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I'm thinking he may have been on of the intenet trolls on Yahoo or aol that turns everything into a slam against democrats. Who started beliving his own hag wash. Grown ups know whats just political trash speak. An angry 22 year old raised on Violent games with possible military stress and hyped up on radio jock talk, ends up like this.

"She should be shot" turns into "we should shoot her", in his mind.

I don't blame Video games PTS or radio shock jocks, or even guns. I'm just saying they can make a nut case do something stupid

@Shuma: You really do not understand the basic rules of politics, do you? When you have frag tons of people gathered outside a governmental building while a key piece of legislation is being voted upon, and that piece of legislation passes with almost all the member of one party voting for it, people are bound to become angry.

Especially when they are told that that legislation would kill their grandparents and bankrupt the country (both untrue) by the opposing political party that had no interest in passing a health reform bill because it would give the other side a political victory (exactly who had no interest in compromise here?). Like I said, they are woefully uninformed by a party that breaks its bread on misinforming its base to elicit emotional reactions. You can gather a hundred thousand idiots to stand outside a building. It's not hard. Code pink does it all the time. It doesn't mean they are right.

As Michaphone said, compromise is key, Governments should NEVER try to pass a large, life changing law all at once, people will only become hostile and fearful.

Except thats how those things are done. Remember the patriot act? Two governmental declarations of armed conflict? There were plenty of people protesting those, and you know what? The democrats didn't go around saying that wiretapping would kill your family. Thats the difference. Conservatives trade in lies.

Move to fast, expect trouble. Basic rule of politics that applies to any kind of huge bill, good or bad.

There was over a year of public debate on the bill and its mockups had been public for just as long. If thats moving too fast then the conservative party is built out of a bunch of (i'm not allowed to use this word in this way).

And...well, didn't Obama get elected at least partially on healthcare reform? Not to drag this off topic.

Edit 2: Mods got mad at me for the past version of this post, though I don't know why. Changed it anyways.

_Tim?

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Edit: Screw this, I am sick of talking to narrow minded people. Bleh. I leave this thread in peace.

_Tim?

And I'm sick of talking to conservatives who don't understand how democracy works and can't understand the concept of yellow journalism. Glad to see you go.

Peter Wiggin wrote:A populace pushed to the breaking point will take matters into their own hands.

bs, the populace isn't "at the breaking point", it's just a few nutjob extremists who are. This idiot isn't a representative of the majority of the population.

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Edit: Screw this, I am sick of talking to narrow minded people. Bleh. I leave this thread in peace.

_Tim?

Hear yeh hear yeh, Baron Pot of the province Kettle has made his proclamation of Blackness!

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

The principle on which our country was founded. Working as intended I dare say.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Edit: Screw this, I am sick of talking to narrow minded people. Bleh. I leave this thread in peace.

_Tim?

And I'm sick of talking to conservatives who don't understand how democracy works and can't understand the concept of yellow journalism. Glad to see you go.

Well thank you for that (sarcasm). I usually side with the liberal democrats, but blaming the other guys and refusing to see the bad part of your own party, or the fact that the other side has some good points is, just like assassinations, bad for the country.

I'm kind of surprised on anarchists jumped on me for that first post.

Melissia wrote:

Peter Wiggin wrote:A populace pushed to the breaking point will take matters into their own hands.

bs, the populace isn't "at the breaking point", it's just a few nutjob extremists who are. This idiot isn't a representative of the majority of the population.

Enough of it that this mentality took root, grew, and resulted in direct action. Not a majority, but then one doesn't generally see the majority engaged in acts of terrorism against the country they live in.

Or am I missing the mark?

Peter Wiggin wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Peter Wiggin wrote:A populace pushed to the breaking point will take matters into their own hands.

bs, the populace isn't "at the breaking point", it's just a few nutjob extremists who are. This idiot isn't a representative of the majority of the population.

Enough of it that this mentality took root, grew, and resulted in direct action. Not a majority, but then one doesn't generally see the majority engaged in acts of terrorism against the country they live in.

Or am I missing the mark?

Please, give an example of what would cause this man to be disenfranchised.

Leon Czolgosz killed the president in a period of expansion and unrest. Does this make him a Representative of the people, Mr. Wiggin?

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
The principle on which our country was founded. Working as intended I dare say.

Please, you're making tons of unfounded assumptions, even more than my assumption on what the killer was.

All it takes is one SINGLE motivated person with a gun to have an assassination happen. Just one. One person, one opinion, one state of agitation. One person, one mentally unstable bastard is not representative of the feelings of 300 million others, they're just representative of themselves. People murder others all the time, it just so happened that this time it was someone whose name might be recognized by more than a dozen people so now you're attempting to assign a greater meaning to it, doing a disservice to the deceased and the country as a whole all the while.

You tell 'em, Melissia! That's the truth, right there, Ladies and Gents!

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
The principle on which our country was founded. Working as intended I dare say.

So, either you're saying that the woman was a tyrant, or that the saying means that patriots have to be killed by crazy people every now and then. Genius.

No, the system itself is the tyrant. As such we all represent both the patriot and the blood that must be spilled. Purely allegorical mind you, but then again its from a pretty complicated man.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:Please, you're making tons of unfounded assumptions, even more than my assumption on what the killer was.

