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Any marine fighting us here on old modern Earth (Terra), would lay his weapons down and immediatly and completely surrender, for somewhere amongst our teeming populace resides the once and future Emperor from which they all descend, and any stray bolt or otherwise marine driven aggresion could potentially endanger the future monarch and make them all cease to exist.

So we dont even need to kill one of the bloody Astartes, just find jumbo size cots for them.

McNinja wrote:@Harriticus It really depends on the calibers of those weapons. AC-130 loadouts:

AC-130A Project Gunship II
4× 7.62 mm GAU-2/A miniguns
4× 20 mm (0.787 in) M61 Vulcan 6-barreled Gatling cannon

AC-130A Surprise Package, Pave Pronto, AC-130E Pave Spectre
2× 7.62 mm GAU-2/A miniguns
2× 20 mm M61 Vulcan cannon
2× 40 mm (1.58 in) L/60 Bofors cannon

AC-130E Pave Aegis
2× 20 mm M61 Vulcan cannon
1× 40 mm (1.58 in) L/60 Bofors cannon
1× 105 mm (4.13 in) M102 howitzer

AC-130H Spectre
(Prior to c. 2000)
2× 20 mm M61 Vulcan cannon
1× 40 mm (1.58 in) L/60 Bofors cannon
1× 105 mm (4.13 in) M102 howitzer
(Current Armament)
1× 40 mm (1.58 in) L/60 Bofors cannon
1× 105 mm (4.13 in) M102 howitzer

AC-130U Spooky II
1× General Dynamics 25 mm (0.984 in) GAU-12/U Equalizer 5-barreled gatling cannon
1× 40 mm (1.58 in) L/60 Bofors cannon
1× 105 mm (4.13 in) M102 howitzer

unless Autocannons are greater than 40mm cannons, an AC-130 would be at the very least on par with a Marauder Destroyer.

Well you have more weapons stations on a Marauder Destroyer, plus things Missile Pylons (which an AC-130 doesn't have any tremendously upgrades firepower).

As for autocannons, they are certainly higher then 40mm. They seem roughly analogous to something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/57_mm_AZP_S-60. My guess is anywhere between 57mm and 76mm for caliber. Your basic Boltgun is .76 Cal so even basic weapons in the world of 40k pack a big slug.

Well, considering that the orks have a change at gunning down a space marine in shooting, I would say that a .44 magnum could at least injure a SM at close range.

Denel NTW-20
XM-109
The Beowulf .50 cal upper receiver variant for the M4
XM25

Those could probably do it with relative ease, I wouldn't be surprised if an AP 7.62mm popped them.

And a bullet proof bones? Just have to get one round to penetrate the gaps in the ribcage and let it bounce around inside of him tearing up all his vital organs, have fun with that.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:Any marine fighting us here on old modern Earth (Terra), would lay his weapons down and immediatly and completely surrender, for somewhere amongst our teeming populace resides the once and future Emperor from which they all descend, and any stray bolt or otherwise marine driven aggresion could potentially endanger the future monarch and make them all cease to exist.

Uh...... If marines ever invade our planet that would mean one thing only - this is not Earth at all. But some random lost Human colony that we call Earth to.

a phased plasma rifle in the 40 mgw range,

Hey, just what ya see Pal!

killykavekommando wrote:Well, considering that the orks have a change at gunning down a space marine in shooting, I would say that a .44 magnum could at least injure a SM at close range.

Honestly? I would think that shootas are more like M2s than anything else in the modern arsenal.

I mean, think about it. Orks are significantly larger and tougher than humans. They also have a strong, strong tendency to carry around the biggest, loudest, shootiest weapon that they can. Furthermore, as primitive as they may seem, Meks are basically born knowing everything that most engineers go to college to learn, plus a significantly larger amount directly relating to metallurgy and weapons-making. So I'm pretty sure that a shoota is more like an HMG than any kind of human small arm. Similarly, your average slugga probably fires a very high caliber bullet with a LOT of propellant behind it.

A 30-strong mob of Orks all opening fire at once have a chance to shoot down a couple Space Marines because they're literally filling the air with long, wildly uncontrolled bursts of heavy machine-gun fire.


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Golden Sabre wrote:

Uh... yes.

SM Power Armor is being over estimated a lot. SM's are killed by autoguns. Autoguns fire 5.56mm Brass Bullets (Source: Siege of Vraks). This is WEAKER then most firearms. And the 5.56mm Brass Bullets penetrated the space marines chest plate with relative ease. No offense, but your local law enforcement agencies are very capable of bringing down a Space Marine. SM power lies in their tactics, not their armor and weapons.

Two things.

First off, THOSE particular autoguns fire 5.56mm brass bullets. That by no means proves that all, or even a majority, of them do.

