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Hazardous Harry wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:

CptJake wrote:
The teachers could sue, more likely their union or the school board (I would bet the union). Even if almost no damages were awarded a court case would cost tens of thousands of dollars (assuming the family hires a competent lawyer). That is just a civil trial. If he actually got brought up on criminal charges he potentially loses freedom, his family loses his income while he is playing fish, and unless he goes with a public defender he still has legal fees.

What law has he broken?

Also, the school can't sue because they feel like it. There has to be a matter for the court to decide on (like whether to impose an injuction or award damages). He wouldn't even need a decent lawyer to get this thrown out of court, the judge simply wouldn't allow it.

Wiretapping. In many states in the US, it is illegal to record someone's conversation/images without their permission.

So is there a Right to Privacy in the US? Or is this some other issue?

In either case, what prosecutor in their right mind would pursue this?

More right to privay (I think). I'm not very informed in this area.

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:

CptJake wrote:
The teachers could sue, more likely their union or the school board (I would bet the union). Even if almost no damages were awarded a court case would cost tens of thousands of dollars (assuming the family hires a competent lawyer). That is just a civil trial. If he actually got brought up on criminal charges he potentially loses freedom, his family loses his income while he is playing fish, and unless he goes with a public defender he still has legal fees.

What law has he broken?

Also, the school can't sue because they feel like it. There has to be a matter for the court to decide on (like whether to impose an injuction or award damages). He wouldn't even need a decent lawyer to get this thrown out of court, the judge simply wouldn't allow it.

Wiretapping. In many states in the US, it is illegal to record someone's conversation/images without their permission.

So is there a Right to Privacy in the US? Or is this some other issue?

In either case, what prosecutor in their right mind would pursue this?

A prosecutor doing his/her job, defending the rights of the citizens of thier state, even the ones you don't like.
The crime is:

NJPS-2A:156A-3.   Interception, disclosure, use of wire, electronic, oral communication; violation 
   a.   Purposely intercepts, endeavors to intercept, or procures any other person to intercept or endeavor to intercept any wire, electronic or oral communication; ...
shall be guilty of a crime of the third degree.

Kilkrazy wrote:The primary concern in an education system is the well-being of the children. I believe that ethically justifies taping if there is reasonable suspicion of wrong-doing.

I suppose the question is what makes a suspicion reasonable? I reckon parents and educators might have drastically different ideas about that.

Kilkrazy wrote:

CptJake wrote:More serious has no relevance. Each is illegal.

I take it then that you would not park in a no parking zone in order to prevent a weapon of mass destruction from being released.

I take it you like to troll. Honestly I expect more from a Mod (though I am learning my expectations of Mods may be too high).

Of course I would park in a no parking zone to prevent innocents being killed. I would also not be surprised if I got a ticket for doing so and would pay it.

AustonT wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:

CptJake wrote:
The teachers could sue, more likely their union or the school board (I would bet the union). Even if almost no damages were awarded a court case would cost tens of thousands of dollars (assuming the family hires a competent lawyer). That is just a civil trial. If he actually got brought up on criminal charges he potentially loses freedom, his family loses his income while he is playing fish, and unless he goes with a public defender he still has legal fees.

What law has he broken?

Also, the school can't sue because they feel like it. There has to be a matter for the court to decide on (like whether to impose an injuction or award damages). He wouldn't even need a decent lawyer to get this thrown out of court, the judge simply wouldn't allow it.

Wiretapping. In many states in the US, it is illegal to record someone's conversation/images without their permission.

So is there a Right to Privacy in the US? Or is this some other issue?

In either case, what prosecutor in their right mind would pursue this?

A prosecutor doing his/her job, defending the rights of the citizens of thier state, even the ones you don't like.
The crime is:

NJPS-2A:156A-3.   Interception, disclosure, use of wire, electronic, oral communication; violation 
   a.   Purposely intercepts, endeavors to intercept, or procures any other person to intercept or endeavor to intercept any wire, electronic or oral communication; ...
shall be guilty of a crime of the third degree.

