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He can be put in a transport.

But he is not an IC so he is always solo.

Twiqbal wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:As an Imperial Guard player i just have him charge a blob. He can only kill at best 6 on the charge. Whopie do ho. Your badass monsterous creature killed 6 guardsmen. Please excuse me while the rest of my army blows you away while mephi is tarpitted.

The BA player who uses Meph to target the blob is dumb, if theres even a blob. With IG so often mech'd up, he's even more dangerous.

I know what you're saying, but a BA player will be using him to destroy small squads and larger units, not to assault a a guardsmen blob w/o more troops.

Ive been playing foot guard with leman russ support, so no av 12 tanks. I screen my tanks with blobs, and make sure mephi can only assualt a blob, that can kill him eventually. If he doesnt he gets shot and/or assualted. If he runs hes not a threat. Even mech guard should easily counter him, with all the melta and plasma spam, or even the lascannon spam from vendettas. He doesnt seem that big a threat to my imperial guard. Now to any army lacking high str low ap spam yeah, hes a threat.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Imperial Guard can run him off the table with their OP psyker ability weaken resolve, or tarpit him in a huge wave of units, or all the various artillery, plasma, and melta...

Weaken Resolve is basically meaningless against Meph unless you beat him in combat. The only likely ways to do that are via multiassault or beating him/killing him. They can kill the heck out of him with plasma/melta units, though, especially with orders to make themeselves re-roll to hit or make him re-roll successful cover saves.

Mannahnin wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Imperial Guard can run him off the table with their OP psyker ability weaken resolve, or tarpit him in a huge wave of units, or all the various artillery, plasma, and melta...

Weaken Resolve is basically meaningless against Meph unless you beat him in combat. The only likely ways to do that are via multiassault or beating him/killing him. They can kill the heck out of him with plasma/melta units, though, especially with orders to make themeselves re-roll to hit or make him re-roll successful cover saves.

True enough, I will be honest most of my experience with IG comes from reading the dex, rather than personal playthroughs.

I don't see how I'm the only person who chimed in with TH/SS Terminators. Even if he hits with all 6 attacks they're going to save 2/3 of the time anyway. When they hit they'll knock him down to I1 and ignore his armor and FNP. Hell, they even get to wound him on 2s.

Brother SRM wrote:I don't see how I'm the only person who chimed in with TH/SS Terminators. Even if he hits with all 6 attacks they're going to save 2/3 of the time anyway. When they hit they'll knock him down to I1 and ignore his armor and FNP. Hell, they even get to wound him on 2s.

And how, exactly, are those TH/SS Terminators supposed to get into CC with Meph?

azazel the cat wrote:
And how, exactly, are those TH/SS Terminators supposed to get into CC with Meph?

Land Raider, fleet with Shrike, Storm Raven if you're doing a mirror match, tie up Mephiston with some chaff unit to buy time till they charge in and so on.

he can commandeer a Transport, but he counts as a One Man squad.


Edit- Ninjad by a few hours. XD

Brother SRM wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:
And how, exactly, are those TH/SS Terminators supposed to get into CC with Meph?

Land Raider, fleet with Shrike, Storm Raven if you're doing a mirror match, tie up Mephiston with some chaff unit to buy time till they charge in and so on.

Meph moves faster than a Land Raider.
Storm Ravens typically get shot down turn 1 in my experience
And you can't tie Meph up with chaff, because Meph has no reason to engage with chaff, and chaff cannot catch Mephiston due to his speed. Kinda my whole point: due to his speed, Meph generally has to be shot to death, and that can be very tough for a lot of armies.

Even if Mephiston attacks something that isn't purely chaff, he can't consolidate that far away. Mephiston might be able to fly 12" and run up to 6", but a Land Raider can move 12", have its troops disembark 2", and the cargo can assault out for 6". They can definitely catch him. It's a very specific counter and not every army with TH/SS Termies has a Raider, but he isn't strictly faster than a Land Raider.

As for Storm Ravens getting shot down turn 1, that's just bad luck and positioning. Have them outflank if your opponent has tons of long range AV.

I will agree that he generally has to be shot to death, but there are ways to catch him and beat him in CC with a few very certain units.

Brother SRM wrote:As for Storm Ravens getting shot down turn 1, that's just bad luck and positioning. Have them outflank if your opponent has tons of long range AV.

Storm Ravens can not Outflank.

They generally get shot down turn 1 or 2, due to ML Dev's or Preds with Las/Autocannon., because the SR is only AV 12

But one move is all you really need to get your TH/SS terminators in a great position.

Someone asked earlier what about his fluff I do not like.

This is just my opinion, but it is shared by just about all of my gaming buddies

Mephistons fluff is basically hinting that, if he lives long enough, he will be just as strong as A PRIMARCH. Look for where it talks about him "unlocking more of the geneseeds potential as the years go by"

If you area true WH40k fan, this should make your blood boil.

