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7.5

AV12 can be easily cracked by most lists I play with and against. But this is still a very useful unit.

3x Lascannons, troops, moves fast.

Joey wrote:
I'd love to see a list that included three storm ravens AND could take out every single veteran and CCS squad, as well as their chimeras.
I suspect you may in fact be talking out of your arse.

No, you are. Truly.

It doesnt have to take out "every single" CCS and Vet squad. Just the ones the can make it to 12". And can be twin linked. Given that was your hypothesis - that 4x meltas twin linked would do it. Bearing in mind i have 3+ cover.

3xSR, 3xDCA, 1xCoteaz, 1xlibby w/stroke nades, 3 x psyriflemen. 1750 points, flexible around number of DCA. the psyriflemen reliably crack a chimera / hydra a turn, in return ignoring stunned and shaken results, your most likely result from S7 hydra and hopefully hitting manticore, and can shoot and move to full effect. Oh wait, your manticores were shooting the SR, hoping....

If you want your chimera shooting anything, you're only moving 6" a turn, comfortably lagging the 24" SR.
I simply dont think you have seen a Sr list played well. They have bad match ups, but Guard with vets in chimera is not one of them

Zweischneid wrote:If I mount my Landraiders on flying stands, would you let me have em for 150 pts. instead of 250? If I put an Eldar Falcon up there, would you let me take it for free?

land raiders are AV14, so cover doesn't matter as much. Plus, they come with assault ramps in an army that can deliver THSS termies, unlike guard. That's way too apples and oranges.

As for falcons, I agree that they're overpriced, but they were overpriced before the vendetta came out already. Why would you assume that you should get them for FREE?

Plus, like land raiders, falcons can also take better upgrades and carry cooler cargo.

Dont worry guys, by the next Guard codex is released, Vendetta will be nerfed to hell.

They are only OP because GW wants to sell the new shinny plastic kit back then

Ailaros wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:If I mount my Landraiders on flying stands, would you let me have em for 150 pts. instead of 250? If I put an Eldar Falcon up there, would you let me take it for free?

land raiders are AV14, so cover doesn't matter as much. Plus, they come with assault ramps in an army that can deliver THSS termies, unlike guard. That's way too apples and oranges.

As for falcons, I agree that they're overpriced, but they were overpriced before the vendetta came out already. Why would you assume that you should get them for FREE?

Plus, like land raiders, falcons can also take better upgrades and carry cooler cargo.

It helps reading the arguments that have gone before. Alot of people pointed out, that Vendettas appear overpriced. Pick a rough equivalent (mostly from Marine armies, as they have similar weapons) for what they pay for a set of three TL-LC (or non-TL as the Predator for example), lack the advantage of fast, lack the advantage of transport capacity, lack the advantage of scout, lack the advantage of being a skimmer, lack the advantage of being able to take squadrons, lack the advantage of beinga skimmer, etc.. yet cost (in the case of the Predator) 35 points more already, an it's apparent that Vendettas are severely underpriced. In turn, the oppositions argument tended to be "but they are on flying stands" as if that sole feature would remedy their vast advantages at ridiculous low point values. Hence my question on how much (irrespective of other rules) you would allow me "hypothetically" to reduce point costs for a given vehicle if I mount it on a flying stands. It was a way of getting a ballpart-figure on how much this "disadvantage" was worth in points.

Also, you cannot price vehicles on the units they carry. TH/SS-Terminators are great. They are also a lot more expensive than Guardsman. The advantage of the TH/SS Terminators are paid for in the cost of the infantry, not their transport. A Landraider doesn't get cheaper if I transport Sniper-Scouts with it either, after all.

LunaHound wrote:Dont worry guys, by the next Guard codex is released, Vendetta will be nerfed to hell.

They are only OP because GW wants to sell the new shinny plastic kit back then

They don't even make a Vendetta kit. Your augment is invalid.

DarknessEternal wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Dont worry guys, by the next Guard codex is released, Vendetta will be nerfed to hell.

They are only OP because GW wants to sell the new shinny plastic kit back then

They don't even make a Vendetta kit. Your augment is invalid.

How was his augment invalid? he didn't augment anything, plus, Valyries in general are great, not just the vendetta's so his argument was indeed valid

Zwei - you certainly do price a transport based on what it can transport. Why do you think peoplle were excited that you can put termies in a chimera? Because it safeguards your termies for at least *some* shooting.

