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Icemyn wrote:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:

Icemyn wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

Icemyn wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:

Boarding Plank

"Orks often employ hinged planks that allow them to make daring assaults on nearby vehicles. A boarding plank allows a single embarked Ork to make its close combat attacks against an enemy vehicle within 2" exactly as the Ork was disembarked and charging provided neither vehicle has moved more than 12" "

Again here is the BP's actual rules.
Can you make CC attacks on your opponents turn? Yes. Permission granted.

If you believe that it can be used on your own turn there is no restriction prevention use on your opponents turn.

It doesn't say you can make CC attacks on your opponents turn. Doesn't say it anywhere in what you quoted. No permission was granted.

I dont know if we are reading the same quote. Allows a single ork to make CC attacks, allows is literally right there.

But you cannot declare that during your opponents turn, you may make the attacks but not outside the regular structure of the game.

Can you make your attacks yes
can you declare those attacks on another players turn No, because that is the structure of the game.

Actual Rules quote please. Because you are literally saying you cannot fight back in CC during another players turn.

You are not engaged in combat which is the only time you can attack on your opponents turn. This rule has no specificity to timing which means it has not granted any permission, if anything (assuming we ingore the disembarking and assaulting only able to be done on your turn) is the rule does nothing as it never specifies when it can be used.

Not engaged, no attacks on your opponents turn. You can't disembark and assault on opponents turn. Wargear does not work, nothing says it does.

There also seems to be alot of confusing between making a close combat attack, and an actual round of combat.

You're activating a piece of wargear to make an attack. Just an attack, nothing more. The opponent doesn't fight back, combat results are not determined, no sweeping advances etc.

It's an attack, it's not close combat. If it was close combat you could do it in your opponents turn. It isn't.

Icemyn wrote:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:

Icemyn wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

Icemyn wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:

Boarding Plank

"Orks often employ hinged planks that allow them to make daring assaults on nearby vehicles. A boarding plank allows a single embarked Ork to make its close combat attacks against an enemy vehicle within 2" exactly as the Ork was disembarked and charging provided neither vehicle has moved more than 12" "

Again here is the BP's actual rules.
Can you make CC attacks on your opponents turn? Yes. Permission granted.

If you believe that it can be used on your own turn there is no restriction prevention use on your opponents turn.

It doesn't say you can make CC attacks on your opponents turn. Doesn't say it anywhere in what you quoted. No permission was granted.

I dont know if we are reading the same quote. Allows a single ork to make CC attacks, allows is literally right there.

But you cannot declare that during your opponents turn, you may make the attacks but not outside the regular structure of the game.

Can you make your attacks yes
can you declare those attacks on another players turn No, because that is the structure of the game.

Actual Rules quote please. Because you are literally saying you cannot fight back in CC during another players turn.

No i'm not because in the rules combat is resolved by specifically stating "these models" may attack, that is how CC is resolved and is resolved after the assault phase.

For it to work on your opponents turn it would need to say:

"Orks often employ hinged planks that allow them to make daring assaults on nearby vehicles. A boarding plank allows a single embarked Ork to make its close combat attacks against an enemy vehicle within 2" exactly as the Ork was in BtB contact and engaged in combat with it provided neither vehicle has moved more than 12"

If the rule said this, then you would be able to make an argument that you can use it on the opponents assault phase as then the rule is using the combat mechanics for being BtB and engaged in your opponents turn opposed to the mechanics for disembarking and assaulting which si only your turn.

But without specificity of the phase it may be used and 'implying' when it can be used, technically the plank does nothing which is where this argument goes if you try to use it on the opponent's turn.

So we are all finally coming around to what I said on page one. which is this piece of wargear does nothing? Great we all win the internet.

My point these last few pages has been that once you allow it be used at all what keeps you from using it during the opponents turn. The answer is obviously nothing as all the logical leaps that are being made to allow it to work would have to apply during the opponents turn.

