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It wouldn't bother me to see GW do something like that, I just wouldn't buy them. I put a great stock in knowing that when I set my army up on the table, everything is me. The details, the design, the good job and the screw ups. The open endedness of the hobby is its biggest draw to me.

Remember when there was talk years ago of Bandai buying out GW? Never knew if that was true or just BS.

But, a pre-painted line (and an even bigger step towards GW's product being sold as a 'toy') would be the kind of thing I would expect if something like that would ever happen. A distinct possibility if the share price drops lower enough that a majority share buyout becomes more likely, and we get someone who has no concept of the hobby taking control of the company.

If so, pre-assembled marines in plastic fronted blister packs (with plug in weapon options, and who the hell knows DoW style soundbites if you press a button on his ass) could well become a reality.

Pacific wrote:...DoW style soundbites if you press a button on his ass) could well become a reality.

That would be AWESOME! I would soooooo play Marines if they did a button on the back that did this:

GW toy Marines!


King Ghidorah

Ghidorah wrote:

Pacific wrote:...DoW style soundbites if you press a button on his ass) could well become a reality.

That would be AWESOME! I would soooooo play Marines if they did a button on the back that did this:

GW toy Marines!


King Ghidorah

Platuan4th wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:Funny how even now people try to defend the indefensable.

And yet, AT-43 sold better than Confrontation did as metals.

You're right, this isn't the place to get into arguments, but...
blahblahblahblah...

Seriously, if this isn't the place to argue, then why do you insist on arguing?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The concept of pre-painted is appealing, but I don't think it could work.

I bought a lot of AT-43, which was designed as PPP from day one, and therefore the army lists were built around having very few options for each model and unit. You could add or subtract special weapons or a medic, engineer etc. but that meant many unit combinations were impractical. If my Red Blok wanted three missile launchers, I was in luck; one box of troopers, plus one box special weapons got me what I needed. But if I wanted three guass cannons (can't remember the names now) I needed to buy three boxes of special weapons (only one guass per box). Not gonna happen, so everyone ends up with the same army configurations. Sergeants don't get wargear, because you can't model it. Which fit AT-43 just fine; sergeants were for morale and additional tactics, not combat monsters. Vehicles were generally built with a single weapon configuration available, maybe two.

Consider that some of the people who want to buy pre-painted want very specific armies; they want power fists on their sergeants, not plasma pistols. They want twin-linked plasma/las cannon razorbacks, not heavy flamer razorbacks. So, do the B&M stores have to carry every option, every combination? Consider how much shelf space GW generally takes in your average store now. Now multiply that by having several pre-painted versions of each troop and vehicle. Multiply that by each of the available codexes. What store has the space for that? Even if they just put several turrets in each box, you're paying for items to be painted that you aren't using, and not at the bare plastic prices. People already b!tch about $50 for a vehicle.

Chances are they'd never keep up with demand for say, plasma/lascannon SW Razorbacks, but wouldn't be able to move a single Ultramarine Predator. People get annoyed they can't get exactly what they're looking for. "Whadday mean you don't have six TLP/LC SW razorbacks in stock? Next month???" I ain't waiting 'til next month! Yeah, that would ensure good feelings among their customer base. Again, it's the local store that sits on thousands of dollars of additional stock, hoping that someone finally breaks down and starts that ork footslogger army.

Naaah. GW knows its target market is disgruntled at the best of times. Why poke it with a stick? If they do switch to pre-painted, it means simplifying the entire game to reduce the options so the new codexes fit the "streamlined" product line. That would kill the game for me at least.

Mastiff wrote: If my Red Blok wanted three missile launchers, I was in luck; one box of troopers, plus one box special weapons got me what I needed. But if I wanted three guass cannons (can't remember the names now) I needed to buy three boxes of special weapons (only one guass per box).

So not really that different to many of GW's squad boxes now...

If they do switch to pre-painted, it means simplifying the entire game to reduce the options so the new codexes fit the "streamlined" product line.

