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I think he had two squads of deffkoptas. He does post on here occasionally, though, so hopefully he can confirm.

The problem with all the traditional "spam/internet" lists like Draigowing, traditional Deamons, etc.. is that most people will have some sort of answer for those lists.

Play something that is just a little bit different, and as long as you can play YOUR list very well the opponent will have an army that is tooled against net-list armies but has to adjust the tactics to deal with your "weird" list.

Infinity has a good saying "It's not your list, it's you!", and I think a lot of these lists really nailed that in a 40K setting.

The ork player was Doug / "Dugg" of TableWar, right?

I wanted to say hi and tell him how much I like the case in-person, but he was playing (I think against Bill's daemons) at the time, and everyone in that room was so serious! That it felt wrong to interrupt... (and probably would have been).

So, of course, I immediately walked into the center area and had to be (very nicely) escorted out by Mannahnin . I thought that was pretty funny, if slightly embarrassing... but it was also really cool to see how on the ball all the organizers and volunteers were to make sure the championships were played out fairly and to an extremely high level. I will definitely watch it on the feed next year, if I can't make it for any reason! But of course, I hope to be there in-person, instead

Dugg uses a pretty non-standard ork list. Battlewagons with gtabbing claws, boarding planks, wrecking balls, etc. he uses burna boyz, no lootas, deff koptas, snikrot, etc. He made the finals last year, too.

Can someone explain to me how the Necron list beats those GK lists? I don't see how it pops enough transports/dreads and doesn't get shot up before it gets a chance to get into combat (where it might not even win anyway) or does more damage with shooting.

I am in no way saying it sucks, I'm just missing how it works!

Everything in my list (with the exception of the tesla immortals) can hurt enemy vehicles, and to be honest there are some units in the GK lists that I really don't want to get into combat with unless its on my terms. I have to use terrain and distance to my advantage to maximise the amount of gauss shots I can get to pop the transports. At some point I'll usually throw the barge forward to sweep something and this usually draws a lot of fire away from the rest of the army.

GK lists that give me a lot of trouble are the ones with lots of power armoured bodies. Henchmen spam isn't normally a problem as they are so fragile once they get out of the transports I can kill them with anything in my list (except assassins of course, I have to try and shoot those buggers).

I had a great time at the weekend as as has already been mentioned, I found the atmosphere on Sunday both very well organised and incredibly relaxed and chilled out, although I certainly would have appreciated more sleep the night before!


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Oh, and it was great to meet those of you I'd not had a chance to know beforehand!

Congrats to the top 16 guys!

Bill Kim, wow dude, against all odds you got daemons to the finals against a sea of Grey Knights...

That being said, I'd still destroy your terrible army with my super pro Dark Eldar, but I guess we will have to wait until we can meet in West Michgan for that scrap!

Really impressed by the footdar list too. Total fricking skill to make that work at an event like that.

Grats gents.

blood angel wrote:Blackmoor doesn't want any of my DraigoWing.

I was thinking about retiring it after Adepticon but I am thinking of now taking it to Wargames Con. It just fits so well on an airplane.

I am going to write a blog post about how your Draigowing differs greatly from mine (you would expect nothing less from the foremost expert on Draigowing).

I am retiring my Draigowing myself. I have been playing it for the last year and I grew tired of it a while ago and Adepticon was going to be their last outing (maybe I will take them to the Nova Invitational). One thing about the Draigowing is that they do fit nicely in carry on. I took my whole army to the Nova Open and still had room for 5 days of clothes so I did not get charged for checking a bag.

So it is on to the foot Dark Eldar!

I suspect with NoArmorSaves we have a giant case of BigFishSmallPond....

As for all of his constant talk of WAAC he is really doing the competitive side of the hobby no good at all. They say the wise don't go around running their mouths. Or at least perceptive people would wonder what is the chance that only they are right...

Shinkaze wrote:They say the wise don't go around running their mouths.