Icemyn wrote:So we are all finally coming around to what I said on page one. which is this piece of wargear does nothing? Great we all win the internet.

My point these last few pages has been that once you allow it be used at all what keeps you from using it during the opponents turn. The answer is obviously nothing as all the logical leaps that are being made to allow it to work would have to apply during the opponents turn.

No, the logical leaps do not allow it to be used on the opponents turn. The logical leaps allow it to be used on your turn as that is the only time you may dismebark and assault is on your own turn. Nothing in the rule specifies otherwise or gives permission for the opponents turn as youa re not making simple CC attacks and are not engaged in combat which is required for you to attack on your opponents turn.

nkelsch wrote:

Icemyn wrote:So we are all finally coming around to what I said on page one. which is this piece of wargear does nothing? Great we all win the internet.

My point these last few pages has been that once you allow it be used at all what keeps you from using it during the opponents turn. The answer is obviously nothing as all the logical leaps that are being made to allow it to work would have to apply during the opponents turn.

No, the logical leaps do not allow it to be used on the opponents turn. The logical leaps allow it to be used on your turn as that is the only time you may dismebark and assault is on your own turn. Nothing in the rule specifies otherwise or gives permission for the opponents turn as youa re not making simple CC attacks and are not engaged in combat which is required for you to attack on your opponents turn.

Maybe you missed the part where you are never disembarking or assaulting?

The disembarking bit it is so you can pretend base contact and the assaulting bit is for an extra attack.

grendel083 wrote:There also seems to be alot of confusing between making a close combat attack, and an actual round of combat.

You're activating a piece of wargear to make an attack. Just an attack, nothing more. The opponent doesn't fight back, combat results are not determined, no sweeping advances etc.

It's an attack, it's not close combat. If it was close combat you could do it in your opponents turn. It isn't.

thank you

Icemyn wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

Icemyn wrote:So we are all finally coming around to what I said on page one. which is this piece of wargear does nothing? Great we all win the internet.

My point these last few pages has been that once you allow it be used at all what keeps you from using it during the opponents turn. The answer is obviously nothing as all the logical leaps that are being made to allow it to work would have to apply during the opponents turn.

No, the logical leaps do not allow it to be used on the opponents turn. The logical leaps allow it to be used on your turn as that is the only time you may dismebark and assault is on your own turn. Nothing in the rule specifies otherwise or gives permission for the opponents turn as youa re not making simple CC attacks and are not engaged in combat which is required for you to attack on your opponents turn.

Maybe you missed the part where you are never disembarking or assaulting?

Maybe you missed the part where you are not engaged in CC on your opponents turn and nothing in the rule allows you to make the attacks in any phase at all? The only way the rule works is if you follow the rules for disembarking and assaulting which includes the phase in which you may do those actions which is your own assault phase.

If you attemt to argue absurd unsupportable RAI then the RAW is the rule does nothing. The GW FAQ suggest very functional RAI which everyone plays and makes your interpretation wrong and have zero actual support.

Icemyn wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

Icemyn wrote:So we are all finally coming around to what I said on page one. which is this piece of wargear does nothing? Great we all win the internet.

My point these last few pages has been that once you allow it be used at all what keeps you from using it during the opponents turn. The answer is obviously nothing as all the logical leaps that are being made to allow it to work would have to apply during the opponents turn.

No, the logical leaps do not allow it to be used on the opponents turn. The logical leaps allow it to be used on your turn as that is the only time you may dismebark and assault is on your own turn. Nothing in the rule specifies otherwise or gives permission for the opponents turn as youa re not making simple CC attacks and are not engaged in combat which is required for you to attack on your opponents turn.

Maybe you missed the part where you are never disembarking or assaulting?

The disembarking bit it is so you can pretend base contact and the assaulting bit is for an extra attack.

