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Reckoner wrote:

Here's my question. I'm looking at dropping the kannons for big shootas. I never fired a single shot in the game I played the other day and the bshoota taking the weapon destroyed worked brilliantly. I'm about to look at putting ghazzy in this list. What can I do to help this list and is ghazzy a good idea for BW? I would have him and a big mek. I'm just not sure how to move this list forward atm. With the way I have it built I only have 127 points which is not nearly enough for rokkit buggies. (I'm running 6 nobs with 2 squads)
I'm just trying to get the most tournament worth list. I want to be about as cc as an ork army can get. I want fast hard hitting things. I hear ghazzy can help I'm just not sure how to make the last few points of the list work =[

I've tried wagons with and without kannons. For 5 points more you get some more versatility and you can shoot at some armor if need be. It's never been a determining factor in any game I have played, and if you're using your wagons in a way that maximizes their mobility then just take the Big Shoota.

I have to ask, why do you think Ghazkull is a good addition to your BW list? For the load of points Ghazkull costs, his largest benefit is the upgraded Waaagh! which is a guaranteed 6'' fleet. That gives your forces (on the second turn or later) a 25'' assault range provided you have Red Paint on the wagons (13'' in the BW, 6'' run, 6'' assault). Without Ghazkull, this range will be somewhere between 20-25'' when you call your Waaagh! This is also not including the distance you disembark your boyz from your vehicle from. So with Ghaz you're guaranteed the maximum assault range, without it you're probably averaging about 2 feet. For me, I think 2 feet is plenty considering I moved 13'' in the first turn with the wagons before I could call my Waaagh! So you're looking at about 3 feet range from deployment to assault on turn 2 with Waaagh! Unless there is some weird deployment, you should be able to make that assault on turn 2. So that is why I do not think Ghazkull is necessary.

Hmm, I'm just trying to figure out how to finish this list out. I'll post the newest addition to my brainstorming if you guys would like. I need to get something else in but I'm not sure what yet. Kind of at a loss with it. I moved out the meganobs lootas and the kopta and put in nobs. Which were...a huge point sink to say the least...I'll get my book and post it in a second and you guys can tell me where or what I can do to make it better. If I just run the Bshootas and maybe knock a couple points out I might be able to make it a functioning list...Also, how does the KFF work? Is it only for shooting that it gives the save? Or is it assault as well? I'm really trying to get everything that are my rules and stats memorized and learning all the wargear's rules correctly is something I'm really striving for lol. Also, if I have lootas and I deploy them (my last game was spearhead) and they're in the 3x2 right quadrant how does someone sneak in a snikrot or other type of ambush unit on a stationary fire support? I have them in the back and they never REALLY move I just don't know if he can sneak in on me or not...Also, can lootas move and then shoot?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SO new list =D
HQ
Big Mek - KFF - 170

Troops
18 Boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
18 boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
19 i nob 1 nob PK/BP -160

Heavy
BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135

Elites
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
I have like 127 points or some odd number and I'm kind of worried I priced my nobs wrong...

post deleted.

Grace wrote:

mercer wrote:Ghaz isn't need in a Battlewagon list as you have the Battlwagons and RPJ to provide a very good assault range.

Without Ghaz you have no answer to mass Paladins.

Not really sure what Ghaz can do what others can't when against Paladins


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gharron wrote:

mercer wrote:The point is the Battlewagons should be moving forward 12" (13") so won't be firing. You only take a big shoota to absorb the weapon destroyed results. If you're doing shooting then Shoota Boyz will be the way forward

Here's my question. I'm looking at dropping the kannons for big shootas. I never fired a single shot in the game I played the other day and the bshoota taking the weapon destroyed worked brilliantly. I'm about to look at putting ghazzy in this list. What can I do to help this list and is ghazzy a good idea for BW? I would have him and a big mek. I'm just not sure how to move this list forward atm. With the way I have it built I only have 127 points which is not nearly enough for rokkit buggies. (I'm running 6 nobs with 2 squads)
I'm just trying to get the most tournament worth list. I want to be about as cc as an ork army can get. I want fast hard hitting things. I hear ghazzy can help I'm just not sure how to make the last few points of the list work =[

Ghaz is better in a foot list than Battlewagon list as a foot list is slower. You should have a turn 2 assault in considering you start 12" from the board edge, move 13" thanks to RPJ, then next turn move 13" again, bail out 2" and run and assault 4" (average dice roll) giving you a total of 48". I don't think Ghaz is needed, you have speed already.

