Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well, not so long ago rumors were a fairly pleasant and accurate thing. Since the great GW crackdown the rumor mills have gone kind of crazy trying to scrape together bits of information.

The whole thing is quite interesting. Internet nerd drama often is.

Also if someone made up *all* rumours and yet was right about dreadfleet that is a false statement. (I always tell the truth/That was a lie)

Was there not a soritas 'release' in terms of the codex? I wonder if in a years time if/when SoB get released if they match his descriptions will we remember him?

However deliberate mis-information as opposed to rumours isn't helping anyone at all.

oh well,

I do not understand why people would waste time making up news about a company. This goes far beyond nerd.

Anyway, thanks for the heads up Kroot.

Ghost predicted Dreadfleet with one line, i see no ships.

First off, this is incredibly vague and could, after the fact, be seen as a hint that ships are coming, or as a denial that ships are coming.

Second, there was already rampant speculation about the release at that point and it's not like Man'o'war wasn't on the table. Between it, Blood Bowl and Quest as the main suspects, it was about 1/3 chance to get it right with nothing but a guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And look, there's already a new guy, registered a few days ago, handing out rumours on Warseer. They never learn.

lord_blackfang wrote:Ghost predicted Dreadfleet with one line, i see no ships.

First off, this is incredibly vague and could, after the fact, be seen as a hint that ships are coming, or as a denial that ships are coming.

Second, there was already rampant speculation about the release at that point and it's not like Man'o'war wasn't on the table. Between it, Blood Bowl and Quest as the main suspects, it was about 1/3 chance to get it right with nothing but a guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And look, there's already a new guy, registered a few days ago, handing out rumours on Warseer. They never learn.

Yes, I never trusted him back since Necrons were comming out, here is what I think

LunaHound wrote:

Fat_Little_Ripper wrote:So how is Hastings track record when it comes to rumors? More reliable than StickMonkey or Ghost I take it?

Hasting is accurate, accurate enough for us to know he is telling the truth.

Ghost21 on the other hands speculates the same way those online "psychic hotline" works.

Here watch this, i'll do the same:

Tau will get new type of experimental suit, with new type of weaponry. And there will be hybrid kit.
They'll get 2-4 new characters, with 2 new sculpts for special character ( wow i saw them they are beautiful )

etc etc

And throw in a few for good measuers

"Hasting is correct, my source also tells me the same"

See this type of sentence is incredible annoying. It doubles to piggy back someone that is credible,
yet if it does turn out correct, it adds to HIS OWN credibility.
If it does turn out wrong, no one can fault him, because after all, Hasting would be wrong as well.

Tricky tricky, smart but tricky.

Thanks SRM.

This post by SoD on Warseer seems pertinent and quite well written


If anything, we (as in the 'rumour audience') are the problem - and I include myself in that.

When did it become so important to know everything about an upcoming release before it is actually released? I can understand the temptation but it reminds me of rooting around in your parents' cupboard as a kid in the lead up to Christmas in the hope of discovering your presents. There is an initial burst of excitement but when the big day comes you're left with a feeling of emptiness because there's no big surprise. This is exactly what happened with the 4th ed Eldar 'dex - we knew pretty much everything a whole month before the release.

Perhaps we've become spoilt. I think this is evident in some of the posts I have seen with some people even talking of quitting the hobby because the latest rumour suggests that their army of choice isn't coming out for another two years. Get a grip people.

It's only natural to want to know if your favourite army is on the horizon but is there really any need to know every minute detail before you get the codex in your hands? I applaud GW for trying to remain so tight lipped in recent years.

So I can't really complain too much if it has become incredibly difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff due to the deluge of rumours. Our furious demand has created this environment and if it has become a circus due to the number of contradictory rumours flying around then I think that is a lesson for us all.

That seems about half right. I want to know what's coming up so I know what to save for, what to look forward to, and so on. We don't like being kept in the dark, but we don't necessarily need the full codex leak ahead of time either. We may or may not want to know exactly what presents are in that closet, but at the very least we want to know that there ARE presents in that closet.

It's really not. If he needs that surprise to make a new army fun, that's his problem.

