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There is nothing in the OP's post that contradicts most of the rumours I have heard. There are a couple of contradictory points but nothing major.
The Chaos Legions book has apparently been in development for quite some time.
Apparently GW weren't that happy with the current CSM Codex and wanted to make changes almost straight after it was released but couldn't commit the resources. However they were aware of the problems with it.
Jervis Johnson mentioned the Legions Codex quite some time ago, and implied that the current CSM Codex would remain and would be used for Renegade Marines, whereas the Legions Codex would be Legion specific and be for those Legions left after the Horus Heresy that fled to the Eye of Terror.
All rumours point to this being available in First Quarter of 2012, so quite soon.
It will be much more in line with the older CSM Codex, so Legion specifiic with each Legion having specail rules. For those wanting to do traitor guard there will be a limited opportunity for this using the Alpha Legion list, which may be why a full codex was rejected.
In terms of the boxed set I have also heard strong rumours that it will be Dark Angels vs Traitor Marines, but I have heard rumours that the starter set will be very different to previous editions.
You can take this one with a huge pinch of salt, and I am not sure how much I believe it but thought I would share it as I have heard it from various sources.
There will be two versions of the starter set for the first time. Rather than the box containing two armies each will have one, so Dark Angels versions and a Traitor version. Each will have a selection of figures, but the extra space in the box will focus on scenery. So there will be a small Dark Angels force with a Dark Angels specific piece of scenery in one box, and a small Traitor force and Chaos specific scenery in the other.
GW cottoned onto the fact that most people go halves on the starter set and split the armies, which means less sales, or ebay one half again resulting in less sales. Having the starter set with just one army in but at the usual price means that if you want both armies you have to buy two boxed sets, and you won't be able to buy with a friend and spilt them now. However the extra scenery in the box apparently will make it worthwhile.
Again take that with a pinch of salt but I have heard that from credible sources. The boxed set should also be available around the time of the London Olympics, so some time around July/August next year.
The only things in the OPs post I have heard that contradict this are Eldar and Tau. However all things change rumour wise so who knows. I have heard that Tau have been ready for quite some time. At least the models. They were meant to be released this year but for some reason they were held back. This was due to be a models release without a Codex. New re-cut Battlesuits, Plastic Path Finders and a new unit entry that was to be a White Dwarf add on. It may be that they are now waiting for the Codex to be done and then release the new models then.
And Eldar will be a ways off just yet. Ther are all sorts of legal issues with Eldar and Tyranids that has meant they have been delayed, but that is a complicated issue for another thread unfortunately.
What a fantastic post, thanks for this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/30 10:06:29
A lot of GW releases are on hold until the whole Chapterhouse mess is resolved. There are issues over copyright which until resolved mean GW won't release some stuff until it's all over which won't be any time soon. This specifically relates to two models in the Chapterhouse range, but I don't want to derail this thread with that. However GW won't release some models but not others and so is having to hold off until they can release them all as a wave.
Dark Angels v's Chaos/Traitors works for me. The two box format is even better, as I'm always eager for terrain and I'm sure that would mean a couple extra figs on current content.
Some interesting rumours.
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
Deathly Angel wrote:As a good little Chaos fanboy, I'd love for CSM to be featured in the starter set, but a power armoured army vs another power armoured army, really? It is fluffy and awesome, but maybe not the best idea for a starter set? An IMO fluffier and even better choice would be traitor guard, cultists, mutants etc. led by a few Fallen against the Dark Angels, with an Interrogator Chaplian for the DAHQ... That scenario would really blow my mind and may even lead me to consider buying it as a non newbie.
That sounds awesome! That is why it would not happen
I agree, I'd skeetskeetskeet all over that boxed set with hawt man love
StraightSilver wrote:A lot of GW releases are on hold until the whole Chapterhouse mess is resolved. There are issues over copyright which until resolved mean GW won't release some stuff until it's all over which won't be any time soon. This specifically relates to two models in the Chapterhouse range, but I don't want to derail this thread with that. However GW won't release some models but not others and so is having to hold off until they can release them all as a wave.
So wait, does that mean Tyranid players should be venting at the court case for a lack of a second wave.
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
I cannot obviously corroborate it, but I have heard that is the case from credible sources, but again stuff said over a pint isn't always that reliable, but these are people that would normally know.
And yes that is apparently why the Tyranid wave has been held up and also why GW may never make Thunderwolves. Basically the third party companies that got there first can now challenge GW over copyright, not something they would ever allow to happen.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/09/30 10:26:03
As I say it may only be a rumour, and unfortunately I can't specifically say where most of my rumours have come from in case I drop anyone in it but they do work for the company and aren't a black or red shirt.
And it is specifically a couple of things, but these are fairly important ones.
It's just that Chapterhouse is attesting that it owns the copyright on a couple of GW concepts because it produced the models first. GW are challenging that but don't want to release their models in case Chapterhouse then challenge ownership.
Of course always take with a pinch of salt, but rumours are rumours I guess.
Hmm yes, I would think that any thunderwolf release that resembled Canis's TWC mount would be clear of any trouble.
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
Ther are all sorts of legal issues with Eldar and Tyranids that has meant they have been delayed
Legal issues?
Maybe they have a dispute with Tolkien Estate and H.R Giger, respectively
StraightSilver wrote:I cannot obviously corroborate it, but I have heard that is the case from credible sources, but again stuff said over a pint isn't always that reliable, but these are people that would normally know.
And yes that is apparently why the Tyranid wave has been held up and also why GW may never make Thunderwolves. Basically the third party companies that got there first can now challenge GW over copyright, not something they would ever allow to happen.
