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Modded.

Modded.

Pyriel- wrote:It's pretty simple really and can be summed up with: haters gonna hate.
Just scroll through the thread and check posts like ph3ars, perfect example of bitter trolling, zero contribution to the topic at hand, just the urge to lash out blindly. You enter a thread just so spew a one liner "I-hate" sentence and then disappear while constantly lurking to make yet another jab at someone or something you hate (hence him being a candidate as a fun object of interest for a psychology class), but It's how the internet works for some you know.

What's funny, is the anti-GW crowd does the exact same thing. They're actually worse because they pop up and spout off in threads where there's a perfectly normal, unrelated discussion going on.

Stay on topic.

It's unfortunate that the lawsuit may affect the release schedule, however I can clearly see GW's motivations behind doing so. They have to play with their hand held tightly to their chest from here on out, if they want to maintain a tight grip over their IP (which is understandable).

All in all... this may benefit us as players, because I don't know about you-all, but I am intensely impressed with the way Ogre Kingdom's was released, the completeness of the model range, and the quality there-in.

Double edged sword. Delays some 'Nid models... make's future releases more complete.

I do like how PH proclaims " the 8 people in his gaming group won't be buying from Chapterhouse."

LOL I guess the 100-150 people in my community that do buy from Chapterhouse will just hafta make up for it.

StraightSilver wrote:Because the production of metal models will no longer apparently be in Lenton.

Giaour36 wrote:not true at all. Production has not moved out of Lenton.

StraightSilver wrote:GW paints are also produced overseas now, although I don't believe paints were ever produced in house but always by a third party, but I believe they used to be produced in the UK.

Giaour36 wrote:Actually the opposite is true, the overseas facility in Shanghai, which did run the paint production line, was closed towards the end of last year. The equipment was shipped to Lenton for it be managed there.

Straightsilver, I hope whoever is feeding you this stuff about GW/CHS isn't the same person who told you GW was moving production facilities overseas. GW's financial statements say the opposite is true; Production of models, paints etc has been centralised in the UK (for quite some time now).

Everyone else, ^

Personally I don’t understand the vitriol towards CH either. If you don’t like a company, don’t buy from them simple as that. Why the need for a subsequent witch hunt?

I’ve noticed that the anti-CH crowd tend to be overly antagonistic with their posts. All I can say is to not reply and to use the ever awesome dakka ignore feature. It’s what I do.

Pyriel- wrote:

It's pretty simple really and can be summed up with: haters gonna hate.
Just scroll through the thread and check posts like ph3ars, perfect example of bitter trolling, zero contribution to the topic at hand, just the urge to lash out blindly. You enter a thread just so spew a one liner "I-hate" sentence and then disappear while constantly lurking to make yet another jab at someone or something you hate (hence him being a candidate as a fun object of interest for a psychology class), but It's how the internet works for some you know.

This whole thread ought to be locked like it was originally since it is based on 100% rumors and hearsay and on top of that is about a topic that haters are bound to flock to like flies to a turd.
See, now I´m starting to get seriously pissed too and oh boy, we know where this will end up. Maybe I get a vacation for feeding trolls but then again I would get so much more sculpting done while on one...

Coming new into this thread I am more under the impression, that you are the one that does ,,bitter trolling, zero contribution to the topic at hand, just the urge to lash out blindly".

I suspect the reason the previous thread was closed because there is no real debate going on here. There are a handful of decent posts followed by lots of internet rage. People sure do get worked up over little toy soldiers

Something I've been wondering about, regarding CH's Tervigon delaying the release of GW's. Chapterhouses isn't a model. It is, technically, without a GW Carnifex to put it on, 3 peices of unassemblable metal.

Surely GW would have grounds to release a complete kit, given it would actually resemble something.

fullheadofhair wrote:This thread is a total crock. It is 100% supposition and conjecture based of nothing reliable. Some of what is being said is almost grassy knoll stuff. Since this CH/GW issue it seems to me that Kroot really seems to be cranked up on the GW hate - and seeing as I cannot stand their incompetence either that is saying something.

I am willing to bet very good money that GW lawyers have a better understanding of IP than 99.9% of people who post here. I am also willing to bet very good money that they just expected CH to fold because of the costs involved and certainly didn't anticipate a pro-bono situation. Now they have to get themselves out of a stupid situation they have created without buggering anything else up. Often, it is the simple explantion that is the case.

I am reminded of two sayings:
Don't put down to malice what can often be put down to stupidity.

Dont' mistake incompetence for a strategy.