Anyone else ever seen that meme about Matt Ward wanting to bring back Roboute Guillimen? ......

Mephiston is my favourite Blood Angels character, but I have to admit that Mat Ward's rules in this edition make me a little sad.

That said, at least he's not the Sanguinor.

Oh god... I love herohammer... :O
NOT!

It's true that TH/SS assault termies will kill Meph pretty easily. But then, there's few things they can't kill easily

Quick qeustion about Mephy, where in the codex does it say that he can't join a squad? I can't seem to find anything like that in the codex.

sub-zero wrote:Quick qeustion about Mephy, where in the codex does it say that he can't join a squad? I can't seem to find anything like that in the codex.

He isn't an independent character.

Thus, no squad joining.

sub-zero wrote:Quick qeustion about Mephy, where in the codex does it say that he can't join a squad? I can't seem to find anything like that in the codex.

He counts as a squad by himself. The only way a model can join a squad is if they have the Independent Character USR. Mephiston doesn't have that, so he can't join a squad.

I apologize for sounding redundant, but I don't see what your refering too in the codex.

sub-zero wrote:I apologize for sounding redundant, but I don't see what your refering too in the codex.

Under Mephi's special rules. There is no entry for him being an IC. If you look at Dante you will see IC under his special rules. Allowing him to be attached to a unit. You will see that the sanguinor does not have it either.

Falco wrote:

sub-zero wrote:I apologize for sounding redundant, but I don't see what your refering too in the codex.

Under Mephi's special rules. There is no entry for him being an IC. If you look at Dante you will see IC under his special rules. Allowing him to be attached to a unit. You will see that the sanguinor does not have it either.

I see that now, thank you for the clarification.

It's not in the codex. It's in the rule book. For a unit to be able to join and leave other units, they have to be Independent Characters. Mephiston doesn't have that USR. So he can't join any other units (except he can still get inside of transports). Think of him as a terminator squad. A termy squad can't join a unit of tac marines right? It's because they are a separate unit and units can't join other units. Certain characters can but only because they have the IC USR. If you look through the BA codex, all the named characters have it except Mephiston. That's how it is in pretty much all the codices.


Oh I posted a little too late.

TheCrazyCryptek wrote:Mephiston is only OP and abit much for some games under certain conditions.

Using him in anything under 1000 points is just plain unfair as most armies will have to focus everything they have on him to maybe kill him in one or two turns.

Also, some armies with older Codexes have alot of trouble bringing him down because there AP2 weapons cost way to much(I'm looking at you Tau and Eldar codexes). So, I would say in the spirit of fair play, bringing him against these opponents is non-friendly.

I also want to say, for the record, I HATE his fluff. Its the second stupidest thing I have ever read in a 40k Codex, right after Draigo's fluff.

Eldar can have a cheap unit of meltas, 80pts for 5. They also have great BS. I'd have more than 5 personally, but they can melt Mephie in a single turn (and have). Eldar have easy solutions to him, especially with Runes of Warding around to neuter his psychic abilities. They turn Mephie into their prison-house shower-buddy, or at least should, if the Eldar player is decent at all. Also, regular libbies can kill him, and should have a storm shield, GKs can kill him, BA can razor-spam him, DE can kite him with poison, or long range dark lances on ravagers/raiders, Tau can blast him with plasma, etc, etc. Every army has answers. Mephiston is fine. Hell, take him in a 750pt list if you want. Just means you have less on the table. In fact, here: I'll take 2 units of Fire Dragons in serpents, a Farseer and small units of Guardians with platform weapons (starcannons, probably). You can take Mephie and your 500pts of other models. I see Eldar winning this fight...

timetowaste85 wrote:

TheCrazyCryptek wrote:Mephiston is only OP and abit much for some games under certain conditions.

Using him in anything under 1000 points is just plain unfair as most armies will have to focus everything they have on him to maybe kill him in one or two turns.

Also, some armies with older Codexes have alot of trouble bringing him down because there AP2 weapons cost way to much(I'm looking at you Tau and Eldar codexes). So, I would say in the spirit of fair play, bringing him against these opponents is non-friendly.

I also want to say, for the record, I HATE his fluff. Its the second stupidest thing I have ever read in a 40k Codex, right after Draigo's fluff.

