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Brother Coa wrote:
No they don't. Not even one plane in Imperium's armory matched the use and firepower of AC-130 Spectre Gunship. Imperium only have fighters and bombers. Not flying ground supporting fortresses.

Yes, they do have flying fortresses, though they don't appear at the scale most of 40k is played at for obvious reasons. The FF RPG's have numerous lighters, gunships, fighters, and describe there being thousands more designs.

ForgeWorld has aeronautica imperialis gunships that fit the bill perfectly. Just because it isn't represented in the core game does not mean it doesn't exist.

But they aren't. Orks are definitely tougher in almost every conceivable way, for example. Marines and Orks have different kinds of strengths, whereas orks are basically slabs of muscle and raw power marines have finer control over their muscles (and tend to think faster), allowing them to exert that muscle far more effectively than the average Ork would.

Melissia wrote:
Pfeh. Use a real aircraft-- go with the A10,

A-10 are awesome to
But imagine firing Vanquisher round at Ork positions from 30,000 ft. Add Heavy Bolter shells t oit and Plasma Cannon and you get some serious firepower.

Brother Coa wrote:

riplikash wrote:

The Crusader wrote:An AC-130U Spectre Gunship Should do the job.

Pretty much explains it

But...the Imperium has similar craft which are much tougher and better armed. It can take an hour to get these into the air and within firing range. The Imperium will have air superiority.

No they don't. Not even one plane in Imperium's armory matched the use and firepower of AC-130 Spectre Gunship. Imperium only have fighters and bombers. Not flying ground supporting fortresses.
"The Imperium will have air superiority." - similar thing was told to Guardsman on Taros, oh well....

Thunderhawks and Marauder Destroyers. Next!

Oh, also, I think you'll find that Autocannons, Lascannons and, God forbid, FRIGGIN' TURBOLASER DESTRUCTORS are MORE than a match for the firepower of a Spectre.

riplikash wrote:
Yes, they do have flying fortresses, though they don't appear at the scale most of 40k is played at for obvious reasons. The FF RPG's have numerous lighters, gunships, fighters, and describe there being thousands more designs.

ForgeWorld has aeronautica imperialis gunships that fit the bill perfectly. Just because it isn't represented in the core game does not mean it doesn't exist.

Never saw or heard about one. I thought that they only have fighters, bombardiers, drop ships and star ships. Not any kind of craft that is similar to role of Spectre.

An A-10 can carry 18 laserguided bombs and something like a couple of thousand rounds for the GAU-8. the flip side is A. some one needs todesignate the SM. B. The Spectre can stay on station longer and out-ranges the A-10 with the 105mm. Either way, I'd cack my pants if I was on the recieving end of either of them

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Thunderhawks and Marauder Destroyers. Next!

Oh, also, I think you'll find that Autocannons, Lascannons and, God forbid, FRIGGIN' TURBOLASER DESTRUCTORS are MORE than a match for the firepower of a Spectre.

Drop ship and Heavy Bombarder, not a Gunship. Next!
The point of Spectre that it can circle over an area and fire heavy cannons on enemy more accurately them field artillery. And to provide heavy support for troops on the ground.
I don't know any kind of Imperial craft that can do that, as they all preform like a bombers. Excluding Valcury who has the role of Apache.

Anyway I thought this was what weapons could kill a single Marine without support. otherwise this will turn into "that" thread...

Brother Coa wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Thunderhawks and Marauder Destroyers. Next!

Oh, also, I think you'll find that Autocannons, Lascannons and, God forbid, FRIGGIN' TURBOLASER DESTRUCTORS are MORE than a match for the firepower of a Spectre.

Drop ship and Heavy Bombarder, not a Gunship. Next!
The point of Spectre that it can circle over an area and fire heavy cannons on enemy more accurately them field artillery. And to provide heavy support for troops on the ground.
I don't know any kind of Imperial craft that can do that, as they all preform like a bombers. Excluding Valcury who has the role of Apache.

