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So I know I have never been involved with any rumors or anything before but the concerning rumblings have left be speechless. I called a buddy in the system to ask and this is what I was told. I quote, “As you know, having played as long as you have, we have dropped armies and models before” also “Change happens, we have already changed the game 7 times, so it would not be new for us to change it again”. Please let it be known that I am the biggest friend and fan of fantasy out there so I am taking this with a grain of salt, but I thought people should know.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I'm not actually that phased by this, indeed, done well it may actually bring me into the game, but if the constant assumption that WHFB has been dying for years, why not do something radical to shake it up?

Too early and too few details to panic/get excited just yet.

I've got no problems with shaking up the game on principle. But it's doing it well that I'm worried about.

I was looking forward to 9th being an excuse to dig my 3500pts of unbuilt Vampire Counts out of their box and get into Fantasy. A return to GW. But then.,..

Much faster releases of stuff, mainly characters and special units of 2-5 fancy models (like Morghasts) that have their own rules right in the box, so not dependent on a static army book. Many of the these non-core models are only available for a limited time (say 6 months to a year), so they don't take up shelf space forever and ever. Many existing models are not usable in 9th.

While I can proxy, it really irks me that part of the shakeup is simply invalidating the majority of what people have. That's just, plain and simply, dickish.

It just feels very cold to me. I know they're a business and need to make money, but the nature of the hobby is that people invest a lot more than just money into their armies, and just dropping any support of the hard work people have put into their Miniatures like that just shows the lack of respect they actually have of us, the people who essentially pay their wages. I agree with Loki, it's very dickish.

I don't buy it. There are shakeups between editions, which are to be expected. But making a game unrecognizable, invalidating every existing army, making the bulk of units obselete...yeah that's not going to happen.

If the ET books are 9th compatible then every unit in all mentioned armybooks remain valid. If not then what the hell will we use until the new books come out?

I suspect that these rumours are being drastically misinterpreted, and that 9th will bring changes but nothing so earth-shaking as is being suggested.

Agreed. Same reason I thumbed my nose at the 4th gen video game consoles. You want to invalidate my entire video game library arbitrarily? And ask me to re-buy everything I still enjoy playing? No thanks. I'd rather play Warhammer...oh wait...

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:
I don't buy it. There are shakeups between editions, which are to be expected. But making a game unrecognizable, invalidating every existing army, making the bulk of units obselete...yeah that's not going to happen.

I don't want to beleive it. But when Harry comes out of the wilds to support the rumours, as well as Darnock...

Were it any other company I wouldn't believe it, but GW being GW, I'm at the point where ANYTHING is possible.

It breaks my heart to read this as I love WFB in it's current state and instead of doing something reasonable like introducing a skirmish game to help people get into the game, making a few minor changes to 8th edition rules, and for the heck of it introducing a siege version of the game, why not just dump everything and restart.

Say what you want about Ward but the guy gave us the Elf books (which I love BoTWD aside of course) and 8th edition. I feel like were he allowed to design 9th edition, we would probably get something us "vets" would be comfortable using and not just staying with an old edition which is what looks like is gonna happen.

The lack of a skirmish game was always mind bogggling to me. If they were afraid people would stick to that size, why not make it "closed" as a board game, like space crusade or hero quest?

I loved the crap out of mordheim and it got me into warhammer fb.

I would be genuinely surprised if the WHFB changes completely invalidated any of the plastic models that have been released in, say, the last five years. That's all a sunken cost, and a metal-die plastic kit is good for decades. I doubt GW went to the trouble of creating new Wood Elf plastics six months ago just to kill them in less than a year, you know?

There's no good business reason to kill them. Milking a product line for 10+ years is a totally normal business model in the miniatures biz (see Wargames Foundry; Perry Miniatures).

But I could see a much larger chunk of kits moving to direct sales only. While there's no need to kill all these kits, there's also no need to stock them in 100+ stores. Only the shiny new stuff and a set of core units would be stocked in stores. But the old stuff that's lying around - why wouldn't they sell that through Mail Order if people were willing to pay for it?

