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I don't mind not being able to get Faith powers off though, since they all pretty much stink in the first place...

Interesting contribution on the armory, I keep thinking maybe it is not true to myself, but the reality is it is probably accurate.

Too bad I bought all those Heavy Flamers - 20 points a pop with a say 10 point Melta gun actually puts a SoB unit over a comparable SM price.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Melissia wrote:Lol, celestians and battle sisters,, despite being worse than before, are now more expensive than before too. Seraphim are also worse, but they're cheaper to match. Too much cheaper in fact, fifteen pionts? Might as well just spam them and throw them away rather than use them tactically.

All the trollish claims certain people made that my negativity was akin to saying "the sky is falling" look even more amusingly stupid.

A broken clock is still right twice a day.

Remembering your posts in the previous Sisters thread, that's more than can be said for you.

Ixquic wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Melissia wrote:Lol, celestians and battle sisters,, despite being worse than before, are now more expensive than before too. Seraphim are also worse, but they're cheaper to match. Too much cheaper in fact, fifteen pionts? Might as well just spam them and throw them away rather than use them tactically.

All the trollish claims certain people made that my negativity was akin to saying "the sky is falling" look even more amusingly stupid.

A broken clock is still right twice a day.

Remembering your posts in the previous Sisters thread, that's more than can be said for you.

Yes, because telling people to wait for the points values THEN doomsay and saying 45 point Penitent engines was pure wishlisting of the worst kind makes me a newb who doesn't know 40k. When the points values came out (which they still haven't, but whatever) it looks bad. Cool. Now you get to bitch since now you actually have something to whine about.

45 point PEs is still utterly unbalanced, and would have been totally broken. That hasn't changed.

I dont even know what to say about this book.. I wasnt a huge fan of the BA book, but it was atleast just a "marine" book for the most part

This just seems a radically different playstyle that reduced options and effectiveness

Yeah. It's hard to understand what the point of this was, other than as part of an attempt to revamp WD.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Ixquic wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Melissia wrote:Lol, celestians and battle sisters,, despite being worse than before, are now more expensive than before too. Seraphim are also worse, but they're cheaper to match. Too much cheaper in fact, fifteen pionts? Might as well just spam them and throw them away rather than use them tactically.

All the trollish claims certain people made that my negativity was akin to saying "the sky is falling" look even more amusingly stupid.

A broken clock is still right twice a day.

Remembering your posts in the previous Sisters thread, that's more than can be said for you.

Yes, because telling people to wait for the points values THEN doomsay and saying 45 point Penitent engines was pure wishlisting of the worst kind makes me a newb who doesn't know 40k.

Because current point values for Penitent Engines makes them desirable and just ripping up your Space Marines in games across the nation. Just because you are bad at game design in the same way as certain codex authors doesn't make you correct.

But hey feel free to continue making douchey un provoked comments against other posters. It's the story of every Sisters of Battle thread. so why stop now?

Kirasu wrote:I dont even know what to say about this book.. I wasnt a huge fan of the BA book, but it was atleast just a "marine" book for the most part

This just seems a radically different playstyle that reduced options and effectiveness

Pretty much.

"Everything's different..."
"What's wrong with that?"
"Nothing, except it's now worse than the Necron codex."

Discussion requires courtesy. This is the only warning I'm going to post in this thread before suspending accounts. There have been enough Sisters threads with the exact same culprits for everyone to know what the expectations are: trading personal insults and flamebaiting/flaming are not allowed.

ShumaGorath wrote:Cool. Now you get to bitch since now you actually have something to whine about.

Awesome - nice to know we can get on with bitching Also, you might find it funny that Penitent Engines have seemingly gone up in price, rather than down. At least it means we know this Codex wasn't a cynical attempt by GW to shift models they'd never been able to sell before - as I've always said, never attribute to malice what can be put down to good, old-fashioned idiocy.

Mythal wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Cool. Now you get to bitch since now you actually have something to whine about.

Awesome - nice to know we can get on with bitching Also, you might find it funny that Penitent Engines have seemingly gone up in price, rather than down. At least it means we know this Codex wasn't a cynical attempt by GW to shift models they'd never been able to sell before - as I've always said, never attribute to malice what can be put down to good, old-fashioned idiocy.

When in doubt, always bet on GW's incompetence.

I know it's worked for me so far! I have twenty bucks from a friend who bet me that her finecast would come in without any flaws. It was missing a hand.

Melissia wrote:

Kirasu wrote:I dont even know what to say about this book.. I wasnt a huge fan of the BA book, but it was atleast just a "marine" book for the most part

This just seems a radically different playstyle that reduced options and effectiveness

Pretty much.

"Everything's different..."
"What's wrong with that?"
"Nothing, except it's now worse than the Necron codex."

Hey now, it's not that bad. At least you can still reliably kill tanks. Necrons would love to have that.