I agree with Janthkin. This thread is a waste and should be closed like the other CH/GW thread Kroot tried to spin off.

I also need to find another website for my lunch time. I am starting to shake my head at too many threads.

QFT.

Mantis840 wrote:LOL I guess the 100-150 people in my community that do buy from Chapterhouse will just hafta make up for it.

Nobody is impressed with this kind of puerile one-upmanship. This forum is a sandbox , even if by your capering antics, an onlooker might get that impression.

candy.man wrote:Personally I don’t understand the vitriol towards CH either. If you don’t like a company, don’t buy from them simple as that. Why the need for a subsequent witch hunt?

From my own observations, it's because Chapterhouse, Maxmini, Kromlech et al are seen as morally repugnant parasites. Added to that the opinion that space marine shoulder pads are the lowest, least inventive form of third-party addons, and the judgement that Chapterhouse's sculpting quality is subpar in the eyes of many of its detractors, and the reactions we've seen publicly exhibited become explicable and inevitable.

Howard A Treesong wrote:It's not like other companies had to rush to release their thunderwolf conversions. Months rolled by before others were released and never a peep from GW.

I quite remember a quote about the thunderwolf cavalry, We have a Thunderwolf model out, use it. I.e. buy the character on the wolf and get chopping. Not sure who said it, but I remember complaints at the time that a single squad would be more than $250

The whole Tyranid codex release really left me scratching my head overall. They took a decent army, gave it lots of problems to deal with, severely cut it's power level and left it with a few halfway decent builds. They took old powerhouse models and made them all but useless due to overcosting on their points, and as such, many people switched to new 'armies of the month' to find something that was decently competitive. Could the real reason that we aren't seeing more 'nid models is that GW doesn't really care about the codex right now? Are the bugs being 'squatted' for a while? We have issues with armies going back quite far with models never being released or only being available from forgeworld (if we are lucky)

Where are the IG Griffon? The Medusa, the Colossus? Where is the Hydra? None of these are produced that I know of by any other company, yet, surprise surprise, there are no GW non forgeworld models for them. Eldar has gaps in their codex going back 10+ years. The vast majority of GW players aren't nearly tuned in to the hobby as we are. Most would have no idea what Chapterhouse even is.

When the 'nids came out, They gave one of the new big uglies a great model, the Trygon/Mawlock kit, they gave us the venomthrope, and they gave us the pyrovore, a model that I have yet to see in any tyranid lists that are expected to be taken seriously. The items that are the most popular sort of items in the list, the Mycetic Spores, and the Tervigon, and to a lesser extent the Tyranofex, all have been forgotten by GW, why? They could have raked in millions of dollars in sales if they had released those. As it stands now, to play those critical parts of competitive tyranid lists, you have to either make your own, or buy from a third party. And as capitalism works, if you don't make something that someone needs and someone else does, guess where the money goes?

Final edit here:
And I say this as a player who has never bought from Chapterhouse or any of the other companies that make sub products that go on GW models (except for Forgeworld and pig iron heads for some of my guard) I've been tempted a few times to be sure, but the look of the models don't go quite far enough for me to shell out money. The stormraven conversion kit from Chapterhouse is very tempting and I have had my card out a few times only to find out they were out of stock. But to even use that kit, you have to buy a much more expensive model from GW which puts money in both companies pockets.

Agamemnon2 wrote:From my own observations, it's because Chapterhouse, Maxmini, Kromlech et al are seen as morally repugnant parasites. Added to that the opinion that space marine shoulder pads are the lowest, least inventive form of third-party addons, and the judgement that Chapterhouse's sculpting quality is subpar in the eyes of many of its detractors, and the reactions we've seen publicly exhibited become explicable and inevitable.

I think you are lumping too much together there Agememnon2, though I do agree with what you are saying. It is only CHS at the end of the day that has pushed GW into the action (reasons/explanations whatever-the action is happening for good or for bad), and the other manufacturers are playing it smart and coming up with great sculpts that can be used alongside GW ip without copying it so directly (and poorly). Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I don't particularly like the Storm Raven either, but that doesn't give a third party the right to do what (alegedly) CHS has. I've spent a fair amount on Maxmini and have a few Kromlech bits hanging around, but thats for me and each to their own.

Kroothawk wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:So where's the actual evidence for any of this then? Before getting any more excited.

What evidence do you usually expect of a rumour, esp. of one on an internal policy change?