Hmmm, a Deffkopta would certainly help you for alpha strike, you using any of them? What wargear you got on the Battlewagons?

mercer wrote:

Grace wrote:

mercer wrote:Ghaz isn't need in a Battlewagon list as you have the Battlwagons and RPJ to provide a very good assault range.

Without Ghaz you have no answer to mass Paladins.

Not really sure what Ghaz can do what others can't when against Paladins


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gharron wrote:

mercer wrote:The point is the Battlewagons should be moving forward 12" (13") so won't be firing. You only take a big shoota to absorb the weapon destroyed results. If you're doing shooting then Shoota Boyz will be the way forward

Here's my question. I'm looking at dropping the kannons for big shootas. I never fired a single shot in the game I played the other day and the bshoota taking the weapon destroyed worked brilliantly. I'm about to look at putting ghazzy in this list. What can I do to help this list and is ghazzy a good idea for BW? I would have him and a big mek. I'm just not sure how to move this list forward atm. With the way I have it built I only have 127 points which is not nearly enough for rokkit buggies. (I'm running 6 nobs with 2 squads)
I'm just trying to get the most tournament worth list. I want to be about as cc as an ork army can get. I want fast hard hitting things. I hear ghazzy can help I'm just not sure how to make the last few points of the list work =[

Ghaz is better in a foot list than Battlewagon list as a foot list is slower. You should have a turn 2 assault in considering you start 12" from the board edge, move 13" thanks to RPJ, then next turn move 13" again, bail out 2" and run and assault 4" (average dice roll) giving you a total of 48". I don't think Ghaz is needed, you have speed already.

Hmmm, a Deffkopta would certainly help you for alpha strike, you using any of them? What wargear you got on the Battlewagons?

BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
Those are the BW's for now. Was going to look at them and see what I could do to them. I tried the kopta last time it just kinda sat there lol I dunno I also couldn't bring him in because of my opponents deployment so I had to swing him in the side and try to get rear armor it was a mess...I'm trying to lighten the load to get some buggies or make this list work in some way. Lol I'm not really sure what ghaz brings to the table a normal/meganob doesn't except more attacks and the big WAAAGH

Hmm, I'm just trying to figure out how to finish this list out. I'll post the newest addition to my brainstorming if you guys would like. I need to get something else in but I'm not sure what yet. Kind of at a loss with it. I moved out the meganobs lootas and the kopta and put in nobs. Which were...a huge point sink to say the least...I'll get my book and post it in a second and you guys can tell me where or what I can do to make it better. If I just run the Bshootas and maybe knock a couple points out I might be able to make it a functioning list...Also, how does the KFF work? Is it only for shooting that it gives the save? Or is it assault as well? I'm really trying to get everything that are my rules and stats memorized and learning all the wargear's rules correctly is something I'm really striving for lol. Also, if I have lootas and I deploy them (my last game was spearhead) and they're in the 3x2 right quadrant how does someone sneak in a snikrot or other type of ambush unit on a stationary fire support? I have them in the back and they never REALLY move I just don't know if he can sneak in on me or not...Also, can lootas move and then shoot?

I kind of think you're going a little fast. You need to either sit down and read through the Rule Book more, not just your codex, or you should play some smaller point matches to get an idea for how the game is played. As it stands, there are some really basic rules you are unaware of and that is totally fine. But playing a 2000pt list before you know the rules very well, it won't matter how competitive looking the list is...if you don't have a solid understanding of the rules and tactics you won't have fun and you won't win.

For instance, you should definitely know that Lootas can not move and shoot because they are infantry, and their Deffguns are Heavy D3. Infantry can not move and fire Heavy weapons unless they have the Relentless rule. Vehicles can more and fire Heavy weapons because they are vehicles. You should be able to know off the top of your head the rules for Rapid Fire, Assault, Pistol weapons etc.

A KFF provides a Cover Save. It extends in a 6'' radius from the Big Mek or 6'' from the hull of any vehicle he is in. It provides a 5+ cover save for infantry, 4+ cover save for vehicles (the vehicle counts as being obscured). You should definitely know the difference between your saves. Cover Saves can only provide the save against shooting, you can't really take cover when someone is hacking your face with a close combat weapon. You should know off the top of your head how cover, armor, and invulnerable saves work.