They may not be as effective as before, but they can still burn and melt with the best of them. Just like tyranids may not be able to do everything we want them to do, they can still deliver that sweet, sweet, tentacle love, sisters will still be able to drive up a deliver a burning sensation the enemy will not soon forget.

sharkticon wrote:They may not be as effective as before [snip for space]

That's the thing. Sisters were never really all that spectacular. At best, they were average on the list of competitiveness, and only if you built your list in one of two specific ways. And even then, they were STILL worse than every 5th edition codex except Tyranids. I had never seen a Sisters army win a real championship or even place in the top three, from third edition to fifth. Someone may correct me on this, but I doubt it.

And now they're less than that.

Well they could. By the looks of it now they drive up, have some tea and then deliver the burning.

sharkticon wrote:Protector of the Faith is the special character that lets you reroll your faith point dice. You take him to up your initial faith per turn, start by using faith near the laud hailer to replenish faith, and the SI and veteran lets you get powers off on a 4+ rerollable, it's nto perfect, but it should let you get off most of the powers you need, while being somewhat stable.

That's horrible game design. Wasn't the point of changing the Faith system to streamline it, and to make easier for your opponent to understand? Now not only is it weaker, but its more complicated as well. Hmm...I need this special character....oh need to be in range of the command squad....did I take a casualty? Rolls dice... I still failed.... Yep, much simpler than rolling over or under the size of the unit was. Leaving aside that the character and SI cost points that could be used elsewhere.

Ixquic wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Ixquic wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Melissia wrote:Lol, celestians and battle sisters,, despite being worse than before, are now more expensive than before too. Seraphim are also worse, but they're cheaper to match. Too much cheaper in fact, fifteen pionts? Might as well just spam them and throw them away rather than use them tactically.

All the trollish claims certain people made that my negativity was akin to saying "the sky is falling" look even more amusingly stupid.

A broken clock is still right twice a day.

Remembering your posts in the previous Sisters thread, that's more than can be said for you.

Yes, because telling people to wait for the points values THEN doomsay and saying 45 point Penitent engines was pure wishlisting of the worst kind makes me a newb who doesn't know 40k.

Because current point values for Penitent Engines makes them desirable and just ripping up your Space Marines in games across the nation. Just because you are bad at game design in the same way as certain codex authors doesn't make you correct.

But hey feel free to continue making douchey un provoked comments against other posters. It's the story of every Sisters of Battle thread. so why stop now?

I came into that thread at like page 14. You'd already earned the reputation long before i wandered in. I was just asking for you to be reasonable and pointed out wishlistyness, which you staunchly refused and then wouldn't aknowledge. PEs weren't taken at their previous point values, that doesn't mean you cut it in half. People don't like LC terminators, should they be 20 points?

Mythal wrote: At least it means we know this Codex wasn't a cynical attempt by GW to shift models they'd never been able to sell before - as I've always said, never attribute to malice what can be put down to good, old-fashioned idiocy.

IN a manner of speaking it was:

Heavy Flamer is now double the cost [20 pts] of a MultiMelta [10 pts]..

Pretty big F U to folks with immolator armies of heavy flamers.....and now MM are cheaper to boot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShumaGorath wrote: People don't like LC terminators, should they be 20 points?

But thats not the fault of lighting claw terminators. Thats the fault of storm sheilds being overpowered/undercost for what they do.

But thats not the fault of lighting claw terminators. Thats the fault of storm sheilds being overpowered/undercost for what they do.

People didn't like them before the Storm Shields, they're really not very good for what they cost. People don't take them in the marine books where TH/SS costs more either.

Pretty big F U to folks with immolator armies of heavy flamers.....and now MM are cheaper to boot.

20 is in line with the base marine book. I pay 20 on sternguard if I remember right.

carmachu wrote:
But thats not the fault of lighting claw terminators. Thats the fault of storm sheilds being overpowered/undercost for what they do.

That's one side of the coin. The other side is that LC terminators are overpriced for what they do (or, perhaps don't do), and therefore should be lowered in price.

This is just another one of the many incompetent design choices that GW has made over the last four or five years (or possibly since Andy Chambers left). No one is beating down the door to play sisters with their current rules because they're overpriced compared to current trends. So, hey, make them more expensive...

ShumaGorath wrote:20 is in line with the base marine book. I pay 20 on sternguard if I remember right.

No, Sternguard pay half that to upgrade a boltgun to a heavy flamer

Redbeard wrote:

carmachu wrote:
But thats not the fault of lighting claw terminators. Thats the fault of storm sheilds being overpowered/undercost for what they do.

That's one side of the coin. The other side is that LC terminators are overpriced for what they do (or, perhaps don't do), and therefore should be lowered in price.