Eldar can have a cheap unit of meltas, 80pts for 5. They also have great BS. I'd have more than 5 personally, but they can melt Mephie in a single turn (and have). Eldar have easy solutions to him, especially with Runes of Warding around to neuter his psychic abilities. They turn Mephie into their prison-house shower-buddy, or at least should, if the Eldar player is decent at all. Also, regular libbies can kill him, and should have a storm shield, GKs can kill him, BA can razor-spam him, DE can kite him with poison, or long range dark lances on ravagers/raiders, Tau can blast him with plasma, etc, etc. Every army has answers. Mephiston is fine. Hell, take him in a 750pt list if you want. Just means you have less on the table. In fact, here: I'll take 2 units of Fire Dragons in serpents, a Farseer and small units of Guardians with platform weapons (starcannons, probably). You can take Mephie and your 500pts of other models. I see Eldar winning this fight...

Killing Mephiston When you know full well you're going to be fighting him is a lot different to killing Mephiston when you've prepared anti-MEQ/rhino list.
Would you really bring two units of Fire Dragons in serpents, a farseer and some guardians in a "normal" 750 game? What do you think would happen if your BA oponant instead had a DOA list? Suddenly you're fighting an army wide FNP/FC MEQ list.
This is one of the hidden benefits of such models. It's all well DERP DERP YOU NOOB Y U NOT HANDLE MEPHISTON but if your opponent can switch between a monsterous creature based army to a MEQ one whenever he wants, you're going to struggle to deal with either of those eventualities with the same list.

Killing Mephiston When you know full well you're going to be fighting him is a lot different to killing Mephiston when you've prepared anti-MEQ/rhino list.
Would you really bring two units of Fire Dragons in serpents, a farseer and some guardians in a "normal" 750 game? What do you think would happen if your BA oponant instead had a DOA list? Suddenly you're fighting an army wide FNP/FC MEQ list.

That's like..a standard 750 list, give or take some dire avengers over guardians... Everyone takes a farseer, and everyone takes at *Least* one to two squads of FD's to deal with the tanks that can come at that level
..
If they used DOA they'd just slag them with AP1 meltaguns instead of meph. Which would deny FNP, along with the serpants zipping around, being immune to the 2D6 of the melta they use.

Mephiston is a horribly unbalanced character, but mainly based on the fact that some armies just can't do much of anything about him, and other armies walk all over him.

I was playing one game against a friend, he was Blood Angels, I was Orkz. My Orkz cut through his entire army with little issue, crushed him. But then Mephiston comes along, and there's literally nothing that I could have done to stop him.

On the other hand, same friend, same army, but I was running my guard. Mephiston jumps out again, and he dies in a single round of shooting to a single plasma vet squad who had nothing better to shoot at.

It's proof again that Mat Ward is utterly incapable of external balance. I personally dislike Mephiston because there's really no tactics involved in fighting him or fighting against him. Depending on your army, you either get crushed by him, or you crush him, there's no in-between. Remember back when we still had the old Necron Codex, and Mephiston countered the entire codex for free? There was literally nothing in that book that could even touch him.
Orks don't really have anything to throw against him except for Ghazzy, and Mephiston's almost always going to get the charge anyway, meaning you won't get to call your Waaagh! until at least the second round of combat, which means it's kind of a crapshoot.
Tyranids have to rely on poor psychic rolls and a much less mobile Swarm Lord to actually stand a chance of putting Mephy down.

Mephiston is a horribly unbalanced character, but mainly based on the fact that some armies just can't do much of anything about him, and other armies walk all over him.

There's only two armies with no commonly used counters, and that's orks (which more people play and complain about it seems) and black templar. That's pretty good actually.

Tyranids have to rely on poor psychic rolls and a much less mobile Swarm Lord to actually stand a chance of putting Mephy down.

Tyranids have lost their lashwhips? A Tyranid Hive Tyrant can put him down easily, SOTW to prevent his abilities, lash whip to prevent him from hitting first, paraoxysm which reduces him down to WS1, rerolls hits, power weapon with possible instant death..

At about -50 points from meph.

Right. And why are you bringing this up? I thought it had been clearly established that Eldar was the one army that can handle Meph with the least difficulty.

So, here's my challenge: please find a TAC Necron list that can bring down Meph, and still hope to win at the rest of the game. Keep in mind the ubiquitous 4+ cover save.

azazel the cat wrote:Right. And why are you bringing this up? I thought it had been clearly established that Eldar was the one army that can handle Meph with the least difficulty.

So, here's my challenge: please find a TAC Necron list that can bring down Meph, and still hope to win at the rest of the game. Keep in mind the ubiquitous 4+ cover save.

5 Wraiths, ignores cover, ignores terrain, 3++, 3/4 rending attacks at S6, whip coils which drop him down to I1

Done, can be taken in any standard list and most people seem to now, anything else?

Huh... I had someone try that two days ago against previously mentioned friend's Mephiston. 5 wraiths and a lord. Mephiston went through the lord 3 times, and killed the wraiths 4 times before he went down.

I know what you're thinking. The Necron player didn't know his own rules. But the initiative penalty and rending were definitely there.