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So lately I have seen several Tactical Marines running around with Vengeance Launchers and using them to surprisingly devastating effect. I saw one guy go 33/6 with 6 caps on Capture and Control last night using exclusively the Vengeance Launcher, Favor of the Armory, and Master Crafted Wargear. It was brutal. Nobody could get anywhere near him without getting stuck with Vengeance Rounds and blown up, or peppered with grenades and....well.....blown up. Since then a friend of mine has been playing with the same build, and most of his games are over a 1.5 KDR. I didn't realize it could be so good for how lackluster it seems in the campaign.

Lackluster in the campaign? Vengeance launcher is friggin awesomew with ork mobz.
Also, ive always been terrible with vengeance launcher, so i geuss its personal preference.

I'm guessing i'm one of the few people that actually like final vengeance.... my complaint is the storm/ twin bolter seems to be a crapfest of a gun that does absolutely no damage whatsoever!

Tazz Azrael wrote:I'm guessing i'm one of the few people that actually like final vengeance.... my complaint is the storm/ twin bolter seems to be a crapfest of a gun that does absolutely no damage whatsoever!

I agree with the bolter comment. It needs either serious accuracy or range reduction or serious damage reduction.

I have no problem with Final Vengeance. Again, I don't think it's particularly unbalancing nor do I think it's unavoidable as long as you assume every Assault Marine has it. Killing Blow is a far more dangerous perk, but I haven't seen it mentioned much yet.

Killing blow isn't helpful at all....I used it, smashed some kid in the back of the skull, no one shot kill.....

Here's their explanation:

Killing Blow - Thunderhammer & Maul
Many users have been talking about the "Killing Blow" and how it is not always a one shot kill. Well it won't always be... Why you ask? Space Marine takes in consideration of glancing hits, so you might think your hit was perfect, but if you're not straight on with the enemy it will calculate as a glancing blow and do secondary damage.

http://www.spacemarine.com/forums/topic/5993

bombboy1252 wrote:Killing blow isn't helpful at all....I used it, smashed some kid in the back of the skull, no one shot kill.....

Killing Blow is not useless. It's actually incredibly useful, especially against Devastators that have Iron Halo and Artificer Armor. Land a direct swing and you kill them outright. As the above poster mentioned, you probably scored a glancing hit, not a direct hit. If it looked like a direct hit on your screen it was probably due to lag issues with the host, which is my only real complaint with the game. This is one of the reasons that the primary tactic with the Thunder Hammer + Killing Blow + Final Vengeance build is to jump in, swing, then jump out regardless of the result. If you kill a guy, then bravo. If not, then you may get an assist. Also, if you fail to kill you probably stripped his armor at the very least, which means if you drop a grenade when you jump out, you will likely score the kill. Just remember. Jump, swing, jump. Never deviate from that pattern, or get locked into a combo with the Thunder Hammer or you will be a corpse before you finish.

Melissia wrote:Here's their explanation:

Killing Blow - Thunderhammer & Maul
Many users have been talking about the "Killing Blow" and how it is not always a one shot kill. Well it won't always be... Why you ask? Space Marine takes in consideration of glancing hits, so you might think your hit was perfect, but if you're not straight on with the enemy it will calculate as a glancing blow and do secondary damage.

http://www.spacemarine.com/forums/topic/5993

Yes I already read that, they either need to make the perk where instead of being an insta-kill ONLY on direct hit, it at least does extra damage for 'glancing.

I wonder what AV value marines are...

bombboy1252 wrote:

Melissia wrote:Here's their explanation:

Killing Blow - Thunderhammer & Maul
Many users have been talking about the "Killing Blow" and how it is not always a one shot kill. Well it won't always be... Why you ask? Space Marine takes in consideration of glancing hits, so you might think your hit was perfect, but if you're not straight on with the enemy it will calculate as a glancing blow and do secondary damage.

http://www.spacemarine.com/forums/topic/5993

Yes I already read that, they either need to make the perk where instead of being an insta-kill ONLY on direct hit, it at least does extra damage for 'glancing.

Because the thunder hammer doesn't do enough damage on a glance? It strips iron halo's with a single blow... You just seem to want an always kill weapon:\

Anyway, I'd like to say, nerf the plasma cannon, but the problem is, it wouldn't be a plasma cannon anymore... I'd say, bigger overheat issues on the thing, or maybe even make it deploy for charge only.