And if someone has a unit that can outflank, if it allows them to choose any table edge like Snikrot does, then your Lootas are not safe near any table edge. That shouldn't really be a concern of yours though, because Lootas will run from some ranged fire sooner than someone successfully rolls for reserves and kills them. That's why you try to get them in cover or out of range of your enemies weapons and start targeting light armor first. If your opponent deepstrikes or outflanks the Lootas, well that's too bad but they just used that whole unit to take care of some Lootas. That's why I like splitting mine into units of 5, because if I lose one that way it's no big deal. These are things you learn by playing, not by talking about it. If you want my opinion, you need to step back and start thinking of some smaller lists and games that you can familiarize yourself with. Starting at the top with 40k will probably make you frustrated. I'm not trying to be a dick, I just went through the exact same thing when I started.

Reckoner wrote:

Hmm, I'm just trying to figure out how to finish this list out. I'll post the newest addition to my brainstorming if you guys would like. I need to get something else in but I'm not sure what yet. Kind of at a loss with it. I moved out the meganobs lootas and the kopta and put in nobs. Which were...a huge point sink to say the least...I'll get my book and post it in a second and you guys can tell me where or what I can do to make it better. If I just run the Bshootas and maybe knock a couple points out I might be able to make it a functioning list...Also, how does the KFF work? Is it only for shooting that it gives the save? Or is it assault as well? I'm really trying to get everything that are my rules and stats memorized and learning all the wargear's rules correctly is something I'm really striving for lol. Also, if I have lootas and I deploy them (my last game was spearhead) and they're in the 3x2 right quadrant how does someone sneak in a snikrot or other type of ambush unit on a stationary fire support? I have them in the back and they never REALLY move I just don't know if he can sneak in on me or not...Also, can lootas move and then shoot?

I kind of think you're going a little fast. You need to either sit down and read through the Rule Book more, not just your codex, or you should play some smaller point matches to get an idea for how the game is played. As it stands, there are some really basic rules you are unaware of and that is totally fine. But playing a 2000pt list before you know the rules very well, it won't matter how competitive looking the list is...if you don't have a solid understanding of the rules and tactics you won't have fun and you won't win.

For instance, you should definitely know that Lootas can not move and shoot because they are infantry, and their Deffguns are Heavy D3. Infantry can not move and fire Heavy weapons unless they have the Relentless rule. Vehicles can more and fire Heavy weapons because they are vehicles. You should be able to know off the top of your head the rules for Rapid Fire, Assault, Pistol weapons etc.

A KFF provides a Cover Save. It extends in a 6'' radius from the Big Mek or 6'' from the hull of any vehicle he is in. It provides a 5+ cover save for infantry, 4+ cover save for vehicles (the vehicle counts as being obscured). You should definitely know the difference between your saves. Cover Saves can only provide the save against shooting, you can't really take cover when someone is hacking your face with a close combat weapon. You should know off the top of your head how cover, armor, and invulnerable saves work.

And if someone has a unit that can outflank, if it allows them to choose any table edge like Snikrot does, then your Lootas are not safe near any table edge. That shouldn't really be a concern of yours though, because Lootas will run from some ranged fire sooner than someone successfully rolls for reserves and kills them. That's why you try to get them in cover or out of range of your enemies weapons and start targeting light armor first. If your opponent deepstrikes or outflanks the Lootas, well that's too bad but they just used that whole unit to take care of some Lootas. That's why I like splitting mine into units of 5, because if I lose one that way it's no big deal. These are things you learn by playing, not by talking about it. If you want my opinion, you need to step back and start thinking of some smaller lists and games that you can familiarize yourself with. Starting at the top with 40k will probably make you frustrated. I'm not trying to be a dick, I just went through the exact same thing when I started.

Well, the problem lies in 2 areas. I live an hour away from my gamestore and i only get to play maybe once a month. Opponents are also quite sparce and as ive said 2k is about all i get :( the other thing with my questions were unit soecific due o mg opponent asking and my inability to answer. He asked specifically and i was unable to answer and ive read my codex three times and of course aftef i asked te question found the answer. Ive only gotten to play 2 games and the first was a 1k points game and i comstantly watch batreps ad read to ensure when i play im not to much of a burden. I was just asking on specific units that i have yet to use (or see) and snikrot was made to seem like he could do alot more than some stealth units. Like my kopta was forced to reserve because my opponent blocked off his table edge and i just didnt understand how snikrot could come in when or wherever he pleased but my kopta wasn't. I realize its a rule thing but i would rather ask stupid questions here than put them in practice against an opponent. So its more a matter of lack of experience understanding and inability to play at low levels or even high level point games.