We have:
A source that has been spot on before.
A recent release fitting exactly the pattern.
An expected Tyranid second wave that hasn't materialized yet.
An official hint of a new Tyranid monster with WD rules, when half the existing units of the Codex don't have a model.
Plus our knowledge of GW higher management mentality and GW lawyer competence

All this makes sense to me (that is that GW is thinking that way, not that GW's thinking fits reality ).

So, in short, there is absolutely no proof?

Considering Chapterhouse's last post, I really see this as a non-issue dreamt up by someone attempting to link half a dozen things together.

And Kroothawk, I'm genuinely surprised at how OTT you've been on this one. You're usually relatively impartial and logical, here you just seem to have gone after this story with a ridiculous amount of zeal for the amount of proof shown, almost as if you want to believe it. I must admit, your news reporting quality has just dropped a notch slightly in my eyes.....

plastictrees wrote:So were meant to believe that GW, who is constantly berated for being incapable of leveraging new media for marketing purposes, has now deployed some sort of guerrilla smear campaign against Chapterhouse.

I'm impressed that Dakka is capable of making Chapterhouse the victim in any given scenario. You're not just suggesting that this is conjecture, but that GW is maliciously attacking the poor little bitz manufacturer through rumour. Brilliant.

Hiring 2-3 people to post rumors like this is a "guerilla smear campaign" that is very difficult to execute.

Buzzsaw wrote:I realize this is mererly a paraphrasing of another poster's semi-inebriated reportage, but... taken at face value, this suggests an almost pathological paranoia at GW, to say nothing of an almost insulting evaluation of the competence of GW's attorneys.

Well, I guess that is an approproate description. Keeping your new releases secret, hunting down any marketing attempt, keeping their designer staff from talking about their projects. There actually IS an atmosphere of fear and witch hunting within GW, impacting the productivity and sales of the company.

Chapterhouse wrote:Curiously enough the only confirmed sources for this information is myself, our Attorneys and GWs Attorneys.

With all due respect, I don't think that GW discusses and shares their internal strategy plans with Chapterhouse.

Agamemnon2 wrote:From my own observations, it's because Chapterhouse, Maxmini, Kromlech et al are seen as morally repugnant parasites. Added to that the opinion that space marine shoulder pads are the lowest, least inventive form of third-party addons, and the judgement that Chapterhouse's sculpting quality is subpar in the eyes of many of its detractors, and the reactions we've seen publicly exhibited become explicable and inevitable.

1.) Flaming and trolling is NOT inevitable.
2.) You forgot to mention that GW is seen as a morally repugnant parasite of Tolkien, Heinlein, Star Wars, Alien, Terminator, ...

Ketara wrote:I must admit, your news reporting quality has just dropped a notch slightly in my eyes.....

I report news AND rumours. Proven rumours are not rumours anymore. This is currently a rumour, as had been explicitely stated several times. The announced Tyranid WD release will reveal a bit more, as people are waiting for models of existing units, not new units. But don't expect official statements to internal strategies from GW, so rumours is all we have. If that is not enough for you, so be it.

Actually it is very easy and has been done often, though normally the rumouring is positive.

I'm not saying that GW's evil minions are at work. I think the whole thing has been blown up out of all proportion by people on the internet.

Kilkrazy wrote:Actually it is very easy and has been done often, though normally the rumouring is positive.

I'm not saying that GW's evil minions are at work. I think the whole thing has been blown up out of all proportion by people on the internet.

Yeah, I was sarcastically agreeing with his assessment that it's just too complicated to enact.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

biccat wrote:

plastictrees wrote:How would Chapterhouse going under prevent anyone from receiving good quality kits?

Tru-scale stormraven kit. Wheeled IG conversion kits. Shoulder Pads. Storm Shields. Vehicle upgrade kits.

A number of products that GW doesn't produce would become unavailable.

But none of them are good quality, is the point I believe was being made.

Which may be his opinion, but is not necessarily fact. Since CH is apparently making enough sales to stay in business, I think plenty of people appreciate their sculpting quality.

Like I said, the same arguments some GW fanboy made upthread about CH could just as easily be made about Games Workshop.

Aha.

We need a Sarcasm Orkmoticon.

Quick someone do a sarcasm orkimoticon before CH gets in there with their version and prevent Dakka releasing their own.

Kilkrazy wrote:Aha.
We need a Sarcasm Orkmoticon.

Was that sarcasm? Hard to detect without an emoticon

Agamemnon2 wrote:From my own observations, it's because Chapterhouse, Maxmini, Kromlech et al are seen as morally repugnant parasites. Added to that the opinion that space marine shoulder pads are the lowest, least inventive form of third-party addons, and the judgement that Chapterhouse's sculpting quality is subpar in the eyes of many of its detractors, and the reactions we've seen publicly exhibited become explicable and inevitable.

