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im2randomghgh wrote:

Cybronx wrote:Before anyone goes around quoting Matt Ward, just know that not all of us Ultrasmurf fans can stand that fecker.

And why so much hate with the Ultras? We don't toot our own horn, (except for in the recent Codex, but hey, should we all be subject to the sins of Ward?) and we're not bland just because we don't have ZOFMFG WULF VIHIKING FECHKIN BRUHTAL MAHN.

Sorry, that was uncalled for, but so is the Ultramarine hate. It's just become the "norm" so everyone does it without even bothering to give it a second thought.

1. They follow the word of the rule, and don't break said rules ever.

2. They are bland and predictable "Run the Phalanx position, it says so in ma book" (this was exploited by Honsou in The Chapter's Due.)

3. They imitate, but don't innovate. While this could be said for the IoM as a whole, they typify it. They can't disobey the Codex Astartes. They just can't.

4. They make everything gold. Gold trim, Gold Insignia, Gold stylization blah blah blah sounds a bit like the Emperor's Children.

5. They have like what, 4,5 special characters? All the other noteworthy chapters only get one. (btw I kno that this is Matt Ward's fault, but it ticks me off.) I weep for my Fists, Lysander is all alone...I WANT A VLADMIR PUGH MINI!

I understand 5, but what's wrong with 1-4? Maybe a few of us like to follow the rules. *cough*my sig*cough*

Just because the Ultramarines believe fully in the Codex Astartes does not mean that they are not capable of war. Simply because they aren't space angels or space vikings and don't have a super duper dark secret doesn't mean they aren't warriors. In fact, the organized military doctrine and strict regiment that the Ultramarines uphold is what leads them to their success in battle. Call it GW favoritism if you will, but take a look at history. The sides that win the battles are the ones that are efficient and organized, even if it means using the same tactics over and over. Don't believe me? One word: Blitzkrieg.

And P.S.: I love gold trim.

Doctadeth wrote:My vote goes....to those fethed up blood angels.

obsessive about appearance, totally Khornate in battle and they go so far as to drink their enemies blood in battle.

Favourite legion is the dark angels. Ravenwing, deathwing and the fact that only one character in a giant jetbike has EW.

Sick human being...DA Suck...

I voted Ultramarines. Never liked them. The newest dex just makes me dislike them more. During the HH, what, they got surprise attacked by the Word Bearers. And then some how Gulliman beating a numerically inferior enemy led by the least warlike Primarch is supposed to make me awed by his genius? It's supposed to give him the authority to write tactical and strategic doctrine overruling and superseding that dictated by the Emperor himself?

And on that note, I don't get the hate directed against Dorn for the Iron Cage. So, you, Rogal Dorn, lead your sons in a terrible war of unthinkable scope and nature. You, personally, as probably the most loyal Primarch, have to personally escort the dying body of your father and entomb him in living death on the golden throne, and are forced to listen to Roboute Gulliman tell you that you are wrong; moreover, the Emperor who you fought and nearly died for was also wrong. No one man, including yourself can be trusted with the very power that you so recently used to preserve the Imperium. So despite disagreeing with your brother, you swallow your pride to prevent a battle between astartes that you know would divide and possibly destroy the Imperium you struggled to preserve. Lost now, with everything you hold dear either dead, destroyed or betrayed, you become fixated on the idea that this is your fault. Some failing on your part caused all of this. Castigating yourself with a fury only a posthuman demigod can imagine, you seize upon the Iron Cage; spitting in the eye of everything you held dear. And so you commit yourself and your sons, knowing that no matter the outcome, nothing will ever be the same, nothing will ever be truly Right again, and through this you will inflict suffering on those you can punish, and show the true strength you possess.

All the first founding chapters need codices.
Also, some need moar backstory, so moar fluffers need to be hired

funnay aside.
The Ultramarines are interesting since they blend popularized scottish highlands lore with quite clear and over the top roman influence.

