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-Loki- wrote:That still doesn't make them overpowered. It just makes gives them essentially a SM missile launcher that can move and shoot, but loses what, two thirds of its range? Fair trade off. And definitely a unit I want to play against. More aspect types when fighting against Eldar is always fun.

3/8ths the range actually.

And no one said they were overpowered, we said they are the opposite. Underpowered is still unbalanced.


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Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, but its still pretty expensive for what you get.

it is an improvement to the Eldar codex for sure.

Yes, even Forge World knows how to apply the Eldar tax: make everything 25% more expensive than what it's worth.

As a side note, I am not into anything Eldar as I dislike their aesthetic, but that FW Hornet absolutely kills me. It's so well done.

DeathReaper wrote:

spiralingcadaver wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

spiralingcadaver wrote:Actually, I'd argue that he's correct: no unit should be able to beat it,.

He said no unit CAN beat it.

I gave two examples of units that could beat it.

Did you read the part of the sentence you deleted? Because that was the part that I'd argue matters.

So, there's this unit I just made up that doesn't exist anywhere: Terminator Devastators. They're all armed with assault cannons on their heads and stormshields on their lightning claws (which makes their storm shields twin-linked, and rubbing them together makes a static charge that counts as a heavy flamer or a jump pack) and they cost 10 points each.

I could argue that they're unbeatable, and you can argue that you could kill them with a titan, but it doesn't matter because they don't exist.

See how that works?

It does not matter that it is an illegal unit. We are talking forge world here.

The fact still remains that I gave two examples of units that could beat it.

and Snarky gave another example of a unit that could beat it even if it was a unit that does not exist. I was just countering Ailaros claim.

and I could beat your Illegal terminators with some real units as well Say 10 Blood Angel Vanguard Vets with Jump packs, Lightning claws, and Storm Shields, See how that works?

Gold star for reading comprehension!

Lord High Commander Carab Culln:

Combat Tactics is changed to Every Sargent in the army is replaced by an Apothecary.

So basically he grants Feel No Pain everywhere, With an additional combat +1 resolution to his red scorpions in a 12" bubble, and gains attacks like Lelith against lower WS

May not be perfect, but damn does it add some high survivability for no extra cost.

The lucius drop pod is hardly broken anymore. 65pts, dangerous terrain test, takes a fast slot.

Yes, it hurts when it works, but so does melta-units in pods too.

It is just as easy to stop the lucius dread from doing lots of damage as those combi-melta sternguards in a pod. The dread is less useful against tanks, but more useful against infantry.


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ZebioLizard2 wrote:Lord High Commander Carab Culln:

Combat Tactics is changed to Every Sargent in the army is replaced by an Apothecary.

So basically he grants Feel No Pain everywhere, With an additional combat +1 resolution to his red scorpions in a 12" bubble, and gains attacks like Lelith against lower WS

May not be perfect, but damn does it add some high survivability for no extra cost.

What does he cost? What wargear does he have? Can the apotecaries take any wargear? The combat res is totally useless. Not familiar with the Lelith power.

Above 200,
WS6/BS5/S4/T4/W3/I5/A4/LD10/SV2+

Wargear: Terminator armor, teleport homer, Iron Halo, MC SB, The blade of the scorpion

Special Rules: ATSKNF, Chapter Tactics, IC, Orbital Bombardment, Proud to Live, Proud to Die, Hard to kill

Chapter Tactics: Veteran Sergeants in Tactical Squads may be replaced if you wish.

Standard Apothecaries Wargear (Whatever they can take, they can be equipped with)

Proud to Live, Proud to Die, Hard to kill: Eternal Warrior, 12" Add +1 to Combat resolution.

Blade of the Scorpion: MC Relic Blade, if Weapon Skill is greater than your enemy, gain Attacks for how much you are above it. (If fighting something with WS3,he would gain +3 attacks)


I'll be honest, I didn't read it that well and thought it said all Veteran Sergeants could be replaced, not just Tactical squads, which would give nearly all troops FNP.

Yeah... that is a pretty bad character

Blight drones are ridonc a donc

OK, what's the deal with Blight Drones? They've been mentioned several times. Remember, don't get into specifics on the point values.

They are land speeders with battle cannons and better armor.

IIRC they cost about what devil-dogs do.

Ouze wrote:OK, what's the deal with Blight Drones? They've been mentioned several times. Remember, don't get into specifics on the point values.

Essentially it's a flying soul grinder that has the "Phlegm" upgrade but can't actually fight in close combat. It also always explodes. It's also 12/11/10, so they're pretty nasty but manageable.

DarknessEternal wrote:They are land speeders with battle cannons and better armor.

Yep, way over the top.

With armor that low I would be surprised to see them survive much past 2nd turn against just about anything except Nids(and even then Impaler cannons will take them down eventually)

They would go down faster then a cheap date on skid row

The Blight drone is pretty exspensive point wise, I could get a Vendetta for just 5pts more and be ablee to tear blight drones apart.

Also if in a CSM army you must have a plague marine squad in your Army to be allowed to field blight drones

Vendettas are rather underpriced

Yak9UT wrote:
Also if in a CSM army you must have a plague marine squad in your Army to be allowed to field blight drones

You say that like its a bad thing

I don't see a problem with the Land Raider Achilles. It is over 300 pts. That's right, over 300 points. For one tank. (And I still dont get why BA cant take them, I LOVE the unit).

