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Trance_Phoenix wrote:
You do not have an assault phase on their turn. They have an assault phase.

Player 1 turn, turn is broken into phases
Player 2 turn turn is broken into phases
end of round

If the players both took actions on the same turn as in movement phase everyone moves, and assault phase everyone may assault you may be able to, but you cannot because you do not have an assault phase on their turn.

I hope you are just trolling at this point because that is all that makes sense.
So Empyrean Brain Mines don't work when you are charged?
Mindshackle Scarabs doesn't work on the opponents turn?
Every other piece of wargear that references the Assault Phase only works on your own?
Really?

Well if you want to treat it as disembarked and fighting a round of combat, then the oponent can fight back, potentialy kill the Nob and procede to destroy the mob and their truck in a sweeping advance. No?

The wargear allows for an attack, not the rest of close combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Icemyn wrote:I hope you are just trolling at this point because that is all that makes sense.
So Empyrean Brain Mines don't work when you are charged?
Mindshackle Scarabs doesn't work on the opponents turn?
Every other piece of wargear that references the Assault Phase only works on your own?
Really?

You're still giveing examples of things that have been given speciffic permission. Where is the boarding planks speciffic permission?

Icemyn wrote:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:
You do not have an assault phase on their turn. They have an assault phase.

Player 1 turn, turn is broken into phases
Player 2 turn turn is broken into phases
end of round

If the players both took actions on the same turn as in movement phase everyone moves, and assault phase everyone may assault you may be able to, but you cannot because you do not have an assault phase on their turn.

I hope you are just trolling at this point because that is all that makes sense.
So Empyrean Brain Mines don't work when you are charged?
Mindshackle Scarabs doesn't work on the opponents turn?
Every other piece of wargear that references the Assault Phase only works on your own?
Really?

Each of those I bet would specify a situation or rule allowing them to be used, such as close combat or spefic instances such as the opponents turn. I have played this way for years against multiple armies and never once was a debate or a power not usable.

Such as tau fletchette discharges have a specific rules set stating they can deal a wound on a 4+ to an attacking enemy model. This is a specific rule that states when it can be used outside of basic turn structure.

Trance_Phoenix wrote:You do not have an assault phase on their turn. They have an assault phase.

Player 1 turn, turn is broken into phases
Player 2 turn turn is broken into phases
end of round

If the players both took actions on the same turn as in movement phase everyone moves, and assault phase everyone may assault you may be able to, but you cannot because you do not have an assault phase on their turn.

If this was not the case in a 4 or 5 player free for all it would allow for multiple attacks against one unit on each of thier turns.

this game was designed for 1v1 any team game that your are describing requires special rules to be played or things to be out of sequence and so on.

grendel083 wrote:Well if you want to treat it as disembarked and fighting a round of combat, then the oponent can fight back, potentialy kill the Nob and procede to destroy the mob and their truck in a sweeping advance. No?

The wargear allows for an attack, not the rest of close combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Icemyn wrote:I hope you are just trolling at this point because that is all that makes sense.
So Empyrean Brain Mines don't work when you are charged?
Mindshackle Scarabs doesn't work on the opponents turn?
Every other piece of wargear that references the Assault Phase only works on your own?
Really?

You're still giveing examples of things that have been given speciffic permission. Where is the boarding planks speciffic permission?

Grendel I wasn't talking about specific permission I was talking about wargear used in opponents assault phase. Just an FYI.
Also the wargear you are looking for would be Wrecking Ball as Godlyness pointed out. It only states Assault Phase not whose no timing for when during the Assault phase just that it is allowed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:

Icemyn wrote:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:
You do not have an assault phase on their turn. They have an assault phase.

Player 1 turn, turn is broken into phases
Player 2 turn turn is broken into phases
end of round

If the players both took actions on the same turn as in movement phase everyone moves, and assault phase everyone may assault you may be able to, but you cannot because you do not have an assault phase on their turn.

I hope you are just trolling at this point because that is all that makes sense.
So Empyrean Brain Mines don't work when you are charged?
Mindshackle Scarabs doesn't work on the opponents turn?
Every other piece of wargear that references the Assault Phase only works on your own?
Really?

Each of those I bet would specify a situation or rule allowing them to be used, such as close combat or spefic instances such as the opponents turn. I have played this way for years against multiple armies and never once was a debate or a power not usable.

