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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





col_impact wrote:
blaktoof wrote:
 BlackTalos wrote:
blaktoof wrote:
the part you bolded and quoted is not an actual rules quote I can find anywhere.


Only the part in the quotes is from RaW. the other is my wording to try and make the point clearer.

blaktoof wrote:
regardless "deep strike reserve" according to the rulebook is the state of a unit being held in reserve and arriving by deepstrike.


The Underlined is not listed anywhere in the Rulebook.

Deep Strike Reserves is a subgroup of Reserves. All Units that Deep Strike must be in Deep Strike Reserves. But not all Units in Deep Strike Reserves can/will Deep Strike.
If A is B, B is not always A. You are making that mistake.

Models embarked on Drop Pods, by RaW, are in Deep Strike Reserves, and so is their Transport. But not all models Deep Strike Reserves have the ability to Deep Strike.

Do you agree with this at least?
We can then move on to how the Formation specifically allows all Units is Deep Strike Reserves to charge on a Turn they arrive, regardless of if they Deep Strike or not.


When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve). Some units must arrive by Deep Strike. They always begin the game in Reserve and always arrive by Deep Strike.


Arriving by Deep Strike
Roll for the arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows:
• First, place one model from the unit anywhere on the table, in the position where you would like it to arrive, and roll for scatter to determine the model’s final position. If a vehicle scatters when arriving via Deep Strike, do not change its facing – it must continue to face the same direction as it did before you rolled for scatter.
• Next, the unit’s remaining models are arranged around the first one. Models must be placed in base contact with the first model and begin to form a circle around it. When the first circle is complete, a further concentric circle must be placed with each model touching the circle inside it. Each circle must include as many models as will fit. • Models deploying via Deep Strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain.


first part- unit is in reserves, you state to opponent it will arrive by deep strike (this is called deepstrike reserves)

following that in the rules is arriving by deepstrike.

There are no other rules for deep strike reserves other than being in reserves, and arriving by deepstrike reserves.

the embarked unit does not follow the rules for arriving by deepstrike, nor does it gain a rule anywhere that it counts as.



This rules statement would seem to contradict your argument entirely

Spoiler:
In the Movement phase during which they arrive, Deep Striking units may not move any
further, other than to disembark from a Deep Striking Transport vehicle if they are in one.


The rules are calling a unit arriving via Deep Strike inside a Deep Striking Transport a Deep Striking unit.


and this ruling

In that turn’s Assault phase, however, these units cannot charge. This also applies to units that have disembarked from Transports that arrived by Deep Strike that turn.


in the same section shows that units embarked are seperate from the unit that actually arrived by deepstriking.

its worth noting by RAW a unit inside a deepstriking transport does not gain deepstrike, and is never arriving by deepstrike, as per the rules "arriving by deepstrike" so from a RAW standpoint

In the Movement phase during which they arrive, Deep Striking units may not move any
further, other than to disembark from a Deep Striking Transport vehicle if they are in one

the unit embarked does not have deepstrike, so how is it a deep striking unit?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BlackTalos wrote:
 Hulksmash wrote:
Blaktoof actually made me go back and check to see if other people agreed with him and just bowed out....Nope. Not once it was actually explained to them....

So like I said, Blaktoof is the only one who really disagrees....That's the closest you'll ever get to a 40k consensus in YMDC


Although that really doesn't help in the discussion. Trying to explain how everyone else sees it (If, as you say, so many agree on it) might be more useful.
If we can never convince him, like i have never been convinced for other RaW Discussions, you just have to leave it at "agree to disagree".
blaktoof wrote:
your third point is a leap and has no rules basis.

the unit has not arrived from deepstrike reserves.

deep strike reserves is arriving from reserves by deepstrike, to arrive from reserves by deepstrike requires that you deploy a model then roll for scatter..

one of the units that arrives from the combined reserves roll does this, and as such arrives by deepstrike, the other disembarks from a unit that arrived by deepstrike.

further the pod does not "arrive from deepstrike reserves" as there is no such rule, as per the rules for the pod it arrives from reserves.

At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods (rounding up) automatically arrive from Reserve.

note how it doesn't state it arrives from deep strike reserves. Because there is no such thing, as per the BRB arriving by deepstrike while in reserves is sometimes called "deepstrike reserves"

How does a pod arrive from reserves? by deepstriking.