That still doesn't change the fact the wargear is allowing you to make an attack, not fight a round of close combat. Close combat would carry on into an opponents turn, activating an attack through wargear doesn't.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:Were does it say in the rule book that you can activate war gear outside of your turn?

most war gear that I know of falls into CC anyway which has it's own rules allowing for you to activate what you want, or the war gear is always active. But in this instance it is not, and with it being the players turn to declare his actions you may not declare your own unless specifically stated otherwise.

The restrictions exist within the structure of the game itself limiting you to the game turns and phases unless another rule trumps it. Since there is nothing stating you may declare actions on their turn you are restricted to not being able to take said action. I don't know of any rules to break this unless they state to break this, even psychic powers specifically state that they may be used on any turn, (but shooting powers are restricted to the shooting phase)


(and I do not advise waiting lol at work lol)

Iron halo, is war gear. are you saying that if i shoot a lascannon at a model with the iron halo that the opponent can not use his war gear to make a save?

huh i have been playing 40k wrong all this time

You don't activate Iron halo, it has an effect that allows you to make a save. If the boarding plank stated any vehicle within 2" takes the number of attacks equal to one embarked ork and useing the same profile..then yes it would work.

You don't "activate" Boarding planks either they have an effect which allow you to make CC attacks.

@nkelsh: Your first line in your first paragraph is an agreement with me, worded in a way to sound like an epiphany of yours or that I somehow disagree.

And your second paragraph, idk what you are trying to say truthfully. Looks like more of the same RAW = Broken, RAI = Works the way I say it does.

@ the 3 of you: Once you make the logical leap that allows you to use this wargear on your own turn, what is it that stops you from using it on your opponents turn. And please stop saying anything to do with disembarking or assaulting as you are not required to do either of those things.

On your own turn you are allowed to declare assaults.

In your opponent's turn you are only allowed to continue them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Linking Counter-attack is a lark, btw.

It DOES have a trigger that can only happen on the opponent's turn.

kirsanth wrote:On your own turn you are allowed to declare assaults.

In your opponent's turn you are only allowed to continue them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Linking Counter-attack is a lark, btw.

It DOES have a trigger that can only happen on the opponent's turn.

No it is not lark it is the same thing. You are not actually assaulting you are only acting as if assaulting. Unless you think the as if disembarking is actual disembarking.

You are given permission to do so with counter attack. In the actual rules.

That is why it is a lark.

Trance_Phoenix wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:Were does it say in the rule book that you can activate war gear outside of your turn?

most war gear that I know of falls into CC anyway which has it's own rules allowing for you to activate what you want, or the war gear is always active. But in this instance it is not, and with it being the players turn to declare his actions you may not declare your own unless specifically stated otherwise.

The restrictions exist within the structure of the game itself limiting you to the game turns and phases unless another rule trumps it. Since there is nothing stating you may declare actions on their turn you are restricted to not being able to take said action. I don't know of any rules to break this unless they state to break this, even psychic powers specifically state that they may be used on any turn, (but shooting powers are restricted to the shooting phase)


(and I do not advise waiting lol at work lol)

Iron halo, is war gear. are you saying that if i shoot a lascannon at a model with the iron halo that the opponent can not use his war gear to make a save?

huh i have been playing 40k wrong all this time

You don't activate Iron halo, it has an effect that allows you to make a save. If the boarding plank stated any vehicle within 2" takes the number of attacks equal to one embarked ork and useing the same profile..then yes it would work.

well if i have a kff does that wargear cease to function on the opponents turn also?

kirsanth wrote:You are given permission to do so with counter attack. In the actual rules.

That is why it is a lark.

Now you lost me so you agree that you are not actually assaulting, but that you are given a trigger
which allows you to act "as if assaulting".
And Boarding plank doesnt have any trigger RAW so you can't use it.
Is that your position?

Then again I say to you, there is no trigger to allow you to use BP on your turn much less theirs and the BP does nothing. But, once you allow it to be used what stops it from being used on the opponents turn. As shown by CA you can most certainly be "as if assaulting" on the opponents turn.

any Special CC weapon do those also cease to function?

thought not.