Actually I've found the Plasma Cannon to be a relatively balanced weapon. At range it does what a Plasma Cannon should do. Massive damage on a direct hit and decent splash damage on an indirect hit. Up close though, it's difficult to use because the splash damage can hit the Devastator and do significant damage. Even with Iron Halo and Artificer Armor I was still killing myself along with the Assault Marines that were charging me, so it definitely takes some getting used to. Once you know how to position yourself and dodge backward before pulling the trigger though, it can be a devastating weapon. Like anything else in this game, it rewards practice and careful use.

You do know that you can overcharge it right? And like kill 3 people in one shot. Regardless of upgrades.

Aldarionn wrote:Actually I've found the Plasma Cannon to be a relatively balanced weapon. At range it does what a Plasma Cannon should do. Massive damage on a direct hit and decent splash damage on an indirect hit. Up close though, it's difficult to use because the splash damage can hit the Devastator and do significant damage. Even with Iron Halo and Artificer Armor I was still killing myself along with the Assault Marines that were charging me, so it definitely takes some getting used to. Once you know how to position yourself and dodge backward before pulling the trigger though, it can be a devastating weapon. Like anything else in this game, it rewards practice and careful use.

My only problem with plasma cannons is that theyre almost in a way like the noob tubes of this game. Sometimes people just launcher it at a capture flag or spawn point and itll kill everyone regaurdless of armor because of its massive splash damage.

It's a very effective tool for defending and taking flags, like the Pro Pipe was in CoD, that's why people hate on it, anything that stops them "owning" pisses them off. Whenever I play Waste Management I usually kill 3 - 5 people within the first minute of the game.

The most annoying thing about it is when your stupid team mates run in front of you just as you launch it and it kills you LOL.

Well so was the noob tube; doesnt mean its fair.
Personally i hate using the plasma cannon; its just not my style, and apart from that i suck with it.

I hate anything that kills in one shot. The only exception is sniper rifles, cause that usually takes some skill at aiming.

Soladrin wrote:You do know that you can overcharge it right? And like kill 3 people in one shot. Regardless of upgrades.

However, the overcharged shot is also far slower and "heavier" than the normal shot, and is far more of a risk of you hurting yourself to boot. It also takes 40 ammunition to shoot a charged shot and doesn't shoot when partially charged, meaning if you have to quickly react there's a (very short, but it still matters) delay before you can shoot again..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LordofHats wrote:I hate anything that kills in one shot. The only exception is sniper rifles, cause that usually takes some skill at aiming.

Point and click.

Yeah on PC Sniper Rifles are easily used for insta-kills for the reasons Melissia points out. Point at head, click to shoot, target dies. On a console it's much more difficult as the camera stick doesn't translate quite as easily as the mouse.

As for the Plasma Cannon, I knew it could be overcharged but I didn't realize it did THAT much damage. I also rarely get the chance to use the overcharge ability because I seem to get targeted by everyone just for holding a Plasma Cannon. I have to fire fast and move around a lot, which doesn't lend itself well to charging up a shot. Now that I know it does much more damage that way though I'll give it a try and see how it works out.

You'll also find that the plascan's maximal mode (IE charged shot) has FAR more complicated ballistics.

Problem with the PC is during the overcharge, you can move full speed, and the people that are good with it, just need a hint of where you are because the splash of it you can be a few meters from a blast and be severely damaged [coming from a standard dev] FV isn't too bad to me, I've always avoided with ample time, though when I'm in lockdown they can catch me a few times. Las cannon just needs a RoF debuff and PC just needs a mobility debuff [lockdown or 'walk' speed' for charging] Assault seem fine to me, and Tacticals I've yet to run into any combo that utterly dominated, most players that rocked a high score were flankers/ambushers and they do so well, and for me? my quick response build is pretty nasty, Storm bolter + melta with the rapid deplyment perk is pretty nasty when you want to make a good final defense attempt ... also makes you a flak cannon to assault marines

