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Draigo wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

sudojoe wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:Why not make a Chaos GK army while you're at it?

Cotez and alot of demon hosts..... yes.... backed up by a bunch of space monkies. No GK in the list, still legal and it's essentially chaos+xenos!

You can also take Grey Knights if you decorate the bases with dead Sororitas. People will understand

You guys are really suprised by that? Really? The inquisition burns worlds if they cant contain it. lol That to me wasn't all that shocking. GK are considered last resort before terminatus.

Murdering loyal sisters BEFORE attacking the daemon is just nonsense. Bathing in their blood takes it too far.

Miriael Sabathiel is the only sister who has ever fallen to chaos. This would mean they are actually more resistant to chaos temptation than astartes.

Don't argue with Draigo about inconsistencies in the GK Codex, he will tatoo your heart

You can actually make a case for the 'killing sisters in the GK codex' bit, because they do emphasize the hell out of that whole 'blood and sacrifice of peoples lives for the good of the Imperium and Emperor'. There's the routine sacrifices of psykers. There's all the death cults (which are borderline sanctioned by the Ecclesiarchy and even used when they need assassins.) The Frateris militia is basically one whole excuse to get large numbers of people to kill themselves for the Imperial Creed.

Of course, that would require the entire passage to have been written differently rather than the way it was, and so it comes off as bizarre as the Ben Counter Short Story Sacrifice (where they forge GK armour from the corpses of psykers on the Black ships, and they sanctify bolt rounds used to kill the GK's enemies in the sacrificed blood of the innocent.)

Connor MacLeod wrote:You can actually make a case for the 'killing sisters in the GK codex' bit, because they do emphasize the hell out of that whole 'blood and sacrifice of peoples lives for the good of the Imperium and Emperor'. There's the routine sacrifices of psykers. There's all the death cults (which are borderline sanctioned by the Ecclesiarchy and even used when they need assassins.) The Frateris militia is basically one whole excuse to get large numbers of people to kill themselves for the Imperial Creed.

Of course, that would require the entire passage to have been written differently rather than the way it was, and so it comes off as bizarre as the Ben Counter Short Story Sacrifice (where they forge GK armour from the corpses of psykers on the Black ships, and they sanctify bolt rounds used to kill the GK's enemies in the sacrificed blood of the innocent.)

...murdering a mission of loyal sisters BEFORE the battle makes no sense, especially as they would have to fight the sisters, and risk losses on the GK side. Plus, then they have sisters who cannot fight alongside them. Plus, needing to do this implies that without it, the GK would be very much susceptible to corruption

After the battle is logical enough, for various reasons, but before? All they did was prove GKs aren't smart.

The GKs could be egotistical glory-hogs. I wouldn't be surprised if they killed the sisters to save the glory and honor for themselves.

Kroothawk wrote:Don't argue with Draigo about inconsistencies in the GK Codex, he will tatoo your heart

Nah I give up argueing anymore. People all gave how they think stuff should be. I for one liked the old codex better but nothing I can do there. They changed it so eh. I just didnt think the extreme inquisition behavior was as odd as say the art collecting necron. lol Definately no more odd then daemonhosts and daemon weapons with em. lol

Would be cool but unless the Tau enter the warp its never going to happen.
One of my mates painted a battle suit as chaos Tau, it didn't
look great

im2randomghgh wrote:
...murdering a mission of loyal sisters BEFORE the battle makes no sense, especially as they would have to fight the sisters, and risk losses on the GK side. Plus, then they have sisters who cannot fight alongside them. Plus, needing to do this implies that without it, the GK would be very much susceptible to corruption

After the battle is logical enough, for various reasons, but before? All they did was prove GKs aren't smart.

It proved that the Grey Knights are not immune to Psychic powers. The Bloodtide could have effected them; that's why they used the blood of the Sisters' in a ritual for protection.