post deleted

Well, the problem lies in 2 areas. I live an hour away from my gamestore and i only get to play maybe once a month. Opponents are also quite sparce and as ive said 2k is about all i get :( the other thing with my questions were unit soecific due o mg opponent asking and my inability to answer. He asked specifically and i was unable to answer and ive read my codex three times and of course aftef i asked te question found the answer. Ive only gotten to play 2 games and the first was a 1k points game and i comstantly watch batreps ad read to ensure when i play im not to much of a burden. I was just asking on specific units that i have yet to use (or see) and snikrot was made to seem like he could do alot more than some stealth units. Like my kopta was forced to reserve because my opponent blocked off his table edge and i just didnt understand how snikrot could come in when or wherever he pleased but my kopta wasn't. I realize its a rule thing but i would rather ask stupid questions here than put them in practice against an opponent. So its more a matter of lack of experience understanding and inability to play at low levels or even high level point games.

It's alright dude, I admire your interest in the game and it's great. Given your situation I understand that going through a more general introduction to the game is difficult.

My point is, this part of the forum is not for asking questions about rules that can be quickly and easily referenced in a rule book. We build and discuss army lists and tactics. Learning the rules comes through gradual introduction to the game and studying.

I have to ask, you mentioned you read your codex three times but do you have a rule book? That's really what you need to be studying. A rule book will help you understand the game, including other armies. As you have probably noticed, there are many rules in the ork codex that require the 40k rule book to be understood. I know that when I started out warhammer I thought I would just need my codex and I'd be fine learning on the go. This was certainly not the case for me, and I still frequently reference my rule book when I'm drawing up lists and while I'm playing. When an opponent asks you for clarification on a rule, are you going to come ask Dakka every time you don't know? Of course not.

A very handy condensed rule book (has all the rules, just not the fluff writing) comes with every set of Assault on Black Reach. You could probably find one of these for sale cheap on ebay or on the Dakka swap shop if you need one. If you do have a rule book, that's where you should be looking for answers for basic queries.

Until then, I still think you should try to get into lower point games first even if your closest store is an hour away. Heck, I used to play my armies against each other, it's a good way to learn!






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grace wrote:

mercer wrote:Not really sure what Ghaz can do what others can't when against Paladins

Erm lol? Ok, how do YOUR BW list deal with Paladins? Elaborate?

Deffrollas and mobz of boyz with PK Nobz...and my own list has a Burna wagon. I don't see how relying on a single model is going to solve the issue of Paladins. Besides, a unit of a few paladins would probably have an easier time taking down Ghaz than a maxed out boyz squad with a Pk Nob. And they cost the same amount of points.

Reckoner wrote:

Well, the problem lies in 2 areas. I live an hour away from my gamestore and i only get to play maybe once a month. Opponents are also quite sparce and as ive said 2k is about all i get :( the other thing with my questions were unit soecific due o mg opponent asking and my inability to answer. He asked specifically and i was unable to answer and ive read my codex three times and of course aftef i asked te question found the answer. Ive only gotten to play 2 games and the first was a 1k points game and i comstantly watch batreps ad read to ensure when i play im not to much of a burden. I was just asking on specific units that i have yet to use (or see) and snikrot was made to seem like he could do alot more than some stealth units. Like my kopta was forced to reserve because my opponent blocked off his table edge and i just didnt understand how snikrot could come in when or wherever he pleased but my kopta wasn't. I realize its a rule thing but i would rather ask stupid questions here than put them in practice against an opponent. So its more a matter of lack of experience understanding and inability to play at low levels or even high level point games.

It's alright dude, I admire your interest in the game and it's great. Given your situation I understand that going through a more general introduction to the game is difficult.

My point is, this part of the forum is not for asking questions about rules that can be quickly and easily referenced in a rule book. We build and discuss army lists and tactics. Learning the rules comes through gradual introduction to the game and studying.

I have to ask, you mentioned you read your codex three times but do you have a rule book? That's really what you need to be studying. A rule book will help you understand the game, including other armies. As you have probably noticed, there are many rules in the ork codex that require the 40k rule book to be understood. I know that when I started out warhammer I thought I would just need my codex and I'd be fine learning on the go. This was certainly not the case for me, and I still frequently reference my rule book when I'm drawing up lists and while I'm playing. When an opponent asks you for clarification on a rule, are you going to come ask Dakka every time you don't know? Of course not.

