/apology, which is good.

Mannahnin wrote:
I do hope that politicians affiliated with or supported by the Tea Party wil also speak out against this terrible act, and make clear to the more extremist of their followers that they truly do not supoort violence.

The response of politicians has been fairly uniform; basically a riff on "this is a tragedy".

The supporters, of both the left and the right, on the other hand, have been almost tragically ridiculous. The left has largely been guilty of misplacing blame for the attack on the right, and the right has largely been guilty of reading speculation as accusation; which is all the more tragic in my mind, because there are just so many liberal commentators that aren't speculating, but accusing.

The whole situation is just one more example of how polarized the nation is. Very few people are taking the time to actually read, or listen, and are simply being swept along by a few select words.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

micahaphone wrote:I do believe that Palin has already issued a statement/apology, which is good.

Yeah, she's in a tough spot because Giffords called her out on the violent images that cross-hairs elicit.

micahaphone wrote:I do believe that Palin has already issued a statement/apology, which is good.

Yah, but as of Saturday, that poster was still on her facebook page.

This is a tragedy. I hope the shooter is killed slowly and painfully. Why would you want this congresswomen dead? It's mind boggling. I weep for that little girls parents. I read in the paper this morning that the injured count was up to 19. Also, has anyone else heard of threats now being published about other senators and congressmen/women. The Seattle Times had an article on Patty Murray receiving a few threats herself.

I'm reading that democrats have used similar tactics before, with bullseyes and so on.

I hope Rep. Giffords recovers. It seems impossible that she could be shot in the head and not suffer ill effects, but I still hope that that is the case!

You can recover from some head injuries. It's possible.

Da Boss wrote:It seems impossible that she could be shot in the head and not suffer ill effects, but I still hope that that is the case!

Its happened before, but nearly everyone that suffers that kind of head trauma undergoes significant personality changes, at the very least.

If she goes through this unscathed, its a fething miracle. And there would be some hope in all of this.

Man, she's a friggin' tank. Surviving a shot to the head, she must be a terminator, reprogrammed by Joe Biden in the far future, sent back to set us on a path to a brighter future.

Mannahnin wrote: I do hope that politicians affiliated with or supported by the Tea Party wil also speak out against this terrible act, and make clear to the more extremist of their followers that they truly do not supoort violence.

How long can the avergae human hold his breathe?
.

Lets hope they will indeed tone back the rhetoric and rein in their rather vocal stable of militant loonies rather then squeeze this for whatever political capital they can gather...

CT GAMER wrote:If this was a liberal Dem psycho that had committed this act Fox News and and all the usual Rep attack dogs would have already been calling for impeachment of Obama claiming that he had somehow incited the violence and declaring it a terrorist act, etc., etc....

I really don't think this is the case.

Anyone with any sense and decency is just calling this event a tragedy and isn't trying to score political points with it.

micahaphone wrote:Man, she's a friggin' tank. Surviving a shot to the head, she must be a terminator, reprogrammed by Joe Biden in the far future, sent back to set us on a path to a brighter future.

"Come with me if you want health care."

MR: I think checking the comment sections of most of the articles floating around would sadly burst your benevolent bubble. There's some disgustingly acidic stuff getting posted about this.

A cop buddy of mine took two in the head and survived. The first scraped off his skull and the other lodged behind his ear and sat there waiting patiently for the surgeon to remove it.

Da Boss wrote:MR: I think checking the comment sections of most of the articles floating around would sadly burst your benevolent bubble. There's some disgustingly acidic stuff getting posted about this.

There's some pretty hideous things in this thread.

I don't think the comments posted by news site users are generally from the nation's best and brightest though.

You might be surprised at how many intelligent, articulate people lose all sense when discussing American politics.

What? Dogma, I really have a hard time believing th-BLAME THE VICTIM!

Seriously though, I don't think you'll see too many mainstream political figures blaming each other for this.

Monster Rain wrote:What? Dogma, I really have a hard time believing th-BLAME THE VICTIM!

I never found him to be terribly intelligent, but he was articulate.

Monster Rain wrote:
Seriously though, I don't think you'll see too many mainstream political figures blaming each other for this.

Yeah, its a no win situation.

Though I guarantee that there were some very tense Republican politicians before the suspect was named.

dogma wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:What? Dogma, I really have a hard time believing th-BLAME THE VICTIM!

I never found him to be terribly intelligent, but he was articulate.

I may have been overly focused on the "lost all sense" bit.

dogma wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:
Seriously though, I don't think you'll see too many mainstream political figures blaming each other for this.

Yeah, its a no win situation.

Though I guarantee that there were some very tense Republican politicians before the suspect was named.

Oh absolutely. I would just hope that no matter what the political affiliation of a murdered public figure is that the focus of the discussion wouldn't be assigning blame to groups that you happen to disagree with.

Sure. Although people who have used violent and gun-oriented rhetoric in regards to political disagreements should be taking a hard look at themselves right now.

Whether it's Palin's "reload" slogan and crosshairs, or the idiots in TX who were talking about secession or armed resistance to laws they disagreed with. There has been a lot of really extreme rhetoric in the last two and a half years about fascism, death panels, resistance by any means necessary, etc. And that stuff has all been coming from one side.