Hmm, that sounds pretty bizarre. It would be almost like if I wrote a book and then someone else writes a sequel for it, forbading me doing the same...
It's just that Chapterhouse is attesting that it owns the copyright on a couple of GW concepts because it produced the models first. GW are challenging that but don't want to release their models in case Chapterhouse then challenge ownership.
How can chapterhouse own concepts established by GW?
It's painfully obvious that chapterhouse is nothing but a company based on derivatives of GW works. Not even generic sci-fi, specifically GW.
It's just that Chapterhouse is attesting that it owns the copyright on a couple of GW concepts because it produced the models first. GW are challenging that but don't want to release their models in case Chapterhouse then challenge ownership.
How can chapterhouse own concepts established by GW?
It's painfully obvious that chapterhouse is nothing but a company based on derivatives of GW works. Not even generic sci-fi, specifically GW.
From my admitedlly limited knowledge, GW pretty much own the written and drawn concept. I suspect that this does not extend to any model kit or other representation.
We all know Chapterhouse are free loading and ripping on GW's harder work, but the court case it would seem is whether or not this is legal.
But enough on this bit I think. My knowledge is extremely limited in this area, and there's a lovely big thread about it in General!
Mr Mystery wrote:We all know Chapterhouse are free loading and ripping on GW's harder work, but the court case it would seem is whether or not this is legal.
Theres been lots of rumors of Marines vs Chaos Marines in the 6th ed box, but I don't see that happening for a few reasons.
The main being they're far too similar, and all the designers notes I've read for the 5/6/7/8 ed of Fantasy and 4/5 ed of 40k have said that they specifically chose an armored and a non-armored army in order to present different painting styles.
If it is indeed SM vs Chaos, I would expect it to be daemons or traitor guard, rather than CSM.
Hoping that the DA Codex appears post 6th Edition myself. I'm liking the hardback Fantasy army books as this will no doubt be introduced for 40K, I don't want DA to be the last soft back codex and then have to wait forever for a hardback edition.
Very interesting thread this, I was going to say it'd be a very cheap starter box for me as I only want the rule book but Streaightsilver's scenery rumblings sound very cool, say what you like about GW's prices/business methods/rules etc etc but I do love their scenery.
StraightSilver wrote:I cannot obviously corroborate it, but I have heard that is the case from credible sources, but again stuff said over a pint isn't always that reliable, but these are people that would normally know.
And yes that is apparently why the Tyranid wave has been held up and also why GW may never make Thunderwolves. Basically the third party companies that got there first can now challenge GW over copyright, not something they would ever allow to happen.
That sounds really bad but otoh it could lead to GW not doing this whole Codexes without models thing any more if it's resulted ina big unforeseen problem like this.
Mr Mystery wrote:We all know Chapterhouse are free loading and ripping on GW's harder work, but the court case it would seem is whether or not this is legal.
Bit harsh Mystery
Sorry man, but I calls them like I see them. Chapterhourse are using someone elses designs to churn out models.
I'd have to agree with Mr Mystery. GW makes the concepts, chapterhouse swoops in and makes "decent" quality replacement models, and posts them up on their oh-so-2001 website as "totally not space marines".
Now, does GW drop the ball by not releasing all the models for their units? Yes.
However, would things suck more if GW just didn't include rules for things that they didn't have time to release models for immediately? Double yes.
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
Medium of Death wrote:
How can chapterhouse own concepts established by GW?
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't understand how this could be a problem:
-if the court rules that Chapterhouse don't have the right to rip off GW's concepts, then they don't.
-if the court rules that Chapterhouse has the right to rip off GW's concept, then there is nothing to stop GW from ripping off Chapterhouse's concepts. Thus, Chapterhouse producing a "Tyrannofex" can't stop others producing similar concept.
Besides, aren't distinct unit and wargear names copyrighted to GW anyway?
Names are copyrighted, but shapes aren't.
They can make a Space Marine, and call it a Galactic Soldier, but GW gets to stomp about and shout about it, like they are.
AesSedai wrote:
2) Chaos legions codex. Apparently, there will be rules for fielding forces from the various traitor legions. I've heard this rumour around before. He mentioned that part of the focus will be to highlight to differences between normal marines and warped chaos marines, both in the appearance of the model and in the organizational structure of the legion. If I recall correctly, he mentioned this as the first release of 6th edition. Also of note, Apparently a pitch to release traitor guard as a codex was put forward and rejected though the person pitching it put forth a very good proposal.
But it already is! Well actually its "Imperium of Man 40k" anyways
5th edition books
IoM Books: Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, BT/DA Updates, Grey Knights, SoB (somewhat crappy) WD article
Xeno Book: Tyranids, Dark Eldar
Space Marines (and "normal" humans) sell
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/30 12:28:07
Skinnereal wrote:Names are copyrighted, but shapes aren't.
They can make a Space Marine, and call it a Galactic Soldier, but GW gets to stomp about and shout about it, like they are.
It's more complicated than that.
Take the Chapter House Doom Seer. It isn't part of the GW vs Chapter House case but it makes a good example.
There isn't a single element of the Doom Seer's design that isn't (a) different to the GW Far Seer models and (b) modelled on existing historical designs.
Despite that it is clearly a "not" Far Seer, based on its overall similarity to GW Far Seer models, if you have seen a GW Far Seer first.
The question the court must answer is whether GW's co-option of historical elements into an overall design is sufficiently original as to create an entirely new copyrightable work, and secondly if this has been achieved, have CH violated the putative copyright by copying the overall design with different individual elements.
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Oh my...... I feel a need to do unmentionabel things with you now Scottie 