"The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect."

Shinkaze wrote:I suspect with NoArmorSaves we have a giant case of BigFishSmallPond....

As for all of his constant talk of WAAC he is really doing the competitive side of the hobby no good at all. They say the wise don't go around running their mouths. Or at least perceptive people would wonder what is the chance that only they are right...

Lol its definitely possible he has OCS. (only child syndrome) It would definitely explain his attitiude as a "Stelek Jr."

Good show guys.
Funny thing is, that daemon lisr is almost exactly what i was planning on for mine!

Centurian99 wrote:

calypso2ts wrote:I was a bit skeptical when I first saw Bill Kim's list too (not that it did not work, it clearly does but WHY does it work). Here are my thoughts (I do not claim to be one of the best Daemon players, I have competed in one GT with them to moderate success in the actual battles). So an actual analysis of Bill Kim's list.

Impressive - you pretty much nailed the thinking behind my list. Pretty spot on for most of it. I'll add my comments as I go.

I'll add my thanks for your comments. Been thinking about jumping into daemons, and using Skarbrand with Slaaneshi stuff in particular. I've been picking the brains of daemons players I meet, so this was very helpful.

There were no Tyranid players at Adepticon? Dang... That's depressing...

KplKeegan wrote:There were no Tyranid players at Adepticon? Dang... That's depressing...

There were. Just not in the finals of the Championships (Top 16 players out of 256)

Oh, someone had said previously that there were no Tyranid or SoB players at the event. Has anyone posted an army breakdown?

I heard there was one 'nid player in the 256. This was hearsay however, and as I made three passes around every table specifically looking for 'nids, I can't be sure.

Kitzz wrote:I heard there was one 'nid player in the 256. This was hearsay however, and as I made three passes around every table specifically looking for 'nids, I can't be sure.

There's a pic of a Team Tournament group that had nids, but nothing that I saw for the 256.

BigRed from BoLS reported 0 Tyranids or Sisters in the main tournament
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/04/40k-meta-what-weve-become.html

Definitely no Tyranids or Sisters in the Championships. Too bad for the Tyranids given the fact that they made it to the top 16 last year.

NoArmorSave must be the same as Skywise. Or his Twin.They both have 10000 pts in Daemons and are the Best Player with Fate Crusher. They insult instead of adding good to the conversations and they love to steal threads.

BIG TROLL FOR SURE.


PS The same players dont keep placing in the top spots for no reason but being great players. Good Job to the top 16 guys.

RiTides wrote:The ork player was Doug / "Dugg" of TableWar, right?

I wanted to say hi and tell him how much I like the case in-person, but he was playing (I think against Bill's daemons) at the time, and everyone in that room was so serious! That it felt wrong to interrupt... (and probably would have been).

So, of course, I immediately walked into the center area and had to be (very nicely) escorted out by Mannahnin . I thought that was pretty funny, if slightly embarrassing... but it was also really cool to see how on the ball all the organizers and volunteers were to make sure the championships were played out fairly and to an extremely high level. I will definitely watch it on the feed next year, if I can't make it for any reason! But of course, I hope to be there in-person, instead

@ RiTides - You should have said hello! Bill and I were having a crazy game, dice rolls were all over the place, but I think we were all tired more thn serious. I know I was WAY on the Tired side.

In my list I had 2 Koptas in a squad, 1 with a Buzz Saw & both with TL Rokkits. I put almost everything but the 'Ard Case on my BattleWagons "Wrecking Balls & Krabin' Klaws for the WIN!". I'll try to do a little post about some of my Tricks in the next couple days.

Also, I had a BLAST and just wanted to say that it was great meeting everyone, some again, and some of you for the first time. I just wish I could have had more time away from the tables to hang out and chat more.

Unholy_Martyr wrote:Well...just to attempt to get back on topic...Why the hell does Bloodofkittens.com only work when it's 1 in the afternoon and sunny?