Or they would just offer pre-painted versions of the more popular unit options.

Or even just releasing them on a rotating basis would work. This month/quarter/whatever: Ultramarines Strike Force Clavdivs. Next month/etc: Hive Fleet Brobdingnag Splinter Group. The month after that/or whatever: Dark Angels Strike Force Hoodius Maximus.

Release each set with an A4 painting guide sheet, so if you want to add different options to the available units, you can do so with a more-or-less matching paintjob.

Limited quantites, on the understanding that they'll be gone when the next set is released. People will buy them while they can, stores don't need a massive inventory, everybody wins.

insaniak wrote:

Mastiff wrote: If my Red Blok wanted three missile launchers, I was in luck; one box of troopers, plus one box special weapons got me what I needed. But if I wanted three guass cannons (can't remember the names now) I needed to buy three boxes of special weapons (only one guass per box).

So not really that different to many of GW's squad boxes now...

Personally, I hit up Miniatures Market and their broken down box singles for the ones that didn't come in enough numbers.

Unfortunately, it's not an option so much anymore...

I would not buy any of them! It takes away the entire spirit of wargaming. Don't you love customizing your armies?

insaniak wrote:

Mastiff wrote: If my Red Blok wanted three missile launchers, I was in luck; one box of troopers, plus one box special weapons got me what I needed. But if I wanted three guass cannons (can't remember the names now) I needed to buy three boxes of special weapons (only one guass per box).

So not really that different to many of GW's squad boxes now...

Correct. Except that you're paying more for the pre-painted boxes, and instead of having bits left over for conversion fodder, you have unwanted minis that you paid a premium for. When I bought my dark eldar wyches, I had all the pieces I needed for every type of weapon. But I didn't pay for every weapon to be painted.

insaniak wrote:

Mastiff wrote: If they do switch to pre-painted, it means simplifying the entire game to reduce the options so the new codexes fit the "streamlined" product line.

Or they would just offer pre-painted versions of the more popular unit options.

Or even just releasing them on a rotating basis would work. This month/quarter/whatever: Ultramarines Strike Force Clavdivs. Next month/etc: Hive Fleet Brobdingnag Splinter Group. The month after that/or whatever: Dark Angels Strike Force Hoodius Maximus.

So in addition to waiting years for a new codex, necron players will wait three years for their painted armies? There are 14 armies listed on the GW website. Building and painting enough models to supply the international market with complete armies on a monthly turnaround is pretty optimistic. I would be amazed if they could set up painting standards and quality control for three month turnaround. Do they want their audience sitting around and waiting two years for their favorite army to be released? again, this builds plenty of ill will, and where's the profit? If they charge enough to make them viable as a specialist, premium item to justify their limited run, they either price themselves out of the market, or make no money.

insaniak wrote:Limited quantites, on the understanding that they'll be gone when the next set is released. People will buy them while they can, stores don't need a massive inventory, everybody wins.

Look at the response the Games Day limited edition models get; there are always complaints of elitism, that people who pick the army after the event can't get them, etc. Now you're trying to get new players into the game, but tell them that they missed the deadline to get their army painted. Sucks to be you. Hey, I think we still have some Orks in the back. Again, it's fodder for the "GW doesn't love us" crowd, and pisses off more of their consumer base.

Besides, GW has been pretty relentless about sticking to their core competencies, and packaging off anything that even remotely interferes with sales efficiency. That's why Black Library, Forge Word and Specialist Games are separate entities. Blood Bowl is a great game, but with a limited market and limited repeat sales it got kicked to the curb. As a publicly-traded company, I just can't see them looking at pre-painted as a legitimate option if it means relying on dozens of individuals to handle each miniature and produce consistent quality. Mongoose found out with Battlefield:Evolution that paying minimum wages to overseas companies may keep costs down, but doesn't do much for quality or consistency. If GW could automate the painting process, then I could definitely see them considering it, but that would mean simplifying the models.