Now to me, that's plain awesome.

and I don't really consider that any of them need to go. but the chapter name for the Space Wolves is as asinine as "Space Orks" and the latter went the way of the dodo.

by their wet leopard growl they shall be known, "Wolves of Fenris"

Ultramarines are the most hated. How about that. What a surprise.

I think people need something to dislike at least, and the Ultramarines getting the most attention also get the most dislike.

White Scars are to tribal for me. Only one ,,asian" chapter and that is not chinese or japanese not even korean insprired but mongolian. Not the fault of the scars though.

What's the point of variation if there is no standard to deviate from? Would the Space Wolves or the Blood Angles or any of the others be interesting without the Ultramarines?

Bromsy wrote:I voted Ultramarines. Never liked them. The newest dex just makes me dislike them more. During the HH, what, they got surprise attacked by the Word Bearers. And then some how Gulliman beating a numerically inferior enemy led by the least warlike Primarch is supposed to make me awed by his genius? It's supposed to give him the authority to write tactical and strategic doctrine overruling and superseding that dictated by the Emperor himself?

And on that note, I don't get the hate directed against Dorn for the Iron Cage. So, you, Rogal Dorn, lead your sons in a terrible war of unthinkable scope and nature. You, personally, as probably the most loyal Primarch, have to personally escort the dying body of your father and entomb him in living death on the golden throne, and are forced to listen to Roboute Gulliman tell you that you are wrong; moreover, the Emperor who you fought and nearly died for was also wrong. No one man, including yourself can be trusted with the very power that you so recently used to preserve the Imperium. So despite disagreeing with your brother, you swallow your pride to prevent a battle between astartes that you know would divide and possibly destroy the Imperium you struggled to preserve. Lost now, with everything you hold dear either dead, destroyed or betrayed, you become fixated on the idea that this is your fault. Some failing on your part caused all of this. Castigating yourself with a fury only a posthuman demigod can imagine, you seize upon the Iron Cage; spitting in the eye of everything you held dear. And so you commit yourself and your sons, knowing that no matter the outcome, nothing will ever be the same, nothing will ever be truly Right again, and through this you will inflict suffering on those you can punish, and show the true strength you possess.

I kinda hate Guilliman too, but he actually only had a fraction of the Ultrasmurfs for that battle. They were enormously outnumbered which is why it's all
"OMG THEY IS SO SEXY" -Matt Ward

I am with you on the Dorn thing. IF are by far my favourite first founding legion. by FAR.

i hate Ultramarines soo much i like to see them all be melted in a mass fire

Ultramarines because they where conviently on the other side of the galaxy when ANYTHING happens, Dark Angels, just because I dont like them.

Space Wolves, I hate furries.

Why is everyone so down on the smurfs? I like them. If they had not written the codex then no other chapter would have a basis to deviate from! (as has already been mentioned I feel). If the BA or the IF had been the chapter that created the Codex then would you all hate them too?! It makes no sense. The very fact that the Ultramarines were among the first of the chapters to scrap with the 'nids makes them a great part of the history of 40k, and they lost the entire first legion as well. The fact that they the Space Marine army that most people start with speaks volumes to me. My vote was for the Gimperial Fists....Dorm was a sucker and a generally dislikable chap!

Its funny how perceptions of the chapters are as much influenced by the community as the fluff. Vampires and Werewolves have been around a lot longer than Twilight and furries.

Least favorite for me are the Iron Hands.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Sick human being...DA Suck...

Yes, you've mentioned that repeatedly. Four times in the same thread even. We get the point.

Good points there Luco.

I think we should definitely wait for the DA's story arc to finish in the HH series before we make too hasty a judgement on them. The legion has also provided one of possibly the most famous, and widely discussed BL books of all time, in the form of Angels of Darkness. And the models themselves have proved the basis for quite a number of interesting forces, I've seen some really well done DA armies, practically since 1st edition they often seem to be a popular choice of people who can paint and model well!