Ferrumkit wrote:Problem with the PC is during the overcharge, you can move full speed, and the people that are good with it, just need a hint of where you are because the splash of it you can be a few meters from a blast and be severely damaged [coming from a standard dev] FV isn't too bad to me, I've always avoided with ample time, though when I'm in lockdown they can catch me a few times. Las cannon just needs a RoF debuff and PC just needs a mobility debuff [lockdown or 'walk' speed' for charging] Assault seem fine to me, and Tacticals I've yet to run into any combo that utterly dominated, most players that rocked a high score were flankers/ambushers and they do so well, and for me? my quick response build is pretty nasty, Storm bolter + melta with the rapid deplyment perk is pretty nasty when you want to make a good final defense attempt ... also makes you a flak cannon to assault marines

I agree that the las' need a slower RoF, they can shoot me both times before I even have a chance to really react. and storm bolter and melta......well that's just rude to us assault marines

and welcome to dakka

Thanks for the welcome, and yeah, only able to escape beamy death as a Tactical otherwise I usually flop over dead. I also thought of a couple good implements that coulda been added, , namely something like 1 terminator 'leader' for both sides, but the catch is, if they get killed they can't respawn as the terminator. figure a good way to allow all to equally get a chance is a randomizer to pick a person for each team. Or allow scouts/heretics with infiltration[stealth] and access to their reasonable armaments, bolter sniper rifle shotguns, I think they could be valid . Or for some realfun, take a note from TF2. A saxton hale mode, in which case it would be everyone's favorite loyalist, Emperor's Champion [Ala Black Templars] ... I know these are horrid ideas but could add some fun

Ferrumkit wrote:Thanks for the welcome, and yeah, only able to escape beamy death as a Tactical otherwise I usually flop over dead. I also thought of a couple good implements that coulda been added, , namely something like 1 terminator 'leader' for both sides, but the catch is, if they get killed they can't respawn as the terminator. figure a good way to allow all to equally get a chance is a randomizer to pick a person for each team. Or allow scouts/heretics with infiltration[stealth] and access to their reasonable armaments, bolter sniper rifle shotguns, I think they could be valid . Or for some realfun, take a note from TF2. A saxton hale mode, in which case it would be everyone's favorite loyalist, Emperor's Champion [Ala Black Templars] ... I know these are horrid ideas but could add some fun

Have you ever played Bioshock 2?
What they do is spawn the big daddy armor somewhere random out of three or four remote spots in the game. If you get to it then you get to play as the big daddy.
This, only with terminater armor could be a good game mode.

Jollydevil wrote:

Ferrumkit wrote:Thanks for the welcome, and yeah, only able to escape beamy death as a Tactical otherwise I usually flop over dead. I also thought of a couple good implements that coulda been added, , namely something like 1 terminator 'leader' for both sides, but the catch is, if they get killed they can't respawn as the terminator. figure a good way to allow all to equally get a chance is a randomizer to pick a person for each team. Or allow scouts/heretics with infiltration[stealth] and access to their reasonable armaments, bolter sniper rifle shotguns, I think they could be valid . Or for some realfun, take a note from TF2. A saxton hale mode, in which case it would be everyone's favorite loyalist, Emperor's Champion [Ala Black Templars] ... I know these are horrid ideas but could add some fun

Have you ever played Bioshock 2?
What they do is spawn the big daddy armor somewhere random out of three or four remote spots in the game. If you get to it then you get to play as the big daddy.
This, only with terminater armor could be a good game mode.

Humbug, Big Daddies were worthless, and died in two seconds. I doubt the Terminators would fit in this.

Slarg232 wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:

Ferrumkit wrote:Thanks for the welcome, and yeah, only able to escape beamy death as a Tactical otherwise I usually flop over dead. I also thought of a couple good implements that coulda been added, , namely something like 1 terminator 'leader' for both sides, but the catch is, if they get killed they can't respawn as the terminator. figure a good way to allow all to equally get a chance is a randomizer to pick a person for each team. Or allow scouts/heretics with infiltration[stealth] and access to their reasonable armaments, bolter sniper rifle shotguns, I think they could be valid . Or for some realfun, take a note from TF2. A saxton hale mode, in which case it would be everyone's favorite loyalist, Emperor's Champion [Ala Black Templars] ... I know these are horrid ideas but could add some fun

Have you ever played Bioshock 2?
What they do is spawn the big daddy armor somewhere random out of three or four remote spots in the game. If you get to it then you get to play as the big daddy.
This, only with terminater armor could be a good game mode.