Right now people have a perfectly valid option; find an independent painter, and pay them to paint their army. They get exactly what they want, and GW sticks to making money on selling toys.

Well, here are some thoughts on this topic. Could it sell? Of course it would. When I walk into my local gamestore, it is astonishing how many armies are unpainted. And the same guys show up with unpainted week after week. Everyone has their reasons. Not good at it. No time. Some simply could care less about the painting aspect of the hobby and would rather focus on playing. And who can blame 'em? Who wants to buy a 2000 pt army and then NOT play with it until it is painted?

The hobby is really at least 2 hobbies right now. 1) Playing. 2) painting and modeling. Those that don't care or don't have time for #2 would consider buying prepainted models no matter the quality. Especially for rank-and-file troops. Not everyone thinks that painting 200 Orks, all essentially the same, is fun.

I could see people with less time opting to personally paint vehicles and commanders whilst buying in-bulk the troop choices for their armies. And seriously, who would care? The die-hard would balk, but experience has taught me that despite the fact that I've lovingly hand-painted every model in my army, at the game store, it is rare that any opponent or passerby would take more than 2 seconds to inspect the paint job on any model in my army - and when they do so, they want to look at my Warboss (not the grots) and then the compliment they give is usually a 1-word compliment such as "cool." In short, people really don't care about your army's paintjob unless you are a supremely awesome painter. They're more interested in their OWN armies. True, painting my own army gives ME a sense of pride, but others, in general, could care less, harsh but true.

True story: I spent about 2 years painting and assembling my Green Tide - unit of 100 Orks. The crowning accomplishment of my gaming career. The compliment I got for this from my oppenent: "Wow, and they don't even look like cr@p!" Gee, thanks!

Okay, so back on topic here. If GW makes them, they will sell. Everyone SAYS they wouldn't buy them, but at the end of the day, the temptation to be DONE with the paintjob straight out of the box is just too great. Sure, you could repaint the prepaints, but I think this would be rare, too. There would be a few who would insist on continuing to fully paint their own armies, and yes, they would get the occassional "cool" from passerbys, but for those gamers who aren't very interested in the painting aspect of the hobby, prepaints would be embraced.

Now, here's the thing. GW would have to decide how much to sell prepaints for. If I sell 10 Prepainted Orks for the same price as 10 unpainted models, would people consider prepaints a better deal? Or would the kits be a better deal since you get the bits? Would GW have to charge more for Prepaints since you don't have to buy any paint or brushes or primer? In short, how would GW make money on prepaints?

Mastiff wrote:Correct. Except that you're paying more for the pre-painted boxes, and instead of having bits left over for conversion fodder, you have unwanted minis that you paid a premium for.

Which you trade off for other stuff that you do need. Or you don't buy the box in the first place, and just buy the unpainted versions instead.

So in addition to waiting years for a new codex, necron players will wait three years for their painted armies?

If it's only as an optional extra to the core range, I don't see the problem with that.

We waited longer than that for a Land Raider in the gap from 2nd to 3rd edition.

Mongoose found out with Battlefield:Evolution that paying minimum wages to overseas companies may keep costs down, but doesn't do much for quality or consistency.

That's because as Mongoose also found out, you have to actually have some sort of controls in place to ensure that the company you hire to produce the models actually gives you what you paid for and what they claimed they could deliver.

Wizards had much better 'luck' with their pre-painted production. While the quality of the sculpts varied considerably within their ranges (which wasn't the fault of the company producing the finished product), the casting, assembly and painting were largely pretty consistent. Not brilliant, but consistent... which, as I understand it, was more or less what they were after. There's a trade-off between quality and price and companies have to choose the spot on that seesaw that they are comfortable with.

I still disagree. In the end GW makes decisions based on profit margins, and I just don't see this being a money-maker. I do see it as a way to alienate more consumers.