Such as tau fletchette discharges have a specific rules set stating they can deal a wound on a 4+ to an attacking enemy model. This is a specific rule that states when it can be used outside of basic turn structure.

Nope they just say assault phase after moves have been made. Doesn't say opponents.

grendel083 wrote:Well if you want to treat it as disembarked and fighting a round of combat, then the oponent can fight back, potentialy kill the Nob and procede to destroy the mob and their truck in a sweeping advance. No?

The wargear allows for an attack, not the rest of close combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Icemyn wrote:I hope you are just trolling at this point because that is all that makes sense.
So Empyrean Brain Mines don't work when you are charged?
Mindshackle Scarabs doesn't work on the opponents turn?
Every other piece of wargear that references the Assault Phase only works on your own?
Really?

You're still giveing examples of things that have been given speciffic permission. Where is the boarding planks speciffic permission?

its been stated that no Assaults are launched and the embarked ork is not "Stuck in" and the only vehicle that would be able to attack back would be a Walker. BUT there is a FAQ that clarifies that. it was posted earlier

Icemyn wrote:

grendel083 wrote:Well if you want to treat it as disembarked and fighting a round of combat, then the oponent can fight back, potentialy kill the Nob and procede to destroy the mob and their truck in a sweeping advance. No?

The wargear allows for an attack, not the rest of close combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Icemyn wrote:I hope you are just trolling at this point because that is all that makes sense.
So Empyrean Brain Mines don't work when you are charged?
Mindshackle Scarabs doesn't work on the opponents turn?
Every other piece of wargear that references the Assault Phase only works on your own?
Really?

You're still giveing examples of things that have been given speciffic permission. Where is the boarding planks speciffic permission?

Grendel I wasn't talking about specific permission I was talking about wargear used in opponents assault phase. Just an FYI.
Also the wargear you are looking for would be Wrecking Ball as Godlyness pointed out. It only states Assault Phase not whose no timing for when during the Assault phase just that it is allowed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:

Icemyn wrote:

Trance_Phoenix wrote:
You do not have an assault phase on their turn. They have an assault phase.

Player 1 turn, turn is broken into phases
Player 2 turn turn is broken into phases
end of round

If the players both took actions on the same turn as in movement phase everyone moves, and assault phase everyone may assault you may be able to, but you cannot because you do not have an assault phase on their turn.

I hope you are just trolling at this point because that is all that makes sense.
So Empyrean Brain Mines don't work when you are charged?
Mindshackle Scarabs doesn't work on the opponents turn?
Every other piece of wargear that references the Assault Phase only works on your own?
Really?

Each of those I bet would specify a situation or rule allowing them to be used, such as close combat or spefic instances such as the opponents turn. I have played this way for years against multiple armies and never once was a debate or a power not usable.

Such as tau fletchette discharges have a specific rules set stating they can deal a wound on a 4+ to an attacking enemy model. This is a specific rule that states when it can be used outside of basic turn structure.

Nope they just say assault phase after moves have been made. Doesn't say opponents.

In which case it states how to use it and what you can do with it. For the boarding plank you may there is no such rule stating that you make an attack on your opponents turn.

Does a fletchette discharged then allow for them to hit your units in their assault phase?

You look at what phase, if it is their enemies you may do nothing, but every rule I have ever read will state how to use it in response. Every single one, will state how to use that rule in response if it is not in response and it is not within your turn..then bugger off and wait for your turn.

As does the Wrecking ball which you seem to be up in arms about with this whole player assault phase thing you have created. Only the wrecking ball just says assault phase.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:its been stated that no Assaults are launched and the embarked ork is not "Stuck in" and the only vehicle that would be able to attack back would be a Walker. BUT there is a FAQ that clarifies that. it was posted earlier

Exactly, and yet people continue to then treat it as an assault. An assault comprises of many parts, the hitting bit (the only bit the plank allows you to do) is only part of the assault. So if it's not an assault, why are people trying to carry it on in an opponenets turn like an assault?

It's an attack with a piece of wargear. And no wargear can be used in an opponents turn without specific permission. All the wargear examples so far have been given permission. The Boarding Plank hasn't, and even in your own turn you have to assume you can use it.