You do realize that Thunderhawks are called Thunderhawk Gunships, yes? The Titan-class it carries on it's back sure as hell isn't there for show, and since it's a VTOL vehicle it could easily double as a ground support vehicle.

There's also the Vultures, but they're also more like Apache Gunships.

Brother Coa wrote:

Melissia wrote:
Pfeh. Use a real aircraft-- go with the A10,

A-10 are awesome to
But imagine firing Vanquisher round at Ork positions from 30,000 ft. Add Heavy Bolter shells t oit and Plasma Cannon and you get some serious firepower.

Imagine firing a vulcan mega-bolter at orks positions from the same position.

That's my point.

An AC-130 Gun ship may be a little over kill but should do the job.

Beany10,

There is no such thing as overkill. Its simply insurance that its dead

Like me in "Dead Space". Shoot a Necromorph and then step on it. Just in case he don't wake up again.

Brother Coa wrote:That's my point.

The A-10's primary armament is more powerful.

The main reason they use AC130s is because it's cheaper to refit an old plane than to make new ones (Also because the air force for some reason has a serious hate-on for the A-10 despite the fact that no aircraft has yet to be designed that can surpass it at its job. Its proposed replacements fail time and time again no matter how much the air force hates that craft).

Dead Space is what has fuelled my paranoia to make sure everything is dead. I have a "the Bad Lieutenant" thing going:
Kill him again.
What? Why?
His Soul is still dancing!

It also educated me on the "Dead Man's Click". Its called that for a reason

Melissia wrote:The A-10's primary armament is more powerful.

The main reason they use AC130s is because it's cheaper to refit an old plane than to make new ones (Also because the air force for some reason has a serious hate-on for the A-10 despite the fact that no aircraft has yet to be designed that can surpass it at its job. Its proposed replacements fail time and time again no matter how much the air force hates that craft).

I to love A-10, since I saw him first time in C&C: Generals. There is something when he fires that cannon, you see all dead and after that you hear rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

DAKKA! DAKKA! DAKKA!...I'm sure a hail of automatic gunfire would bring down a marine if the guns in question were military grade weapons. Besides, if Cadian Guardsmen can match Chaos Marines in hand to hand (provided they outnumber them, we can just swamp them!

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:With helmet on so we cannot see his screaming bald head....A laser guided artillery smart munition (120mm mortar or such, have hit moving vehicles with one ) 1-2km range for spotter in good terrain, and since marines dont really like to hide or use camo...

Without helmet... .50 cal SLAP (Saboted Light Armor Penetrator ) or even better .50, Armor-Piercing-Explosive-Incendiary. shot in his bald head, from a good distance.

But hey these are Astartes after all , they would likely catch the bullet between his teeth and spit it back into chuck norris's ugly mug, then steal chucks truck and go to town for some beer and nudy mags.

Hi My Name is Captain Kavaana Shrike Its time we had a conversation about us not 'hiding' or striking from the shadows. You know not all of us are like the space wolves you know.
By the way the Entire Codex Astrates chapters want to have a word with you.

....
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According to the codex. Marines wear camo according to campagins. They paint their armor accordingly. Examples Babab War, Raptors Legion, Mentors, Mantis Warriors, helk even the space marines send in their scouts.

BTW you guys do realize that space marines during the great crusade fought during nuclear blasts right? And these nukes are several hundred times stronger than ours? Right?

Yes I do think a .50 cal weapon and above will kill them. In the fluff some space marines just don't die!

Plus once you kill one battle brother oh well. Land Raiders, Space marine company comes in mops up the Marines.