Secondly; we don't really know how autoguns work, honestly. That's a small bullet, but it's perfectly possible to get the same kinetic energy from it by increasing the speed; maybe autoguns fire low-caliber but very high-velocity dum-dum rounds, for instance, so they'll punch into the target and then come apart into shrapnel inside the body.

IIRC they're described as caseless rounds, with stubber weapon being cased rounds (the eponymous "stubs").

An unarmoured marine? In theory and with some luck pretty much any modern military rifle or, if the marine is truly unlucky, even more "primitive" weapons. I know, i know, they are geneenhanced and the best thing since sliced bread but some parts of a marine's body are just as vulnerable as the same parts of a normal human being. Spinal damage will incapacitate the marine and so will a headwound ( even 150kg of pure muscle need to use their brain once in a while ).

And armoured marine is quite a bit different and will probably require something heavier to take down. Since we don't have any idea what a marine's armour is capable of ( at least in relation to modern weapons )
i can't give any answer to that question.

King Pariah wrote:Denel NTW-20
XM-109
The Beowulf .50 cal upper receiver variant for the M4
XM25

Those could probably do it with relative ease, I wouldn't be surprised if an AP 7.62mm popped them.

And a bullet proof bones? Just have to get one round to penetrate the gaps in the ribcage and let it bounce around inside of him tearing up all his vital organs, have fun with that.

There are no gaps in a SM's rib cage...

IronSnake wrote:

King Pariah wrote:Denel NTW-20
XM-109
The Beowulf .50 cal upper receiver variant for the M4
XM25

Those could probably do it with relative ease, I wouldn't be surprised if an AP 7.62mm popped them.

And a bullet proof bones? Just have to get one round to penetrate the gaps in the ribcage and let it bounce around inside of him tearing up all his vital organs, have fun with that.

There are no gaps in a SM's rib cage...

None? Then how do they manage to breath? Kinda need seperation of ribs for the ribcage to expand when inhaling. And a fused ribcage would seriously limit your upper body mobility. So suddenly Space Marines have turned into slow walking tanks with a hard time breathing. God forbid they over exert themselves.

shadowsnip wrote:but also according to the fluff 1000 marines can defeat an entire planet. So according to the fluff 1000 marines can take on all the combined military forces of our planet.

1 marine = 100,000 soldiers (lets say theres 100,000,000 soldiers)

so one marine can take on 100,000 soldiers. But then the fluff contradicts this with space marines dying to some orks who have big axes...

If that math is correct this it the first time that an American will say that he is glad the Chinese and North Koreans have just about every able bodied 20 something year old man in their military. Gonna need a lot of fodder to drop 1000 marines at that rate.

IronSnake wrote:

King Pariah wrote:Denel NTW-20
XM-109
The Beowulf .50 cal upper receiver variant for the M4
XM25

Those could probably do it with relative ease, I wouldn't be surprised if an AP 7.62mm popped them.

And a bullet proof bones? Just have to get one round to penetrate the gaps in the ribcage and let it bounce around inside of him tearing up all his vital organs, have fun with that.

There are no gaps in a SM's rib cage...

Well then, he can't breath, can't move his torso and his entire ribcage is far more rigid as a single whack will shatter the entire arangment.

Still, in theory any weapon could take down a SM. Those who say otherwise are probably Fanboys of EPIC proportions to actually argue about marines in tank armour.

Is their armor mechanically driven by a powersource or do they wear it like medevil armor? If it is mechanical and has a power source of some kind to run systems like resporatory systems then a timely placed EMP blast should do the trick.

Brother Coa wrote:Uh...... If marines ever invade our planet that would mean one thing only - this is not Earth at all. But some random lost Human colony that we call Earth to.

They could have managed to go back in time due to the Warp (or, hell, Trazyn playing merry tricks).

BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Well then, he can't breath, can't move his torso and his entire ribcage is far more rigid as a single whack will shatter the entire arangment.

Still, in theory any weapon could take down a SM. Those who say otherwise are probably Fanboys of EPIC proportions to actually argue about marines in tank armour.

Astartes have a solid stronger-than-normal ribcage and can still breathe (more efficiently than a normal human) and are very agile and tough. It's the way 40K works.

In theory yes. But we might as well try to discuss the weapons that would have a decent chance, rather than go for far-fetched scenarios.

MakersHitstheMark wrote:Is their armor mechanically driven by a powersource or do they wear it like medevil armor? If it is mechanical and has a power source of some kind to run systems like resporatory systems then a timely placed EMP blast should do the trick.

It is powered by a power source but I'm not sure how vulnerable it is to an EMP blast. They can also still move without the power source, just more slowly and with more effort.

IronSnake wrote:There are no gaps in a SM's rib cage...

If there's no gaps in the SM's ribcage, then the SM would be less agile than a human. Their ability to twist/turn their torsos, bend over, lean to the the side, their ability to take in a full breath, etc would all be inferior to humans.

Golden Sabre wrote:I honestly have no clue what autocannons fire, although they are often compared to the main gun of your abrams tank.