Edit: And the Wreckin' Ball, unlike the Boarding plank, does say when it should be used (as does Flechette). Don't know why they're being brought up.

grendel083 wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:its been stated that no Assaults are launched and the embarked ork is not "Stuck in" and the only vehicle that would be able to attack back would be a Walker. BUT there is a FAQ that clarifies that. it was posted earlier

Exactly, and yet people continue to then treat it as an assault. An assault comprises of many parts, the hitting bit (the only bit the plank allows you to do) is only part of the assault. So if it's not an assault, why are people trying to carry it on in an opponenets turn like an assault?

It's an attack with a piece of wargear. And no wargear can be used in an opponents turn without specific permission. All the wargear examples so far have been given permission. The Boarding Plank hasn't, and even in your own turn you have to assume you can use it.

Everyone please listen to these words

grendel083 wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:its been stated that no Assaults are launched and the embarked ork is not "Stuck in" and the only vehicle that would be able to attack back would be a Walker. BUT there is a FAQ that clarifies that. it was posted earlier

Exactly, and yet people continue to then treat it as an assault. An assault comprises of many parts, the hitting bit (the only bit the plank allows you to do) is only part of the assault. So if it's not an assault, why are people trying to carry it on in an opponenets turn like an assault?

It's an attack with a piece of wargear. And no wargear can be used in an opponents turn without specific permission. All the wargear examples so far have been given permission. The Boarding Plank hasn't, and even in your own turn you have to assume you can use it.

That is exactly my point Grendel, if you can use it during your own turn what stops you from using it in theirs? The answer is nothing. Once you clean up the wording to allow it to be used at all it allows use during the opponents phase.

Corrected wording could look something like this (Speculation at best):

"Orks often employ hinged planks that allow them to make daring assaults on nearby vehicles. A boarding plank can be used during the assault phase and allows a single embarked Ork to make its close combat attacks against an enemy vehicle within 2" exactly as the Ork was disembarked and assaulting provided neither vehicle has moved more than 12

I can agree to that.

grendel083 wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:its been stated that no Assaults are launched and the embarked ork is not "Stuck in" and the only vehicle that would be able to attack back would be a Walker. BUT there is a FAQ that clarifies that. it was posted earlier

Exactly, and yet people continue to then treat it as an assault. An assault comprises of many parts, the hitting bit (the only bit the plank allows you to do) is only part of the assault. So if it's not an assault, why are people trying to carry it on in an opponents turn like an assault?

It's an attack with a piece of wargear. And no wargear can be used in an opponents turn without specific permission. All the wargear examples so far have been given permission. The Boarding Plank hasn't, and even in your own turn you have to assume you can use it.

Edit: And the Wreckin' Ball, unlike the Boarding plank, does say when it should be used (as does Flechette). Don't know why they're being brought up.

the wrecking ball is being brought up due to the fact some people believe that War gear can only be used on you turn.

the wrecking ball states An Assault phase. never declares whose Assault phase.

by raw i can use it in either assault phase. which breaks this unwritten rule that wargear does not work in opponents turns.

Icemyn wrote:That is exactly my point Grendel, if you can use it during your own turn what stops you from using it in theirs? The answer is nothing. Once you clean up the wording to allow it to be used at all it allows use during the opponents phase.

Corrected wording could look something like this (Speculation at best):

"Orks often employ hinged planks that allow them to make daring assaults on nearby vehicles. A boarding plank can be used during the assault phase and allows a single embarked Ork to make its close combat attacks against an enemy vehicle within 2" exactly as the Ork was disembarked and assaulting provided neither vehicle has moved more than 12

Unfortunatly the rules don't work like that. You can't look for something that says 'you can't do that' you have to look for something that says you can. It's the nature of the permissive rules set that this game uses.

Every answer to every question in this game is 'NO'. Unless a rule says 'YES'.
Q. Can I shoot?
A. No. Unless a rules states otherwise (fortuantly there is such a rule, so we are allowed to shoot).

There isn't a rule that says you can't use it in the opponents asault phase. Unfortunatly there isn't a rule that says you can either.

grendel083 wrote:

Icemyn wrote:That is exactly my point Grendel, if you can use it during your own turn what stops you from using it in theirs? The answer is nothing. Once you clean up the wording to allow it to be used at all it allows use during the opponents phase.