That's actually very smart. If the Grey Knights were exploding in showers of gore, or even worse, turning against their comrades, the loss would have been greater, especially since the Sisters of Battle would likely have been executed anyway.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
...murdering a mission of loyal sisters BEFORE the battle makes no sense, especially as they would have to fight the sisters, and risk losses on the GK side. Plus, then they have sisters who cannot fight alongside them. Plus, needing to do this implies that without it, the GK would be very much susceptible to corruption

After the battle is logical enough, for various reasons, but before? All they did was prove GKs aren't smart.

It proved that the Grey Knights are not immune to Psychic powers. The Bloodtide could have effected them; that's why they used the blood of the Sisters' in a ritual for protection.

That's actually very smart. If the Grey Knights were exploding in showers of gore, or even worse, turning against their comrades, the loss would have been greater, especially since the Sisters of Battle would likely have been executed anyway.

...Which proves that only esoteric rituals keep them from falling to chaos, rather than being special in any way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RAVEN 97 wrote:Would be cool but unless the Tau enter the warp its never going to happen.
One of my mates painted a battle suit as chaos Tau, it didn't
look great

They DO travel in the warp...just more like sailboats compared to the other factions submarines.

Kroothawk wrote:Don't argue with Draigo about inconsistencies in the GK Codex, he will tatoo your heart

+ 10 to this

im2randomghgh wrote:...Which proves that only esoteric rituals keep them from falling to chaos, rather than being special in any way.

No it doesn't. It prevented them from being affected by the Bloodtide, which is completely different to falling to Chaos. Or do you think everyone who turned mad decided to bow before the Ruinous Powers? At the least it was mind-control of some sort (or possibly killing the person and taking over the body).

The blood may have just protected them from exploding in showers of gore, or it may have protected them from the maddening affects as well. Either way, it does not demonstrate that they are capable of falling to Chaos.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:...Which proves that only esoteric rituals keep them from falling to chaos, rather than being special in any way.

No it doesn't. It prevented them from being affected by the Bloodtide, which is completely different to falling to Chaos. Or do you think everyone who turned mad decided to bow before the Ruinous Powers? At the least it was mind-control of some sort (or possibly killing the person and taking over the body).

The blood may have just protected them from exploding in showers of gore, or it may have protected them from the maddening affects as well. Either way, it does not demonstrate that they are capable of falling to Chaos.

The part I bolded is possession, which most definately means "susceptible to chaos"

im2randomghgh wrote:The part I bolded is possession, which most definately means "susceptible to chaos"

No it's not. It's using a body as a puppet through Psychic means, would doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Chaos. Regardless, it was just a suggestion, and not necessarily what was intended.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:The part I bolded is possession, which most definately means "susceptible to chaos"

No it's not. It's using a body as a puppet through Psychic means, would doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Chaos. Regardless, it was just a suggestion, and not necessarily what was intended.

That's how possession works since the daemon doesn't stick his hand up their butt and work em like a puppet..

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:The part I bolded is possession, which most definately means "susceptible to chaos"

No it's not. It's using a body as a puppet through Psychic means, would doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Chaos. Regardless, it was just a suggestion, and not necessarily what was intended.

It shows they need extra protection against the influence of heretics=not infallible.

Also, Alaric very nearly fell to chaos as well.

Draigo wrote:
That's how possession works since the daemon doesn't stick his hand up their butt and work em like a puppet..

I'd disagree since when a Daemon possesses someone it appears that that person is usually still alive and conscious, not dead. Maybe that's not a possibility then. Maybe the Grey Knights weren't worried about the Bloodtide controlling them, but just the whole killing thing.

im2randomghgh wrote:It shows they need extra protection against the influence of heretics=not infallible.

No it doesn't, it means they needed protection against a specific type of Psychic power. Just because it came from a Daemon doesn't mean that they are immune to its Psychic power.

Also, Alaric very nearly fell to chaos as well.