It then follows the rules for "arriving by deepstriking"

how does the unit inside arrive? it arrived from reserves embarked upon a transport that arrived by deepstriking. Are we told the unit counts as deepstriking, or arriving by deepstrike? no.

we are told the unit can disembark, we are further told under deepstriking that units disembarking from a transport that deepstriked (note how they never say the unit is deepstriking..) may not assault that turn.

note how the time is taken in the rules to seperate the unit that deepstrikes, and the embarked squad.

you have no actual rules support that an embarked unit is arriving by deepstrike.

further it is obvious the unit is not arriving by deepstrike, because no rule states it counts as, is, nor does it follow the rules for arriving by deepstrike.

if you have a rules quote somewhere that says otherwise, please provide it.


I don't need a rule to prove that an embarked unit is arriving by deepstrike.
I fully agree with you, the unit is not arriving by deepstrike. That is RaW.

But you cannot disprove the fact that the Unit is in Deep Strike Reserves. I'll quote it to you word for word:
"Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike Reserves."

The Dreadnaught is in Deep Strike Reserves, Yes or No?

Just answer that, and we can move on to the next part. (Provide some RaW for No, too, because i've got clear proof right there.)




as has already been quoted for you and disproved, it is held in deep strike reserves, but it does not arrive by deepstrike. in the rules for drop pod assault it even states the pod is arriving, not the pod and the unit despite the pod+unit being held in reserves. Because has already been stated for you by clear RAW proof only the pod is arriving by deepstrike.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/18 17:44:06


 
   
Made in gb
Confessor Of Sins





Newton Aycliffe

col_impact wrote:
Spoiler:
In the Movement phase during which they arrive, Deep Striking units may not move any
further, other than to disembark from a Deep Striking Transport vehicle if they are in one.


The rules are calling a unit arriving via Deep Strike inside a Deep Striking Transport a Deep Striking unit.


I disagree, a Unit arriving embarked on a Transport that is Deep Striking cannot be Deep Striking. There is enough proof against that.

Units aboard a Drop Pod are NOT Deep Striking. They don't even have the rule? (In most cases)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/18 17:45:57


DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage.
Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





nosferatu1001 wrote:
Blaktoof - another bunch of assertions there. Easiest one for you to prove - prove that to have arrived from ds reserve type unit must have arrived by deepstrike. Page and graph.


another bunch of comments and questions without any rules support there.

permissive rules set, prove that to have arrived in a transport that deepstrikes counts as arriving by deepstrike given the rules for arriving by deepstrike rather than disembarking from a unit that followed the "arriving by deepstrike" rules.

or prove that a unit in a transport counts as deep striking despite not having deepstrike or arriving by deepstrike.

page and graph.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 BlackTalos wrote:
col_impact wrote:
Spoiler:
In the Movement phase during which they arrive, Deep Striking units may not move any
further, other than to disembark from a Deep Striking Transport vehicle if they are in one.


The rules are calling a unit arriving via Deep Strike inside a Deep Striking Transport a Deep Striking unit.


I disagree, a Unit arriving embarked on a Transport that is Deep Striking cannot be Deep Striking. There is enough proof against that.

Units aboard a Drop Pod are NOT Deep Striking. They don't even have the rule? (In most cases)


The rules are clearly calling a unit that is disembarking from a Deep Striking transport a Deep Striking unit (ie a unit that has arrived from Deep Strike reserves). Per the rules, Deep Strike is sometimes called Deep Strike Reserves. A unit that arrived from Deep Strike reserves is a Deep Striking unit.

Otherwise feel free to explain how the rules I quoted is even logically possible.
   
Made in gb
Confessor Of Sins





Newton Aycliffe

blaktoof wrote:
it is held in deep strike reserves, but it does not arrive by deepstrike.


Absolutely correct!

So, when you read:
Augur triangulation:
If a friendly unit with the Blood angels faction arrives from deep strike reserve(...)


Do you agree that the Unit in question must arrive on the board? Yes/No?

So, the Dreadnaught, who was "held in deep strike reserves", is he arriving on the board? Yes/No?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
col_impact wrote:
The rules are clearly calling a unit that is disembarking from a Deep Striking transport a Deep Striking unit (ie a unit that has arrived from Deep Strike reserves). Per the rules, Deep Strike is sometimes called Deep Strike Reserves. A unit that arrived from Deep Strike reserves is a Deep Striking unit.

Otherwise feel free to explain how the rules I quoted is even logically possible.


That phrase, as i have said before, is very ambiguous.
What it means:
A) Deep Striking units may not move any further
B) a Deep Striking Transport vehicle can "disembark" its occupants.