Of course if we want to play "I can Google laws and play pretend-lawyer on the internet" then I present the very next section of the same law that you quoted:

2A:156A-4. Lawful interception activities; exceptions
4. It shall not be unlawful under this act for:
.....
d. A person not acting under color of law to intercept a wire, electronic or oral communication, where such person is a party to the communication or one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception unless such communication is intercepted or used for the purpose of committing any criminal or tortious act in violation of the Constitution or laws of the United States or of this State or for the purpose of committing any other injurious act......

Look at me, I can google too

Of course there is also the argument that a conversation you have in public in front of a bunch of children does not mean that you have an expectation of privacy. Public conversations are public knowledge. Thinking "these kids are too dumb to be able to tell anybody else what we said" is not going to be a very good privacy defense.

Manchu wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:The primary concern in an education system is the well-being of the children. I believe that ethically justifies taping if there is reasonable suspicion of wrong-doing.

I suppose the question is what makes a suspicion reasonable? I reckon parents and educators might have drastically different ideas about that.

I find it humorous to think that thats the primary concern of an educational system. I find most organizations' primary concerns are with protecting and/or expanding their power and employee count. Having been to the Texas equivalent of the DMV (also know as THE GATEWAY TO HECK) 3 times in the last two weeks I can vouch that their primary concern definitely was not efficiently meeting the needs of their customers.

With cellphones being as high tech as they are, the privacy
debate is going to become more and more of an issue going forward.

d-usa wrote:

Look at me, I can google too

Congratulations not only have you accomplished a basic modern task, you were able to do it in the most asinine manner. Gold star for you!

AustonT wrote:

d-usa wrote:

Look at me, I can google too

Congratulations not only have you accomplished a basic modern task, you were able to do it in the most asinine manner. Gold star for you!

I shall treasure it forever.

Mr Hyena wrote:

The 'teachers' in this have obviously lost their interest in actually teaching.

It isn't surprising when teachers get paid absolute gak.

Not true..in all cases. Some teachers make 6 figures.

GG

Some professors, perhaps.

Albatross wrote:Some professors, perhaps.

High school.

Of course you don't make 6 figures right away, and you don't make that everywhere.

GG

I don't think getting a crap wage gives anyone an excuse to abuse a disabled child.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

d-usa wrote:
2A:156A-4. Lawful interception activities; exceptions
4. It shall not be unlawful under this act for:
.....
d. A person not acting under color of law to intercept a wire, electronic or oral communication, where such person is a party to the communication or one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception unless such communication is intercepted or used for the purpose of committing any criminal or tortious act in violation of the Constitution or laws of the United States or of this State or for the purpose of committing any other injurious act......

Look at me, I can google too

Of course there is also the argument that a conversation you have in public in front of a bunch of children does not mean that you have an expectation of privacy. Public conversations are public knowledge. Thinking "these kids are too dumb to be able to tell anybody else what we said" is not going to be a very good privacy defense.

Well that does seem to clinch it, the father hasn't broken the law here.

generalgrog wrote:

Albatross wrote:Some professors, perhaps.

High school.

Of course you don't make 6 figures right away, and you don't make that everywhere.

GG

So you'd accept that most teachers earn in the low 5-figures?

Disgusted.

That is all.

Albatross wrote:Some professors, perhaps.

It depends on school district. I don't know how it is in Canada East but in the US the public school system is broken into local school districts with different pay standards - just as their locales have different economics standards.

Many studies have show that the US is an excellent lab experiment in proving tacher salaries are almost completely dissasociated with performance. Many of the best paying union strong school districts (NY and Washington DC as an example), have some of the most horrific educational rates. of course, teachers are just the tip of the educational spear as it were, and its like waiters. The problems with the food aren't the waiters, its the crappy kitchen and management.

Albatross wrote:

generalgrog wrote:

Albatross wrote:Some professors, perhaps.

High school.

Of course you don't make 6 figures right away, and you don't make that everywhere.

GG

So you'd accept that most teachers earn in the low 5-figures?

I don't think teachers make a bad living me. I mean, I know your lass IS one, but are you letting that cloud your opinion? How much do you think she should be getting?

Alll of the public sector works the same, it was the same in the military and it was the same working for the city. You start low, and it goes up every year.

