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I asked about the hardsuits over on their new forum, and Tony posted some concept art in response.

...Daddy likes.

Oh wow. That looks delicious. The USMC Marines don't look as great as the concept art, but if the Hardsuits follow that great concept closely enough, and are in plastic, I'm totally in.

It's okay...I keep looking for some kind of sensor array or detail in the middle of where the face would be.

Maybe its just me but I feel like its missing something. Like the German trooper, LOVE the backstory, the armor suits are good. Suffice to say this model alone won't push me into the game in earnest.

Kanluwen wrote:

...Daddy likes.

Wow, that looks pimping. The fluff for the universe seems rather awsome, after a little poking around the website I regestered, its looks awsome. And if nothing ever comes of it atleast I got some awsome pic's to save on my HD.

Edit, check out the comms chatter http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/forum.. atleast it looks like they are trying. I hope there are good nuggets of info in there. I can't wait to read more about this galaxy and the players involved.

The minis look good. I wonder how the weapons would translate to the 40k rules though...

I am getting very afraid, the concepts look like frigging video game material but there are so many pitfalls which can make the transition less than satisfactory

Gop wrote:The minis look good. I wonder how the weapons would translate to the 40k rules though...

Bit too futurisitc methinks though?

These seem far better for sci fi games like Future Wars

The concept art is really good looking; very promising. Their plan, as it were, sounds great. Talk is cheap, obviously, but so far I'm keeping optimistic. They at least seem to have their ideas in order for the time being.

Brother SRM wrote:The concept art is really good looking; very promising. Their plan, as it were, sounds great. Talk is cheap, obviously, but so far I'm keeping optimistic. They at least seem to have their ideas in order for the time being.

Yeah. The only model they have made is that bug right? Even if that was scrapped, it still looked awful. I wish them luck living up to their art.

ph34r wrote:Yeah. The only model they have made is that bug right? Even if that was scrapped, it still looked awful. I wish them luck living up to their art.

They made the soldier in the first post, but the photo is too zoomed out to really judge.

5deadly wrote:Reminds me of the old "lord of the flies" movie...

Looking at how you post, maybe you should have read the book instead. Or paid attention at school.

kenshin620 wrote:I am getting very afraid, the concepts look like frigging video game material but there are so many pitfalls which can make the transition less than satisfactory

Gop wrote:The minis look good. I wonder how the weapons would translate to the 40k rules though...

Bit too futurisitc methinks though?

These seem far better for sci fi games like Future Wars

Or better yet, Infinity. Methink I see the archaic TAG that many an Ariadna player has been hoping for...

Kanluwen wrote:

...Daddy likes.

Reminds me of the powersuits from SF3D/Maschinen Krieger Zbv 3000. Or simply MaK.



http://www.maschinenkrueger.com/joomla/

^^ Pretty much bang on.

I like the styling, but, to me, it's pretty much a direct copy of the SAFS-style suits from SF3D/MaK.

AJC

if they are 28mm then I would be interested

Perhaps its not original, but so far theres little power armor in plastic on the market

zombie wrote:if they are 28mm then I would be interested

According to them they are 28mm

Not sure what kind though

http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/valkyrie-concept-rough-draft-for-review

They put up the Nordic Federation Valkyrie concept art and would like feedback on it.

Damn that hard-suit above looks awesome. I can imagine painting that in white and putting 'UN' iconography on it

I'm really liking some of the new sci-fi stuff that is coming along these days. In amongst Heavy Gear, Infinity, Anima Tactics, even Mercs, it has never looked so rosy for the near-future sci-fi collector.

They put up the Nordic Federation Valkyrie concept art and would like feedback on it.

Looks pretty good to be honest, they obviously have a talented artist working for them.

The first thing under "Fiction" is almost verbatim from the movie Aliens.

"Is this going to be a stand up fight or another bug hunt, sir?"

"That's enough private," Sergeant Johnson snapped. "Eyes front and listen to the Lieutenant!"

Lieutenant Gordon cleared her throat. "As I was saying, our last communication from Eden was inconclusive. The colonists have most likely had a technical communication problem...

It looks like an old MAK model. I dig the style..weapons look cool style is pretty cool. They do these in multi part plastic I might buy some.
I'm pretty sure I've seen the art on Deviantart before.. I follow the mech/mecha artist pretty close.

If this kit is done right....

Hi, maybe I can offer a little to this thread.