As far as being OP/Under-costed goes, I haven't seen anything in Imperial Armour Apoc 2nd that concerns me more than things in certain GK or IG books. TO be fair, I just got the book today, but I don't see anything too bad.

Grey Templar wrote:

Yak9UT wrote:
Also if in a CSM army you must have a plague marine squad in your Army to be allowed to field blight drones

You say that like its a bad thing

Well yes Plague Marines are good but not cheap, and it means you can't just field Blight Drones on thier own.

Happygrunt wrote:I don't see a problem with the Land Raider Achilles. It is over 300 pts. That's right, over 300 points. For one tank. (And I still dont get why BA cant take them, I LOVE the unit).

The problem is some armies have such a difficult time with it that the points cost becomes irrelevant. It really should have been confined to Apocalypse like that Terminus pattern Land Raider covered in Lascannons.

Blight Drones+Epidimeus=win

I don't have any issues with FW in friendly games, and I honestly would have no issues with it in tournaments if there was at least a hint of parity for the variety of units available for all the armies...not to mention that trying to keep up to date on what your opponent can bring to the table means buying another bunch of books that are even more expensive than the standard dexes.

There really is not much that is overpowered in the FW line up, everything I can think of off the top of my head has been covered already. In fact there is a ton of stuff that is just absolute junk. I think with a little work on toning down the OP stuff and using the next couple books to bring the rest of the races up to speed, I would be open to seeing them as standard fare.

Yak9UT wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Yak9UT wrote:
Also if in a CSM army you must have a plague marine squad in your Army to be allowed to field blight drones

You say that like its a bad thing

Well yes Plague Marines are good but not cheap, and it means you can't just field Blight Drones on thier own.

Don't forget, Blight Drones are huge, it's almost as large as a soul grinder and more difficult to hide due to the turbofans attached to the side of the model.

Also the Achilles is a pretty poor performer for it's points. Sure you can't kill it, but I've rarely seen the Achilles do 300+ points worth of damage to an enemy army.

Thunderfire Cannon and twin TL MMs can't kill 300pts+? Are you stoned? I kid, but I can't see a reason to why it doesn't

The MM assumes there are expensive vehicles to kill. Not always the case.

The TFC is more of a tactical weapon then a weapon of destruction. It isn't going to kill loads of anything besides Boyz or Gaunts(and that won't get its points back)


Its real strength is putting a scoring unit in it and sitting on an objective. A garunteed holding unit is pretty nice.

Deadshot wrote:Thunderfire Cannon and twin TL MMs can't kill 300pts+? Are you stoned? I kid, but I can't see a reason to why it doesn't

Well unless if you enjoy driving Leman Russes to within 12" of the Achilles, then sure, you can let it kill 300+ points of your tanks/heavy hitters. Most of the time however, I keep my tanks out of range of the multimeltas and the Thunderfire cannon rarely kills 300+ points of guardsmen.

Snarky wrote:
Also the Achilles is a pretty poor performer for it's points. Sure you can't kill it, but I've rarely seen the Achilles do 300+ points worth of damage to an enemy army.

It doesn't need to, it's great value is that it can basically park itself somewhere and deny an area to an opponent with two TL'd MM's and a thunderfire cannon, or hold an objective with utter certainty. VP's aren't part of the game anymore, and even if they were it'd be great VP denial to most opponents.

most OP Unit blight drones but they are killable

As too anyone who has trouble with an achillies all you need to do is take out the thunderfire cannon and then stay 24" away and blow it to heck.

Achillies are probably best just ignored. A single TFC is annoying, but hardly enough to be worthy of the effort of ripping it off.

I would just ignore it, accept the objective it is sitting on as lost and just eat its fire and go for the other objectives. Maybe zip a squad over on the last turn to contest.


Blight Drones are the perfect mixture of being a threat, yet at the same time being fairly vulnerable.

Personally I love Forge Worlds units. It helps break the cookie-cutter type of play that 40K is/has become.

The problem with the people that dislike Forge World is that:
- They base their arguments on experimental rules instead of the final ones.

- Speak of putting Apocalypse units such as Titans in a regular game.

- Speak from a metagame/mathhammer point of view rather than experience.

Is the Achilles tough? Of course it is. It's 300 pts.
In return...I will put together a 300 point unit that will c²²²slap that thing off the board before moving on.

But without list tailoring there are plenty of things that can still hurt it.
- Lascannons
- Chain Fists
- Thunder hammers
-Melta Bombs (Yes it's immuned to Melta but if you read closely melta bombs do NOT have the melta RULE so they work).
- DCCW
- Haywire grenades
- Railguns
- D-Cannons
- Warp Hunters
- Prism Tanks
- Prism weaponry (Shadow Specters)
- Monstrous Creatures

And that's just those I came up in less than a minute. Think outside the box a bit and drop the melta-fetish metagame for a sec. There is OTHER stuff out there.

If an item is not labeled Apocalypse or Super-Heavy I have no problem playing against it. It should be fun and different.

Another problem is that I think some players do not like their tournament comfort zone disturbed. I think it shows a lack of capability to adapt and how much cookie-cutter the game has become.