They start on £20,000 a year, and it goes up every year, ending on £29,596 or something after five years.

As a young bootneck in Northern Ireland I was earning £14,000, it went up about 2,500 a year until I was capped at level 8, then I got promoted to corporal and was on about £23,000 and I was toppers with cash!

Teachers SHOULD earn more than soldiers due to their educational qualifications. They deserve more than us uneducated thugs (but Policemen and Firemen fething shouldn't however!) but its wings and roundabouts. Being a teacher is an awesome job, something like 128 days off a year?! I think its why so many bloody mates of mine from school do it!

I think the government have it about bang on.

Teachers earn a fair wage considering all the perks and time off, soldiers earn a fair wage considering they volunteer in the first place, firemen and coppers are slightly overpaid but its not too much worth dripping about. Public sector workers in the UK get a fair wage, a fair salary, fair time off and a fair pension, and at the end of the day, this country is full of greedy bastards who whinge too much. My aunt is a Nurse.. Jesus, the woman does nothing but whine. And Snells (I was his best man for those who dont know me and Alby!) wife is a nurse and she certainly feels she does alright out of it.

You don't think its about right how it is? I certainly don't think we should bump up teachers salaries much higher, or everyone in the private sector will start going "feth this! Im off to be a teacher!"

Long story short mate, public sector workers in the UK are treated more than fairly.

We make up for the shorter working year with outside of the
class type stuff.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/education/latest-news/teachers-work-24-hours-outside-class-each-week-2122287.html

http://news.illinois.edu/news/12/0409CPSworkload_RobertBruno.html

If your average job is 235 working days a year and teachers
are at 180 working days per year, we make up the time at 10
-24 extra hours per week.

Of course, standard salaried positions include work outside
of work, but I don't think it adds up to 24 hours per week.

Then you get the lazy asses who don't nearly get 24 hours
out of the week, or the hyper organized who don't either.

Of course these extra hours are self-reported, but still.

I should just give up and be the bad teacher who spends 0 extra hours a week.

mattyrm wrote:

Albatross wrote:

generalgrog wrote:

Albatross wrote:Some professors, perhaps.

High school.

Of course you don't make 6 figures right away, and you don't make that everywhere.

GG

So you'd accept that most teachers earn in the low 5-figures?

I don't think teachers make a bad living me. I mean, I know your lass IS one, but are you letting that cloud your opinion? How much do you think she should be getting?

Alll of the public sector works the same, it was the same in the military and it was the same working for the city. You start low, and it goes up every year.

They start on £20,000 a year, and it goes up every year, ending on £29,596 or something after five years.

As a young bootneck in Northern Ireland I was earning £14,000, it went up about 2,500 a year until I was capped at level 8, then I got promoted to corporal and was on about £23,000 and I was toppers with cash!

Teachers SHOULD earn more than soldiers due to their educational qualifications. They deserve more than us uneducated thugs (but Policemen and Firemen fething shouldn't however!) but its wings and roundabouts. Being a teacher is an awesome job, something like 128 days off a year?! I think its why so many bloody mates of mine from school do it!

I think the government have it about bang on.

Teachers earn a fair wage considering all the perks and time off, soldiers earn a fair wage considering they volunteer in the first place, firemen and coppers are slightly overpaid but its not too much worth dripping about. Public sector workers in the UK get a fair wage, a fair salary, fair time off and a fair pension, and at the end of the day, this country is full of greedy bastards who whinge too much. My aunt is a Nurse.. Jesus, the woman does nothing but whine. And Snells (I was his best man for those who dont know me and Alby!) wife is a nurse and she certainly feels she does alright out of it.

You don't think its about right how it is? I certainly don't think we should bump up teachers salaries much higher, or everyone in the private sector will start going "feth this! Im off to be a teacher!"

Long story short mate, public sector workers in the UK are treated more than fairly.

You have heard about this thing called the cost of living right?

each year the cost of living goes up around 3-5%.

That means if you do not get a raise every year, you are actually getting paid less, every year.

sirlynchmob wrote:

You have heard about this thing called the cost of living right?

each year the cost of living goes up around 3-5%.

That means if you do not get a raise every year, you are actually getting paid less, every year.

