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Wondering what the Dakka community thinks about Mephi being used in friendly games. Is he too over powered? Should he be left in the case until tournaments? He usually is a game changer the moment he gets into CC.

Thoughts?

Also, for some reason the search function was not working, so i appologize in advance if this topic has been brought up numerous times in the past.

Cheers,
Falco

Mephiston is pretty OP. He's not fun to play against, is horribly unbalanced, and is one of those units that can win you the game even if you were annihilated in every other aspect. That said, I feel that he doesn't belong in friendly games below 2000pts. Above that, your opponent should have the tools to deal with him, even if he is still unfun to play agianst.

This really depends on what someone considers a "friendly game." Regardless thought I don't see why you should have to take this into consideration when fielding an army. If you like having Mephiston in your army for whatever reason and he has no synergy with the list then why not?

I think i will stick with the 2000 pt mark. just so I dont become "that guy". It is unfortunate, because i like him so much. I might just start asking before games if the opponent has a problem with me running him.

Mephiston isn't so op when you've got a ton of dark lances firing at him.

I've seen Mephiston tear through stuff, but I usually throw that into the "acceptable losses" bin. I'll throw a squad of whatever for him to eat so I can set up to blow his not-eternal-warrior-having ass away.

He goes from OP to a massive waiste of points depending on the opponent. It seems like armies either have no answer for him, or a million answers, there's no middle ground with mephi.

I agree it depends on your definition of friendly. If you have a bad player who wants you to use a crappy list then it won't fit into that person's idea of "friendly". If you have a good play that likes a tough game but just likes using unusual units/builds then it may be "friendly" to them.

This game is in my opinion a gentlemen's agreement above all other things. If you both can get what you want out of a game with mephiston in there then use him.

I love seeing him in friendly games if I have taken Ghaz

Mephiston is, and always has been, one of my absolute favorite characters in the entire 40k universe. If people have a problem with me taking him, I run his model with "regular" librarian stats (with the epistolary upgrade) and just call it Mephiston. Then I run a second libby and that makes up the points on the fly.

I like the fluff, not necessarily the OP-ness, and he's actually not all that bad. Treat him like a vehicle and he dies fast enough, but if you let him get into the Danger Zone, then you've got some minor issues.

I've only played against Meph once, and while he did fly around and kill stuff for a while, he eventually got stuck in combat with a bunch of Berzerkers who repeatedly powerfisted him in the face until he died.

From what I've seen, he's also a lot more manageable if you have some decent psychic defence.

Mephiston is only OP and abit much for some games under certain conditions.

Using him in anything under 1000 points is just plain unfair as most armies will have to focus everything they have on him to maybe kill him in one or two turns.

Also, some armies with older Codexes have alot of trouble bringing him down because there AP2 weapons cost way to much(I'm looking at you Tau and Eldar codexes). So, I would say in the spirit of fair play, bringing him against these opponents is non-friendly.

I also want to say, for the record, I HATE his fluff. Its the second stupidest thing I have ever read in a 40k Codex, right after Draigo's fluff.

TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

I also want to say, for the record, I HATE his fluff. Its the second stupidest thing I have ever read in a 40k Codex, right after Draigo's fluff.

Mephiston is the reason why I always keep a pocket full of Ratlings whenever I play a BA player.

bmoleski wrote:Mephiston is pretty OP. He's not fun to play against, is horribly unbalanced, and is one of those units that can win you the game even if you were annihilated in every other aspect. That said, I feel that he doesn't belong in friendly games below 2000pts. Above that, your opponent should have the tools to deal with him, even if he is still unfun to play agianst.

This just about sums up my feelings towards him; but it really depends on the army. I primarily run Necrons, and Mephiston is the single worst thing in all of 40k for my Necron army. However, my Long Fangs generally just laugh at Mephiston failing to activate his psychic powers. Similarly, I think Eldrad basically turns Mephiston into a big red waste of 250 points.

Typically avoid Special Characters in general for friendly games, unless you've got the other guy's permission beforehand.

i think GK pretty much instantly out melee mephiston and kill him dont they?

kb305 wrote:i think GK pretty much instantly out melee mephiston and kill him dont they?

250pts of Paladins w/ Halbers (cuz you won't be tailoring to fight Mephiston)

Mephiston hits first, most likely has Preferred Enemy and S10 so all wounds are ID, and T6......Pallys lose.

Draigo on the other hand.....

AnomanderRake wrote:Typically avoid Special Characters in general for friendly games, unless you've got the other guy's permission beforehand.

I didn't realise it was 2006 still and anyone actually gave a gak about using special characters.

Mephiston is fine; the only things he's really good at killing are MEQ squads or things which die to any other good CC unit, or stationary vehicles you've somehow let him reach. Smart play limits his effectiveness because if he jumps out of cover and doesn't make it to where he needs to be then any list with a decent amount of AP2 will take him off the table pretty easily.

Yeah I love it when a little kid comes up with his BA army and says "I HAZ MEPHISTON!!! U R SO DEAD!!!! LUL!!!!". Every single time that happens I drive a trukk's worth of Orks Boyz at him and assault him. He kills ~2/3 guys a turn and I take on average 1/2 wounds of him with my PK and 1/2 with my boys every turn. It's actually quite funny. 112pts kill 250pts sooo easily.

I don't think Mephiston is nearly as deadly as the Space Wolves guy. Mephiston is overall balanced as a special character IMO.

he dies to plasma guns, melta guns, lascannons and the other large amountof AP2/1 guns your opponent should be bringing so no....no he is not OP

GK is an army full of instant death sticks for any multi-wound model, especially Mephy since he doesn't even get an invuln save.