No. I am saying you have permission to assault in your turn. The boarding plank allows the assault to be declared along side those rules because there is literally no other way to use it.

You never have permission to assault in the opponent's phase - which is what that wargear modifies, not adds.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:any Special CC weapon do those also cease to function?

thought not.

No, because you have permission to use them in close combat, and permission to perform close combat attacks during your opponents assault phase if he has a unit involved in a combat with yours.

Are you going to come up with a valid example? Thought not.

kirsanth wrote:No. I am saying you have permission to assault in your turn. The boarding plank allows the assault to be declared along side those rules because there is literally no other way to use it.

You never have permission to assault in the opponent's phase - which is what that wargear modifies, not adds.

You do have permission to assault in your turn, but that doesnt matter as the BP does not require it. The only requirement is that you be within 2" of a vehicle that didnt move faster than cruising speed and that you have an ork on board. Those are the only 2 requirements. The disembarked and charging(not assaulting) is not a requirement only a description of how to carry out the attacks.

kirsanth wrote:No. I am saying you have permission to assault in your turn. The boarding plank allows the assault to be declared along side those rules because there is literally no other way to use it.

You never have permission to assault in the opponent's phase - which is what that wargear modifies, not adds.

Agree with this. Also again the counter-attack has been taken out of context. At no point ever does counter-attack give you permission to be 'as if assaulting'. You get a bonus attack the same as if you assaulted. There is a huge difference. But what it does show is an example of an ability being used in an opponents turn because it grants specific permission.

Icemyn wrote: The only requirement is that you be within 2" of a vehicle that didnt move faster than cruising speed and that you have an ork on board. Those are the only additional 2 requirements

Fixed, since you missed my point. Apparently deliberate, but there it is anyway.

Icemyn wrote:

kirsanth wrote:No. I am saying you have permission to assault in your turn. The boarding plank allows the assault to be declared along side those rules because there is literally no other way to use it.

You never have permission to assault in the opponent's phase - which is what that wargear modifies, not adds.

You do have permission to assault in your turn, but that doesnt matter as the BP does not require it. The only requirement is that you be within 2" of a vehicle that didnt move faster than cruising speed and that you have an ork on board. Those are the only 2 requirements. The disembarked and charging(not assaulting) is not a requirement only a description of how to carry out the attacks.

Again it's an attack. You're given permission to have an attack only. Not the rest of close combat, not being locked in, and not fighting back in an opponents turn. Just the attack.

grendel083 wrote:

kirsanth wrote:No. I am saying you have permission to assault in your turn. The boarding plank allows the assault to be declared along side those rules because there is literally no other way to use it.

You never have permission to assault in the opponent's phase - which is what that wargear modifies, not adds.

Agree with this. Also again the counter-attack has been taken out of context. At no point ever does counter-attack give you permission to be 'as if assaulting'. You get a bonus attack the same as if you assaulted. There is a huge difference. But what it does show is an example of an ability being used in an opponents turn because it grants specific permission.

The trigger for it is the opponent assaulting you. Which is why it is a lark.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:Were does it say in the rule book that you can activate war gear outside of your turn?

most war gear that I know of falls into CC anyway which has it's own rules allowing for you to activate what you want, or the war gear is always active. But in this instance it is not, and with it being the players turn to declare his actions you may not declare your own unless specifically stated otherwise.

The restrictions exist within the structure of the game itself limiting you to the game turns and phases unless another rule trumps it. Since there is nothing stating you may declare actions on their turn you are restricted to not being able to take said action. I don't know of any rules to break this unless they state to break this, even psychic powers specifically state that they may be used on any turn, (but shooting powers are restricted to the shooting phase)


(and I do not advise waiting lol at work lol)

Iron halo, is war gear. are you saying that if i shoot a lascannon at a model with the iron halo that the opponent can not use his war gear to make a save?

huh i have been playing 40k wrong all this time

You don't activate Iron halo, it has an effect that allows you to make a save. If the boarding plank stated any vehicle within 2" takes the number of attacks equal to one embarked ork and useing the same profile..then yes it would work.

well if i have a kff does that wargear cease to function on the opponents turn also?