That's my TL;DR version. I'm not against the idea, but I don't believe it fits GW's business plan.

Here's a suggestion: I would like to see GW dabble with coloured plastics rather than painting. Producing orks in green plastics, with all the weapons and gear on a second grey/black sprue, would be a way to instantly give some life to the models, while still keeping the process (and therefore quality control) in their hands. No idea what that would do the price though. But at least GW wouldn't need manpower or shipping for assembly, while still making the consumer's job easier.

How much would the process be sped up if the Blood Angel models were all red? A quick wash and a lick of bolt metal would make them table ready.

An 'Eavy Metal Team painting service would suffice. I'd do it. I love the game but hate the painting and modeling.

Mastiff wrote:Here's a suggestion: I would like to see GW dabble with coloured plastics rather than painting. Producing orks in green plastics, with all the weapons and gear on a second grey/black sprue, would be a way to instantly give some life to the models, while still keeping the process (and therefore quality control) in their hands. No idea what that would do the price though. But at least GW wouldn't need manpower or shipping for assembly, while still making the consumer's job easier.

That would be the other easy option, yes.

With some of the technology available for plastic casting these days, you don't even necessarily need separate sprues... Some Japanese model makers are producing plastic kits cast with multiple colours on individual parts.

I wouldn't buy them, I love the modeling and painting aspect too much. But I wouldn't mind them.

I would prefer to see uncompleted models over pre-painted armies because it means (most of the time) that the player is putting in the effort to make their armies their own.

But that could also be me being a little biased since my army isn't completed. All my unpainted models don't have arms on them.(It make it easier to paint the chests and backside of the weapons.)

Has its pros and cons I guess. It probably would get more people playing. The modelling apect is a big turnoff for some folks.
However, everyone's army will look the same. The fact that everyone's army is just a little bit different is something special about Warhammer that would be a shame to lose.

When you boil it down the same people who say "love the game, hate the modeling" are the same who say "the models cost to much."

The only way they will accept pre-painted models is if they are as cheap if not cheaper than they are now. Which the only way to reach that price point is to be sold by the tens of thousands like 'toys' in stores, not like models in hobby shops.

To make the game marketible to a wider audiance, the rules will probably need to be shrunken and simplified in order to attract younger kids, reduce the math aspect and make the game easier to master.

And once GW has done of this to make the people who won't pay for the models 'happy' they will go 'feh... you ruined the game...'

So why should GW do this again?

I would buy pre-painted models. =D

And I have two fully painted armies (Orks and Dark Eldar), and three partly painted armies. Painting only gets done because it is mandatory for GTs, but I hate it.

GW coming out with prepainted and pre-assembled models would be one of the worst things I can imagine for the hobby. I love assembling and painting my models, and I love thinking up new paint schemes and different things that can be done to make that tank look just a bit cooler.

I would fething HATE for this to happen.

Given the number of unpainted / primed-only minis I see on game tables, I don't think this would ruin anything. The thing is that, given the price of their regular stuff, if they were to implement something like this, the price would be (even more) outrageous.

Mark1130 wrote:How would you feel? Would having the option of buying the miniture you want already assembled and painted (like hero clix ect. ect.) intise you to do more with 40k then you do now?

What do ya think? Would ya like to see this someday?

My opinion:

Yes. I would love this to happen. I could finally buy myself my dream Tyranid army, and not have to assemble and paint a buttload of minitures.

I'm not sure if I would be so crazy about it. I may not find enough time to do so, but I find that half the enjoyment of the hobby is putting the models together and painting it whatever you want them to look like. For the purposes of economy (both monetary and time), I would say yes, but if that was all I cared about, I wouldn't have been playing another game. Plus, when you know you've done a good job, it really shows into how much work you put into painting the models so they look just right

Ghidorah wrote:
GW toy Marines!

That made me lol.

What... and have everyone's army look the same as everyone else's?
That would be just stupid....