The name's Richard and I'm a semi-insider in Defiance Games (playtester in the ruleset they'll be coming out with later) so I can probably offer some insights.

The Bug posted above IS a very early concept; originally, the Bugs were going to be released first followed by Marines. However, given the generally poor reaction to the Bugs the design was scrapped and will be redone as the company's 3rd release. Personally, the original Bug design grew on me as sort of a random alien life form but not as an OMG huge swarm. I'm not overly enthused about more humans myself, but the Bugs -- yes please! I should probably go on the playtesting forum and start whining for concept stuff.

Right now, the Marines are in tooling and I've seen a mold prototype of one of the weapons (proof of concept) along with pre-renders of the Sprue contents. The Germans are in the design process and I've seen the early renders -- they look quite nice! No headshots yet -- just early renders of the legs and torso. I'm not personally thrilled by the helmet design on the Marine, but it's kinda grown on me. I can't tell you when they'll be released because, at this point, nobody knows, but it should only be a matter of time. What I can say is that they are NOT vaporware. Molds ARE being cut, boxes HAVE been designed, a pricing scheme HAS been finalized, and Tony et all are just waiting to have the physical product in hand before putting them on sale. None of this "pre-release orders that ship six months after they should have" nonsense!

The designer of the minis is the same one that did ALL of Wargames Factory's products, a dude named Tim. He's been working on minis renders for years now and his improved greatly, plus the company they're using should be able to achieve a high level of detail. The preview mini is actually a 3D printed prototype; I don't know if the actual sprues have been completed yet, but us playtester types are hoping for a release within a couple of months. Part of the problem is just working out methods -- plastic flow, how much you can fit on the sprue, etc. It's the same for any plastic product, or at least it was for Wargames Factory. The scale is 28mm, 1/56 slightly heroic and should be compatible with other mini lines, including GW. The company's people have been pretty adamant about keeping things within a reasonable true-scale. The assorted hardsuits: the USMC version above and the Valkyrie that's in the concept stage, won't be too much bigger than the regular minis. Terminator proxy is all I'm saying.

The power armor, interestingly enough, is not an "original" design: it was licensed from the same concept artist that did the Marine, German, and bugs. I'm not sure if Tim's started working on it yet, but I do not the concept artist has sent a reference document for the render. Actually, from what I understand it was the licensing of the Powered Armor that led to the Marine and German designs, both of which were commissioned afterward.

Again, I can't really say anything about the release except "soon" because, well, I'm not an employee of Defiance Games of a true "insider." I just get information slightly faster than the rest of the world. However, right now I know for a fact that the Marines are done and in tooling, the Germans should be complete soon, and the Bugs will be the third release. According to Tony Reidy, Defiance's owner, the digital design process they use should lead to a fast turnaround time for sets since they can send the files directly to the manufacturer, who is US-based and apparently within driving distance of Tony rather than on the other side of the world as was the case with WF. This doesn't mean a set a week or even a month, but they should be able to maintain a fairly ready release schedule. Plus, the digital design allows models to be quickly altered and repurposed (so, for instance, heavy weapons sets should be easier to do).

As to the website: Defiance Games has four employees, none of whom are particularly knowledgeable about forum coding. Tony Reidy is the de facto web guy and he's having to learn as he goes with help from the webhost, but . . . well . . . it's kinda a case of trial-and-error with the occasional "Oh gak, the entire site's vanished again!" This isn't a huge million-dollar operation we're talking about

Oh, and they're plan is to release infantry sets in 24s, Hardsuits is 12, and vehicles (which'll be a ways off) probably in twos depending on how big the thing is; prices should be the same across the board, so no core infantry for one armor $25 and $50 for another armor. There is also a plan to release sets like Heavy Weapons teams both in boxes and in clamshells containing all the parts for a single team, so if all you need is one Autocannon team, they'll have you covered the same will probably go for specialist type minis, but that's a ways off. Right now, the company is being a little conservative and just focusing on the score stuff; experiment are for later when a failed on will not put them all out on the street! It'll all be in plastic, by the way, so there'll be plenty of room for modding and conversions.

Anywho, I hope that was useful. Again, I'm only speaking as a semi-insider and, as far as I know, none of this is confidential. With Tony's permission I might be able to post some of the concepts I've seen, though . . . well . . . that depends on if I can get permission.