As for the UM, I've got a feeling our perceptions of them are going to change a little. Remember they were the largest legion by far - what an absolute pasting they must have received on Calth at the hands of the Word Bearers to be effectively knocked out of preventing the assault on Terra, and then being reduced to just a thousand marines after Gulliman ordered to the splitting up of the Legions. I think even once you have accounted for the 2nd foundings, the number of their dead must have been astronomical. If you're not too sure about this, read the extract from Collected Visions to see what might well be coming up in the future of the HH series. It's not very pretty for them.

vikings are nice!
Futuristic space warriors are cool!
Lycnthropes are interesting!

Futuristic Viking space lycanthrope warriors are simply stupid thrash...

So i voted for the furry guys...

Come on!! They look like the charachters of an Asylum movie...

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:Why is everyone so down on the smurfs? I like them. If they had not written the codex then no other chapter would have a basis to deviate from! (as has already been mentioned I feel). If the BA or the IF had been the chapter that created the Codex then would you all hate them too?! It makes no sense. The very fact that the Ultramarines were among the first of the chapters to scrap with the 'nids makes them a great part of the history of 40k, and they lost the entire first legion as well. The fact that they the Space Marine army that most people start with speaks volumes to me. My vote was for the Gimperial Fists....Dorm was a sucker and a generally dislikable chap!

Dorn was the wisest, loyalest, most honest Primarch, what's not to like?

If Garro had approached any other Primarch chances are he would have been executed.

Smurfs suck, they're like that kid (there's one in every class) who goes to school, does his work, and goes straight home without socializing or anything. Rules rules rules...

Also, the reason most people start with them is that they're boring, with nothing special about them, they are as flexible as astartes are supposed to be. And all the good chapters (Imperial Fists) that don't have their own dex are hard to paint (Imperial Fists)

The Imperial Fists are hard to paint?

White primer then Banana yellow spray paint and after that add red and black details with a smidgen of gunmetal. Done.

Hehe!

Ok ok I know it shouldn't look like you finger painted your army. You should do it with great care and precision to show them you care how they look on the table and imbue them with the karma of winning!

Matt1785 wrote: I voted for the Iron Hands, I don't know, perhaps its from what I read in Fulgrim, but I just don't like the chapter, nothing of substance there for me really.. but just an opinion.

I like all the Loyalists for one reason or another but if I had to choose a duffer, it'd be the Iron Hands. I think it was the way the elite Morlocks got ganked in Fulgrim - not their proudest moment.

Zakiriel wrote:The Imperial Fists are hard to paint?

White primer then Banana yellow spray paint and after that add red and black details with a smidgen of gunmetal. Done.

Hehe!

Ok ok I know it shouldn't look like you finger painted your army. You should do it with great care and precision to show them you care how they look on the table and imbue them with the karma of winning!

...I meant because yellow is fairly hard to paint evenly...you need like 5 layers, and then have to do them all to any areas you touch-up...

Despite my hatred for Ultras (wich has diminished in the last weeks after the release of Grey Knights codex) I have to say that I do not certainly like the Iron Hands.

God they are USELESS, Marines that sacrifice themselves to become machines rather than super humans, that is SO wrong. Cool models, cool idea, but I just don't like it at all. They are not bound to the Imperium (IMHO) they are more bound to the Mechanicus and that is WRONG.

Ultras can be hated for their nonsense of "By the book and only by that" but they are the lesser problem of the Imperium, at least they are loyal.

KOS wrote:Despite my hatred for Ultras (wich has diminished in the last weeks after the release of Grey Knights codex) I have to say that I do not certainly like the Iron Hands.

God they are USELESS, Marines that sacrifice themselves to become machines rather than super humans, that is SO wrong. Cool models, cool idea, but I just don't like it at all. They are not bound to the Imperium (IMHO) they are more bound to the Mechanicus and that is WRONG.

Ultras can be hated for their nonsense of "By the book and only by that" but they are the lesser problem of the Imperium, at least they are loyal.

