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Made in es
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets




Vigo. Spain.

Chaos Warriors once are clad in their plate armour can't take it off. They don't need to drink, or eat, don't they feel tired. They just survive killing for their gods.

Or at least it was this way in Fantasy, I don't know if its still the same in AoS.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Indeed but I think people mean the more human marauders rather than the chaos knights who are openly mutated to the core.

The chaos knights are always noted as having no problems compared to the mortals who can starve or get eaten by their beastmen allies in a Kislev winter.
   
Made in nl
Fixture of Dakka





Somewhere... over the rainbow

Baron Klatz wrote:
Indeed but I think people mean the more human marauders rather than the chaos knights who are openly mutated to the core.

The chaos knights are always noted as having no problems compared to the mortals who can starve or get eaten by their beastmen allies in a Kislev winter.

The Human marauders are Norscans. How they survived has never been really unclear. Norsca is basically a grimdark version of Scandinavia with lots of monsters. People survive by fishing, hunting monsters and other animals for meat and farming what little crops will grow in the rocky soil and cold climate. Supplemented of course by frequent raids on more pleasant parts of the world. How Chaos Knights survive has always been just handwaved with magic.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Knight wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's not like Skaven, Chaos Warriors, or Dwarfs had any reasonable explanation for their food sources.

It doesn't have to be reasonable. Starvation isn't uncommon for the Skaven, as is having a bite from a fellow rat. Chaos Warriors pillage and loot. Dwarfs have trade and some underground plantations (I think). In my view those detail add something to the story telling.

You can always use "the wizard did it" or "it's just the way it is" and call it a day, however I'd consider that rather dull witted writing. That doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't use "the wizard did it", however some moderation and consistency is wanted on my part. I think Phil also said that people are interested in more non-conflict related details in the setting and how the thing flow together.
What I meant to say is that some degree of assumption/handwaveium was required back in WHFB days, the degree we have it now (in AoS) is equivalent or less than what it was. They were pretty clear in the video that there are vast sections of the realms that are normal/close enough to it that conventional cities and farms are built. That's already putting the realm of life (and to a lesser extent beasts) aside, where 'magic makes it grow' is less an assumption and more a basic premise of the lore.

Overall I find AoS to be more reasonable on the facet of food production.

I love how you jump to the conclusion with the only information about food production in AoS being 'there are farms'. There were farms in the Old World too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/10 21:10:09


А сегодня, что для завтра сделал Я?
But today I don't feel like doing anything... 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Iron_Captain wrote:

The Human marauders are Norscans. How they survived has never been really unclear. Norsca is basically a grimdark version of Scandinavia with lots of monsters. People survive by fishing, hunting monsters and other animals for meat and farming what little crops will grow in the rocky soil and cold climate. Supplemented of course by frequent raids on more pleasant parts of the world.

A little known fact about the Old World chaos marauders is that as pseudo Scandinavians the Norscans had a robust social security system which allowed them to survive even the harshest conditions.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Iron Captain, I didn't and don't want to go into detail because it's off topic. Obviously there's more to it on both ends.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/10 21:25:26


"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Hmm, I guess I get wanting to keep on topic but I think pointing out the large fishing industry, for both cities and villages, in AoS(due to damage caused to the lands during the age of chaos)is suitable if "they have farms" is not satisfactory.
.

The Human marauders are Norscans. How they survived has never been really unclear. Norsca is basically a grimdark version of Scandinavia with lots of monsters. People survive by fishing, hunting monsters and other animals for meat and farming what little crops will grow in the rocky soil and cold climate. Supplemented of course by frequent raids on more pleasant parts of the world. How Chaos Knights survive has always been just handwaved with magic.


Oh, I mostly meant supply lines in my example but yours is a good point.

The Norscans also do some trading with the south and the tribes not influenced by chaos were noted in one story to be able to produce cheese.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Baron Klatz wrote:
Hmm, I guess I get wanting to keep on topic but I think pointing out the large fishing industry, for both cities and villages, in AoS(due to damage caused to the lands during the age of chaos)is suitable if "they have farms" is not satisfactory.
.

The Human marauders are Norscans. How they survived has never been really unclear. Norsca is basically a grimdark version of Scandinavia with lots of monsters. People survive by fishing, hunting monsters and other animals for meat and farming what little crops will grow in the rocky soil and cold climate. Supplemented of course by frequent raids on more pleasant parts of the world. How Chaos Knights survive has always been just handwaved with magic.


Oh, I mostly meant supply lines in my example but yours is a good point.