If you like, I come back and fill you in on a little of the universe as well. Tony's keeping that close to his chest since it's his baby, though we've all been contributing; I, for instance, wrote some of the preliminary fluff (subject to change) on the Bugs and even gave them their name (I'm so proud! When your Marines are getting slaughtered by Bugs in some abandoned colony you can thank me!).

are they called teranids ?

Nope.

Hudson's Bugs, named after their discover/first victim


We're still deciding on what sort of nickname (aside from Bugs) to call them.


I thought I'd mention a little about the setting:

It's 2259 and humanity has become heavily balkanized. The UN, EU, and other global unions are a thing of the past and most nations are going it on their own, colonized worlds and competing as necessary, sometimes even warring. Due to the limits of the FTL drive used in the setting it is difficult and expensive to wage a large-scale war so most actions will involve relatively small numbers of troops and low-intensity conflicts. Nations operate by realpolitik: making alliances and necessary and sometimes working together, sometimes fighting as necessary to achieve their own goals. Nationalism has become very important with all the good and bad that entails. However, despite the level of fighting the Alien War universe is that particularly grim nor dark: it's a time of expansion, exploration and colonization for humanity along with new ways of doing things. There are no inherent good guys and bad guys in the setting: the good guys are the ones fighting with you and the bad guys are the ones in your gunsights. The USMC and the Germans, as the first two forces, might work together one day and fight the next depending on the shifting nature of national alliances.

Part of the inspiration for the setting is the Age of Imperialism where European nations set out on earth to conquer and colonize the world, except that this time their doing it to the galaxy. Much of the "Alien" part of the Alien War universe will come from edge forces that can be incorporated as mercenaries in standing armies or used by themselves. We've got several ideas floating around, including two I'm personally pushing for. However, aside from the Bugs the primary focus will be on human forces. Though the setting draws a bit from the Age of Imperialism the aesthetics are going to be gritty sci-fi, drawing from Aliens and other movies for inspiration (and one of the projects we're working with on the forum is a Bug Hunt rules-set using Marines and Bugs, though that'll be a while yet if it even emerges.

Aside from the Bugs, another force I'm personal excited about (which hasn't got beyond the very early planning stage right now) is China. China in this setting is a true superpower with holdings all across Earth and a policy of aggressive expansionism. China controls client states in Africa and South America and so its troops and colonists will be truly multi-ethnic. Early plans are for a general "militia" style infantry who form the bulk of China's extra-solar military and act as security and defense while aggressive actions come in the form of elite troops using state-of-the-art weaponry and armor. I'm looking forward to the militia myself because I'm always a fan of the underdog and those guys are definitely the underdog (but should not be underestimated -- what they may like in technology they make up for with courage and dedication).

any chance you can find out the name of the company they have hired to do their production? I'm looking for a good one myself

Xeno wrote:Nope.

Hudson's Bugs, named after their discover/first victim


We're still deciding on what sort of nickname (aside from Bugs) to call them.


I thought I'd mention a little about the setting:

It's 2259 and humanity has become heavily balkanized. The UN, EU, and other global unions are a thing of the past and most nations are going it on their own, colonized worlds and competing as necessary, sometimes even warring. Due to the limits of the FTL drive used in the setting it is difficult and expensive to wage a large-scale war so most actions will involve relatively small numbers of troops and low-intensity conflicts. Nations operate by realpolitik: making alliances and necessary and sometimes working together, sometimes fighting as necessary to achieve their own goals. Nationalism has become very important with all the good and bad that entails. However, despite the level of fighting the Alien War universe is that particularly grim nor dark: it's a time of expansion, exploration and colonization for humanity along with new ways of doing things. There are no inherent good guys and bad guys in the setting: the good guys are the ones fighting with you and the bad guys are the ones in your gunsights. The USMC and the Germans, as the first two forces, might work together one day and fight the next depending on the shifting nature of national alliances.

Part of the inspiration for the setting is the Age of Imperialism where European nations set out on earth to conquer and colonize the world, except that this time their doing it to the galaxy. Much of the "Alien" part of the Alien War universe will come from edge forces that can be incorporated as mercenaries in standing armies or used by themselves. We've got several ideas floating around, including two I'm personally pushing for. However, aside from the Bugs the primary focus will be on human forces. Though the setting draws a bit from the Age of Imperialism the aesthetics are going to be gritty sci-fi, drawing from Aliens and other movies for inspiration (and one of the projects we're working with on the forum is a Bug Hunt rules-set using Marines and Bugs, though that'll be a while yet if it even emerges.