I agree with most of that, what's the point of replacing enhanced limbs with mechanized limbs? Bionics are no better on them than they are on guardsmen, and they're getting rid of the biggest advantage one could ask for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If it were up to them, they would be a chapter of dreadnoughts

I have to go with Imperial Fists. They are my least favorite original legion, just as Dorn is my least favorite Primarch. They are a far less cool version of the Iron Warriors. But their worst offense to me is spawning the chapter that I hate the most: the Black Templars.
And I can't stand the color Yellow as their primary color... even the hated Black Templars look cooler.
Second least favorite would be the Ultra Marines, they're just as boring as the Imperial fists...but Blue is a better color.

Extra cool that Salamanders are in Best place! Sallies rule!! Vulkan Rules!! Burnination RULES!!!


Anyone who votes Salamanders, Raven Gaurd, or White Scars as worst OG Legion need to read more BL novels.

NagothDaCleaver wrote:I have to go with Imperial Fists. They are my least favorite original legion, just as Dorn is my least favorite Primarch. They are a far less cool version of the Iron Warriors. But their worst offense to me is spawning the chapter that I hate the most: the Black Templars.
And I can't stand the color Yellow as their primary color... even the hated Black Templars look cooler.
Second least favorite would be the Ultra Marines, they're just as boring as the Imperial fists...but Blue is a better color.

Extra cool that Salamanders are in Best place! Sallies rule!! Vulkan Rules!! Burnination RULES!!!


Anyone who votes Salamanders, Raven Gaurd, or White Scars as worst OG Legion need to read more BL novels.

White Scars fan *glares*

IF hater *glares*

Dorn hater *glares*

I hate Templars too, but to go out, onto a battlefield packed with monstrosities, wearing bright, golden yellow (some sources call their armour gold-don't beleive them!) take balls like watermelons.

I hate Salamanders too. Pyro-freaks.

I'm with you on the Raven Guard.

Dorn was the awesomest Primarch-by far. He was the most loyal, most honest, most reasonable, most respectable of the the Emperor's Sons.

Imperial fists are better than Ulras. Please avoid comparing, as Ultramarines are boring and predictable. IF are capable of deep tactical thinking and have unique, less predictable battle strategies. They epitomize what it is to be a warrior-they fight valiantly, with unmatched skill, with their own, original philosophy, and they are capable of doing more than destroying-they build.

IF are the only reason that Terra survived the HH. If it had been say, the Ultras on Terra rather than the Fists, they would have lost. The unique skillset of the IF is what saved humanity, as their fortification of the Imperial Palace allowed it to resist the brutal assaults launched by Horus.

They also saved the Mechanicus, as they evacuated the loyalist (and killed several traitor engines) during the Martian civil war.

Bonus: They created (and destroyed) the Soul Drinkers-just about the awesomest chapter ever.

Dark Angels

Going to correct myself and say Iron Hands, they were/are pretty worthless.

I hate the dark angels the remind me of wusses because they only attack when they hear about a fallen. i mean wow no wonder the space wolfs hate them.

samtheking wrote:I hate the dark angels the remind me of wusses because they only attack when they hear about a fallen. i mean wow no wonder the space wolfs hate them.

They attack quite often regardless to the fallen, the fallen just have priority. Rather odd that the Wolves would hate them considering Russ and Jonson were friends.

I hate Ultramarines. So does most of my friends who play 40k. One of them has a tank with the text "Calgar was here" under it... and some blood.

I believe the Dark Angels to be more dangerous to the IoM than the Knights of Blood so I voted for them, They follow their own shameful and selfish agenda covering their sorry whinging arses. They wavered during the Heresy and need to be the pinnacle of true defenders to make up for this, IMHO they fail.

Stella Cadente wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:DA can kiss my ass.

no they can't, there too busy rimming matt wards in the hopes of pleasing the mindless preteen GW fans with new fluffy tales of co-operating fully with the inquisition, loving the space wolves like a brother loves a sister in texas and how the ravenwing are all descendents of the ultramarines who secretly crossdress for blood angels, and how the deathwing are allied to the tyranids on numerous occasions against the squats.

Bandwagon still going huh?