Defiance games. Plastic (resin) SCI FI manufacturer: chinese

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**18th Krasnograd**

spaceelf wrote:
18th Krasnograd wrote:Bumping to say the site is back up. Let's slashdot it again by all clicking on it, lemming like, at the same time!

Looks like the lemmings won, as when I checked the site I got a down for maintenance message.

WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE!

**insaniak**

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Where is that "like" button on Dakka when you need it?

Just to the left of the 'Friend' button at the bottom right of the post...

Kanluwen wrote:
Ouze wrote:Where are you guys seeing a prototype? All I see is concept art.

Page 2. Insaniak posted it, but apparently it is no longer a valid prototype as they've advanced the concept since then.

...based (supposedly) on feedback from people who didn't like it when it was originally aired. Thus proving the worth of showing 'vaporware' before release...

**Kanluwen**

I don't remember ever having seen that.

I call shenanigans, because I do like it!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sidenote: "that" is the preview model itself. I saw that other part though.

**insaniak**

I don't recall if it was originally posted on Dakka. I know it popped up on Frothers, which is probably where I saw it the first time around, and also on TMP. Initial reception was distinctly less than favorable..

**kenshin620**

insaniak wrote:I don't recall if it was originally posted on Dakka. I know it popped up on Frothers, which is probably where I saw it the first time around, and also on TMP. Initial reception was distinctly less than favorable..

Well as I said, I think these were the guys who made this survey forever ago. I could be mistaken though. Strange they never came back with the initial concepts if it is them

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/347697.page

**Delephont**

Just to clarify my point about "Vapour-ware", I'm all for companies coming forward to elicit opinion on an upcoming product, this has happened on Dakka a number of times! What I dislike are threads either from / about companies that have an "exciting" new product that will be available some time in the never never!

This thread, I realise, was started by an excited forum member, so fair enough, and maybe my comment was ill fitted to this particular situation, however, for me, it brings to mind a lot of threads that are in the same vein, and it's just a lot of hot air leading to nothing.

I don't think that GW policy of secrecy is the better way of doing things, like the Bhudda said, there is a middle path. Companies announcing products when they have a solid release date! Sure, gak can happen, and maybe the product is delayed by a week or two, that's acceptible (we're not talking about a cure for Cancer here!) but anything else is just blowing in the wind.....me thinks.

- Edited by insaniak. Don't try to circumvent the language filter. -

**insaniak**

Delephont wrote:Companies announcing products when they have a solid release date!

Which can't happen if they're posting the WIP in the hopes of garnering feedback on the design...

**Delephont**

insaniak wrote:
Delephont wrote:Companies announcing products when they have a solid release date!

Which can't happen if they're posting the WIP in the hopes of garnering feedback on the design...

I guess I view it as two distinct stages. In the first instance company X announces they are looking to produce product Y, and what do people think of our initial concepts and designs? This is a totally valid question, and makes no moves to state whether the product will go to production. To me this is the purpose of WIP photos etc.

The second stage is when the company has reviewed it's feedback, gone through product development and is now ready to release the product to market. This is when I would expect a second announcement.

I'll say no more on this subject as I think I've explained my thoughts, and while I'm sure it in no way de-rails the thread (as it's not going anywhere anyway) others may find this line of discussion boring.

**kenshin620**

Delephont wrote:Companies announcing products when they have a solid release date!

Problem with that is pretty much only GW and a select few big dogs do that as a lot of the other companies do not have the resources to guarantee when something is being made, it'll be 100% ready at that time. Heck sometimes even GW does this, a big example is when they plastered the Daemon Prince all over the WoC book, only to release it 1-2 years later

I think I had a similar conversation about this on tmp

**Delephont**

kenshin620 wrote:
Delephont wrote:Companies announcing products when they have a solid release date!

Problem with that is pretty much only GW and a select few big dogs do that as a lot of the other companies do not have the resources to guarantee when something is being made, it'll be 100% ready at that time. Heck sometimes even GW does this, a big example is when they plastered the Daemon Prince all over the WoC book, only to release it 1-2 years later

I think I had a similar conversation about this on tmp

I think this is all part of the process of new product introduction. If you know you can't guarantee a release date, how can you project your business costs? If you've borrowed money to finance a project, the chances are that those you borrowed from will want to know (within reason) a projected time line for a RoI (return on investment).....

If it's a small business, with a high degree of self financed projects, then it should be easy to project a realistic release date. For example, I'm using a caster from China, I expect to have the product available for purchase in three months time, so I advertise it as ready for sale in five months, giving a whole 2 months extra for any mishaps.....if a second tier supplier is late by two months, you need to be sourcing from a different supplier.

I think we reward business ineptitude too often in these niche hobbies, and in a way encourage it. We don't blink when products are late to market, we expect to have to "polish" a product after purchase (as part of the hobby experience) even though we spend top dollar on it, we don't complain when rules sets are released and require endless updates and FAQs, and yet for all of this companies still maintain it is a difficult sector to make money in!?!?

**winnertakesall**

There is a picture of the marine somewhere, op I think.