Aside from the Bugs, another force I'm personal excited about (which hasn't got beyond the very early planning stage right now) is China. China in this setting is a true superpower with holdings all across Earth and a policy of aggressive expansionism. China controls client states in Africa and South America and so its troops and colonists will be truly multi-ethnic. Early plans are for a general "militia" style infantry who form the bulk of China's extra-solar military and act as security and defense while aggressive actions come in the form of elite troops using state-of-the-art weaponry and armor. I'm looking forward to the militia myself because I'm always a fan of the underdog and those guys are definitely the underdog (but should not be underestimated -- what they may like in technology they make up for with courage and dedication).

I noticed you said China is going to be a "true superpower" but also an "underdog." So, there will be a huge amount of militia complemeted by elite special ops units? You said it was the early stages but do you have an idea of the aesthetic? Something like this, maybe:



Also, what kind of vehicles can we expect for the different armies? Does the company plan to make vehicles a large part of the game like 40K, or will they be less important than the infantry fight? Will 40K and Alien War be comparable in terms of game size? I understand you are not an "actual insider" but any illumination would be helpful.

AJCarrington wrote:I like the styling, but, to me, it's pretty much a direct copy of the SAFS-style suits from SF3D/MaK.

Reminds me also a lot of MaK. In a good way, I am looking with great interest at this project!

IMO the existing (cheap) MaK models in 1/35 can be used very nicely together with 28mm one.


Just see my website for some ideas:
http://www.adpublishing.de/html/maschinenkrieger.html

chaos0xomega,

Tony said to shoot him an e-mail at the Defiance Games site and let him know.



About the Hardsuit design:
While you'd have to ask the artist, I'm fairly certain it was modeled after the MaKs, which is rather nice because a lot of use thought they'd fit the role the Hardsuit is supposed to fill: as a Heinlein-esque Ape Suit a la Starship Troopers. Heavily armored, jump jets, bomb racks, the whole nine yards. The suit you see will actually be on the low-end of the tech scale: the 23rd century Marines tend to get all the crap details (Bug Hunts, long tours of the stars, colonial security, etc) and so also get hand-me downs from the main Army. A far cry from the modern day and age, but they're still a bunch of hard bastards more than capable of kicking ass with less

China:
As I said, the force profile for China is still a long ways way. However, the basic concept is that the old Chinese order (the current quasi-capitalist communism) collapsed violently, falling into a state of wardlordism. One of these warlords managed to unify most of China and declared a new empire. As the Chinese empire consolidated it annexed a number of other nations struggling to survive as the rest of the world balkanized around them. On Eath, China controls much of Asia along with parts of South America and Africa. The empire's philosophy is aggressive expansionism. The first set to be released, the militia, represents the ubiquitous troops recruited and trained in large numbers of protect China's diverse colonies. They're not particularly well-equipped or supported, unfortunately, making Chinese somewhat vulnerable to the predations of other forces in setting, including the US.

There hasn't been much of discussion of the elite troops yet, or really much about the gear the average militia will carry, though I do know the goal is to create a set that, with some modification can be used as anything from sci-fi militia to 1960s 3rd world military. I'm personally hoping from flak vests and numerous pseudo-rpgs myself, but that's a ways off. The only mention the powers that be have made of the other forces is that they include state-of-the-art powered armor piloted by elite troops. Really scary guys, honestly, and a rather powerful deterrent to anyone trying to contest China's power. The militia, though, in terms of the 23rd century battlefield, are something like cannon fodder . . . though, last I checked, low-tech troops properly handled can make things very painful for a modern military.


Rules:
While I can't say much about the actual rule-set (and, right now, I actually mean that literally -- they are undergoing revision and should look entirely different from the set we've been using), I can say that the initial rules set will be designed for platoon-scale actions with the possibility of a few vehicles, ideally played on a 4x4 board with a LOT of terrain. The weapons are nasty and can easily chew up an entire squad if they get caught in the open. It's all about fire, maneuver, act, and react. Plus, there is a fog of war element with random events that will be customized to the force and to the scenario. The Germans will have different events than the Bugs will have different events than the Marines, and so on. Scenario-specific events have, so far, not been focused on as much but will be visited when the design team starts working on scenarios. There is a plan, once the rules are done, to create starter box with two basic forces and a series of scenarios, with special rules for each type and so on. Ideally there'll be quite a few of these so it'll be easy to just pick up a box and play!