Yes, and government workers pay scales rise with inflation each and every year. In the armed forces it was always a few percent higher than actual inflation. In 1999 Level 5 was 15,565, In 2000 level 5 was 16,880, etc etc. The levels and bands you are on rise slightly each year.

Needless to say, I have of course heard about it, and so has the government.

Some scales cap and do not include COL.

mattyrm wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

You have heard about this thing called the cost of living right?

each year the cost of living goes up around 3-5%.

That means if you do not get a raise every year, you are actually getting paid less, every year.

Yes, and government workers pay scales rise with inflation each and every year. In the armed forces it was always a few percent higher than actual inflation. In 1999 Level 5 was 15,565, In 2000 level 5 was 16,880, etc etc. The levels and bands you are on rise slightly each year.

Needless to say, I have of course heard about it, and so has the government.

well your country must support its military more than the US does. every year the military raise is consistently below the COL.

malfred wrote:Some scales cap and do not include COL.

Not in the UK they don't. There is a cap at a rank for example (Say a level 10 Major or something thats done more than ten years at the same rank) but it always rises with inflation each year.

I agree with Matty, my wages are fair. Most of my complaints are about my working conditions, not my wages and perks (like holidays) which I am happy with.

Main bugbears in teaching:
Lack of respect from students and parents.
Piles of stupid paperwork to fill in for trivial things.
Too much interference from politicians and "Ofsted", which I think damages education in Britain quite a lot.
Lack of support from management.
And generally I guess I am unhappy about the amount of marking I have to do, but I guess no coppers are happy that they have to get shouted and spat at by scum and no soldiers are delighted to have to move through areas that might have been landmined, so I'll shut up and bear it

Da Boss wrote:I agree with Matty, my wages are fair. Most of my complaints are about my working conditions, not my wages and perks (like holidays) which I am happy with.

Main bugbears in teaching:
Lack of respect from students and parents.
Piles of stupid paperwork to fill in for trivial things.
Too much interference from politicians and "Ofsted", which I think damages education in Britain quite a lot.
Lack of support from management.
And generally I guess I am unhappy about the amount of marking I have to do, but I guess no coppers are happy that they have to get shouted and spat at by scum and no soldiers are delighted to have to move through areas that might have been landmined, so I'll shut up and bear it

Lack of respect from students who know the management wont do anything drives me nuts.

We had a student recently, who because he made it past November, the management refused to kick him from the course as it would affect the statistics. Even though all the lecturers/teachers/assistants/canteenstaff said the pupil wouldn't co-operate, doesn't do work, and abuses staff, management was all "Nah, keep him".

So we were forced to keep him (and others like him), and now he's just quit by himself (not officially or anything, he just doesn't turn up and hasn't handed in any work). Management scrambled to try get him a "reduced" qualification from the work he'd already done, but the problem was he hadn't actually done it, just lied about doing it. When they contacted me recently about getting the work he'd done for me I just said "What work? He never submitted". Bugger gets nothing.

malfred wrote:Some scales cap and do not include COL.

Private often doesn't includ COL either.

Hey as I said, swings and roundabouts.

I can imagine loads of things being gak about being a teacher. I'm not one for that reason, I can imagine how some of the little gakkers behave safe in the knowledge you cant dragonpunch them.

But as I said, that's life, what's the point in whinging about all the little things, that's like soldiers saying "the pay and holiday is alright but I hate the fething Taliban" or firemen saying "I like all the money and time off but I wish things wouldnt fething light!" or Nurses saying "It was fine till sick people showed up"

Pros vs Cons, its a decent life being a teacher. Plenty of leisure time, and an ample salary.

It beats my last job. (spunk mopper in a Dutch spank booth)

Da Boss wrote:I agree with Matty, my wages are fair. Most of my complaints are about my working conditions, not my wages and perks (like holidays) which I am happy with.