I've bolded the parts you guys seem to have missed.
Nowhere did he say that army (or general) releases should be shrouded in mystery and kept under wraps until the very day of release. What he did say was that having every single detail leaked before the release date spolis it for many people and I'll include myself in that. Personally I stayed about as far away as I could from the 100 page+ Necron codex thread a few months back. People were already coming up with builds and tactics before the Codex had hit the shelves (not to mentioned the fluff change wars that accompianied it). Whilst thats fun and exciting for some, it ruins it for others.

So, while I appreciate SoD's perspective, it should be clearly stated that (s)he by no means speaks for everyone.

Absolutely, no one claimed however that he was speaking for everyone, it was just a well written albeit single perspective.
Others disagree, no problem there but claiming he said one thing when he clearly didnt is misleading.

I've never heard of this Ghost 21 before because I tend to skim most rumour threads, but he sounds like a complete troll.

His exchange with that BL author was a piece or particularly bizarre and aggressive nonsense, borderline psychotic if you ask me. He's probably a child, he sure writes and behaves like one, craving for attention.

If he's a troll, he's a very dedicated one. More than anyone else who claims to be providing rumors, he spends a significant time on forums, responding. Maybe that's just him getting his jollies, but it seems like a lot more work than even the people who've produced fake books.

Going back two pages, I have to admit the first time I read Ghost21's quote about "making it up" I didn't take that as an admission, I really think he is just tired of defending himself. I think he does hear rumors, but I think he inserts his own thoughts and rationals on them. Even then I don't think its all that credible.

-Loki- wrote:To be fair, stickmonkey is about as reliable as ghost21 was.

To be fair, he was the first to predict 6th edition for 2012, the first to predict a Tyranid 2nd wave for late 2011 (a year in advance), Immortals to get bigger and move to standard, several flyers about to be released etc. . So personally I trust him giving early rumours that can change until release.

Lormax wrote:Between the leaked 6th edition PDF, and now this, someone is really laughing it up behind his/her monitor.

This kinda thing is exactly why I don't pay attention to the rumor threads. It'll all come out/get released/happen when it happens.

Tyranid 2nd wave rumor thread, 15 pages long.
GW Paint rumor thread, 7 pages long.
6th edition leak thread, 103 pages long!

Continually posting and bumping these threads is just giving the false rumor-mongers their e-hardon. The rabid community is to blame. Don't feed the trolls

Actually, at least the first two are correct.

BTW here another post by ghost21:

ghost21 wrote:

Hokiecow wrote:It doesn't sounds like a confession, but more as "I'm tired of being picked on, I'm leaving!"

n thats exactly how i meant it,

Kroothawk wrote:
Actually, at least the first two are correct.

3rd is too, in a way. If BoW is to be believed it is a GW work piece and at one point was in consideration for 6E. It was just discarded in favor of another set.

Kroothawk wrote:

-Loki- wrote:To be fair, stickmonkey is about as reliable as ghost21 was.

To be fair, he was the first to predict 6th edition for 2012, the first to predict a Tyranid 2nd wave for late 2011 (a year in advance), Immortals to get bigger and move to standard, several flyers about to be released etc. . So personally I trust him giving early rumours that can change until release.

To be fair, I think most of us figured out the edition release pattern around 2008 at the latest
Tyranid 2nd wave in late 2011 didn't happen, so I don't know what you're getting at there. Neither did any flyers apart from the Razorwing, hardly a surprise since it's a Codex unit. Stickmonkey predicted a whole lot of other flyers, none of which are out yet.

I'll give you Immortals, although again a commonly used elite unit moving to Troops is hardly unprecedented (Dire Avengers, Cult CSM, Wyches) and I think it was often mentioned in wishlist treads over the past decade.

Now, I don't think stickmonkey was necessarily intentionally dishonest like ghost was, but his predictions are really not any better than any veteran's informed guesses.

lol, now he is playing the I-only-said-it-becaus-you-picked-on-me Card.

Rumours are rumours, they aren't always true.

Kroothawk wrote:
BTW here another post by ghost21:

ghost21 wrote:

Hokiecow wrote:It doesn't sounds like a confession, but more as "I'm tired of being picked on, I'm leaving!"

n thats exactly how i meant it,

The problem is however that now
a ) Any other rumours he writes are going to be extremely suspect, more so because he tried to call Dead Blue Clown out about actually being ADB (perhaps as it's unusual for a BL writer to post on those forums) and his bluff was called.
b ) The way he responded to it. Extremely childish, and as Howard A Treesong pointed out, more than a little cause of concern.