The Norscans also do some trading with the south and the tribes not influenced by chaos were noted in one story to be able to produce cheese.
That's a cheesy explanation.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in nl
Fixture of Dakka





Somewhere... over the rainbow

Yeah, this is getting off topic
But this discussion about Norscans does bring to something I would really like to see in AoS. The Norscans were great because they weren't really evil (or at least not all of them). It would be great to see a similar faction of more sympathetic, less fanatical Chaos worshippers in AoS. So far most of what we have seen of Chaos followers is utter lunatics. These Darkoath seem promising. I really hope GW will make them into a full faction. It'd also be really cool to see a 'neutral' Human faction who worship neither Sigmar nor Chaos but are caught in between. But now I am just wishlisting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/10 23:58:50


А сегодня, что для завтра сделал Я?
But today I don't feel like doing anything... 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 Iron_Captain wrote:
Yeah, this is getting off topic
But this discussion about Norscans does bring to something I would really like to see in AoS. The Norscans were great because they weren't really evil (or at least not all of them). It would be great to see a similar faction of more sympathetic, less fanatical Chaos worshippers in AoS. So far most of what we have seen of Chaos followers is utter lunatics. These Darkoath seem promising. I really hope GW will make them into a full faction. It'd also be really cool to see a 'neutral' Human faction who worship neither Sigmar nor Chaos but are caught in between. But now I am just wishlisting.
Those that are largely worshippers by circumstance rather than choice, barbarians rather than lunatics. I'd like to see a Norsca ish army as well.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Baron Klatz wrote:
Indeed but I think people mean the more human marauders rather than the chaos knights who are openly mutated to the core.

The chaos knights are always noted as having no problems compared to the mortals who can starve or get eaten by their beastmen allies in a Kislev winter.

The Human marauders are Norscans. How they survived has never been really unclear. Norsca is basically a grimdark version of Scandinavia with lots of monsters. People survive by fishing, hunting monsters and other animals for meat and farming what little crops will grow in the rocky soil and cold climate. Supplemented of course by frequent raids on more pleasant parts of the world. How Chaos Knights survive has always been just handwaved with magic.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Knight wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's not like Skaven, Chaos Warriors, or Dwarfs had any reasonable explanation for their food sources.

It doesn't have to be reasonable. Starvation isn't uncommon for the Skaven, as is having a bite from a fellow rat. Chaos Warriors pillage and loot. Dwarfs have trade and some underground plantations (I think). In my view those detail add something to the story telling.

You can always use "the wizard did it" or "it's just the way it is" and call it a day, however I'd consider that rather dull witted writing. That doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't use "the wizard did it", however some moderation and consistency is wanted on my part. I think Phil also said that people are interested in more non-conflict related details in the setting and how the thing flow together.
What I meant to say is that some degree of assumption/handwaveium was required back in WHFB days, the degree we have it now (in AoS) is equivalent or less than what it was. They were pretty clear in the video that there are vast sections of the realms that are normal/close enough to it that conventional cities and farms are built. That's already putting the realm of life (and to a lesser extent beasts) aside, where 'magic makes it grow' is less an assumption and more a basic premise of the lore.

Overall I find AoS to be more reasonable on the facet of food production.

I love how you jump to the conclusion with the only information about food production in AoS being 'there are farms'. There were farms in the Old World too.


There's a few more cases and details than that. Shu'gohl's basic agricultural principles are fairly detailed. Excelsis has plantations/ranches of spider silk in the eastern marshes. Hammerhal uses the magma from its Aqshy part to keep control of the vegetation and generate volcanic soil, very good for crops.
   
Made in nl
Moustache-twirling Princeps




We'll find out soon enough eh.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Knight wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's not like Skaven, Chaos Warriors, or Dwarfs had any reasonable explanation for their food sources.

It doesn't have to be reasonable. Starvation isn't uncommon for the Skaven, as is having a bite from a fellow rat. Chaos Warriors pillage and loot. Dwarfs have trade and some underground plantations (I think). In my view those detail add something to the story telling.

You can always use "the wizard did it" or "it's just the way it is" and call it a day, however I'd consider that rather dull witted writing. That doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't use "the wizard did it", however some moderation and consistency is wanted on my part. I think Phil also said that people are interested in more non-conflict related details in the setting and how the thing flow together.
What I meant to say is that some degree of assumption/handwaveium was required back in WHFB days, the degree we have it now (in AoS) is equivalent or less than what it was.


Demonstrably, factually untrue. Skaven use slave labour to farm rice and corrupted grain in swamps, consume lesser rats and prisoners(and on occasion each other), and raid other races. Chaos Warriors either live in the Wastes themselves, one of the few cases I think "magic did it" is a fair explanation, or else they're part of one of the Northern Tribes who would also resort to a mix of pillage and slave farming. Dwarfs have a few fields and herds of goat on the mountainsides, some "fields" within their holds using light reflectors, cultivate mushrooms and "blindfish", brew fortified ale that's as much a meal as it is booze, bake Stonebread, and trade with human realms where possible for what Dwarfs see as low-quality grain unfit for brewing.