How can you not like Mephiston's fluff? It's stayed pretty consistent and is fairly definitive of "space marine badassery".

DakkaOrk007 wrote:Every single time that happens I drive a trukk's worth of Orks Boyz at him and assault him. He kills ~2/3 guys a turn and I take on average 1/2 wounds of him with my PK and 1/2 with my boys every turn. It's actually quite funny. 112pts kill 250pts sooo easily.

The trukk full of boys would seriously be in trouble unless the person rolling for Meph has terrible luck...

The trukk holds 12, Meph kills 4-6 on the charge and 4-5 when not charging.

So if he only kills 4, you are down to 8, you can do at most 3 wounds to him with the PK. average will be 1 or 2.

So if you do 2 wounds to him you lose combat by 2 and take a LD-2 check at LD8 you run and meph autokills the whole unit.

Meph has Unleashed rage so he re-rolls to hit rolls, he hits on a 3+ because he is WS7 which he can re-roll, He has 6 attacks on the charge, 5 when not charging, and he wounds on a 2+ because of Str6, all of this and no armor save allowed.

You must fight people with terrible luck, or terrible memory and forget to cast unleashed rage.

OP Meph is fine, he dies to mass amounts of fire, or anti tank fairly easily. If you put a 5 man unit of assault marines in front of him, as a screen, then meph gets a 4+ cover from all that AP2 shooting, and will last a bit longer.

Fortunately you get 2 Trukk Boyz squads for 1 Mephiston.

Radical_Edward wrote:I don't think Mephiston is nearly as deadly as the Space Wolves guy. Mephiston is overall balanced as a special character IMO.

Except that his stats & psyker abilities read like a fanboy's wishlist. He can't be ID'd, he gets 5 wounds with a 2+ armour save, 5 attacks at Str 10 with preferred enemy, has a 24" threat range and almost always goes first in combat. And a force weapon.

My earlier point stands: if the opposing army has no reliable way of negating his psyker abilities, then Meph is brutal. And if you run an army that is sub-par is CC AND has no way of negating psyker abilities, then Mephiston is basically like pushing a win button. Granted, as a Necron player Mephiston is just about the worst thing to see in all of 40k on the other side of the table, but it doesn't change the fact that he is very overpowered. Yes, there are ways of bringing him down, but half of the armies require at least a full turn of concentrating their entire force to do so. That isn't balance.


EDIT: I see you play BA. Now your silly quote makes sense.

Any unit is fine for a friendly game. Anyone who says one unit or another shouldn't be in a friendly army list being a jerk.

He may be good but anything that ignores armour will easily deal with him. Spam Plasma and he dies. Spam Power Weapons he dies. Take a GK character with Halberd he dies. Charge him.with a GK squad he dies. 3 Carnifexes he dies. Tyrabt with Guard he dies

mephiston op? is he balls

sure he kicks the crap out of everything he vses but his slow and easy to maneuver around.

his pretty much a overpriced small daemon prince.

TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
I also want to say, for the record, I HATE his fluff. Its the second stupidest thing I have ever read in a 40k Codex, right after Draigo's fluff.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadshot wrote:He may be good but anything that ignores armour will easily deal with him. Spam Plasma and he dies. Spam Power Weapons he dies. Take a GK character with Halberd he dies. Charge him.with a GK squad he dies. 3 Carnifexes he dies. Tyrabt with Guard he dies

Mephi is init7 so a halbard doesnt do much. Also he is T7 so you need to hammerhand a character up to the point where he can actually wound and then activate force weapons, but Mephi has a good hood. Not the way to deal with him. Same goes for a GK squad. Its not likely they will do many wounds and then he can always hood the ID.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would leave him in the case unless you are playing a tourney. He is just that lame. I never have trouble bringing him down, but I wouldnt feel good using him in a game.

T6, Exergy. T5 if eating Rad Grenades.

azazel the cat wrote:

Radical_Edward wrote:I don't think Mephiston is nearly as deadly as the Space Wolves guy. Mephiston is overall balanced as a special character IMO.

Except that his stats & psyker abilities read like a fanboy's wishlist. He can't be ID'd, he gets 5 wounds with a 2+ armour save, 5 attacks at Str 10 with preferred enemy, has a 24" threat range and almost always goes first in combat. And a force weapon.

He can be ID'd. Not usually by high Strength (although GK can manage it due to the aforementioned Rad Grenades), but he's not an EW. S10, Preferred Enemy and his movement are all dependent on psychic powers successfully going off. He's usually casting 2-3 powers every turn, so some of them will occasionally fail and it's pretty common for him to deal a wound or two to himself in any given game via Perils.

azazel the cat wrote:My earlier point stands: if the opposing army has no reliable way of negating his psyker abilities, then Meph is brutal. And if you run an army that is sub-par is CC AND has no way of negating psyker abilities, then Mephiston is basically like pushing a win button. Granted, as a Necron player Mephiston is just about the worst thing to see in all of 40k on the other side of the table, but it doesn't change the fact that he is very overpowered. Yes, there are ways of bringing him down, but half of the armies require at least a full turn of concentrating their entire force to do so. That isn't balance.

I think Necrons are really kind of alone in this. Most other armies have power fists in squads, psychic defense, and/or sufficient AP1/AP2 firepower to kill him in a turn if they get the right positioning.

Mephiston is great, and can be a game-winner, but can also be 250pts of "I killed something and now I die", which can often be a liability for the BA player, as losing your psychic defense mid game can suck, and holding back a 250pt unit until late game can also be a handicap. Most of the time I prefer to field a cheaper HQ.