Even though you may link - Occupants > Deep Striking units - , that is not possible, because you would have to prove:
1)How they followed the Deep Strike rule
2)How they obtain the rule, as we know transports don't confer them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/18 17:55:23


DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage.
Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





The issue is that despite the blood angel codex saying

1- the drop pod + embarked unit are held in deepstrike reserves.

it also goes on to say

2- the drop pod arrives from reserves. and leaves out that the unit is arriving, it does not state the drop pod + unit. This shows the unit is not arriving the same way the drop pod from the rules, if the unit were it would state drop pod + unit again. Yes they are both in reserves, but they are not both arriving the same way.

3- the BRB states that "deep strike reserves" means the unit is in reserves and is arriving by deepstriking.

4- the BRB then goes on to detail with rules what arriving by deepstrike means, only one of the units involved in the drop pod+embarked units is actually following the rules for arriving by deepstrike- the pod.

5- there is no rule for embarked units counting as arriving by deepstrike if their transport arrived by deepstrike.

6- The BA rules that have the pod+embarked unit in reserves, but then just the pod arrives coincide with the rules in the BRB that only the pod is following the rules for arriving by deepstrike, and as such only the pod is arriving by deepstrike from resrerves, the embarked unit is arriving from reserves but not deepstrike reserves because it is not able to follow the rules for "arriving by deepstrike" because according to the BRB deep strike reserves means you are arriving by deepstrike which has very set rules.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 BlackTalos wrote:
blaktoof wrote:
it is held in deep strike reserves, but it does not arrive by deepstrike.


Absolutely correct!

So, when you read:
Augur triangulation:
If a friendly unit with the Blood angels faction arrives from deep strike reserve(...)


Do you agree that the Unit in question must arrive on the board? Yes/No?

So, the Dreadnaught, who was "held in deep strike reserves", is he arriving on the board? Yes/No?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
col_impact wrote:
The rules are clearly calling a unit that is disembarking from a Deep Striking transport a Deep Striking unit (ie a unit that has arrived from Deep Strike reserves). Per the rules, Deep Strike is sometimes called Deep Strike Reserves. A unit that arrived from Deep Strike reserves is a Deep Striking unit.

Otherwise feel free to explain how the rules I quoted is even logically possible.


That phrase, as i have said before, is very ambiguous.
What it means:
A) Deep Striking units may not move any further
B) a Deep Striking Transport vehicle can "disembark" its occupants.

Even though you may link - Occupants > Deep Striking units - , that is not possible, because you would have to prove:
1)How they followed the Deep Strike rule
2)How they obtain the rule, as we know transports don't confer them.


I don't have to prove anything. The rule clearly indicates that a unit that arrives from Deep Strike reserves on a Deep Striking transport is considered a Deep Striking unit. It does not have to have the Deep Strike USR to be a Deep Striking unit. It just has to have arrived from Deep Strike reserves. In this case on a Deep Striking transport.

The logic of the rule statement supports my reading. If we follow your reading, the statement makes no sense.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





It actually does not clearly indicate that.

it clearly indicates that a Deep striking unit disembarking from a deep striking transport...

however the embarked unit does not have deep strike, is not deepstriking, and is not following the rules 'arriving by deepstrike'
   
Made in gb
Confessor Of Sins





Newton Aycliffe

blaktoof wrote:
The issue is that despite the blood angel codex saying

1- the drop pod + embarked unit are held in deepstrike reserves.

it also goes on to say

2- the drop pod arrives from reserves. and leaves out that the unit is arriving, it does not state the drop pod + unit. This shows the unit is not arriving the same way the drop pod from the rules, if the unit were it would state drop pod + unit again. Yes they are both in reserves, but they are not both arriving the same way.

3- the BRB states that "deep strike reserves" means the unit is in reserves and is arriving by deepstriking.

4- the BRB then goes on to detail with rules what arriving by deepstrike means, only one of the units involved in the drop pod+embarked units is actually following the rules for arriving by deepstrike- the pod.

5- there is no rule for embarked units counting as arriving by deepstrike if their transport arrived by deepstrike.

6- The BA rules that have the pod+embarked unit in reserves, but then just the pod arrives coincide with the rules in the BRB that only the pod is following the rules for arriving by deepstrike, and as such only the pod is arriving by deepstrike from resrerves, the embarked unit is arriving from reserves but not deepstrike reserves because it is not able to follow the rules for "arriving by deepstrike" because according to the BRB deep strike reserves means you are arriving by deepstrike which has very set rules.