No because the kff is an always active war gear granting a cover save to units, saves follow their own rules.
any more stupid questions?

how about a zoenthropes toxic cloud? same answer, and for being assaulted has a specific rule allowing it to take effect.

You cannot do something on your opponents turn unless specifically stated, what can you do on your opponents turn that is not specifically stated.

CC attacks are, saves are, psychic attacks are.

You don't get to do things on your opponents turn unless otherwise stated, you can make saves, activate some psychic powers, resolve CC. You cannot move, make attacks or declare actions.

A better way to explain is this

kff grants these units a cover save
when using kff
are my units in range? YES
may I make a save during this phase?YES
May i use the save from the kff?YES

boarding plank allows you to make the attacks for a model as if it were charging if within 2" and niether vehicle has moved more than 12"

Am I within 2" YES
Has either vehicle moved 12" NO
Can I make an attack? "No it is not my phase and combat is not being resolved as I am embarked"

grendel083 wrote:[ Also again the counter-attack has been taken out of context. At no point ever does counter-attack give you permission to be 'as if assaulting'. .

Actually that is exactly what it does "exactly as if they too had assaulted". At one point GW FAQ allowed Space Wolves to have Furious charge and all attack bonuses associated with assaulting. It was only in a later FAQ that this was retracted and the FC bonus was taken away. Obviously that isnt the way it is now but they are treated as if assaulting none the less, they just don't benefit fully for doing so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kirsanth wrote:

grendel083 wrote:

kirsanth wrote:No. I am saying you have permission to assault in your turn. The boarding plank allows the assault to be declared along side those rules because there is literally no other way to use it.

You never have permission to assault in the opponent's phase - which is what that wargear modifies, not adds.

Agree with this. Also again the counter-attack has been taken out of context. At no point ever does counter-attack give you permission to be 'as if assaulting'. You get a bonus attack the same as if you assaulted. There is a huge difference. But what it does show is an example of an ability being used in an opponents turn because it grants specific permission.

The trigger for it is the opponent assaulting you. Which is why it is a lark.

And the Trigger for BP's as if assaulting is using the BP. Both are triggered as if assaultings. I truly do not understand why you believe it is "lark". Neither is actual assaulting.

Trance_Phoenix wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:Were does it say in the rule book that you can activate war gear outside of your turn?

most war gear that I know of falls into CC anyway which has it's own rules allowing for you to activate what you want, or the war gear is always active. But in this instance it is not, and with it being the players turn to declare his actions you may not declare your own unless specifically stated otherwise.

The restrictions exist within the structure of the game itself limiting you to the game turns and phases unless another rule trumps it. Since there is nothing stating you may declare actions on their turn you are restricted to not being able to take said action. I don't know of any rules to break this unless they state to break this, even psychic powers specifically state that they may be used on any turn, (but shooting powers are restricted to the shooting phase)


(and I do not advise waiting lol at work lol)

Iron halo, is war gear. are you saying that if i shoot a lascannon at a model with the iron halo that the opponent can not use his war gear to make a save?

huh i have been playing 40k wrong all this time

You don't activate Iron halo, it has an effect that allows you to make a save. If the boarding plank stated any vehicle within 2" takes the number of attacks equal to one embarked ork and useing the same profile..then yes it would work.

well if i have a kff does that wargear cease to function on the opponents turn also?

No because the kff is an always active war gear granting a cover save to units, saves follow their own rules.
any more stupid questions?

how about a zoenthropes toxic cloud? same answer, and for being assaulted has a specific rule allowing it to take effect.

You cannot do something on your opponents turn unless specifically stated, what can you do on your opponents turn that is not specifically stated.

CC attacks are, saves are, psychic attacks are.