AoS is getting better at this kind of thing, but fans of it need to stop trying to denigrate WHF to make AoS look better by comparison - especially with such obviously dissonant arguments; one moment WHF was stifling, over-detailed, a lead weight around the necks of authors and players seeking to be creative; the next AoS is actually more detailed and requires less handwaving and assumption?

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in es
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets




Vigo. Spain.

I'll say that I'm very glad that a small comic and a "but the farms!" joke has started all this great conversation about the virtues/canonicity and process of food production and agriculture in fictional worlds

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Haha, well it was a good comic.

the next AoS is actually more detailed and requires less handwaving and assumption? 

Are they? I think the discussion is that AoS has more hand-wave material rather than details due to the the magical nature and vastness of the setting.

Those that are largely worshippers by circumstance rather than choice, barbarians rather than lunatics. I'd like to see a Norsca ish army as well.


Wouldn't that be humans for Destruction then? Or is it just they have chaos worship as a after thought?

On that note, what about the Black Rift story and the ice-kingdoms of Gjoll? They seem to be heavy Norscan expies with their position in the arctic wastes of Ghur.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 Yodhrin wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Knight wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's not like Skaven, Chaos Warriors, or Dwarfs had any reasonable explanation for their food sources.

It doesn't have to be reasonable. Starvation isn't uncommon for the Skaven, as is having a bite from a fellow rat. Chaos Warriors pillage and loot. Dwarfs have trade and some underground plantations (I think). In my view those detail add something to the story telling.

You can always use "the wizard did it" or "it's just the way it is" and call it a day, however I'd consider that rather dull witted writing. That doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't use "the wizard did it", however some moderation and consistency is wanted on my part. I think Phil also said that people are interested in more non-conflict related details in the setting and how the thing flow together.
What I meant to say is that some degree of assumption/handwaveium was required back in WHFB days, the degree we have it now (in AoS) is equivalent or less than what it was.


Demonstrably, factually untrue. Skaven use slave labour to farm rice and corrupted grain in swamps, consume lesser rats and prisoners(and on occasion each other), and raid other races. Chaos Warriors either live in the Wastes themselves, one of the few cases I think "magic did it" is a fair explanation, or else they're part of one of the Northern Tribes who would also resort to a mix of pillage and slave farming. Dwarfs have a few fields and herds of goat on the mountainsides, some "fields" within their holds using light reflectors, cultivate mushrooms and "blindfish", brew fortified ale that's as much a meal as it is booze, bake Stonebread, and trade with human realms where possible for what Dwarfs see as low-quality grain unfit for brewing.

AoS is getting better at this kind of thing, but fans of it need to stop trying to denigrate WHF to make AoS look better by comparison - especially with such obviously dissonant arguments; one moment WHF was stifling, over-detailed, a lead weight around the necks of authors and players seeking to be creative; the next AoS is actually more detailed and requires less handwaving and assumption?
What part of 'there is way more to justify my argument but this is off topic' did you misunderstand? Genuinely curious as to exactly where that was unclear.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/11 06:06:22


"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Alright, let's try to bring this back on track.

What are the odds of Malign Portents leading to another Summer Campaign?

If that rumor leak is to be believed there's a lot of 40k codexes coming so a huge narrative event to keep AoS players happy and end MP for a lead up to aelves and Slaanesh sounds plausible.
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





Baron Klatz wrote:
Alright, let's try to bring this back on track.

What are the odds of Malign Portents leading to another Summer Campaign?

If that rumor leak is to be believed there's a lot of 40k codexes coming so a huge narrative event to keep AoS players happy and end MP for a lead up to aelves and Slaanesh sounds plausible.

It's a dead cert. The next campaign global campaign has already been confirmed and reiterated on yesterday's live stream.
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




The Garden Of Nurgle

Chikout wrote:
Baron Klatz wrote:
Alright, let's try to bring this back on track.

What are the odds of Malign Portents leading to another Summer Campaign?

If that rumor leak is to be believed there's a lot of 40k codexes coming so a huge narrative event to keep AoS players happy and end MP for a lead up to aelves and Slaanesh sounds plausible.

It's a dead cert. The next campaign global campaign has already been confirmed and reiterated on yesterday's live stream.


Yeah : "Very soon, you’ll be able to blood your new army and help make Warhammer history in a new global campaign."

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/04/malign-portents-the-time-is-nighgw-homepage-post-1/

I'm not sure this will be a summer global campaign (because of the "very soon") but then, global campaign can only really happen during summer holidays, right ?

"... Your blood shall water my Master's rotten earth..." 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Oh wow, I totally missed that.