I mean seriously, I've been trying for the past 5 hours to get onto the site with no avail.

This! Does anyone else know where this information can be found?

jy2 wrote:@NoArmorSave:

Sometimes, it's not the list but the player behind the lists.

The players that you are critiquing are seasoned tournament players with records of success at such events. That is why there is so such "resistance" to some of your claims.

Instead of making some of the claims you make, I suggest why not do a battle report against one of the better players in your area? That will go a long ways into "soothing" the "naysayers" here on dakka. It may also offer insight on how to play a proper fatecrusher build. Just something to consider.

If this guy is from new mexico and its who I think it is... he doesn't win that often at all. As a matter of fact, he doesn't even paint his own armies...

Blood of kittens is failing me with the long load times or just simply not loading at all.

@Reecius - Is there anything "Standard" about me? hahaha

The lists look to be pretty balanced, each one has the tools needed to win. It's nice to see that none of the lists are really anything special so the players were just able to put the right tools to the right job. it's good to see skilled players on top.

Dugg wrote:@Reecius - Is there anything "Standard" about me? hahaha

Hahaha, no!

@Blackmoor

Foot Deldar? I have been thinking the same thing for a while now! Without the mobile heavy weapons that Footdar have though, and without the Psychic buffs I am having trouble making it work. I am thinking at least one webway portal, and a mix of assault and shooting units. The issue is how to deal with Deathstars and Purifiers, and how to pop vehicles with mobility? Where do you get your tank busting? Footdar can shoot like the dickens and then assault, Deldar lack that versatility. Their units want to do one thing or the other.

What were your thoughts? I'd be curious to hear what your strategies were.

A couple of friends of mine run foot DEldar quite successfully. 2 WWP are required though. What the DEldar lack in versatility they make up for in speed. Beasts, Helions and Scourge all move so damn fast you just can't catch them unless they allow you too.

2 units of Scourge with Heat Lances (they have the mobility to use them effectively)

1 unit of beasts as your heavy hitters in assault.

1 big unit of helions. I have seen them used to great effect. These guys use their mobility and size to tag multiple units in a brutal multi-combat with Wyches or other cc units. If you include the SC that makes them Scoring, Stealthed and all the other goodies he brings they become stupidly resilient to shooting too.

Walking Trueborn out of Portals can also be added to give more anti-tank options.

@Lukus
We were actually thinking the same thing. Hellions with the Baron are awesome, and Frankie wants to try some Scourges with heat lances.

Beasts can be brutal, that unit can just wreck stuff.

The only issue I see is that if you bump into something better in combat than you, you get hosed. Footdar can shoot or assault, and that versatility lets them fight anyone.

Dugg wrote:

RiTides wrote:The ork player was Doug / "Dugg" of TableWar, right?

I wanted to say hi and tell him how much I like the case in-person, but he was playing (I think against Bill's daemons) at the time, and everyone in that room was so serious! That it felt wrong to interrupt... (and probably would have been).

So, of course, I immediately walked into the center area and had to be (very nicely) escorted out by Mannahnin . I thought that was pretty funny, if slightly embarrassing... but it was also really cool to see how on the ball all the organizers and volunteers were to make sure the championships were played out fairly and to an extremely high level. I will definitely watch it on the feed next year, if I can't make it for any reason! But of course, I hope to be there in-person, instead

@ RiTides - You should have said hello! Bill and I were having a crazy game, dice rolls were all over the place, but I think we were all tired more thn serious. I know I was WAY on the Tired side.

Yep. Tired, and both of us were out by that point, so we were just playing for the bragging rights of it. Didn't realize you were a Dakkanaut, Dugg. Did what I could to give you a game, but between the crap I was rolling, and Ghazgul's ability to stand up to 12 bloodletters...wasn't much I could do. :(


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Didn't help that my brain shut down and I forgot that since you reserved everything Ghaz could call a waagh when they arrived on turn 2. Ouch.