All it takes is one SINGLE motivated person with a gun to have an assassination happen. Just one. One person, one opinion, one state of agitation. One person, one mentally unstable bastard is not representative of the feelings of 300 million others, they're just representative of themselves. People murder others all the time, it just so happened that this time it was someone whose name might be recognized by more than a dozen people so now you're attempting to assign a greater meaning to it, doing a disservice to the deceased and the country as a whole all the while.

A politician is by definition a symbol that has greater meaning than the average citizen. That is the mantle they take on themselves. IF (and yes it is an if) there was political motivation behind the killer's action then this murder does have a greater meaning than the crack head that got shot over 3 vials. At least in the sense of the impact it has on the society in which it happened.

The system itself? Someone's sounding a little anarchist, here.

Peter Wiggin wrote:

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Edit: Screw this, I am sick of talking to narrow minded people. Bleh. I leave this thread in peace.

_Tim?

Hear yeh hear yeh, Baron Pot of the province Kettle has made his proclamation of Blackness!

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

The principle on which our country was founded. Working as intended I dare say.

Yeah, and all the tea-baggers are doing are trying to equate their struggle with that of the British subjets who founded this country. Sorry, two different levels of severity...

Peter Wiggin wrote:A politician is by definition a symbol that has greater meaning than the average citizen.

A politician is also just another person in the end. A murderer is, too.

This politician person was murdered by a murderer person. The murderer is not representative of the population of the USA. He's not even representative of the conservative portion. He's not even really representative of the ignorant, stupid, and completely obtuse far right wing conservatives that still, to this day, argue that Obama isn't a natural born citizen.

No, the system itself is the tyrant. As such we all represent both the patriot and the blood that must be spilled. Purely allegorical mind you, but then again its from a pretty complicated man.

No. No, thats a pretty literal historical quote. It means what it says. You can use it in a more distributed maner, but it doesn't really reflect the intention of the original speaker.

So when a Member of congress is gunned down and kids and judges murdered, that's democracy at work? I thought that is the opposite of democracy when you can just vote them out in 2 years. Remember when there was talk of texas leaving the union, how about in Florida with that "If votes won't work, bullets will."

micahaphone wrote:The system itself? Someone's sounding a little anarchist, here.

+1!

For being "the greatest country in the world", there are some things that are sadly behind the times, like health care. None of these Tea-baggers seem to care that our infant mortality rates are close to those in Africa, among the worst in the world. Sadly ironic that for as many of them are creationists, they seem to think that the concept of "the weak will perish, the strong survive" works...

Study social contract theory, you have to give up something to be a part of society; unfortunately, money is the main thing people see taken from them. Those same people who say we have too many taxes whine when the streets are cleared of snow fast enough to get their lattes, or the cops don't respond to their emergency. Something's gotta give! Franklin was right.

now I'm done

"Obama is the antichrist" is a hilarious discussion. On the parts of "and he who shall destroy the world will be pure evil" (paraphrased), they argue, "he's a democrat. No explanation needed". lol.


Oh, and the book of Luke defines an antichrist as someone who doesn't beieve in Jesus. So every agnostic, atheist, buddhist, ect is the antichrist.

Which is amusing because Obama is Christian, so he can't be the Antichrist according to the bible.

Melissia wrote:Which is amusing because Obama is Christian, so he can't be the Antichrist according to the bible.

I heard he was a muslim. To bad he refuses to show his birth certificate.

I also find it funny how those people are usually fundamentalists (believe in literal definition of the bible; i.e. 7 days is 7 days, evolution = lies, ect), yet they will twist the book of Revelations this way and that way in the most symbolic meanings possible for their arguments.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

micahaphone wrote:The system itself? Someone's sounding a little anarchist, here.

+1!

For being "the greatest country in the world", there are some things that are sadly behind the times, like health care. None of these Tea-baggers seem to care that our infant mortality rates are close to those in Africa, among the worst in the world. Sadly ironic that for as many of them are creationists, they seem to think that the concept of "the weak will perish, the strong survive" works...

Study social contract theory, you have to give up something to be a part of society; unfortunately, money is the main thing people see taken from them. Those same people who say we have too many taxes whine when the streets are cleared of snow fast enough to get their lattes, or the cops don't respond to their emergency. Something's gotta give! Franklin was right.

now I'm done

One caveat, none of the Western European nations that have Socialized Medicine count premature births as live births, and don't consider a new born child a living being until 6 months of age. We report everyting.

What's also funny is that Glenn Beck likes to selectively quote Thomas Paine (the genius who wrote "Common Sense"), yet most of his ideas were very socialist.

I was under the impression that the breaking point for the colonists was taxation without representation.

I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of peopled pissed off at the government's desire to constantly up taxes for programs that continue to not work. Not every American is on board with the idea of having the government redistribute wealth.

There's a portion of the country that is for some socialist program. There's a portion that is adamantly against it. The two view points are extreme opposites and can not be resolved with words. There will be blood, it is only a matter of when and how much.

There's a portion of the country that is for some socialist program. There's a portion that is adamantly against it. The two view points are extreme opposites and can not be resolved with words. There will be blood, it is only a matter of when and how much.

The only way to solve the healthcare issue is with blood. Amazing. Why is this the greatest country on earth again?

I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of peopled pissed off at the government's desire to constantly up taxes for programs that continue to not work. Not every American is on board with the idea of having the government redistribute wealth.

Taxes bottomed out after clinton and have stayed down. What the hell are you or they talking about?

WE NEED TO TONE DOWN THE RHETORIC IN HERE A MITE. -The Mgmt.