Corrected wording could look something like this (Speculation at best):

"Orks often employ hinged planks that allow them to make daring assaults on nearby vehicles. A boarding plank can be used during the assault phase and allows a single embarked Ork to make its close combat attacks against an enemy vehicle within 2" exactly as the Ork was disembarked and assaulting provided neither vehicle has moved more than 12

Unfortunatly the rules don't work like that. You can't look for something that says 'you can't do that' you have to look for something that says you can. It's the nature of the permissive rules set that this game uses.

Every answer to every question in this game is 'NO'. Unless a rule says 'YES'.
Q. Can I shoot?
A. No. Unless a rules states otherwise (fortuantly there is such a rule, so we are allowed to shoot).

There isn't a rule that says you can't use it in the opponents asault phase. Unfortunatly there isn't a rule that says you can either.

Unfortunately you cant use it at all is what you mean.
I am not saying that you can use it during their phase as it is written.
As I have stated from the beginning it can't be used at all.
However, once you change it to work during the controllers turn it would have to work during the opponents turn.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:the wrecking ball is being brought up due to the fact some people believe that War gear can only be used on you turn.

And they'd be right. But the Wreckin' Ball tells us when. In the Assault phase. So for the Wreckin' Ball, yes use it in your opponenets turn

This is a classic example of permissions confusion.

There is no rule, in the brb, that says I can't take all of my opponents models, throw them in a wood chipper, make them into plastic salsa, and serve them to him with tortilla chips.

There is also no rule that says you can't use your boarding plank on your opponents turn.

Everybody wins! (MmMmm plastic salsa!)

Unfortunately the game doesn't work that way.

You have permission to assault an enemy vehicle, within 2" of your plank, as if you were disembarked and charging. You can neither disembark nor charge on your opponents turn. You therefore cannot fulfill the boarding planks special rule... so it doesn't work.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news.

Cottonjaw wrote:This is a classic example of permissions confusion.

There is no rule, in the brb, that says I can't take all of my opponents models, throw them in a wood chipper, make them into plastic salsa, and serve them to him with tortilla chips.

There is also no rule that says you can't use your boarding plank on your opponents turn.

Everybody wins! (MmMmm plastic salsa!)

Unfortunately the game doesn't work that way.

You have permission to assault an enemy vehicle, within 2" of your plank, as if you were disembarked and charging. You can neither disembark nor charge on your opponents turn. You therefore cannot fulfill the boarding planks special rule... so it doesn't work.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news.

Please read the thread. Seriously, everything you said has been covered.

Icemyn wrote:Unfortunately you cant use it at all is what you mean.
I am not saying that you can use it during their phase as it is written.
As I have stated from the beginning it can't be used at all.
However, once you change it to work during the controllers turn it would have to work during the opponents turn.

If we strip it all down and assume the asault phase is the correct time to use it (and take into account we're using a 4th ed codex in 5th ed rules), We're left with using a piece of wargear that allows us to make a special attack in the assault phase. Since we have to follow the few rules we're left with, we have a piece of wargear, which (as with all wargear) unless specified can only be used in our own turn.

The Wrecking ball just says Assault phase, not specified as to whose. yet you just agreed that it works in their assault phase.

This unwritten rule Does Not Exist.

Icemyn, My Autarch is given permission to fire a meltagun. Since all shooting is done in the Shooting phase, why can I not shoot my Meltagun in YOUR Shooting phase? After all, your claim is that you CAN use all wargear in your opponents turn.

Happyjew wrote:Icemyn, My Autarch is given permission to fire a meltagun. Since all shooting is done in the Shooting phase, why can I not shoot my Meltagun in YOUR Shooting phase? After all, your claim is that you CAN use all wargear in your opponents turn.

Actually I never claimed that, I have claimed that wargear being given blanket permission to be used during a phase are unrestricted as to whose phase unless specified. Though I am unsurprised that you would misinterpret that.

Boarding Plank once it has been corrected to function at all, would read similarly to Wrecking Ball and give Assault phase permission for both phases.

Icemyn wrote:Boarding Plank once it has been corrected to function at all, would read similarly to Wrecking Ball and give Assault phase permission for both phases.

We can't assume how a rule would read if corrected. We can only go with what little rules we have.

