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So just to be "that guy" (and please note I'm not being completely serious with this question). Since the whole platoon "counts as" a single unit, does that mean the whole platoon has to be in coherency when deployed?
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
Particularly since you could use this, if you went first, to literally cover the midline and force your opponent to deploy only in the rear 6" of his deployment zone. Site the lascannon HWTs a bit further back, and you can open fire on literally any point in your enemy's deployment zone turn 1.
@BeRzErKeR
transports don't take the same FOC slot. The take no slots at all. And they are not an "upgrade" to the unit. They are the dedicated transport of the unit. They have a distinct set of rules. Characters such as Snikrot cannot possibly make a precedent for chimeras as they have their own set of rules.
What's the exact wording? Because if it just says the platoon 'counts as' a single unit for deployment, then I think Happyjew's actually right. If they 'count as' a single unit for deployment, they have to follow ALL the rules for deploying a unit, which I believe includes deploying in coherency. . .
Happyjew wrote:So just to be "that guy" (and please note I'm not being completely serious with this question). Since the whole platoon "counts as" a single unit, does that mean the whole platoon has to be in coherency when deployed?
No, because it only counts as a single unit for the purposes of the mission - and only deploying them in "place of" another unit. From them there is nothing saying that when you actually place them (deployMENT) they must still count as a single unit
COpper - just give up. You're wrong, and will continue to be wrong about this. Your continued attempts at making up rules, AND ignoring errata when it suits you, is just comical. Give up
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/18 17:04:08
What's the exact wording? Because if it just says the platoon 'counts as' a single unit for deployment, then I think Happyjew's actually right. If they 'count as' a single unit for deployment, they have to follow ALL the rules for deploying a unit, which I believe includes deploying in coherency. . .
Which would be a small price to pay in order to deploy up to 10 Infantry Squads, 2 Platoon Command Squads, 10 HWS, 4 SWS, 2 Conscripts Squads and 12 Chimeras (absurd example, I know)....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/18 17:07:05
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"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
What's the exact wording? Because if it just says the platoon 'counts as' a single unit for deployment, then I think Happyjew's actually right. If they 'count as' a single unit for deployment, they have to follow ALL the rules for deploying a unit, which I believe includes deploying in coherency. . .
You believe wrong - there's never a requirement to deploy in coherency.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
You have units A, B and C. Platoon composition says that A & B can be deployed as one unit. Since C is completely separate unit, what gives you the right to deploy it as part of the platoon? There is not even a hint in the rules for that. You can use the transport rules and deploy 1 chimera with the infantry squad, but it counts to the 2 unit limit of DoW, so the rest must come in the 1st turn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/18 17:16:25
nosferatu1001 wrote:Also - there is no requirement to deploy in coherency...for any unit, ever
Forgot about that little tidbit. Even after participating in that discussion too.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
copper.talos wrote:You have units A, B and C. Platoon composition says that A & B can be deployed as one unit. Since C is completely separate unit, what gives you the right to deploy it as part of the platoon? There is not even a hint in the rules for that. You can use the transport rules and deploy 1 chimera with the infantry squad, but it counts to the 2 unit limit of DoW, so the rest must come in the 1st turn.
No, you have a platoon of units 'A' 'B' and 'C'. They are supposed to be deployed as 1 choice in DoW. Unit 'C' is in dedicated transport 'T', but is still required to be deployed with the platoon. If unit 'C' was in Vendetta 'V', it would come in separately.
Surprisingly I can't seem to find that "upgrade" part. Probably more rules falsifying, just the same as your previous claim that dedicated transports occupy the same FOC slot as the unit that bought them.
Buying a unit a dedicated transport has a defined set rules. Mentioning them as an upgrade to the unit are not part of those rules....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/18 18:29:02
copper.talos wrote: Probably more rules falsifying, just the same as your previous claim that dedicated transports occupy the same FOC slot as the unit that bought them.
Check page 92 under "Multiple unit choices".
"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
And before, when deploying, the Infantry Platoon Command Squad was 1 unit, the 2-5 Infantry Platoon Squads were 2-5 units, etc.
Now the platoon (including everything bought for them) counts as 1 unit for the purpose of deployment.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
@kirsanth I know that entry. But pg 87 says that dedicated transports sits outside of the FOC! Anyway codex IG says that DTs don't take a FOC slot at all.
If your post was in defence of Nos, he falsified the pg 87 entry from "dedicated transports count as being from the same FOC category" to "dedicated transports count as being from the same FOC slot" to "prove" his point...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/18 18:43:02
Dedicated Transports
Sometimes a unit entry in a Codex will include a transport option, allowing a vehicle to be selected together with the unit. These 'dedicated transports' do not use up a slot on the force organisation chart. Other vehicles may also have a transport capacity, but they are chosen separately as normal and occupy a force organisation chart slot of their own (for example, the might Space Marine Land Raider).