A very handy condensed rule book (has all the rules, just not the fluff writing) comes with every set of Assault on Black Reach. You could probably find one of these for sale cheap on ebay or on the Dakka swap shop if you need one. If you do have a rule book, that's where you should be looking for answers for basic queries.

Until then, I still think you should try to get into lower point games first even if your closest store is an hour away. Heck, I used to play my armies against each other, it's a good way to learn!






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grace wrote:

mercer wrote:Not really sure what Ghaz can do what others can't when against Paladins

Erm lol? Ok, how do YOUR BW list deal with Paladins? Elaborate?

Deffrollas and mobz of boyz with PK Nobz...and my own list has a Burna wagon. I don't see how relying on a single model is going to solve the issue of Paladins. Besides, a unit of a few paladins would probably have an easier time taking down Ghaz than a maxed out boyz squad with a Pk Nob. And they cost the same amount of points.

Oh I understand lol it was just a side note question =/ I put up a new list and no one seemed to notice it...

SO new list =D
HQ
Big Mek - KFF - 170

Troops
18 Boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
18 boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
19 i nob 1 nob PK/BP -160

Heavy
BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135

Elites
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
I have like 127 points or some odd number and I'm kind of worried I priced my nobs wrong...

Well assuming your Nobz are costed correctly, it's an interesting list...but a one-trick pony. 5 Wagons is bold, however no support from Lootas or Rokkit Buggies could really play into your opponent's hands. It's the sort of list that would be really successful against a standard gun-line army. But against something more complex, you would probably have to break the BW formation and having only 1 KFF will make it tricky.

Personally, I sort of like it. You leave nothing behind and the whole list is just one big charge. Give it a shot to determine its strengths and weaknesses. If you have points left over, Grot Riggers can be a good addition to your BWs (in every wagon except the one the Mek rides in, since Mek's tools does the same thing).

Edit: I just noticed this, your Big Mek with KFF definitely does not cost 170 pts. He should be 85 pts. Your wagons are also costed wrong, they should be 130 pts each. So I really don't know what your Nobz cost....you need to work out the math and come back with a revised list bro.

I believe that is 2 Big Meks with KFF

Reckoner wrote:

SO new list =D
HQ
Big Mek - KFF - 170

Troops
18 Boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
18 boys 1 nob PK/BP -154
19 i nob 1 nob PK/BP -160

Heavy
BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135

Elites
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
6 nobs -Painboy, PK, PK/BP, PK banner, Normal, Big choppa -cybork
I have like 127 points or some odd number and I'm kind of worried I priced my nobs wrong...

Well assuming your Nobz are costed correctly, it's an interesting list...but a one-trick pony. 5 Wagons is bold, however no support from Lootas or Rokkit Buggies could really play into your opponent's hands. It's the sort of list that would be really successful against a standard gun-line army. But against something more complex, you would probably have to break the BW formation and having only 1 KFF will make it tricky.

Personally, I sort of like it. You leave nothing behind and the whole list is just one big charge. Give it a shot to determine its strengths and weaknesses. If you have points left over, Grot Riggers can be a good addition to your BWs (in every wagon except the one the Mek rides in, since Mek's tools does the same thing).

Edit: I just noticed this, your Big Mek with KFF definitely does not cost 170 pts. He should be 85 pts. Your wagons are also costed wrong, they should be 130 pts each. So I really don't know what your Nobz cost....you need to work out the math and come back with a revised list bro.

yeah lol it's the price of 2 big meks XD and that was the idea of having one big charge XD I was going to put in two squads of gretchin to hold the back line
Also the wagons should be correct on points unless I didn't add something when I typed it...I did I have them as kannons on my list I wrote! Sorry about that! I'm still kind of...on the fence to say the least with kannons. Especially with a charge at all costs list like this...

I personally don't bother with grots anymore in KPs they are just a liability, In capture and control/Seize ground the enemy doesn't have to put that much on them to make them lose their objective. Maybe in Seize Ground but in Capture and Control I don't trust them to hold an objective so end up putting another troop unit there instead.

post deleted.

tboneswoodhouse wrote:I personally don't bother with grots anymore in KPs they are just a liability, In capture and control/Seize ground the enemy doesn't have to put that much on them to make them lose their objective. Maybe in Seize Ground but in Capture and Control I don't trust them to hold an objective so end up putting another troop unit there instead.