The Land Raider isn't a transport. It is a heavy tank that happens to be able the carry troops. Like certain SHV can carry troops. But you would't take an Emperor Battle Titan because it can carry 52 Terminators or 104 PA models would you?

Deadshot wrote:The Land Raider isn't a transport. It is a heavy tank that happens to be able the carry troops. Like certain SHV can carry troops. But you would't take an Emperor Battle Titan because it can carry 52 Terminators or 104 PA models would you?

Ofc you would, the LR's main role is the transport option, it's weapons and rules, like PoTMS are suited to the transport for the LR, it's got assault ramp and the ability to carry TH/SS termies across the board for a reason you know!

Fluffwise and concept wise it is a tank. Always intended to be a tank. If it were a transport it would be called The LR APC or Armoured Transport. Having transport options is a bonus.


But, like always, players have found that intention means nothing compared to getting nasty tricks like Tremorstave+Writhing Worldscape, off the top of my head.

DarknessEternal wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Dont worry guys, by the next Guard codex is released, Vendetta will be nerfed to hell.

They are only OP because GW wants to sell the new shinny plastic kit back then

They don't even make a Vendetta kit. Your augment is invalid.

Because its hard to buy Valkyrie kit + FW vendetta bits right -.-?

The arguement is even more valid. A Valk/Detta kit would lose FW expenditure and cut our costs.

Deadshot wrote:The arguement is even more valid. A Valk/Detta kit would lose FW expenditure and cut our costs.

By that theory, then GW will NEVER make a plastic variants to what FW already have.
And we know thats certainly NOT true.

Your theory is unstable due to something you overlooked.
Which is we wouldnt know how well resin valkyrie was selling.

But of course we can assume GW looked into that as a whole, and see the projection of a plastic variant
that will sell.

And sell it did :3

What use would the FW pieces have if the came in a mixed kit? None. And it would still cost what all the big vehicles cost. £41 or their equivilents in other currencies. So GW lose money.

Deadshot wrote:What use would the FW pieces have if the came in a mixed kit? None. And it would still cost what all the big vehicles cost. £41 or their equivilents in other currencies. So GW lose money.

Then why did GW create Trygon and Valkyrie?

Lets not forget
stompa
the 2 super heavy tanks i forgot the names

LunaHound wrote:
the 2 super heavy tanks i forgot the names

Baneblade and Shadowsword?

Valk and Trygon.

Trygon for the codex to sell more. Valk. No clue but probs the same.

Stompa for ease of access. Plus the have different ones on the FW site. With options.


Baneblade and Shadowsword FW kits are actually different designs of them.

Zweischneid wrote: Alot of people pointed out, that Vendettas appear overpriced. Pick a rough equivalent (mostly from Marine armies, as they have similar weapons) for what they pay for a set of three TL-LC (or non-TL as the Predator for example), lack the advantage of fast, lack the advantage of transport capacity, lack the advantage of scout, lack the advantage of being a skimmer, lack the advantage of being able to take squadrons, lack the advantage of beinga skimmer, etc.. yet cost (in the case of the Predator) 35 points more already, an it's apparent that Vendettas are severely underpriced.

You can't just compare units between codices like that, or you get false analogies. You have to compare a unit in the context of its codex with another unit in the context with its codex.

Vendettas may do more damage than predators per-point, but that's because SM have AV13 on the vehicle in an army with T4 Sv3+ and T4 2+/5++ stuff. If a predator doesn't kill it's mark, that's fine because it still has next turn to try again because it's more durable, and the army doesn't need for its target to be taken down RIGHT THEN. If a vendetta doesn't kill its target, it's very possible that whatever you failed to kill will do some pretty serious damage to your stuff. The vendetta is a bigger cannon, but its in a glassier army. You can't just look at one without the other.

Otherwise, it's like saying that it's unfair that guard get vendettas when there isn't something like it in the SM codex is like saying that it's unfair that SM get terminators because there isn't anything like the guard codex.

Zweischneid wrote: Also, you cannot price vehicles on the units they carry. TH/SS-Terminators are great. They are also a lot more expensive than Guardsman. The advantage of the TH/SS Terminators are paid for in the cost of the infantry, not their transport. A Landraider doesn't get cheaper if I transport Sniper-Scouts with it either, after all.

You absolutely can price transports by the vehicles that they carry. Codices are internally balanced within themselves, even if they're not 100% with other codecies. Don't tell me that vendettas would be as cheap if the guard had the ability to put khorne berzerkers in them, or that khorne berzerkers wouldn't get a big price hike if they were able to take a vendetta as a transport.