Personally, if I have MY way, Defiance will do it's own version of Space Hulk.

Other aspects will include a system for named characters including traits and squads gaining experience through campaign play. Additionally, when the rules are complete the Defiance Crew plan to put a quick-start insert and force sheet into every box so that it'll be easy to pick up, say, a box of Marines and Germans and have them shooting at each other inside of a hour. Speaking of force profiles, there will be a point system for creating your own troops, but right now the goal is that each force will have its own specific order of battle and you pick and choose a few options, such as swapping out a SAW for an RPG, dropping a special weapon to increase the experience of a couple of guys, and so forth. A Marine platoon, for instance, would be 3 twelve-man squads of three fire teams each, a command squad, and a heavy weapons squad (based on the real-world USMC organization). When creating your force, you start out with a base profile: in this case each fireteam have a Corporal with a rifle and underbarrel grenade launcher, a SAW gunner and assistant, and a rifleman/scout. You can, if you choose, swap out the SAW to increase a couple in experience (which can pay off big time), or maybe give your Corporal a shotgun instead of the rifle, and so on. At the platoon level you can field medics, RTOs, observers, flamer guys for cooking bugs, etc.

So, rather than spending a lot of time building a list you choose your face, make a couple of swaps if you wish, and start fighting. While this does mean many forces won't be inherently balanced, part of the goal of the game is using the resources available to you. A Marine squad, for instance, fields three SAWs and three grenade launchers: in the Alien War system that is a ridiculous amount of firepower, enough to turn a platoon of Chinese militia into dog food . . . assuming the militia try to fight the Marines head on. Meanwhile, with their heavy armor the Germans can wade through all that firepower (well, not exactly, but close) while firing back with high-powered rifles and excellent special weapons. This is balanced out by the fact that, for instance, there will be a LOT more Chinese than Marines, and the Marines will outnumber the Germans probably 2-1.

After the basic set is done, we'll probably work on a streamline version for company-level games; the current rules-set, though fast playing is better suited for small actions with individual squads and fireteams, and things like random events tend to affect this.

Vehicles:
The base rules aren't going to place too much emphasis on vehicles since there will probably only be a few on the table at a time, but the hypothetical company-level game will probably be different. Given that the default assumption is that the game will take place in a terrain-rich environment, vehicles will have some distinctive disadvantages, though they'll carry a lot of firepower to even the odds. I haven't personally seen the vehicle rules yet, so I can't really comment beyond that little bit.

Mode-wise, the current plan is to produce a small handful of universal hulls that will be customized based on the force, the in game justifcation being that they are made by a few large arms manufacturers and through joint development deals. For instance, in better times the US and Germany might have collapsed to develop an IFV, but when relations soured they wound up fighting it out with same vehicles, though in different configurations. Ultimately, though, vehicles are a LOT more expensive to produce than infantry so their not exactly high on the production order; the people at Defiance want to get a bit more established first.


Oh, and in case you wanted something else to wet your appetite:
The Marines will be 24 for $30, enough to field two full squads in the game, and the minis will not only be modifiable and fully compatible with other troops, but will contain enough special weapons that you can easily field a standard squad. When enough sets are released, you can do quite a bit of parts switching, such as Marine torsos with German bits for light infantry, or Marine arms and heads on Chinese troops for American colonial militia. Or, if you really want to get crazy, slap Bug parts on a standard human body to create nightmarish mutant hybrid monstrosities *cough*Genestealer Cult*cough*

No word on if they'll make Zoats and Slann, though

Kanluwen wrote:http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news/item/valkyrie-concept-rough-draft-for-review

They put up the Nordic Federation Valkyrie concept art and would like feedback on it.

The term "thunder thighs" comes to mind...

Xeno: Have you seen other pictures of finished models/prototypes? I got the impression from the Marine mini that they're shooting for something closer to 25mm than the 28-32mm that were seeing from a lot of companies at the moment, is that the case?

plastictrees wrote:Xeno: Have you seen other pictures of finished models/prototypes? I got the impression from the Marine mini that they're shooting for something closer to 25mm than the 28-32mm that were seeing from a lot of companies at the moment, is that the case?

They've explicitly said that they're aiming for 28mm scale.