I'm not really sure what to do with this list to make it anymore viable or what else I could do. My meganobs did fine but they were eating by JOTWW and that's why I'm backing off them. The only problem with my other list would be scoring units for objective games. I could drop the kopta for a boys squad but I'm not sure what either list needs to make it a handle any sort of game list...

Warbuggies with Rokkits or Koptas?

tboneswoodhouse wrote:Warbuggies with Rokkits or Koptas?

Well, as it stands I only have 127 points barring any math mistakes I may have made. Which doesn't really leave me with alot I could do 3 squads of 1 kopta..
I may have to drop a nob or two and see what happens there it might open the points for 2 3 man rokkit buggy squads. I'm just not sure what to do with objective games. This list is just so fast and hard. It's either an amazing win or a horrid defeat imo.

Agreed your number one goal is to table the opponent. How many points do you have the Nobs at? I have them at 280

tboneswoodhouse wrote:Agreed your number one goal is to table the opponent. How many points do you have the Nobs at? I have them at 280

Yeah I have 2 squads at 280 apiece all the wagons are either 130 with a bshoota or 135 with a kannon Then the boys squads and meks. I could also do a couple of boys in trukks mobs...for objective gather late game and make some cc support?

Gharron wrote:

BW Rpj. rolla Plates, Bshoota -135
BW RPJ, Rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
BW - RPJ, rolla, plates, Bshoota -135
Those are the BW's for now. Was going to look at them and see what I could do to them. I tried the kopta last time it just kinda sat there lol I dunno I also couldn't bring him in because of my opponents deployment so I had to swing him in the side and try to get rear armor it was a mess...I'm trying to lighten the load to get some buggies or make this list work in some way. Lol I'm not really sure what ghaz brings to the table a normal/meganob doesn't except more attacks and the big WAAAGH

Those Battlewagons are ok.

I am not sure why your Deffkopter is sitting there for. If you get first turn you scout the Deffkopta and gt a alpha strike in. If you go second you have more options; scout anyway to act as distraction, will haev 3+ cover save for going flat out and asborb some fire power. Outflank and be annoying or hide about and turbo boosting to capture objectives later in the game. Deffkoptas bring a massive amount to the table, though you should really have two.

Grace wrote:Erm lol? Ok, how do YOUR BW list deal with Paladins? Elaborate?

You never answered my question, what can Ghaz do what others can't when against Paladins?

Grace wrote:

Reckoner wrote:
Deffrollas and mobz of boyz with PK Nobz...and my own list has a Burna wagon. I don't see how relying on a single model is going to solve the issue of Paladins. Besides, a unit of a few paladins would probably have an easier time taking down Ghaz than a maxed out boyz squad with a Pk Nob. And they cost the same amount of points.

Before you recommend all those, have you already calculated the odds?

Also, you send in boys squad with Pk Nob into Paladins? Really? Would you show me the odds?

Uhh...yes. I play GK and Orks. Calculate the odds yourself. 120 Attacks on the charge in a unit of 30 boyz (not including the PK) vs. what, 7 attacks from Ghaz? Bear in mind that the Paladins can focus their attacks on a single character and not on a Nob, and also that Paladins get 2 attacks each for a total of 10 (assuming they are in a unit of 5). If they make those count against a single Character, there goes your assault. Against a mob of 30, it's not nearly enough to slow them. A mob of 30 boyz with pk bp nob costs roughly the same as Ghaz, and doesn't take up an HQ slot. A mob of 20 boyz is the largest size squad you can use in a BW list, which costs about 60 pts less. You're still getting over 80 attacks, you still should have a fearless squad after the first assault. Paladins lose to overwhelming dice rolls.

Give some shoota-skorcha's to some nobs somewhere. People who don't like shoota-skorchas...well...maybe you'll be one of them, but I love 'em. (TL is always TL, skorcha is one shot extra but template ST 5 AP 4 what a shot. Course you might ruin a good charge...with burnt bodies...muhahaha.)
Two Koptas, TL rokkits, 90pnts, buzzsaw on one...buzzsaw on both...140pnts...but you do not have it...you can afford to drop a WAAAGH!!! Banner. gives you 15pnts there.
A squad of 20 shootas in the back, 120pnts solid. Make it 21. 126.
2 seperate squads of ten shootas, whenever they get shot at, go to ground. They'll never run.
I usually do that, always saves my objective, one squad guarding the other squad, (but I also always add big shootas to my boyz. It helps pick off infantry, hasn't failed me)
DeffDread with two megablastas. Wait, how much is that, I never use those...um...might be exepensive...nope, 105pnts

Could also try five warbikers...but...125 pnts and they'd only be good for shooting and exsorbing fire. (3+ cover save on turbo)

I'd personally go 20 shootas, split in to two squads of ten or just as a whole.