I agree, but can you just answer these please?
Augur triangulation:
If a friendly unit with the Blood angels faction arrives from deep strike reserve(...)

Do you agree that the Unit in question must arrive on the board? Yes/No?
So, the Dreadnaught, who was "held in deep strike reserves", is he arriving on the board? Yes/No?

DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage.
Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




blaktoof wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Blaktoof - another bunch of assertions there. Easiest one for you to prove - prove that to have arrived from ds reserve type unit must have arrived by deepstrike. Page and graph.


another bunch of comments and questions without any rules support there.

permissive rules set, prove that to have arrived in a transport that deepstrikes counts as arriving by deepstrike given the rules for arriving by deepstrike rather than disembarking from a unit that followed the "arriving by deepstrike" rules.

or prove that a unit in a transport counts as deep striking despite not having deepstrike or arriving by deepstrike.

page and graph.

Wrong, as ever. Not sure why posters engage you any longer.

I'm asking the bit before. I'm asking you to prove that your assertion - that units arriving from deepstrike reserve MUST have used Deepstrike - is correct.

That's it. I'm sure you can do that?

So, page and graph. Or admit your assertion has no rules basis.

I mean, we all know it's without basis, but please, prove or retract.
   
Made in nl
Loyal Necron Lychguard



Netherlands

blaktoof wrote:
lets not leave out the rules you are skipping.
1. a furiouso is held in combined reserves with a dreadnaut, one roll will be made and they will arrive together. despite that the furioso does not have the DS special rule, the rules for DS state a model may be embarked on the DSing transport. The models embarked do not gain deep strike, and are not listed as counting as deep striking.

Did I say the Furioso itself Deep Strike'd? No.
Does that matter? No.
Because the Formation only asks: "Did he go from Deep Strike Reserve to the Battlefield? If yes, let it charge!"
2. turn one the drop pod goes from reserves onto the battlefield by deepstriking, it follows the rules for arriving by deepstrike.
3. The furioso disembarks from the drop pod which arrived by deepstrike. It does not follow the rules for arriving by deepstrike, as it was disembarking from another unit that arrived by deepstrike and itself was not deepstriking.
4. the formation tells us that units arriving by deepstrike reserve can charge, the BRB is overruled however the furioso did not arrive by deepstrike it disembarked from a transport that did, and does not count as deep striking nor did it gain the deep strike rule.

2. Correct.
3. Correct.
4. Dude, do you even read your own lines?
Arriving by Deep Strike != Arriving from Deep Strike Reserve.
The Furioso did not arrive by Deep Strike, but he DID arrive from Deep Strike Reserve.

At least we now know why you are wrong.
You do not understand the difference between those two.
   
Made in gb
Confessor Of Sins





Newton Aycliffe

col_impact wrote:
I don't have to prove anything. The rule clearly indicates that a unit that arrives from Deep Strike reserves on a Deep Striking transport is considered a Deep Striking unit. It does not have to have the Deep Strike USR to be a Deep Striking unit. It just has to have arrived from Deep Strike reserves. In this case on a Deep Striking transport.

The logic of the rule statement supports my reading. If we follow your reading, the statement makes no sense.


They are in Deep Strike Reserve. But it is impossible for them to be Deep Striking. Proven.
Logic supports the fact that the embarked Unit cannot be Deep Striking.

The rule you quoted does not "clearly indicate". It insinuates. Which can be ambiguous.

DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage.
Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. 
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




Little Rock, Arkansas

2k list made under the assumption that drop pods on t1 after the raven would allow for t1 assaults, and that the beacons need only be in the ravens, not on foot, just to show what the list might look like. (If you don't agree with the assumptions, goodie for you. I've read the whole thread already. If you don't have a new reason to disagree with it, please don't reply to this post just to repeat the same disagreements.)

Formation: 3 ravens 30 tac marines, melta/AC on ravens, no specials on tacs other than the free beacons. 1020

Formation: 1 5 man vanguard with packs, 2 5 man asm squads with packs. 265 (for some more turn 2 assaulting.)