Something is only a parasite if is harms its host. Does ChapterHouse harm GW? I don't see how. Their sales must be pretty low, nothing compared to the mighty Workshop and if anything there's a very good argument that people are encouraged to by GW because of aftermarket parts. Anyone who bought the stormraven expansion kit has to have bought a stormraven. How does that hurt GW? Surely it can only encourage a few more people to buy a stormraven because they can improve the model.

The way some go on, it's as if CH are stealing the food out of the mouths of GW. Hardly, that assumes the these small companies deny GW money in sales (which is interesting as the vast majority are add-on kits) and don't encourage anyone to buy more GW stuff to make use of additional conversion parts.

Gitsplitta wrote:Actually, I've long been a critic of GW's propensity to provide rules without an accompanying figure... so if this is an off-shoot of the legal battle... I'm all for it!

A question?
Has anyone sued GW for their Golden Demon rules? I only ask in relation to this thread. If someone wanted to do a Golden Demon entry with a kit that has not yet been released by GW, where is the harm? or is it that by allowing such a thing they would be cutting their own 'legs' out from under them.

For that matter, what of greenstuff? GW sells the stuff on its website (last I checked), couldn't that be taken as approval of sculpting things that there is no model or bit for currently?

They could lessen the impact of this stuff by not including 'What You See Is What You Get' in 6th/9th

I find it to be a very sad reflection on us as a community to have so many people absolutely slamming another person/companies work. I see a vocal few on here slamming CHS for bad quality. I don't however see any of those people trying to do impartial product reviews, I suspect they have not purchased the product(s) they are critiquing and have not actually seen one up close in person. When someone talks about how gaky a sculpt of model is I generally ignore them, when someone says they bought a unit and did not like it because the style/scale/whatever does not meet their needs or expectations then I tend to take notice.

Most people posting on here are basing their opinions on a photo or 2 from the company selling the product. Now as a company that sells to us internet buyers they all need to present the product in a better manner more detailed photos, good shots of the unit incorporated into a squad, and they should be painted to an above average standard.

Since 1984 I have purchased a lot of models from a boatload of different companies, my wife worked for Reaper, and I enjoy casting at home in white metal and resin. So when I say that I have been very happy with most of my purchases from CHS, understand that when I comment on the products I have purchased I try to give an accurate review of the product and often the experience with the selling company.

Remember when you purchase from these small companies you are supporting our hobby, most of the sculptors are community members, the company owners are community members.
Attacking these people does not help advance our hobby, offering well thought out criticism and suggestions does help us all.

Couple things:

First, its total rumor with a drunk at a bar. I mean, really. Second, there's no way GW would run an internet astroturf campaign on this- they ignore the internet to promote their product and discussions, they're not going to turn to it to run a negative campaing against CH. Last, I dont believe it because they already producted a thunderwolf model i a special character. I think its like others have mentioned- they're not producing the model becuass people have bought them from other companies and they dont think they will make the money back.

If you call chapterhouse or any of the other third party companies "parasites" then you are really calling humanity itself parasites. In the entire history of mankind when a DEMAND for something arises there is always someone who supplies it.

Again, GW didn't supply players with specific models/options within a reasonable time period therefore there is a demand for such. Really it was also predetermined that an entity such as chapterhouse would fill such demands since we the players desired the models. I haven't even bought anything from Chapterhouse, but they're just acting in accordance with how human societies work

GW needs to up their game if they dont want other companies filling the legitimate demands of their players. In the words of a very wise internet scholar...

Too bad, so sad

I just wanted to point out that when an Englishman says he is chatting to a colleague or a friend over a pint that doesn't mean they are raging drunk.

I know people in the US have different opinions about drinking, but here in the UK it is quite normal to have a pint at lunch whilst at work and have a chat without the need to get beslubbering drunk.

So when I say I was chatting to an ex-colleague over a pint I don't mean we were falling off our stools hanging onto the bar, it was a quick lunchtime chat in a pub, which to be honest is where most people in the UK will be when they get an hour off work.

Therefore the information I was given may indeed be spurious or conspiritorial (although knowing them well I doubt that), or may have just been someone blowing off steam, but it certainly wasn't the ramblings of a mad drunk.

I hope the above comes across without sounding stroppy or offensive, it's just that more than once I have been called a drunk, which may well be true but wasn't on this occassion. And let's face it, 90% of us Brits are probably drunks in the eyes of our American friends.