**spaceelf**

Delephont wrote:

I think this is all part of the process of new product introduction. If you know you can't guarantee a release date, how can you project your business costs? If you've borrowed money to finance a project, the chances are that those you borrowed from will want to know (within reason) a projected time line for a RoI (return on investment).....

If it's a small business, with a high degree of self financed projects, then it should be easy to project a realistic release date. For example, I'm using a caster from China, I expect to have the product available for purchase in three months time, so I advertise it as ready for sale in five months, giving a whole 2 months extra for any mishaps.....if a second tier supplier is late by two months, you need to be sourcing from a different supplier.

It is the whole expectation thing where you go wrong. Chinese casters will not guarantee production dates. They can even just plain screw with you, which is what I believe was claimed by Tony. Further, the product can get caught up in customs, etc. I think that Privateer Press had this problem recently.

Delephont wrote:
I think we reward business ineptitude too often in these niche hobbies, and in a way encourage it. We don't blink when products are late to market, we expect to have to "polish" a product after purchase (as part of the hobby experience) even though we spend top dollar on it, we don't complain when rules sets are released and require endless updates and FAQs, and yet for all of this companies still maintain it is a difficult sector to make money in!?!?

I think this is a reasonable criticism. However, as of late there has been quite a bit of discontent about the quality of a certain large miniature company's products.

**insaniak**

Delephont wrote:I think we reward business ineptitude too often in these niche hobbies, and in a way encourage it.

I think in general it's more that we accept it in the knowledge that a lot of these companies are small, one-man affairs run out of someone's garage.

We don't blink when products are late to market, we expect to have to "polish" a product after purchase (as part of the hobby experience) even though we spend top dollar on it, we don't complain when rules sets are released and require endless updates and FAQs, ...

We don't... ?

**Delephont**

insaniak wrote:
Delephont wrote:I think we reward business ineptitude too often in these niche hobbies, and in a way encourage it.

I think in general it's more that we accept it in the knowledge that a lot of these companies are small, one-man affairs run out of someone's garage.

We don't blink when products are late to market, we expect to have to "polish" a product after purchase (as part of the hobby experience) even though we spend top dollar on it, we don't complain when rules sets are released and require endless updates and FAQs, ...

We don't... ?

Oh we don't.......c'mon, the "little" bit of nerd rage that flashed before our screens......we all know, in the grand scheme of things, the likes of me and others screaming foul won't amount to didly....and half of those who vowed never to sup from the GW teet eventually scrambled back, if not in body, then certainly in soul.

Plus anyway, up until now I've tried to avoid bringing GW into this, for obvious reasons.....and plus ironically, as far as my original point is concerned, this is certainly not something that you could accuse GW of.

**kenshin620**

Well site is somewhat back up and they made a post about their plan

They talk big, but time will tell if they can deliver. I'd take what they say with some salt

Also, I bolded some of the....interesting bits

We're committed to releasing full ranges for many of the Forces in Alien War in an expedited fashion so that you can build your armies quickly. But we also can't help ourselves and want to get some of our favorite sets to market as fast as possible!

We know how important "complete ranges" are though - and so we wanted to give you some ideas about our plans and upcoming releases.

First, a bit about terminology. We don't use the word "faction" which we tend to associate with some weird political splinter group ala the People's Front of Judea vs. the Judean Popular People's Front vs. the the Popular Front of Judea (as seen in Monty Python's Life of Brian). Anyway, we prefer and use the term Force (and not in the midichlori-whatever-they-were way)

Forces in Alien War

A Force in Alien War is typically a military organization of a nation, corporation, alien race or other Power that may involve infantry, power armor (hardsuits), heavy weapons, APCs, tanks, walkers, other types of cavalry, gunships, off-table fire-support, and more - depending on the needs and traditions of that particular Force.

There are two types of Forces in Alien War - Core Forces and Edge Forces.

Core Forces are those that are associated with the major powers of the Alien War universe. Edge Forces are supplemental sets that add flavor to the universe but don't necessarily warrant a full army.

For example, when we introduce a Core Force like the venerable United States Marine Corps, we will outline the plan for the follow-on sets in that Force over the next weeks and months. So with the USMC you'll have infantry followed closely by power armor (what we call hardsuits), then female Marines, and then heavy weapons. Over time, we will continue to add to those Core Forces with supplemental sets, vehicles, etc. - all in hard plastic. Core Forces will always be treated in this fashion so that you know what's coming and when to flesh out your army.

Edge Forces will represent a unit or small Force that can be done in one or two sets that we really believe should come to life to enhance the Alien War setting. For example, this might be a special operations unit within one of the lesser powers in the game, a "civilian" set, one of the native alien races, or an interesting vehicle that might not fit under the umbrella of a Core Force. Given the dynamic nature of alliances and multi-sided battles within the setting, these Edge sets may be used as auxiliaries with your army or just as small armies in games you play. These sets may never be followed by additional sets for that Force...but wait, that's not necessarily true...