Baal strike force:
Jp relic priest as warlord (will stay with vanguard from the above formation)
2 drop pods of 5 tac marines as troop tax and turn 2+ assault, or to land in corners and hide if ravens fail to come in turn 1.
3 5 man asm squads in pods, 1 with melta bomb sarge.
1 DC dread in pod. (715 in the detachment)

Assuming the ravens come in, that's an init 5 DC dread, and 2 init 5 furious charge asm squads that get stuck into assault. Meanwhile, 3 ravens worth of firepower go at any priority targets, such as good counter assault units, or squishy units hiding in transports.
Turn 2. Vanguard vet formation with priest warlord comes in, scores free hits on things, then can assault. Ravens drop to hover, blow away anything else overly threatening to them, and let out 30 tac marines to shoot or assault. The taxicals and last asm squad from the main detachment also may come in now, and contribute to the massive assault wave, or shooting.

Expected result: light resistance on turn 3, turn 4 tabling against most armies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/18 18:12:31


20000+ points
Tournament reports:
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





nosferatu1001 wrote:
blaktoof wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Blaktoof - another bunch of assertions there. Easiest one for you to prove - prove that to have arrived from ds reserve type unit must have arrived by deepstrike. Page and graph.


another bunch of comments and questions without any rules support there.

permissive rules set, prove that to have arrived in a transport that deepstrikes counts as arriving by deepstrike given the rules for arriving by deepstrike rather than disembarking from a unit that followed the "arriving by deepstrike" rules.

or prove that a unit in a transport counts as deep striking despite not having deepstrike or arriving by deepstrike.

page and graph.

Wrong, as ever. Not sure why posters engage you any longer.

I'm asking the bit before. I'm asking you to prove that your assertion - that units arriving from deepstrike reserve MUST have used Deepstrike - is correct.

That's it. I'm sure you can do that?

So, page and graph. Or admit your assertion has no rules basis.

I mean, we all know it's without basis, but please, prove or retract.


im amazed you have not been permanently banned from this site so many times, as you are completely classy and polite, and always make statements only with actual rules support.

When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve).


a unit arriving by deepstrike in reserves is in deep strike reserves.

now if you can post a quote page and para that a unit in a embarked transport is following the rules for arriving by deepstrike.

or a quote anywhere that you can arrive from deepstrike reserve, a state of being in reserves and telling your opponent they are arriving by deepstrike, without arriving by deepstrike- which is the rules for deploying by deepstriking ie placing a model, rolling for scatter...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/18 18:11:26


 
   
Made in gb
Confessor Of Sins





Newton Aycliffe

Blacktoof, could i just get you to read and answer these 2, so that i may show you where your error is?
Most of what you are saying is correct apart from where you confuse "Deep Strike Reserves" = "Deep Striking".
I am trying to show you how a Unit "held in deep strike reserves" (by your words) does not mean it must Deep Strike (It is also impossible for it to do so).

 BlackTalos wrote:
I agree, but can you just answer these please?
Augur triangulation:
If a friendly unit with the Blood angels faction arrives from deep strike reserve(...)

Do you agree that the Unit in question must arrive on the board? Yes/No?
So, the Dreadnaught, who was "held in deep strike reserves", is he arriving on the board? Yes/No?

DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage.
Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Sigh, so that's a no, you cannot prove it.

The embarked unit ARE in DS reserves - the rules quote proving this has been given to you.

They then Arrive.

So they have arrived from where they were. Which is DS Reserve. Can you add the two together? Note the utter lack of the need to Deepstrike in those cites?

So, can you prove that you need to deepstrike to have arrived from DS reserve? You do understand the difference between DS and DS reserve?

Page and graph. Third time. I presume you will further dissemble and not respond, just showing how tenuous your position is, as your central premise has zero rules support. A common theme.
   
Made in nl
Loyal Necron Lychguard



Netherlands

Or better!
I put a unit in Deep Strike Reserve.
Now he appears on the Battlefield.

Where did he came from?
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






Home Base: Waconia, MN (Minneapolis)

Kangodo wrote:
Or better!
I put a unit in Deep Strike Reserve.
Now he appears on the Battlefield.

Where did he came from?


Magic!!!!!

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 BlackTalos wrote:
col_impact wrote:
I don't have to prove anything. The rule clearly indicates that a unit that arrives from Deep Strike reserves on a Deep Striking transport is considered a Deep Striking unit. It does not have to have the Deep Strike USR to be a Deep Striking unit. It just has to have arrived from Deep Strike reserves. In this case on a Deep Striking transport.

The logic of the rule statement supports my reading. If we follow your reading, the statement makes no sense.


They are in Deep Strike Reserve. But it is impossible for them to be Deep Striking. Proven.
Logic supports the fact that the embarked Unit cannot be Deep Striking.

The rule you quoted does not "clearly indicate". It insinuates. Which can be ambiguous.