Not a very good comparison. They are probably closer to the 25mm gun you see on LAVs and Bradleys. The Battlecannon is probably the closest equivalent to the 120mm smoothbore on the M1 and other similar tanks.

Isn't this question answered somewhat satisfactorily in Tales of Heresy.

Specifically, Gav Thorpe's Dark Angels story where the planet the Dark Angels invade is pretty much a complete expy of modern day Earth.

It seemed quite logical to me and at one part involved a bunch of Terminators teleporting into the not-UN, and just gunning everyone down.

Compel: Black Library uathors strike me as not necessarily having the soundest grasp of modern military capabilities and tactics.

Consideing most of the time he enemies of the Space Marines make utterly stupid tactical errors in situations where if they had acted intelligently they'd have inflicted some massive damage...

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Well then, he can't breath, can't move his torso and his entire ribcage is far more rigid as a single whack will shatter the entire arangment.

Still, in theory any weapon could take down a SM. Those who say otherwise are probably Fanboys of EPIC proportions to actually argue about marines in tank armour.

Astartes have a solid stronger-than-normal ribcage and can still breathe (more efficiently than a normal human) and are very agile and tough. It's the way 40K works.

In theory yes. But we might as well try to discuss the weapons that would have a decent chance, rather than go for far-fetched scenarios.

Just because they are Space Marines does not change the way that anatomy works. Anything with a fused set of bones will be slower, but will have increased protection. For example, the Tortoise.



Look at this picture. There are clearly gaps in his ribcage. I'm not saying that this is proof, but 40K has to hold onto some laws of space and time to make players want to play.

As for being far-fetched, this entire thread is. We will never meet true Space Marines, and anything can happen. Even a well placed shot from a handgun could potentially incapacitate a Marine should it breach the armour.

Anything that blows up could probably take one out. Hellfires, RPG-7, griffins, javelins...

There are no gaps in a SM's rib cage...

Space Marine ribs grow double-wide, then overlap.

Like a window shade.

There is space between the ribs, but those spaces are tiny and face downward not forward.

I imagine PA is about as effective as an infantry version of CHOBHAM albeit a slightly less effective version of it.

And balls to your Smooth-bore 120mm, Try a Rifled one like the Challenger 2

King Pariah wrote:

IronSnake wrote:

King Pariah wrote:Denel NTW-20
XM-109
The Beowulf .50 cal upper receiver variant for the M4
XM25

Those could probably do it with relative ease, I wouldn't be surprised if an AP 7.62mm popped them.

And a bullet proof bones? Just have to get one round to penetrate the gaps in the ribcage and let it bounce around inside of him tearing up all his vital organs, have fun with that.

There are no gaps in a SM's rib cage...

None? Then how do they manage to breath? Kinda need seperation of ribs for the ribcage to expand when inhaling. And a fused ribcage would seriously limit your upper body mobility. So suddenly Space Marines have turned into slow walking tanks with a hard time breathing. God forbid they over exert themselves.

Good lord you guys. Just stick to your ork, eldar, necron... whatever knowledge I guess. Or do some reading?

From lexicanum and/or the CODEX itself:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine

Ossmodula

Phase 2: A small, complex, tubular organ, the ossmodula secretes hormones that both affect the ossification of the skeleton and encourages the forming bone growths to absorb ceramic-based chemicals that are laced into the Marine's diet.1 This drastically alters the way a Space Marine's bones grow and develop. Two years after this implant is first put in the subject's long bones will have increased in size and strength (along with most other bones), and the rib cage will have been fused into a solid mass of bulletproof, interlocking plates.

There you go.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeffDred wrote:

There are no gaps in a SM's rib cage...

Space Marine ribs grow double-wide, then overlap.

Like a window shade.

There is space between the ribs, but those spaces are tiny and face downward not forward.

Yes correct. Interlocking plates. Not the standard human design. In essence they are a solid mass.

And SM's also have two lungs (if breathing becomes a problem or if one lung is destroyed). Some of you need to read the link I posted above.

IronSnake wrote:
And SM's also have two lungs (if breathing becomes a problem or if one lung is destroyed). Some of you need to read the link I posted above.

Hate to break it to ya, but so do I, and the vast majority of humanity.

Now, a third lung, on the other hand...

Indeed, I also have a second lung. I must be a Space Marine!

Wait, I'm female, I can't be a Space Marine...

Goodness. I'm off today.

I meant to say the multi-lung. Was also thinking of the secondary heart for some reason. Nevermind.

Thanks for clarifying that it's interlocking sliding plates instead of a fused ribcage, now that makes a bit more sense then being an unwieldy buffoon.

And I think you meant second set of lungs Maybe you should just stick to your ork, eldar, necron... whatever knowledge I guess. Or do some reading?

Already corrected myself.

I would think a space marine looks like a more muscular version of that basketball player and not nearly as wide...