The only limitation of a dedicated transport is that when it is deployed it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any independent characters). After the game begins, it can then transport any friendly infantry unit, subject to transport capacity and other special exclusions, as explained in the vehicle's entry (it might not be able to transport Terminators, for example).
Source: Page 67, Warhammer 40,000 rulebook
Many Imperial Guard units have the option of selecting a dedicated transport vehicle. These vehicles do not use up any force organisation chart selections, but otherwise function as a separate unit. See the Vehicles section of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook for details on how transport vehicles operate.
Source: Page 99, Codex: Imperial Guard
Infantry Platoon:
Composition: 1 Platoon Command Squad, 2-5 Infantry Squads, 0-5 Heavy Weapons Squads, 0-2 Special Weapons Squads, and 0-1 Conscript Squad. Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place of a single unit in missions that limit the number of units that can be deployed. In addition when making a reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole Infantry Platoon. Any units in reserve that are embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead rolled for separately.
Source: Page 96, Codex: Imperial Guard and Codex: Imperial Guard FAQ/Errata for January 2010
Transport:
The squad may take a Chimera as a dedicated transport (see page 99 for point cost).
Source: Page 96 (and several others), Codex: Imperial Guard
It really is cut and dry so I'm not sure why there's a small percentage of people trying to argue otherwise. The Infantry Platoon Force Organisation Choice is allowed to deploy as a single unit in Dawn of War, and is rolled for as one unit for reserves/outflanking. The Infantry Platoon is made up of several units, listed under its composition. Some of those units may take a dedicated transport.
The manner in which the Infantry/Command Squads can take a transport is the same way they take any other upgrades. "One Guardsmen may take", "the squad may take", etc. The Dedicated Transport is part of the Infantry Squad or Command Squad it was purchased for. Those Squads are part of the Infantry Platoon that they were purchased for. That Infantry Platoon gets the Deployment advantage spelled out in the FAQ.
Units that are part of the Infantry Platoon that are in non-dedicated transports are rolled for separately because the transport they are in still needs to make a reserve roll. This is how Land Raiders have worked since 5th Edition was released so its absurd that its confusing people now. You can hold a unit in reserve and put them in a Land raider or Falcon Grav Tank or any other vehicle that has a Transport Capacity. You only make one reserve roll then, and its for the encapsulating vehicle. The cargo literally gets a free ride.
What's really interesting about this, is that this means Al'Rahem's Infantry Platoon can Outflank in Chimeras. So you can have 6 Chimeras, 5 with 1 Meltagun and 1 with 4 Meltaguns, come in from reserve together. Even better, because of the FAQ they only take one outflank roll so they come in from the same table edge.
I've been speculating for a while of making a Mechanized Imperial Guard army, this might just push me over the edge. Only downside is I wouldn't know what to take for an HQ.
nos, I wouldn't say that a DT is an upgrade to a unit; instead, it is a unit purchased to haul the other unit around. FedEx isn't an upgrade to my mail.
But, again, it doesn't matter if the chimeras are part of the platoon or not, the units inside them have to come in when the platoon comes in either way. I personally say they aren't part of the platoon but they go where the platoon goes, so who really cares?
Coppers "argument" is that you cannot deploy them in DoW, along with the Platoon, despite the clear requirement for you to do so.
Arguably they ARE an upgrade - but not being an upgrade doesnt alter that they ARE part of the platoon and ARE deployed along with the rest of the platoon as a counts-as "unit" in DoW.
Nothing Copper says will alter that; he is simply 100% wrong on this entire subject
cowmonaut wrote:T
The manner in which the Infantry/Command Squads can take a transport is the same way they take any other upgrades. "One Guardsmen may take", "the squad may take", etc. The Dedicated Transport is part of the Infantry Squad or Command Squad it was purchased for. Those Squads are part of the Infantry Platoon that they were purchased for. That Infantry Platoon gets the Deployment advantage spelled out in the FAQ.
You see this is where you are wrong. The way infantry squads take a dedicated transport is no different than an SM squad can take an dedicated transport. So using your way of thinking and keeping in mind that the rules for transports regarding a chimera and a rhino are exactly the same, you can say that just as "The Dedicated Transport is part of the Infantry Squad..." that "The Dedicated Transport is part of the SM Squad". Although it isn't. Your way of thinking is wrong. They are separate units and in DoW count as 2 units deployed.
Fair enough, I'll deploy my platoon in their Chimeras (which is allowed per the FAQ), and then on my first turn, just disembark everything. Problem solved.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
18.000 
3.500 
8.200 
3.300 
2.400 
3.100 
5.500 
2.500 
3.200 
3.000