I'd argue that it's theoretically possible for a Grey Knight to fall to Chaos. They do, after all, have free will. They just won't.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Draigo wrote:
That's how possession works since the daemon doesn't stick his hand up their butt and work em like a puppet..

I'd disagree since when a Daemon possesses someone it appears that that person is usually still alive and conscious, not dead. Maybe that's not a possibility then. Maybe the Grey Knights weren't worried about the Bloodtide controlling them, but just the whole killing thing.

Possession is the daemon replacing the host's soul with its own, but the host isn't deleted, just minimized, if I can treat them like a computer. Mind control isn't the same, but it's just as big of a danger. If the Last Chancers novels are accurate, the host can fight against possession, and exposure to a null will force the daemon back into the Warp after a while, leaving the host in control briefly. I don't think that explained anything, actually...

im2randomghgh wrote:It shows they need extra protection against the influence of heretics=not infallible.

No it doesn't, it means they needed protection against a specific type of Psychic power. Just because it came from a Daemon doesn't mean that they are immune to its Psychic power.

Also, Alaric very nearly fell to chaos as well.

I'd argue that it's theoretically possible for a Grey Knight to fall to Chaos. They do, after all, have free will. They just won't.

Durza wrote:
Possession is the daemon replacing the host's soul with its own, but the host isn't deleted, just minimized, if I can treat them like a computer. Mind control isn't the same, but it's just as big of a danger. If the Last Chancers novels are accurate, the host can fight against possession, and exposure to a null will force the daemon back into the Warp after a while, leaving the host in control briefly. I don't think that explained anything, actually...

That's what I thought. It's different from just controlling a body. A host fighting against possession does seem reasonable.

That's like arguing that free will and destiny both exist.

I could argue that, but I don't believe in destiny (but really, just because your destined to do something doesn't mean you won't do it of your own free will. You'll still choose to do it yourself, it's just that your action was essentially predictable).

A Grey Knight has control of himself. He can choose to serve Chaos if he wants to. He will not ever want to though; he's been indoctrinated into believing that it is the incarnation of evil and something that would use and eventually destroy him. He knows that and he has seen it, so why would he fall to Chaos when it goes against everything he has ever believed in? When he knows the terrible truth of the consequences of serving such powers that few of those who do serve Chaos would know?

So a Grey Knight could theoretically come close to falling. But he will never take the plunge - they are too mentally focussed to do that. Although from what I've heard, Alaric doesn't completely work with the current background, but since I haven't read the books I can't pass judgement on it.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Durza wrote:
Possession is the daemon replacing the host's soul with its own, but the host isn't deleted, just minimized, if I can treat them like a computer. Mind control isn't the same, but it's just as big of a danger. If the Last Chancers novels are accurate, the host can fight against possession, and exposure to a null will force the daemon back into the Warp after a while, leaving the host in control briefly. I don't think that explained anything, actually...

That's what I thought. It's different from just controlling a body. A host fighting against possession does seem reasonable.

That's like arguing that free will and destiny both exist.

I could argue that, but I don't believe in destiny (but really, just because your destined to do something doesn't mean you won't do it of your own free will. You'll still choose to do it yourself, it's just that your action was essentially predictable).

A Grey Knight has control of himself. He can choose to serve Chaos if he wants to. He will not ever want to though; he's been indoctrinated into believing that it is the incarnation of evil and something that would use and eventually destroy him. He knows that and he has seen it, so why would he fall to Chaos when it goes against everything he has ever believed in? When he knows the terrible truth of the consequences of serving such powers that few of those who do serve Chaos would know?

So a Grey Knight could theoretically come close to falling. But he will never take the plunge - they are too mentally focussed to do that. Although from what I've heard, Alaric doesn't completely work with the current background, but since I haven't read the books I can't pass judgement on it.