The rule I quoted called a unit that disembarked from a Deep Striking transport a Deep Striking unit. Do you agree?

Spoiler:
In the Movement phase during which they arrive, Deep Striking units may not move any
further, other than to disembark from a Deep Striking Transport vehicle if they are in one.


The rule proves that the embarked unit has arrived from Deep Strike reserves. The rules sometimes refer to Deep Strike as Deep Strike Reserve. This rule clearly shows that Deep Striking can refer to a unit that has arrived from Deep Strike reserves (whether or not the unit itself had the Deep Strike USR)

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/12/18 18:48:26


 
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




So wait, the tactical squad inside the raven can disembark using skies of fury, also they will benefit of their own rules so they don't scatter (they count as deepstriking), make a round of fire and then assault right?

If so that is awesome!!! I've always dreamed of marines doing something like this!!!


Also i would like to understand one thing:

The turn sequence start with flyers coming on board right? This is the very first thing to do right? After that i resolve the reserve (like drop por assault) and then i will move all the other unita. Is this correct?

If so can i do this?

TURN 1:

Stormraven arrive, i use skies of blood to disembrak tacticals, they don't scatter if being between 12 because of the formation rules
Reserve arrive (pod or terminato or marine with jump pack is the same, they arrive from deep strike riserve) they don't scatter if being between 12 because of the formattino rules

Tacticals, raven and everything that have arrived from reserve shoot

Everything can charge


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/18 18:53:10


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

kismet wrote:
So wait, the tactical squad inside the raven can disembark using skies of fury, also they will benefit of their own rules so they don't scatter (they count as deepstriking), make a round of fire and then assault right?


No, because despite deep striking they did not come in from Deep Strike Reserves.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




 Happyjew wrote:
kismet wrote:
So wait, the tactical squad inside the raven can disembark using skies of fury, also they will benefit of their own rules so they don't scatter (they count as deepstriking), make a round of fire and then assault right?


No, because despite deep striking they did not come in from Deep Strike Reserves.



Ok now i'm confused, why not if they count as deepstriking? The term deepstriking dosen't mean they are coming from deep strike reserve?


Also another question, can I attach a priest from another detachment to this formation?

Like corbulo inside one of this stormraven?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/18 19:08:55


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





The storm raven comes from regular reserves, and after that the tactical squad is technically on the table.
   
Made in au
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker




Australia

I think the key wording here a lot of skeptics are missnig is:

arrive FROM deep strike reserve (its already been shown and quoted that they are written to be in deepstrike reserve). If it said arrive BY deepstriking you would all be correct, but it doesnt it just says they have to arrive FROM, doesnt tell you how they have to perform this arrival..

   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Ok, but they aren't in deepstrike reserve when they arrive they are in a drop pod
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

kingleir, as it was posted: "Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike Reserves."

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in au
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker




Australia

kingleir wrote:
Ok, but they aren't in deepstrike reserve when they arrive they are in a drop pod


Yes, they are in a drop pod when they arrive. But where are they arriving from? Deepstrike Reserve. Unless we are missing a post that says "Before they arrive from Deepstrike reserve, they move to the local Inn for a brew before coming" in which case you would be right.

   
Made in us
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions





The Midwest

sm3g wrote:
kingleir wrote:
Ok, but they aren't in deepstrike reserve when they arrive they are in a drop pod


Yes, they are in a drop pod when they arrive. But where are they arriving from? Deepstrike Reserve. Unless we are missing a post that says "Before they arrive from Deepstrike reserve, they move to the local Inn for a brew before coming" in which case you would be right.


Thank you, this needed a little levity.
I can't help but think of the old Abbott and Costello "Who's on First" routine, only with drop pods, dreadnoughts, and deep strike reserve.


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Costello: Well, then who's in the drop pod?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: I mean the fellow's name in the drop pod.

Abbott: Who.

Costello: The fellow arriving from deep strike reserves.

Abbott: Who.

Costello: The guy in the drop pod.

Abbott: Who is in the drop pod.

Costello: Well, what are you askin' me for?

Abbott: I'm not asking you--I'm telling you. Who is in the drop pod.

Costello: I'm asking you--who's in the drop pod?

Abbott: That's the man's name.

Costello: That's who's name?

Abbott: Yes.
   
Made in us
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker





At first I was like no way in hell is that legal, but the wording is what is.key. Now I'm sure it is allowed but will be faq eventually. But untill they do , Frag out!

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