My other pick is koptas. I love koptas, though they are hit and miss.

I didn't mention warbuggies, but 3 with TL rokkit is only 105, and you can field them seperately, which is really nice. Have extra points to give to nobz or wagons now.

Dred might be interesting, use extra points on your nobz or add a kannon to some of your BW's. (alla buggies.)

Ghaz has never failed me in a 2k point game, does anyone have a memory of Ghaz failing in a 2k pnt game?? That's my only defense for him against math or common sense which says just bring more boyz.

I love warbikers, but they don't get love from a lot of others, or without a nob with PK, their guns really are beautiful gunz though.

Did I mention that my big shootas on the boyz that stay in the back have more than once knocked Dark Eldar Vehicles out of the sky on their way to my objective, and that made me pretty happy I tell you.

Just throwing ideas

Runna wrote:Give some shoota-skorcha's to some nobs somewhere. People who don't like shoota-skorchas...well...maybe you'll be one of them, but I love 'em. (TL is always TL, skorcha is one shot extra but template ST 5 AP 4 what a shot. Course you might ruin a good charge...with burnt bodies...muhahaha.)
Two Koptas, TL rokkits, 90pnts, buzzsaw on one...buzzsaw on both...140pnts...but you do not have it...you can afford to drop a WAAAGH!!! Banner. gives you 15pnts there.
A squad of 20 shootas in the back, 120pnts solid. Make it 21. 126.
2 seperate squads of ten shootas, whenever they get shot at, go to ground. They'll never run.
I usually do that, always saves my objective, one squad guarding the other squad, (but I also always add big shootas to my boyz. It helps pick off infantry, hasn't failed me)
DeffDread with two megablastas. Wait, how much is that, I never use those...um...might be exepensive...nope, 105pnts

Could also try five warbikers...but...125 pnts and they'd only be good for shooting and exsorbing fire. (3+ cover save on turbo)

I'd personally go 20 shootas, split in to two squads of ten or just as a whole.

My other pick is koptas. I love koptas, though they are hit and miss.

I didn't mention warbuggies, but 3 with TL rokkit is only 105, and you can field them seperately, which is really nice. Have extra points to give to nobz or wagons now.

Dred might be interesting, use extra points on your nobz or add a kannon to some of your BW's. (alla buggies.)

Ghaz has never failed me in a 2k point game, does anyone have a memory of Ghaz failing in a 2k pnt game?? That's my only defense for him against math or common sense which says just bring more boyz.

I love warbikers, but they don't get love from a lot of others, or without a nob with PK, their guns really are beautiful gunz though.

Did I mention that my big shootas on the boyz that stay in the back have more than once knocked Dark Eldar Vehicles out of the sky on their way to my objective, and that made me pretty happy I tell you.

Just throwing ideas

Hmm I just don't feel like I played my kopta correctly. It sat in reserves til three and I couldn't really do much except run it until I got the saw into action. I think it was his deployment that wouldn't allow me to use it correctly I'm not totally sure =/ I could do some buggies it's just this list is so fast and heavy it's hard to let anything sit in the back...maybe I should try the 3 squads of 1 buggy thing...I'm just left wondering about more boys "Boys before toys" I could take trukks and have two squads with trukks and just leave me out of LoS with the truk and just objective hold. I could do shootas like you said or I could just leave me in the trukk with shootas...hmm

Post deleted.

tboneswoodhouse wrote:Agreed your number one goal is to table the opponent. How many points do you have the Nobs at? I have them at 280

This is the problem with the game right now. People feel that they have to table people to win. You win by playing for the objective. If you by chance table him then Good for you. No one should ever try to table someone.


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I personally just shoot Paladins. Or charge them with Dreads. Hoping there is no Libby to up there str and 2d6 armor pen.

Ghaz is no slouch. He is well worth the points that he is. but I feel you lose so many more models when you take him. I don't feel he is at all needed in a BW list. But If you feel you want him then that is your choice.