Humbug, Big Daddies were worthless, and died in two seconds. I doubt the Terminators would fit in this.

So long as youre good with em you can make them last. Theyre not supposed to be invincible, just like terminaters should be. Just a step up with better armor and weapons.
To fit the scenario, halfway through the game a drop pod comes into the middle of the map, and whichever team gets there first gets the advantage of having a coulple suits of terminater armor.

Jollydevil wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:

Ferrumkit wrote:Thanks for the welcome, and yeah, only able to escape beamy death as a Tactical otherwise I usually flop over dead. I also thought of a couple good implements that coulda been added, , namely something like 1 terminator 'leader' for both sides, but the catch is, if they get killed they can't respawn as the terminator. figure a good way to allow all to equally get a chance is a randomizer to pick a person for each team. Or allow scouts/heretics with infiltration[stealth] and access to their reasonable armaments, bolter sniper rifle shotguns, I think they could be valid . Or for some realfun, take a note from TF2. A saxton hale mode, in which case it would be everyone's favorite loyalist, Emperor's Champion [Ala Black Templars] ... I know these are horrid ideas but could add some fun

Have you ever played Bioshock 2?
What they do is spawn the big daddy armor somewhere random out of three or four remote spots in the game. If you get to it then you get to play as the big daddy.
This, only with terminater armor could be a good game mode.

Humbug, Big Daddies were worthless, and died in two seconds. I doubt the Terminators would fit in this.

So long as youre good with em you can make them last. Theyre not supposed to be invincible, just like terminaters should be. Just a step up with better armor and weapons.
To fit the scenario, halfway through the game a drop pod comes into the middle of the map, and whichever team gets there first gets the advantage of having a coulple suits of terminater armor.

Nay, I say. Daddies were absolutely worthless, and I know two builds that could drop them in seconds or less. Insta kill, if both my brother and I found him at the same time, no counter could stop us.

As for Terminator armor, I don't see it happeneing; if each person on a team got a suit of Terminator armor, then the balancing factor would be they would only add slight boosts, which wouldn't be terminator like.

Slarg232 wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:

Ferrumkit wrote:Thanks for the welcome, and yeah, only able to escape beamy death as a Tactical otherwise I usually flop over dead. I also thought of a couple good implements that coulda been added, , namely something like 1 terminator 'leader' for both sides, but the catch is, if they get killed they can't respawn as the terminator. figure a good way to allow all to equally get a chance is a randomizer to pick a person for each team. Or allow scouts/heretics with infiltration[stealth] and access to their reasonable armaments, bolter sniper rifle shotguns, I think they could be valid . Or for some realfun, take a note from TF2. A saxton hale mode, in which case it would be everyone's favorite loyalist, Emperor's Champion [Ala Black Templars] ... I know these are horrid ideas but could add some fun

Have you ever played Bioshock 2?
What they do is spawn the big daddy armor somewhere random out of three or four remote spots in the game. If you get to it then you get to play as the big daddy.
This, only with terminater armor could be a good game mode.

Humbug, Big Daddies were worthless, and died in two seconds. I doubt the Terminators would fit in this.

So long as youre good with em you can make them last. Theyre not supposed to be invincible, just like terminaters should be. Just a step up with better armor and weapons.
To fit the scenario, halfway through the game a drop pod comes into the middle of the map, and whichever team gets there first gets the advantage of having a coulple suits of terminater armor.

Nay, I say. Daddies were absolutely worthless, and I know two builds that could drop them in seconds or less. Insta kill, if both my brother and I found him at the same time, no counter could stop us.
As for Terminator armor, I don't see it happeneing; if each person on a team got a suit of Terminator armor, then the balancing factor would be they would only add slight boosts, which wouldn't be terminator like.

Termi armor gives an extra shield and one of like 3 or 4 weapon classes like a heavy bolter, lascannon or power sword and stormbolter.

Heavy flamer... Assault cannon...

I just said those three because theyre already in the game. By all means, if the devs wanted to add those guns, itd be awesome.