Necroshea wrote:So I'd say one of those fancy .50 berettas that COD fanboys think they can walk around and fire from the hip would do the job.

the .50s are IMI Desert Eagles, not Berettas. And that round is only slightly bigger than a .45 pistol's.

http://imageshack.us/m/690/2258/300221.jpg

I figure if you treat a Space Marine like a light armored vehicle, you've got it about right. They are going to shrug most small arms unless they get hit in an unprotected joint, but even then that armor is probably at least somewhat resistant. A tank round is probably going to kill them most of the time, hence the stat line of the Battle Cannon. Lesser weaponry like most assault rifles, analogous to autoguns, probably not. Even .50 rifles are only going to be penetrating vulnerable areas, but getting deflected off of the chest or shoulder plating.

Really, there's nothing I've seen to indicate a Space Marine could endure a few shots from a .50 Cal Machine Gun. I've seen these things in action in the Israeli Army and they're penetrate anything short of a APC., and they'll shred up a vehicle with as much armor as your standard Humvee. Anything above the level of firepower of a M2 or Dashka would do the job against a Marine. People in this thread are vastly overestimating Marine Power Armor/Endurance.

As for AC-130 Imperial equivalents, the Marauder Destroyer is probably the closest thing they have to it and indeed surpasses the AC-130 in firepower. x6 Autocannons, x2 Assault Cannons, x2 Heavy Bolters, x8 Hellstrike Missiles. That's far greater than the firepower an AC-130 can lay down, though my guess is the Marauder-Destroyer can't rotate around the battlefield as accuracy or cleanly.

The analogy to a modern LAV has been made for the toughness of Power Armor, which is as tough or tougher than an APC, so there you go. The Ma Deuce could punch a hole in the soft armor, but probably not the ceramite plating. Considering both autocannons and heavy stubbers exist in the game which are analogous to heavy machineguns, and they only have AP4, and we know weapons are more powerful in the game than in the fluff (unless a weak author who hasn't given much thought to his novel needs Space Marines to be cheaply and conveniently fragile)...

BeRzErKeR wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Also, any weapon really can harm a SM. If you pull off a strong hit in the armour joins, they will feel it.

Uh. . . no.
.

Uh... yes.

SM Power Armor is being over estimated a lot. SM's are killed by autoguns. Autoguns fire 5.56mm Brass Bullets (Source: Siege of Vraks). This is WEAKER then most firearms. And the 5.56mm Brass Bullets penetrated the space marines chest plate with relative ease. No offense, but your local law enforcement agencies are very capable of bringing down a Space Marine. SM power lies in their tactics, not their armor and weapons.

@Harriticus It really depends on the calibers of those weapons. AC-130 loadouts:

AC-130A Project Gunship II
4× 7.62 mm GAU-2/A miniguns
4× 20 mm (0.787 in) M61 Vulcan 6-barreled Gatling cannon

AC-130A Surprise Package, Pave Pronto, AC-130E Pave Spectre
2× 7.62 mm GAU-2/A miniguns
2× 20 mm M61 Vulcan cannon
2× 40 mm (1.58 in) L/60 Bofors cannon

AC-130E Pave Aegis
2× 20 mm M61 Vulcan cannon
1× 40 mm (1.58 in) L/60 Bofors cannon
1× 105 mm (4.13 in) M102 howitzer

AC-130H Spectre
(Prior to c. 2000)
2× 20 mm M61 Vulcan cannon
1× 40 mm (1.58 in) L/60 Bofors cannon
1× 105 mm (4.13 in) M102 howitzer
(Current Armament)
1× 40 mm (1.58 in) L/60 Bofors cannon
1× 105 mm (4.13 in) M102 howitzer

AC-130U Spooky II
1× General Dynamics 25 mm (0.984 in) GAU-12/U Equalizer 5-barreled gatling cannon
1× 40 mm (1.58 in) L/60 Bofors cannon
1× 105 mm (4.13 in) M102 howitzer

unless Autocannons are greater than 40mm cannons, an AC-130 would be at the very least on par with a Marauder Destroyer.