I would also bet that - even though the fluff, unit names, and army composition might change dramatically - you will be able to find an army list entry to fit most (not all) things in your collection. That entry might be boring and generic ("Elven Light Cavalry" instead of Dark Riders / Sisters of the Thorn). But I bet you will be able to find a hole to fit most of your pegs.

The main reason I could see this happening, is it would tie into a total knee jerk reaction by GW over the Chapterhouse nonsense. Although I'd be really shocked if they did actually can the current lines, I'm really struggling with that idea.

The Harry rumours have been at the back of my mind for a long time though.. I do have to wonder if everything we know is about to be tossed on its head.

However as you say hubcap could they really cut loose all those kits.. unless they made a new legends section and left them there?
Six months will pass soon enough I suppose.

Well, obviously some of the kits they have, will carry over into 9th, they are not going to make completely new lines alltogether at the same time.

I have a question, if, worst comes to worst, Fantasy goes the way of the dodo and it's suddenly a weird bubbly skirmish and I don't want to play, are there any games similar to Fantasy as is now? Most games these days seem to be skirmish.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 triplegrim wrote:
Well, obviously some of the kits they have, will carry over into 9th, they are not going to make completely new lines alltogether at the same time.

That's literally what the rumour says though, that they're gonna start the models from scratch.

If this happens I will not be picking up 9th. I'll continue with 8th, its mostly ok and I think quitting while you're ahead is smart.

I will not tolerate my beloved Ogres getting squatted. New fluff, I could get behind that, but not cutting up the armies.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Sure.

My take too.

Maybe what he got a glimpse of was a specialist game or something, if even any of this is true. I'm applying liberal amounts of NaCl to this.

However, on the ridiculously remote possibility this is true, my friends and I will just stick to 8th Ed. We have had a ton of fun with it, and i'm sure i'll be able to pick up yet another army on the cheap from my LGS and bartertown.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Round bases. NOT. GONNA. HAPPEN. 300+ Goblin models.

Tell me about it. I have a legally playable 10k army of elves.

 ImAGeek wrote:
I have a question, if, worst comes to worst, Fantasy goes the way of the dodo and it's suddenly a weird bubbly skirmish and I don't want to play, are there any games similar to Fantasy as is now? Most games these days seem to be skirmish.

Hm. Didnt warhammer start as a skirmish game with less models though?

Kings of War is the obvious answer to your question. They make a point out of having large armies and large battles. I think you buy infantry by the score when building armylist.

The only reason the round bases makes any sense at all, is if they are squatting all the current armies.

Because at that point it won't matter, no one has to rebase anything.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
The only reason the round bases makes any sense at all, is if they are squatting all the current armies.

Because at that point it won't matter, no one has to rebase anything.

Indeed. We'll just keep playing 8th edition and be freed from the worry of upcoming editions.

 Grey Templar wrote:
If this happens I will not be picking up 9th. I'll continue with 8th, its mostly ok and I think quitting while you're ahead is smart.

I will not tolerate my beloved Ogres getting squatted. New fluff, I could get behind that, but not cutting up the armies.

I have two shelves full of Ogres. If GW squats them, I walk and never look back and I spend $8-10k per year on my "hobby".




Edit:

I was going to say that this sounds too much like someone trolling the community until Harry stepped in....damn..

 triplegrim wrote:

Kings of War is the obvious answer to your question. They make a point out of having large armies and large battles. I think you buy infantry by the score when building armylist.

But the Kings of War rules suck.

Indeed. KoW are just alternate models for Warhammer Fantasy. I'll use GW or my own rules before KoW.

This rumor is so ridiculous, so it must true!

Platuan4th wrote:

 triplegrim wrote:

Kings of War is the obvious answer to your question. They make a point out of having large armies and large battles. I think you buy infantry by the score when building armylist.

But the Kings of War rules suck.

Grey Templar wrote:Indeed. KoW are just alternate models for Warhammer Fantasy. I'll use GW or my own rules before KoW.

I like the Kings of war rules myself. It reminds me of 2nd/3rd edition fantasy, and is more beer and pretzels game. It needs some work, but is much better and quicker to play than GW games. YOMV.

I find the KoW rules much nicer.

Whatevs...

Silly thing is that this sort of the VOR: The Maelstrom fractured warhammer world sounds like a great setting for a WHFB skirmish game.