Wait, people actually believed this guy?

This is a rumor. I wouldn't trust it.

terranarc wrote:Wait, people actually believed this guy?

People hear what they want to hear.
When a Tau player hears a snippet of Tau rumours, they'll cling onto them for example. Particularly when Games Workshop isn't around to provide actual information.
It's fairly clear (and even from the responses on this thread) that people liked hearing something and having something to discuss, even if it's gak.

--------

I'm not surprised that Ghost was making them up. Lunahound's post (see below) demonstrated how easy it is to make vague yet credible rumours and Ghost's seemed exactly like that. Combine that with their regularity, his claims of sources (see 'discussion' with ABD, who should gain much respect from many), their inaccuracy and contradiction of absolutely-correct rumours (e.g. disagreeing with Yak on the Necrons) and the grammar he expressed (so, a kid knows what GW have up their sleeves?) and it would always be difficult to believe his claims.

His 'confession', seemed just that, a confession, rather than truly admitting he made them up. His latest post strikes me as an excuse and little more. Ultimately, whether he made them up or not (and I see no reason to believe they were not made up), they couldn't really be believed.
Now he's gone, all the better for it IMHO.

LunaHound wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Ghost predicted Dreadfleet with one line, i see no ships.

First off, this is incredibly vague and could, after the fact, be seen as a hint that ships are coming, or as a denial that ships are coming.

Second, there was already rampant speculation about the release at that point and it's not like Man'o'war wasn't on the table. Between it, Blood Bowl and Quest as the main suspects, it was about 1/3 chance to get it right with nothing but a guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And look, there's already a new guy, registered a few days ago, handing out rumours on Warseer. They never learn.

Yes, I never trusted him back since Necrons were comming out, here is what I think

LunaHound wrote:

Fat_Little_Ripper wrote:So how is Hastings track record when it comes to rumors? More reliable than StickMonkey or Ghost I take it?

Hasting is accurate, accurate enough for us to know he is telling the truth.

Ghost21 on the other hands speculates the same way those online "psychic hotline" works.

Here watch this, i'll do the same:

Tau will get new type of experimental suit, with new type of weaponry. And there will be hybrid kit.
They'll get 2-4 new characters, with 2 new sculpts for special character ( wow i saw them they are beautiful )

etc etc

And throw in a few for good measuers

"Hasting is correct, my source also tells me the same"

See this type of sentence is incredible annoying. It doubles to piggy back someone that is credible,
yet if it does turn out correct, it adds to HIS OWN credibility.
If it does turn out wrong, no one can fault him, because after all, Hasting would be wrong as well.

Tricky tricky, smart but tricky.

lord_blackfang wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

-Loki- wrote:To be fair, stickmonkey is about as reliable as ghost21 was.

To be fair, he was the first to predict 6th edition for 2012, the first to predict a Tyranid 2nd wave for late 2011 (a year in advance), Immortals to get bigger and move to standard, several flyers about to be released etc. . So personally I trust him giving early rumours that can change until release.

To be fair, I think most of us figured out the edition release pattern around 2008 at the latest
Tyranid 2nd wave in late 2011 didn't happen, so I don't know what you're getting at there. Neither did any flyers apart from the Razorwing, hardly a surprise since it's a Codex unit. Stickmonkey predicted a whole lot of other flyers, none of which are out yet.

I'll give you Immortals, although again a commonly used elite unit moving to Troops is hardly unprecedented (Dire Avengers, Cult CSM, Wyches) and I think it was often mentioned in wishlist treads over the past decade.

Now, I don't think stickmonkey was necessarily intentionally dishonest like ghost was, but his predictions are really not any better than any veteran's informed guesses.

To be fair while it's true that alot of what he has put forth could well be guessed at does not by virtue mean he doesn't have access to info and while the Tyranid 2nd wave didn't come late 2011 according to posts by credible rumourmongers there is one coming very soon which leads into what ive noticed when it comes to stickmonkey. He is overly generous with what he predicts will come out over a period of time but if you go back and read some of his old rumours his release order has been very accurate quite a long ways in advance so long as you basically double the timeframe if he says X, Y, Z will release in the next 6 months they probably will in that order but it will take 12 months.