A land raider may not get cheaper if you chose not to put good units in it, because you always have the option of putting good units in. In the case of the guard, they don't have the option of putting good units in, which is why the transport itself is so cheap.

Vendettas are for sure one of the best fast attack options in the game. They pack a serious punch, take vets into combat and are survivable. What more would you want?

starwolf117 wrote:Vendettas are for sure one of the best fast attack options in the game. They pack a serious punch, take vets into combat and are survivable. What more would you want?

You'd want them to look cool! Wait...they do!

Also, an 8

So vendettas do in fact get SMF cover for scout moving flat out?

That's rich...

I wouldn't listen to your friend.

Air Cav lists are absolutely terrifying to play against. Vend's throw out obscene amounts of Dakka on their own too.

9. Outflank? Fast Flyer? Doesn't compete for a crowded HS slot? TL LC? What's not to like, rules wise. The only annoying thing about them is that they're kinda fat, so even with 5th ed "everybody and their uncle gets cover" rules sometimes they can't claim cover. Milage varies based on individual tables but I'm guessing most average tables aren't too fancy with huge ruins and the like.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Sure, but if you bubble wrap the russes its a minimal risk. And manticores are nice, but only ap 4. Ditto with hydras, (which i personally dont like.) Vendettas compete with hellhounds, which are better anti horde. I usually run 2 vendettas, a hellhound, a vanilla russ, a demolisher, and a manticore.

This is how I run my fast attack and heavy support, with or without the hellhound depending on the points. I find its a great combo.

Smitty0305 wrote:

Joey wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Joey wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:

Joey wrote:They're delicate, difficult to get cover from, and highly visible. Personally I prefer more durable alternatives but they seem highly-rated on here.

Your definition of durability is bad. A Vandetta has the ability to move 24" away, as well as the ability to move 12" and shoot a weapon. Any other "more durable tank" has problems with moving away form incomming fire, and is much more prone to getting assaulted.

A good army will have plenty of S8/9 Anti-Tank weapons. The vendetta will draw plenty of fire.

Yes. Vendettas suck, because people shoot at them.

Taking down an AV12 flier is a hell of a lot easier than taking out an AV 14 Russ.

Not really because with a Rus's lack of mobility its alot easier to assault them with a chain/power fist against rear armor where it hasnt moved, because if it does move 12 it cant shoot. Its also alot easier to get within melta range for a rus

The vandetta on the other hand is cheaper, has more firepower, and has the ability to avoid assault. And the Rus is about 50 points more, and takes up a heavy support slot, while the vandetta takes up a fast attack slot.

Also, remember that the Russ generally doesn't get to move 12 inches anyway. LB means it gets to move 6+d6 if it cruises.

8 Because the are good for taking out vechiles and character but they loose one of the points for poorish armour and another because they get taken out really quickly.

Gaunt32 wrote:8 Because the are good for taking out vechiles and character but they loose one of the points for poorish armour and another because they get taken out really quickly.

Gaunt32 wrote:8 Because the are good for taking out vechiles and character but they loose one of the points for poorish armour and another because they get taken out really quickly.

Just before the thread gets.locked for necromancy, this is the guy I mentioned in the OP who has then since changed his.mind. Thanks for.reading. Which.Mod will lock? (rhetorical question)

9 out of 10.

They are an amazing vehicle: good firepower, good armor, amazing mobility, scout, transport ability, TL weapons, amazing point cost.

Only a few things keep it from being 10 our of 10.

Firstly, they are SO good, they're never allowed to live very long. While they have very decent armor for their point cost, it by no means is unassailable by focused, dedicated AT firepower. When looking at a Guard army from a target-priority standpoint, they are pretty much the first thing it make sense to target. Russes have AV 14, while Chimeras are the exact same armor value, but have FAR less firepower, and the Arty pieces are generally less reliable in what they hit, plus also more likely to be sporting a cover save and Camo-Netting. That sweet spot right on the top of the 'stuff you should probably kill' pyramid generally means they never are around quite as long as you'd like them to be.

The only other thing that keeps them from being a 10 is quite simply their cost per model $-wise. 200ish bucks for 3 of them is a pretty big investment.

9 to 9.5. Excellent anti-tank, okay transport, fire magnet. I really appreciate my vendettas in every game I play them in.