I just could never support this, I have 2 fully painted armies and am currently working on a third, many models I own have been ocnverted and customized to my liking, just the thought of walking into a game store and seeing a mob of children clutching mobs of cheap, identical ultramarines makes me shudder. I know that there are others that have put in alot of effort into their models, and to make the game even more cookie-cutter would be a big mistake.

if games workshop started making pre made pre painted sets, eventually they would create combo sets, and then toy sets for 10 year olds! Imagine, walking into an toys 'r' us and seeing a warhammer shelf with "space marine squad vs tau spaceship, Free tree included" DA HORRORS!

It is profitable...

There are sides to this that would work and others that wouldn't. Of course everyone wants an army painted to the greatest standard ever but then the army isn't theirs, it's someone elses. Really, this could kick of and work but personally I think it would fail because painting and constructing your army is one of the major parts of the entire game.

@DAWARBOSS: If GW were to release toys in toys'r'us it would make the hobby a laugh in my eyes, it would ruin it.

DAWARBOSS wrote:I would not buy any of them! It takes away the entire spirit of wargaming. Don't you love customizing your armies?

Yes I do. Very much! I just gets incredibly tedious when your trying to customize the basic troops individually. I have done it with 4 diffrent armies. I'm all done, had enough .

Tanks, leaders, special charecters I LOVE customizing. Basic dudes, Id rather buy pre mades now.


Like others have said. I'd rather play pre mades then play the greys/ just primed, that I run into 80% of the time.

If GW did it right, I don't see why it would hurt the market or product at all. Kits for the hobbists and premade for the gamers.

crimsonfist832 wrote:@DAWARBOSS: If GW were to release toys in toys'r'us it would make the hobby a laugh in my eyes, it would ruin it.

It would still be profitable, anyway i was just kidding!

GalacticDefender wrote:GW coming out with prepainted and pre-assembled models would be one of the worst things I can imagine for the hobby. I love assembling and painting my models, and I love thinking up new paint schemes and different things that can be done to make that tank look just a bit cooler.

I would fething HATE for this to happen.

This just astounds me, to be honest. This is a recurring sentiment that I've seen voiced here several time. I just can't wrap my head around it... Why the hell would a person care about pre-paints as long as GW kept everything else exactly as it is? Just because YOU (in the generic use of the word) don't like pre-paints or LOVE the painting/modeling side, why the hell would you care about somebody else wanting pre-paints?

I mean, it wouldn't impact YOUR hobby at all. In fact, it would make your hobby experience in a good way. It could/would likely reduce all the bare grey, half-assembled armies that plague our game tables now. How on EARTH is that not a desirable side effect of pre-paints? That alone is reason enough to add them to the product line. Then, you're trying to do a swarm Ork army but you dread painting/building all those boys? Paint 2000 pts. of playable army w/ a few options, then bulk out the remaining 80 Orks for that Green Tide with pre-painted filler Boyz. Ever painted an Apocalypse army? I have 10k points of Eldar painted. You realize how many Guardians and Dire Avengers (heck, infantry period!) that is? If they had my Eldar colors available pre-painted, you bet your arse I'd buy 'em. I'd use my own painted for everything other than Apoc. but whatever...




King Ghidorah

Flashman wrote:A no from me. As time consuming as it is, modelling and painting are a big part of the hobby. Preassembled, prepainted miniatures would take away its soul. You may as well play with Star Wars figures.

gotta agree withthis, i wouldnt be too upset about it, would still play, but i really think the modeling and painting aspect is a huge part of the game and prepainted models will really alter that even if the normal range is still around.

insaniak wrote:With some of the technology available for plastic casting these days, you don't even necessarily need separate sprues... Some Japanese model makers are producing plastic kits cast with multiple colours on individual parts.

I was wondering if that was a possibility, but I wasn't sure if the technology existed or not. That's where I could see GW taking the plunge. They have a consistent product and predictable costs. Do you know of any examples?