The only other mark against him is the whole summer of flyers thing which again to be fair considering every codex from 5th ed IG has included a new "flyer" unit entry and IIRC he was talking about it before BA and the Stormraven came about. It's entirely possible that at one point there was a "summer of flyers" planned but they instead just decided to include them in the codex updates. Or perhaps that was never the intention as It's come to be my understanding that due to the nature of the Large Flight Stand being the type of component packaged into multiple boxed sets that is not cast as part of the sprue a considerable number of plastic kits need to use the component to justify the component being used in the first place. It's quite possible that Stickmonkey who based on the nature and timing of the info he has been accurate about if he does have "real" info it seems to be on the early production end and mistaking a bunch of flyers for different armies coming through not because they were all being released soon but perhaps "yeah we will definatly produce a bunch of unit rules/flyer kits for the flying stands" from the design isn't sufficient for the GW bean counters and that a minimum number of kits that would utilize the stand would need to be taken to the "point of no return" in terms of stages of production to satisfy said bean counters signing off on the flight stand in the first place and so these "flyer" models all being pushed through could easily be interpreted by someone not 100% in the know as a coming expansion/single release.

KOS wrote:oh well,

I do not understand why people would waste time making up news about a company. This goes far beyond nerd.

Trust me, random speculation and baseless gossip isnt just for wargamers

I hope you're not going to be passing along any more of his rumors, Kroot, even taken with salt... you're for the most part my filter, so I'm glad you've been keeping an eye on this!

Someone please inform me when it is time to grab the pitch forks and take Ghost21 to the gallows.

Blood for the blood god and all.

Between you and me lethal injection is a more human way to do it these days.

In truth this maybe difficult if Ghost21 is in fact a ghost and it is to my knowledge that they are free of the trappings of the mortal realm and so probably immune to both a hanging and lethal injection!

With this in mind we will instead need someone to banish him so on that note does anyone know the number of Keanu Reeves?

Hmmm... Hypothetically what would Ghost's job be if he was actually at a BL meeting and not an author/ editor???

I have hardly read anything Ghost posted generally, but very little about how and where he finds out his stuff (hypothetically for the sake of discussion saying it was mostly true). Anyone have any ideas where in GW he works (presuming he does)?

A lot of presumption in there, but perhaps someone knows something he's said? Feel free to pm me if this is not suitable for public discussion.

After the random fantasy armylists thing he posted that nobody else had heard of I switched off. I posted at the time that this was exactly the sort of thing that would identify who the leak was. But perhaps in hindsight you can't fire people who don't work for you...?

I find it pays to know more about people (privately) if you feel the need to spend time and energy trusting them.

Darkseid wrote:lol, now he is playing the I-only-said-it-becaus-you-picked-on-me Card.

I wouldn't exactly call it "playing a card" when a number of people interpreted it that way to begin with. Simply put the internet has a 80% sarcasm filter.

Just Dave wrote:
I'm not surprised that Ghost was making them up. Lunahound's post (see below) demonstrated how easy it is to make vague yet credible rumours and Ghost's seemed exactly like that. Combine that with their regularity, his claims of sources (see 'discussion' with ABD, who should gain much respect from many), their inaccuracy and contradiction of absolutely-correct rumours (e.g. disagreeing with Yak on the Necrons) and the grammar he expressed (so, a kid knows what GW have up their sleeves?) and it would always be difficult to believe his claims.

His 'confession', seemed just that, a confession, rather than truly admitting he made them up. His latest post strikes me as an excuse and little more. Ultimately, whether he made them up or not (and I see no reason to believe they were not made up), they couldn't really be believed.
Now he's gone, all the better for it IMHO.

The problem with relying on Lunahound's example of vagueness is that there is no distinguishing between that type of false rumors, and real rumors that are just generally vague. Its like saying is Ochre a brownish-yellow or a yellowish-brown?-The distinction is only in how its made.

Contectually its hard to take it as a confession. You read all his posts leading up to that one and it is more the voice of some one who is frustrated with being attacked, then it is someone who is wrong and feeling threatend by discovery.