I don't play FB so I'm not invested in this at all, but it makes me a bit sad if true. Citadel Dwarves were my first models and I pawed through Warhammer Armies an ungodly number of times.

Well that's... Um... Well it certainly makes me feel good about backing the latest LoW Kickstater.
(Its the superior game imo by a mile, there is just so much less clutter and micro managing or unessecary rolling. If I want to hit someone I look at my stat line and go instead if counting models in base contacts, seeing who can hit the unit and who has to hit the character on the corner, comparing to my opponents statline and consulting the chart to determine what I need, determining inti order, ect.)

Anyway this all makes perfect sense to me. We know GW make the vast majority of their sales on any given kit in the first month. We know they have been doing more and more limited edition plastics. They have already completely trashed the Fantasy map in preparation for something and, well, honestly I think that the odds of the people they have left being able to make 9th good are low. Something like this that alienates most their fanbase sounds like something they'd consider a good idea.

Could it be possible that WHF might move to a dual game system, where units are given an 'End Times' stat card and this new skirmish game stat card in the same box? Seen in this light, The End Times would become like the popular Horus Heresy setting, where the final outcomes are known but you can relive the battles just before the big finally occurred.

I could see this happening, as it would provide people with the smaller buy-in for the game, whilst retaining the bigger aspect that players could work towards.

 Platuan4th wrote:


But the Kings of War rules suck.

Did you try it? There is less clutter, and lower prices at least.

 triplegrim wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:


But the Kings of War rules suck.

Did you try it? There is less clutter, and lower prices at least.

Less clutter, but its just so bland.

 Darnok wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I think Darnok's getting trolled.

Finally joining Dakka² merely for this: I so hope you are right.

Hey, Darnok! Good to see you over here, this information definitely is better supported by the person who wrote it rather than someone (such as myself) who just passed it around.

 agnosto wrote:
I have two shelves full of Ogres. If GW squats them, I walk and never look back and I spend $8-10k per year on my "hobby".




Edit:

I was going to say that this sounds too much like someone trolling the community until Harry stepped in....damn..

Yeah, the authors of these rumors made me feel like this was something that was too important to dismiss offhand.

While I think these changes are quite crazy, I can see GW having a laundry list of reasons for this change:

1. WHFB has fallen outside of the top 5 selling tabletop wargames, at least according to the ICv2. When you think about the theoretical gaps in sales and profits between even these top 5 games, it can paint a pretty bleak picture about the state of WHFB. GW seems to have recognized this with the advent of the "End Times" material

2. GW has shown a truly ludicrous level of aversion to anything they can't claim absolute ownership of. Go back to the CHS court case and you can see GW's associates making the claim that everything their studio develops comes only from their imagination and has no outside inspiration. Stereotypical dwarves, elves, and Arthurian knights are not something even GW can pretend they invented, and I think those in the ivory tower are looking to purge any remnants of things that aren't more unique to them (even if vast swathes of their models are still very obvious in their inspiration). Look at the Tomb King-ification of the Necrons or the renaming of "Imperial Guard" to "Astra Militarum" and I think there begins to be shown a picture of a company who will do anything to claim copyright of their products to prevent any third party mischief

3. GW knows Space Marines sell well. Heck, Space Marines make more profit than the whole WHFB range does combined. GW wants desperately to emulate this with WHFB and the best way to do is to create a duplicate analog for the kids to get excited about. Karl Franz's transformation in the "End Times" lore seems to be pointing to this change

4. Despite these new books coming out for the "End Times," not many new models have been produced. Heck, Khaine's book didn't have any models whatsoever. I think GW is trying to stop producing WHFB models in plans to gear up for this upcoming new game.

5. I really don't know what 9th edition of WHFB could do that would revitalize the game. It's been through 8 renditions, what could another edition possibly offer other than some good/some bad rules and a new $100 price tag

6. If WHFB players are upset about this new game, so what? GW got their money already, and it's not like they were doing enough to support WHFB as it was. I'm sure in GW's mind, it's their customers' faults that this happened in the first place!

There are a couple of other reasons I can think of that support this, but to me it just makes sense, especially given GW's MO these last few seasons.