Thanks guys!
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




The Garden Of Nurgle

So, given the fact that Month 1 (the SC!) is January, the four Harbingers (Month 2) are coming in February
[Thumb - MPflyer3.jpg]


"... Your blood shall water my Master's rotten earth..." 
   
Made in es
Longtime Dakkanaut





slower than I expected ..

So the rest of January, will be custodes?
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




The Garden Of Nurgle

Well : January is Maggotkin - Adeptus Custodes - Thousand Sons (see the last Regimental Standard about Tzaangors on WarCom).

February should be end of Custodes, Harbingers, hopefully the MP campaign books, maybe new scenery.

March ("Month 3") may be 40k-Necromunda-Bloodbowl only, or the campaign book.

April-May should be Aelves or a new AOS factions

"... Your blood shall water my Master's rotten earth..." 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Uh aren't tson and custodes supposed to be on february? January seems to be nurgle centric.

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
3225 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights
 
   
Made in de
Experienced Maneater






Why is everyone thinking the MP campaign book release is close? My interpretation of the MP posts are that the next months are used to build armies and MP would transition in the global summer campaign.



 
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




The Garden Of Nurgle

The only Nurgle model unrealized yet (bar the beasts etc. coming in two days) is the Lord of Blight, right ?

So we could see him + Custodes / Thousand Sons starting the 20th or 27th January, continuing Custodes release in February...,

"... Your blood shall water my Master's rotten earth..." 
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

 HorticulusDK wrote:
Well : January is Maggotkin - Adeptus Custodes - Thousand Sons (see the last Regimental Standard about Tzaangors on WarCom).

February should be end of Custodes, Harbingers, hopefully the MP campaign books, maybe new scenery.

March ("Month 3") may be 40k-Necromunda-Bloodbowl only, or the campaign book.

April-May should be Aelves or a new AOS factions


Malign Portents is getting released mid february, though.
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




The Garden Of Nurgle

The second countdown indeed ends the 17th of February.

So that fits what we know I'm looking forward to the Harbingers but mostly the campaign book !

"... Your blood shall water my Master's rotten earth..." 
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

 HorticulusDK wrote:
The second countdown indeed ends the 17th of February.

So that fits what we know I'm looking forward to the Harbingers but mostly the campaign book !


I mean, we could be wrong, but to me it seems that the harbingers kind of need the stuff of the prophecy points in MP and whatnot.
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Yeah, this is getting off topic
But this discussion about Norscans does bring to something I would really like to see in AoS. The Norscans were great because they weren't really evil (or at least not all of them). It would be great to see a similar faction of more sympathetic, less fanatical Chaos worshippers in AoS. So far most of what we have seen of Chaos followers is utter lunatics. These Darkoath seem promising. I really hope GW will make them into a full faction. It'd also be really cool to see a 'neutral' Human faction who worship neither Sigmar nor Chaos but are caught in between. But now I am just wishlisting.


Trouble is to worship Chaos you do have to be at least a little mad and/or desperate

Some of the authors such as Josh Reynolds have given a bit more life to Chaos worshippers - eg: http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Fly - they are devoted and not sane as such but they are more than simply shouting "Blood for the Bood God".


"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in za
Infiltrating Naga





South Africa

 Knight wrote:
Phil did say that the realms of light and shadow have their own cycles of the day. For shadow it goes from pitched dark to twilight and for light it's reverse. It made me wonder how can anything actually survive in those realms, even with the information that the core of the realm is supposedly somewhat habitable.

Mushrooms. It's the staple of any fantasy civilization under ground or in the dark.
Finally is there something as rebirth for the souls in AoS? Honestly just a thought that after you die you'll become a fuel for the biggest jerk in AoS is rather depressing.

Which jerk exactly? Depending on you point of view it could be Nagash, Sigmar, Archaon, a random stormcast purging a city, Slaanesh or Tzeentch.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/11 12:16:38



Resurrectionists
Nightstalkers
Dwarfs  
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

 DarkBlack wrote:
 Knight wrote:
Phil did say that the realms of light and shadow have their own cycles of the day. For shadow it goes from pitched dark to twilight and for light it's reverse. It made me wonder how can anything actually survive in those realms, even with the information that the core of the realm is supposedly somewhat habitable.

Mushrooms. It's the staple of any fantasy civilization under ground or in the dark.
Finally is there something as rebirth for the souls in AoS? Honestly just a thought that after you die you'll become a fuel for the biggest jerk in AoS is rather depressing.

Which jerk exactly? Depending on you point of view it could be Nagash, Sigmar, Archaon, a random stormcast purging a city, Slaanesh or Tzeentch.


There is some info that even Nagash can not hang onto souls indefinitely and does not know where they go when they "move on".

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
 
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