I don't believe his rumors, but I believe he believes his rumors.

lord_blackfang wrote:Ghost predicted Dreadfleet with one line, i see no ships.

One line? You sure about that? I would give Kroot a bit more credit than that.



He correctly predicted the date (September), the style (Boxed Game), the genre (Warhammer Fantasy), and theme (Naval). It could be that Ghost was regurgitating old, outdated/debunked rumors from prior years...but I am not really sure how Ghost found out about this one as Dreadfleet (and the whole September special box set) came out of left field...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RiTides wrote:I hope you're not going to be passing along any more of his rumors, Kroot, even taken with salt... you're for the most part my filter, so I'm glad you've been keeping an eye on this!

I'm sure he has been put on most of the rumor compilors' "ignore list"

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:Rumours are rumours, they aren't always true.

There's a different between rumors and deliberate fabrications.

I'm guessing he actually got a hot tip on the Dreadfleet thing from a store manager or something at best, then ran with it.

wyomingfox wrote:

He correctly predicted the date (September), the style (Boxed Game), the genre (Warhammer Fantasy), and theme (Naval). It could be that Ghost was regurgitating old, outdated/debunked rumors from prior years...but I am not really sure how Ghost found out about this one as Dreadfleet (and the whole September special box set) came out of left field...

Only based on the fact that Space Hulk was a) the previous year, b) a massive success and c) GW like to repeat that for even LFL sales... Luck played a part on this one, IMHO. There's only so many oop 'Specialist' games that lurk within the GW back-catalogue, and following a 40k 'mystery box' with a another 40k mystery box doesn't seem right. I personally have always severely doubted the truth of any of his rumours.
Case in point, he claimed on Warseer that Forge World had already finished Chaos Dwarf Bull Centaurs and K'daai (and that he had seen the models) when FW themselves (and individual designers at Games Days etc) repeatedly said that they hadn't even started them yet... Incedentally I posted as much at the time and was shouted down.

@johnny

Funny that, I was told by Keith Robertson at games day that Steve Whitehead had already started the BC but had to stop to work on the monstrous arcana stuff???

I forget whether he said already finished or part way through, but I'm 100% certain they are at least part done sitting somewhere.

Space Hulk was 2009, not 2010.

Goliath wrote:The thing that really annoys me about this is the fact that he makes up these rumours, and then when they turn out to not be true, GW takes flak for not following the rumour mill, as if they've declared that they're doing tau in september, and then when they don't do tau in september they've actually been decieving us, rather than it being the fault of the person who supplied dodgy rumours.

People who know me know I'm not a GW basher, but I have a hard time mustering a lot of sympathy for GW in this regard and others. You wanna be a public-owned multinational, you gotta grow a thick skin. So let's not throw them any pity parties.

aka_mythos wrote:If he's a troll, he's a very dedicated one. More than anyone else who claims to be providing rumors, he spends a significant time on forums, responding. Maybe that's just him getting his jollies, but it seems like a lot more work than even the people who've produced fake books.

Going back two pages, I have to admit the first time I read Ghost21's quote about "making it up" I didn't take that as an admission, I really think he is just tired of defending himself. I think he does hear rumors, but I think he inserts his own thoughts and rationals on them. Even then I don't think its all that credible.

I tend to agree. It didn't help that he may have been pretending to be a GW employee, etc. It would explain a lot if he was receiving some vague info second- or third-hand and was filling in the rest himself.

Personally, if I had a good source at GW and learned things, I'd never share it on forums, etc. And not just out of respect for my source, but because I have zero interest in dealing with pics of giant grains of salt and cries of being a "false rumormonger" from people who just don't like what I'm saying, even if it's 100% accurate. Heck, I don't even pretend to understand the whole "true rumor" and "false rumor" thing...I thought the whole point of a rumor was that it sits between truth and falsehood. So why can't people let it lie there? *shrug*

lord_blackfang wrote:And look, there's already a new guy, registered a few days ago, handing out rumours on Warseer. They never learn.

Sometimes, though, those are the people who will register a new account just to drop rumors, such as when a new poster made references to Grey Knights getting an exo-suit of a sort long before anyone started talking about it. It's when a poster's track record become suspect but people continue to listen to them that criticism is warranted.