Main bugbears in teaching:
Lack of respect from students and parents.
Piles of stupid paperwork to fill in for trivial things.
Too much interference from politicians and "Ofsted", which I think damages education in Britain quite a lot.
Lack of support from management.
And generally I guess I am unhappy about the amount of marking I have to do, but I guess no coppers are happy that they have to get shouted and spat at by scum and no soldiers are delighted to have to move through areas that might have been landmined, so I'll shut up and bear it

I'm a secondary school student and to be honest I agree with everything you're saying although I don't know much about the paperwork . Quite honestly I'm disgusted at the things that students have done to teachers. Pretty much everyday I hear students shouting/swearing at teachers. Someone I know threw a chair at a teacher. Some parents aren't much better either, also shouting and/or swearing at teachers for something 99% of the time is not the teacher's fault. However a friend of mine got told by a teacher when they were six that one of their parents could not be her real parent as her parents aren't married. Of course there are some things that teachers shouldn't be allowed to do, but most of the things that teachers are blamed for aren't there fault. However what happened in the video is most certainly the teacher's fault.

Evilledz wrote:

Da Boss wrote:I agree with Matty, my wages are fair. Most of my complaints are about my working conditions, not my wages and perks (like holidays) which I am happy with.

Main bugbears in teaching:
Lack of respect from students and parents.
Piles of stupid paperwork to fill in for trivial things.
Too much interference from politicians and "Ofsted", which I think damages education in Britain quite a lot.
Lack of support from management.
And generally I guess I am unhappy about the amount of marking I have to do, but I guess no coppers are happy that they have to get shouted and spat at by scum and no soldiers are delighted to have to move through areas that might have been landmined, so I'll shut up and bear it

I'm a secondary school student and to be honest I agree with everything you're saying although I don't know much about the paperwork . Quite honestly I'm disgusted at the things that students have done to teachers. Pretty much everyday I hear students shouting/swearing at teachers. Someone I know threw a chair at a teacher. Some parents aren't much better either, also shouting and/or swearing at teachers for something 99% of the time is not the teacher's fault. However a friend of mine got told by a teacher when they were six that one of their parents could not be her real parent as her parents aren't married. Of course there are some things that teachers shouldn't be allowed to do, but most of the things that teachers are blamed for aren't there fault. However what happened in the video is most certainly the teacher's fault.

Under an enlightened Frazzled adminstration :
*Swear at a teacher. Expelled from school.
*Raise your voice to a teacher. Suspended from school.
*Throw a chair at teacher. 1) teacher and support staff have free reign to Taze Him Bro until the batteries run out; then 2) They are auto expelled; 3) The police come, charge him with Battery to a Teacher (new Felony I), commence a repeat of #1 and then take the delinquent away.

Frazzled wrote:

Evilledz wrote:

Da Boss wrote:I agree with Matty, my wages are fair. Most of my complaints are about my working conditions, not my wages and perks (like holidays) which I am happy with.

Main bugbears in teaching:
Lack of respect from students and parents.
Piles of stupid paperwork to fill in for trivial things.
Too much interference from politicians and "Ofsted", which I think damages education in Britain quite a lot.
Lack of support from management.
And generally I guess I am unhappy about the amount of marking I have to do, but I guess no coppers are happy that they have to get shouted and spat at by scum and no soldiers are delighted to have to move through areas that might have been landmined, so I'll shut up and bear it

I'm a secondary school student and to be honest I agree with everything you're saying although I don't know much about the paperwork . Quite honestly I'm disgusted at the things that students have done to teachers. Pretty much everyday I hear students shouting/swearing at teachers. Someone I know threw a chair at a teacher. Some parents aren't much better either, also shouting and/or swearing at teachers for something 99% of the time is not the teacher's fault. However a friend of mine got told by a teacher when they were six that one of their parents could not be her real parent as her parents aren't married. Of course there are some things that teachers shouldn't be allowed to do, but most of the things that teachers are blamed for aren't there fault. However what happened in the video is most certainly the teacher's fault.

Under an enlightened Frazzled adminstration :
*Swear at a teacher. Expelled from school.
*Raise your voice to a teacher. Suspended from school.
*Throw a chair at teacher. 1) teacher and support staff have free reign to Taze Him Bro until the batteries run out; then 2) They are auto expelled; 3) The police come, charge him with Battery to a Teacher (new Felony I), commence a repeat of #1 and then take the delinquent away.

I'll be honest, that made me laugh... A lot.