In some cases, there may be a desire on the part of the community to enhance an existing Edge Force with additional sets. We'll always be open to doing this if enough people are behind it. For example, one of our first Edge Force sets are the Valkyries - hardsuit wearing, all-female elite special operations troops of the Nordic Federation. The Nordic Federation "may" become a Core Force over time, but we don't have a specific plan for that at present. We do think the set will be a fun one and add a lot of flavor to the game. If enough of you are interested in expanding the NF into a full Core Force, we can do that.

The division between Core and Edge Forces will give us the ability to launch some really fun "extra" sets while allowing you to have the confidence that a Force you begin to build will be fully realized if it's a Core one. We hope you like this approach to releases!

**Kanluwen**

Bookmarked, and now following them on Twitter.

I am keeping up with this. This has promise.
I love what they're doing with their universe. The Plan has me heavily intrigued.

**AlexHolker**

...female Marines... vehicles... Valkyries - hardsuit wearing, all-female elite special operations troops of the Nordic Federation...

I'll have to wait and see what the quality is like, but if they do these three things right, I'll be buying a lot of Defiance miniatures.

**Kanluwen**

You forgot the civilians, Alex.

**Centurionpainting**

Crossing my fingers for this company, bookmarked.

**AlexHolker**

Kanluwen wrote:You forgot the civilians, Alex.

I didn't. They're not confirmed yet for one, unlike the things I did list. And besides that, while I'd be glad to see someone making them, "civilians" is too broad a category to say whether I'd be in the market myself except on a case-by-case basis.

**Slipstream**

I must say that I'm looking forward to seeing what this company do. I've got this feeling that I've not had since the build up to the launch of Rogue Trader way back in the eighties: it just has this 'atmosphere' around it. I am also looking forward to see what Mantic come up with further down the line with Warpath. At the moment I've no real interest in space dwarves(I even viewed them as a joke way back then also; don't get me started on ratling snipers!).
On the whole the alternatives are starting to look more promising, long may it continue.

**DustGod**

postin news about your game company on dakka... Better wear a flak Jacket....
This forum is so hard on its user... You guys treat each other like $#¡+....

Reminds me of a group of cool tough guys from Idiocracy...

This place is full of repressed nerd rage and sexual frustration... Even some of the MOD are blood thirsty,
Reminds me of the old "lord of the flies" movie...

Whatta Shark tank

I'm not mad at you for trying make a new game Defiance... Even if its home brewed. DP9 been home brewed for years.... Good luck to you.

**Grot 6**

5deadly wrote:postin news about your game company on dakka... Better wear a flak Jacket....
This forum is so hard on its user... You guys treat each other like $#¡+....

Reminds me of a group of cool tough guys from Idiocracy...

This place is full of repressed nerd rage and sexual frustration... Even some of the MOD are blood thirsty,
Reminds me of the old "lord of the flies" movie...

Whatta Shark tank

I'm not mad at you for trying make a new game Defiance... Even if its home brewed. DP9 been home brewed for years.... Good luck to you.

Thanks, I guess.

The game is vaporware. Site looks meh, all this game is is Starship Troopers V2.

Only thing missing is a claim that the prepaints will look 80% better then most people can paint.

As to the rest of your spoutings, if you don't like it, stuff it.

You want to polish a turd and call it fried gold, you go right ahead. Me? I don't like any of it. It's generic that we've seen 1000 times before.

Meh. Pass.

**plastictrees**

5deadly wrote:gibberish

Your incoherent raging in the Bushido thread was some sort of ironic performance art then?

Looking forward to seeing what Defiance comes up with.

**agnosto**

This is the internet, incoherent raging is what it's all about.

**Guildsman**

Trying not to get too optimistic about this. The premise is great, but there's nothing to go on yet, just the same three concept pictures and a barely functioning website. Most of the links don't even work.

**Ian Sturrock**

I love the concept art of the Panzer Grenadiers, am indifferent about the Bugs (not enough info yet), and really dislike the US Marines.

I feel like, if you're giving humans armour, you start with the helmet and torso armour (great, sorted), and then if you have the resources, thighs come next if it's ballistic armour (hit in the thigh can be lethal, very easily -- Black Hawk Down style). If it's more like riot / anti-close-combat-weapon armour, you might just armour the shins and knees before the thighs, but only if you were also armouring the arms... so yeah, I really dislike the armoured boot-shinpad-things because they seem to lack context, other than "SF Troopers Need Big Boots".

**DustGod**

Plastictrees I'm glad you like my art know my work...That kinda makes me smile, you should follow me on twitter
Kisses

**Pacific**

Right, this is the internet, and I expect to see a good bit of incoherent raging every time I come here (otherwise I would be disappointed! ^^)

The artwork definitely looks promising, will wait for some more pics with interest.

**insaniak**

5deadly wrote:This place is full of repressed nerd rage and sexual frustration... Even some of the MOD are blood thirsty,

It always amuses me that saying anything remotely critical about a company gets blown up into 'rage' or mindless 'hating'...

I'm not mad at you for trying make a new game Defiance... Even if its home brewed. DP9 been home brewed for years.... Good luck to you.

Nobody is 'mad' at Defiance. But in the absence of them really showing anything much, people will judge them on their previous efforts. And the WGF ranges were notoriously hit-and-miss.