This is just another one of the many incompetent design choices that GW has made over the last four or five years (or possibly since Andy Chambers left). No one is beating down the door to play sisters with their current rules because they're overpriced compared to current trends. So, hey, make them more expensive...

Lets be realistic people have never, in this games history, beaten down the doors to play sisters. They're unpopular for numerous reasons other then game balance. They weren't hot sellers when the With Hunters book was new and good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mythal wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:20 is in line with the base marine book. I pay 20 on sternguard if I remember right.

No, Sternguard pay half that to upgrade a boltgun to a heavy flamer

You sure? I remember the HF being bizarrely expensive compared to the other weapons in that squad, I don't have the book in front of me though. I know Legion of the damned pay through the nose.

ShumaGorath wrote:

20 is in line with the base marine book. I pay 20 on sternguard if I remember right.

Dont care what the marine book is-they have a plethera of options and an elite stat line.

And no you dont pay that for sternguard.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Mythal wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:20 is in line with the base marine book. I pay 20 on sternguard if I remember right.

No, Sternguard pay half that to upgrade a boltgun to a heavy flamer

You sure? I remember the HF being bizarrely expensive compared to the other weapons in that squad, I don't have the book in front of me though. I know Legion of the damned pay through the nose.

Sat with the book in front of me. Legion of the Damned pay a silly amount for a Heavy Flamer, but Sternguard only pay 10 per Heavy Flamer.

Mythal wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Mythal wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:20 is in line with the base marine book. I pay 20 on sternguard if I remember right.

No, Sternguard pay half that to upgrade a boltgun to a heavy flamer

You sure? I remember the HF being bizarrely expensive compared to the other weapons in that squad, I don't have the book in front of me though. I know Legion of the damned pay through the nose.

Sat with the book in front of me. Legion of the Damned pay a silly amount for a Heavy Flamer, but Sternguard only pay 10 per Heavy Flamer.

Probably comped down a bit because you lose the special ammo. I thought those bolters were worth 5 a piece because of the ammo, but who knows. What do terminators pay?

Mythal wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Mythal wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:20 is in line with the base marine book. I pay 20 on sternguard if I remember right.

No, Sternguard pay half that to upgrade a boltgun to a heavy flamer

You sure? I remember the HF being bizarrely expensive compared to the other weapons in that squad, I don't have the book in front of me though. I know Legion of the damned pay through the nose.

Sat with the book in front of me. Legion of the Damned pay a silly amount for a Heavy Flamer, but Sternguard only pay 10 per Heavy Flamer.

Which pretty much establishes that GW is to consistency what Ghadaffi is to good governance.

carmachu wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

20 is in line with the base marine book. I pay 20 on sternguard if I remember right.

Dont care what the marine book is-they have a plethera of options and an elite stat line.

And no you dont pay that for sternguard.

That elite statline means absolutely nothing to a heavy flamer. The cheaper the user the better.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Lets be realistic people have never, in this games history, beaten down the doors to play sisters. They're unpopular for numerous reasons other then game balance. They weren't hot sellers when the With Hunters book was new and good.

SO that justifies poor design, bad choices in points and other and in general screwing up the army?

I hope none of the xenos become unpopular, or god forbid one of the flavors or marines, becuase it will justify screwing them up.

You sure? I remember the HF being bizarrely expensive compared to the other weapons in that squad, I don't have the book in front of me though. I know Legion of the damned pay through the nose.

apples and oranges, LoD pay that also becuase their save is invulnerable as well.

Melissia wrote:

Mythal wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Mythal wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:20 is in line with the base marine book. I pay 20 on sternguard if I remember right.

No, Sternguard pay half that to upgrade a boltgun to a heavy flamer

You sure? I remember the HF being bizarrely expensive compared to the other weapons in that squad, I don't have the book in front of me though. I know Legion of the damned pay through the nose.

Sat with the book in front of me. Legion of the Damned pay a silly amount for a Heavy Flamer, but Sternguard only pay 10 per Heavy Flamer.

Which pretty much establishes that GW is to consistency what Ghadaffi is to good governance.

Flamers and combi flamers cost the same amount in the book too. The guy writing the marine book was incompetant beyond belief.

And as we all know, a 6+ invulnerable save is SO valuable to an army with a 3+ armor save.

ShumaGorath wrote:

That elite statline means absolutely nothing to a heavy flamer. The cheaper the user the better.

But you didnt point out then, IG, you used space marine. What the marine codex says in comparison, with all its options shouldnt have any bearing on cost of Hflamer in a sisters army. Bad example on your part

ShumaGorath wrote:Probably comped down a bit because you lose the special ammo. I thought those bolters were worth 5 a piece because of the ammo, but who knows. What do terminators pay?

Half what Sternguard pay, or a quarter what Battle Sisters pay in the new Dex. But I'd rather not go through all of the Codices on my shelf trying to defend the indefensible regarding the silly costing of heavy flamers