If you use Alrics exp on the Daemon World in Hammer of Daemons he had moments where he lost control of his faculties due to possession. He "blackout" periods where he ripped IG members apart with his bare hands. That also described Alrics resisting the possessions overwhelming prescence in his mind without his psychic defense which was nullified by the collar of khorne. People can discredit or ignore novels, games or whatever for examples but the fact remains it shows gw will allow an author to make anything happen. Also with how he understood anything he killed there was in tribute to Khorne and eventually bought into it till the end of the story and even then left the others to be torn apart by daemons.

Am I mistaken but don't the sisters of battle willingly sacrifice themselves for the grey knights, seeing that there was no other way?

Back on topic there might be renegade tau (farsight and crew) but I doubt any would worship the chaos gods, especially when they don't even really know what a chaos god is.

ZeroSamurai wrote:Am I mistaken but don't the sisters of battle willingly sacrifice themselves for the grey knights, seeing that there was no other way?

They weren't asked, but surely they would have been enthusiastic to end as a smear of blood on a Grey Knight armour

Kroothawk wrote:

ZeroSamurai wrote:Am I mistaken but don't the sisters of battle willingly sacrifice themselves for the grey knights, seeing that there was no other way?

They weren't asked, but surely they would have been enthusiastic to end as a smear of blood on a Grey Knight armour

I know desperate times call for desperate measures but that bit of fluff is written rather coldly and as a matter of fact. I'm cuirous what sorta debate happen. Was there an actual hey this might be our only chance or was it "hey sisters we have something to show you" *lead around corner* then jump them. With just well they killed em it does sound rather khorny.

Someone should do a sisterblood red GK army.

Ovion wrote:Someone should do a sisterblood red GK army.

I'll give that a shot later

in the mean time...

Ka'jagga'nath's stasis prison was damaged and the Greater Daemon broke free, unleashing his bloodtide upon the world. As the world rips itself apart in violence and worship of Khorne, even the planets garrison of Sisters of Battle fall prey to the Bloodtide and become murderous champions of the Blood God, murdering those Battle Sisters who managed to resist the Bloodtide's effects. For eight days the orgy of violence continues as more and more Daemons pass through the Warp portals that have spawned. However in the end the Grey Knights 4th Brotherhood would arrive and manage to resist the Bloodtide by mixing the blood of the innocent with those of their own holy oils used to anoint their power armor, creating a shield against the bloodtides effects.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ka%27jagga%27nath

I always imagined this would have been the alternative for the other sisters in there

sudojoe wrote:

Ovion wrote:Someone should do a sisterblood red GK army.

I'll give that a shot later

in the mean time...

Ka'jagga'nath's stasis prison was damaged and the Greater Daemon broke free, unleashing his bloodtide upon the world. As the world rips itself apart in violence and worship of Khorne, even the planets garrison of Sisters of Battle fall prey to the Bloodtide and become murderous champions of the Blood God, murdering those Battle Sisters who managed to resist the Bloodtide's effects. For eight days the orgy of violence continues as more and more Daemons pass through the Warp portals that have spawned. However in the end the Grey Knights 4th Brotherhood would arrive and manage to resist the Bloodtide by mixing the blood of the innocent with those of their own holy oils used to anoint their power armor, creating a shield against the bloodtides effects.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ka%27jagga%27nath

I always imagined this would have been the alternative for the other sisters in there

Thats a badass pic

Prostitute themed all female army? Why hasn't anyone thought of that before?

Great image from a very talented artist:

http://studiocolrouphobia.net/

Kroothawk wrote:Prostitute themed all female army? Why hasn't anyone thought of that before?

They have.

SoB.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Prostitute themed all female army? Why hasn't anyone thought of that before?

They have.

SoB.

I don't think you can handle the rage, that will be directed against you if SoB fans find out you made that comment.

Sasori wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Prostitute themed all female army? Why hasn't anyone thought of that before?

They have.

SoB.

I don't think you can handle the rage, that will be directed against you if SoB fans find out you made that comment.

I've said worse about them before. I've been banned 2 or 3 times for it

But really, they are just armoured prostitutes with fire.