Unfortunatly we have to be a little loose with the rules to use them at all. If a boarding plank was used in a tournament, and our opponent was TFG he could claim we can't use it. In that case (with TO intervention) we wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

The few rules we have, without trying to guess what a correction would be, is a piece of wargear.

grendel083 wrote:

Icemyn wrote:Boarding Plank once it has been corrected to function at all, would read similarly to Wrecking Ball and give Assault phase permission for both phases.

We can't assume how a rule would read if corrected. We can only go with what little rules we have.

Unfortunatly we have to be a little loose with the rules to use them at all. If a boarding plank was used in a tournament, and our opponent was TFG he could claim we can't use it. In that case (with TO intervention) we wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

The few rules we have, without trying to guess what a correction would be, is a piece of wargear.

I agree with all of what you said.
But, I think you agree at this point that if you correct BP wording for 5th edition to make it work as written it would work in the opponents phase. You nearly said it a few posts ago.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:The Wrecking ball just says Assault phase, not specified as to whose. yet you just agreed that it works in their assault phase.

This unwritten rule Does Not Exist.

It exists, but it is not exactly like it was put forth. It is because of the permissive rule set.

They said "you can not use wargear in your opponents turn" Or something like that.

This is true because of the permissive rule set.

The permissive rule set says you may not do anything unless the rule says you can.

So indeed "you can not use wargear in your opponents turn" unless otherwise specified.


The Boarding Plank does not work in your opponents turn because you can not charge in any phase other than your own assault phase.

DeathReaper wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:The Wrecking ball just says Assault phase, not specified as to whose. yet you just agreed that it works in their assault phase.

This unwritten rule Does Not Exist.

It exists, but it is not exactly like it was put forth. It is because of the permissive rule set.

They said "you can not use wargear in your opponents turn" Or something like that.

This is true because of the permissive rule set.

The permissive rule set says you may not do anything unless the rule says you can.

So indeed "you can not use wargear in your opponents turn" unless otherwise specified.


The Boarding Plank does not work in your opponents turn because you can not charge in any phase other than your own assault phase.

You keep saying that.
Except there is no rule for charging in the BRB so you may never charge.
if you mean assaulting then I will say again you are not actually assaulting.

Icemyn wrote:I agree with all of what you said.
But, I think you agree at this point that if you correct BP wording for 5th edition to make it work as written it would work in the opponents phase. You nearly said it a few posts ago.

Honestly I would like it work in both phases. I'd like a brand new Codex: Orks as well. In the mean time I'm just grateful if my opponent lets me use a boarding plank at all. I wont push that luck by trying to guess what a correction should be.

Codex: Orks is a 4th edition Codex. Use common sense when interpreting rules as such.

Happyjew wrote:Icemyn, My Autarch is given permission to fire a meltagun. Since all shooting is done in the Shooting phase, why can I not shoot my Meltagun in YOUR Shooting phase? After all, your claim is that you CAN use all wargear in your opponents turn.

DeathReaper wrote:

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:The Wrecking ball just says Assault phase, not specified as to whose. yet you just agreed that it works in their assault phase.

This unwritten rule Does Not Exist.

It exists, but it is not exactly like it was put forth. It is because of the permissive rule set.

They said "you can not use wargear in your opponents turn" Or something like that.

This is true because of the permissive rule set.

The permissive rule set says you may not do anything unless the rule says you can.

So indeed "you can not use wargear in your opponents turn" unless otherwise specified.


The Boarding Plank does not work in your opponents turn because you can not charge in any phase other than your own assault phase.

See what happy did there.

Icemyn wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:
It exists, but it is not exactly like it was put forth. It is because of the permissive rule set.

They said "you can not use wargear in your opponents turn" Or something like that.

This is true because of the permissive rule set.

The permissive rule set says you may not do anything unless the rule says you can.

So indeed "you can not use wargear in your opponents turn" unless otherwise specified.


The Boarding Plank does not work in your opponents turn because you can not charge in any phase other than your own assault phase.

You keep saying that.
Except there is no rule for charging in the BRB so you may never charge.
if you mean assaulting then I will say again you are not actually assaulting.

On Page 1 it was clarified that Charging = Assaulting.

Mannahnin wrote:Charging must be read to mean "as if you are assaulting", to mean anything.
You cannot launch an assault in your opponent's turn.

grendel083 wrote:Now bearing in mind you're using a Codex written for 4th Edition rules, where 'charging' really was assaulting.