Now take in point this debate. Ghaz versus GK's(Pallies) The turn he waaghs he will be tough to deal with for sure and probably win combat. But he will die to GK's easier then he should. Overwhelming Force/power weapons. His waagh can only last for so long. Make sure you use it when it is needed the most, if not he is just another boss.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

tboneswoodhouse wrote:Agreed your number one goal is to table the opponent. How many points do you have the Nobs at? I have them at 280

This is the problem with the game right now. People feel that they have to table people to win. You win by playing for the objective. If you by chance table him then Good for you. No one should ever try to table someone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I personally just shoot Paladins. Or charge them with Dreads. Hoping there is no Libby to up there str and 2d6 armor pen.

Ghaz is no slouch. He is well worth the points that he is. but I feel you lose so many more models when you take him. I don't feel he is at all needed in a BW list. But If you feel you want him then that is your choice.

Now take in point this debate. Ghaz versus GK's(Pallies) The turn he waaghs he will be tough to deal with for sure and probably win combat. But he will die to GK's easier then he should. Overwhelming Force/power weapons. His waagh can only last for so long. Make sure you use it when it is needed the most, if not he is just another boss.

Well it's not so much about tabling it's just this list is lacking somewhere in the holding upbjectives side lol I'm still toying with 2 boys squads in the back holding upjectives...or some lootas I just don't know it's not so much about an utter win as the list just does it well

Well when I play Orks. I don't worry about "my home" objective. Which really is in only one mission. You only need one to win. Let it be theres. Why waste points sitting on an objective? Marines can do it because they have the armor, and the weapons to still give some support.

Now with the mission that you have d3+2. Well that is simple. Put the objectives where you plan on being. Towards the middle of the board or the other side of the board. That is where Orks should be. In the deployment zone by the end of the game. If you are not then you have allready lost, IMHO. Especially if you are Mech like you are.

Lootas are awesome, but I have never used them in a BW list. I just don't feel they fit. Even though I am a big Lootas fan. They don't really have the protection that they really need.

Its really tough for me to help, as I play my Wagon list totally different.

Better to run two koptas if your putting them in reserves, or just start them on the board and turbo them to the flanks of your enemies lines, even if they get shot down, with 2 wounds and T 5 (4 for ID) and the 3+ cover save they eat up a decent amount of your enemies first turn fire, giving your BW's the chance to move up. (If you go first or second I suppose.)
If you were to go second you could also Scout move, via turbo, to places where the enemy would have to prepare for them to pop up and attack, changing your opponents original tactics, as now they have two random tank hunters to worry about as well as five BW's that are very obviously coming straight up the front, but they don't want their rear armor accesible to the rokkits.

Going first, after a turbo scout move, means you get a 36" move, 42" charge and TL rokkit shot on whatever you feel like taking out.

So, reserves is something you put them in only if you feel you can win the game without them, but might need them later on due to bad dice rolls or your opponent making moves you didn't forsee, like a back-up plan.

Two seems neccessary with them for some reason, one usually busts pretty bad. In big games I usually run all three. (AOBR)

I have mixed feeling about koptas. I have tried them. They have not worked. I feel adding one is not a problem. It adds that lone chance to kill somehting that could hurt. If you do use more then one, make sure they are in seperate squads. Their low LD makes them useless in bigger squads.

You can try them out, but They might not pay out for you all the time. They do have their potential though.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Well when I play Orks. I don't worry about "my home" objective. Which really is in only one mission. You only need one to win. Let it be theres. Why waste points sitting on an objective? Marines can do it because they have the armor, and the weapons to still give some support.

Now with the mission that you have d3+2. Well that is simple. Put the objectives where you plan on being. Towards the middle of the board or the other side of the board. That is where Orks should be. In the deployment zone by the end of the game. If you are not then you have allready lost, IMHO. Especially if you are Mech like you are.

Lootas are awesome, but I have never used them in a BW list. I just don't feel they fit. Even though I am a big Lootas fan. They don't really have the protection that they really need.

Its really tough for me to help, as I play my Wagon list totally different.

How does your BW list look? I just have 100 points leftover XD i have enough for some bikes and I see what you mean about it being there's. that's all I ever planned on anyway XD I could lay it as close to the middle as possible I suppose. I dunno what to do XD i've been trying and trying to figure it out and I have enough to run three squads of 1 buggie. Does anyone else have a list sitting around I could maybe use as a template?