You don't get to do things on your opponents turn unless otherwise stated, you can make saves, activate some psychic powers, resolve CC. You cannot move, make attacks or declare actions.

really?

so i cant use my wrecking ball either huh? o wait i most certainly can

here is some verbatim.

"orks love demolition almost as much as they love war on the battlefield, ork wagon crews delight in smashing great spiked "wreckin' balls" into enemy vehicles and infantry. A vehicle with a wreckin' ball causes a strength 9 hit upon one unengaged enemy unit within 2" of the wreckin' ball at the beginning of the assault phase on the roll of a 4+. the vehicle may use not use its wreckin' ball if it has moved more than 12" that turn."

yes it really does say "may use not use..."

this clearly defines assault phase, so i can clearly use it on your turn.
now if there was a BRB rule saying i could not use wargear in an opponets turn then i could not.
find me that rule.

Trance_Phoenix wrote:
Am I within 2" YES
Has either vehicle moved 12" NO
Can I make an attack? "No it is not my phase and combat is not being resolved as I am embarked"

And being embarked does not matter as BP states "as if disembarked". Not being your phase is not an issue as permission being granted to use it during your own turn would allow permission during theirs.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:Were does it say in the rule book that you can activate war gear outside of your turn?

most war gear that I know of falls into CC anyway which has it's own rules allowing for you to activate what you want, or the war gear is always active. But in this instance it is not, and with it being the players turn to declare his actions you may not declare your own unless specifically stated otherwise.

The restrictions exist within the structure of the game itself limiting you to the game turns and phases unless another rule trumps it. Since there is nothing stating you may declare actions on their turn you are restricted to not being able to take said action. I don't know of any rules to break this unless they state to break this, even psychic powers specifically state that they may be used on any turn, (but shooting powers are restricted to the shooting phase)


(and I do not advise waiting lol at work lol)

Iron halo, is war gear. are you saying that if i shoot a lascannon at a model with the iron halo that the opponent can not use his war gear to make a save?

huh i have been playing 40k wrong all this time

You don't activate Iron halo, it has an effect that allows you to make a save. If the boarding plank stated any vehicle within 2" takes the number of attacks equal to one embarked ork and useing the same profile..then yes it would work.

well if i have a kff does that wargear cease to function on the opponents turn also?

No because the kff is an always active war gear granting a cover save to units, saves follow their own rules.
any more stupid questions?

how about a zoenthropes toxic cloud? same answer, and for being assaulted has a specific rule allowing it to take effect.

You cannot do something on your opponents turn unless specifically stated, what can you do on your opponents turn that is not specifically stated.

CC attacks are, saves are, psychic attacks are.

You don't get to do things on your opponents turn unless otherwise stated, you can make saves, activate some psychic powers, resolve CC. You cannot move, make attacks or declare actions.

really?

so i cant use my wrecking ball either huh? o wait i most certainly can

here is some verbatim.

"orks love demolition almost as much as they love war on the battlefield, ork wagon crews delight in smashing great spiked "wreckin' balls" into enemy vehicles and infantry. A vehicle with a wreckin' ball causes a strength 9 hit upon one unengaged enemy unit within 2" of the wreckin' ball at the beginning of the assault phase on the roll of a 4+. the vehicle may use not use its wreckin' ball if it has moved more than 12" that turn."

yes it really does say "may use not use..."

this clearly defines assault phase, so i can clearly use it on your turn.
now if there was a BRB rule saying i could not use wargear in an opponets turn then i could not.
find me that rule.

You do not have an assault phase on their turn. They have an assault phase.

Player 1 turn, turn is broken into phases
Player 2 turn turn is broken into phases
end of round

If the players both took actions on the same turn as in movement phase everyone moves, and assault phase everyone may assault you may be able to, but you cannot because you do not have an assault phase on their turn.

If this was not the case in a 4 or 5 player free for all it would allow for multiple attacks against one unit on each of thier turns.