Have enough soldiers fire 30 caliber machine guns at him for a while and he'll fall. That, or 50 cals, which we mount on all sorts of things, so it isn't unreasonable that we'd have some serious fire power against him.

Our military would have a ball being able to fire large volumes into a single target Who wouldn't, as long as he isn't charging towards you, or withing bolter range. I have my doubts his ammunition would last very long.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Golden Sabre wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Also, any weapon really can harm a SM. If you pull off a strong hit in the armour joins, they will feel it.

Uh. . . no.
.

Uh... yes.

SM Power Armor is being over estimated a lot. SM's are killed by autoguns. Autoguns fire 5.56mm Brass Bullets (Source: Siege of Vraks). This is WEAKER then most firearms. And the 5.56mm Brass Bullets penetrated the space marines chest plate with relative ease. No offense, but your local law enforcement agencies are very capable of bringing down a Space Marine. SM power lies in their tactics, not their armor and weapons.

Autoguns shoot M16 rounds? I was expecting 7.62, at least.

Wonder what autocannons fire Maybe the same, with a higher ROF?

Golden Sabre wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Also, any weapon really can harm a SM. If you pull off a strong hit in the armour joins, they will feel it.

Uh. . . no.
.

Uh... yes.

SM Power Armor is being over estimated a lot. SM's are killed by autoguns. Autoguns fire 5.56mm Brass Bullets (Source: Siege of Vraks). This is WEAKER then most firearms. And the 5.56mm Brass Bullets penetrated the space marines chest plate with relative ease. No offense, but your local law enforcement agencies are very capable of bringing down a Space Marine. SM power lies in their tactics, not their armor and weapons.

That is sad. Just sad. If that's a 3+ armor save, then I could punch a Gaurdian into submission. And in a month I would be able to take on a Space Marine (when I have enough money for an AR).

That really puts into perspective the materials of the 40k universe. Either that or the writer was a moron.

a phased plasma rifle in the 40 mgw range, opps there goes my security clearence,

Samus_aran115 wrote:Have enough soldiers fire 30 caliber machine guns at him for a while and he'll fall. That, or 50 cals, which we mount on all sorts of things, so it isn't unreasonable that we'd have some serious fire power against him.

Our military would have a ball being able to fire large volumes into a single target Who wouldn't, as long as he isn't charging towards you, or withing bolter range. I have my doubts his ammunition would last very long.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Golden Sabre wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Also, any weapon really can harm a SM. If you pull off a strong hit in the armour joins, they will feel it.

Uh. . . no.
.

Uh... yes.

SM Power Armor is being over estimated a lot. SM's are killed by autoguns. Autoguns fire 5.56mm Brass Bullets (Source: Siege of Vraks). This is WEAKER then most firearms. And the 5.56mm Brass Bullets penetrated the space marines chest plate with relative ease. No offense, but your local law enforcement agencies are very capable of bringing down a Space Marine. SM power lies in their tactics, not their armor and weapons.

Autoguns shoot M16 rounds? I was expecting 7.62, at least.

Wonder what autocannons fire Maybe the same, with a higher ROF?

I was expecting that autocannons fired something like 60mm rounds or something, but now I really doubt they fire anything higher than 20mm.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Autoguns shoot M16 rounds? I was expecting 7.62, at least.

Wonder what autocannons fire Maybe the same, with a higher ROF?

I honestly have no clue what autocannons fire, although they are often compared to the main gun of your abrams tank.

And as for M16 rounds, not only are they 5.56mm, but the bullets are made out of brass. Brass!
I wish GW would retcon a lot of the really stupid deaths that they put marines through. I mean, if your going to have them die from any bullet, at least make an armor penetrating explosive incendiary or something...

I would think that simple torrent of fire would do the trick. A marine sans armor should be able to survive a few SAW rounds, but an entire belt's worth would put paid to him. Ma Deuce should be able to grease one given enough rounds or the right kind of ammo once he's armored up, and I think 25mm rounds should also do pretty well also.