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http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/10/exclusive-painted-warpath-forgefather.html



Much, much better colour scheme. Not sure I'm getting any of the units yet, but will definitely pick this up just to paint.

He looks good

Good paint quality for sure

But he still screams "I'm a Warmachine character!" to me. Imo some models mantic is confusing sci fi with steampunk

Steampunk is a sub-genre of sci fi

lord marcus wrote:Steampunk is a sub-genre of sci fi

Not necessarily.

Steampunk is a subgenre of both scifi and fantasy, and can also be put under the "alternative history" heading as well.

Steampunk is a sub-genre of science fiction, fantasy, alternate history, and speculative fiction that came into prominence during the 1980s and early 1990s.[1] Steampunk involves a setting where steam power is still widely used—usually Victorian era Britain—that incorporates elements of either science fiction or fantasy. Works of steampunk often feature anachronistic technology or futuristic innovations as Victorians may have envisioned them, based on a Victorian perspective on fashion, culture, architectural style, art, etc. This technology may include such fictional machines as those found in the works of H. G. Wells and Jules Verne.

I dunno, steampuck is more about technology in a terrestrial lower tech era... sci-fi is more space. You wouldn't be using steampunk tech in space. Mantic's universe, steampunk is not appropriate pretty much in any capacity. makes little sense and is confusing.

That dwarf looks like a fantasy model who is a classic fantasy engineer type where he is building technologically advanced doo-dads using medieval-tech and crafting.

He looks grossly out of place in the same army as the forgefather powersuits.

It is like mantic is purposefully trying to fail and make minis that look bad or don't make sense.

I'm actually seriously liking the models. I can't wait to see what else they come up with, especially with their "Zz'or" idea.

TBH, I don't care if it is steampunk or whatever.. what matters is, it looks damned good.

If you look at GW's ranges, they often have the odd model in there that looks like it should belong to fantasy or other genres.

In fact, they have an entire range of models (daemons) that is basically a fantasy army, and nothing *but* a fantasy army that gets used in 40k with zero modification other than "bung it on a round base, job done". I don't recall seeing anyone crying bloody murder about the fact that GW copy+pasted both it's daemon models, and their background straight over from fantasy into 40k.

Also, look at the old Horus-Heresy space marine armour types, a lot of those are very heavily fantasy/ steampunk with big rivets and knights helms all over them. Does it matter? No! They look great, regardless, and so does that forgefather.

Also, here's the marauder hero to go with him:

Yeah, the Steampunk or not argument doesn't mean much regarding Mantic and 40k. Mantic is follwoing in 40k's footsteps and 40k is so far into Sci-Fantasy that it's probably closer to Steampunk than Sci-Fi anyway.

The new paintjob on the Forgefather hero is really nice. As much as I'd be disappointed to have a bunch of Space dwarves with fantasy loincloths (even squats didn't have loincloths), I might paint a squad up just to have a group to accompany the Hero fig.

nkelsch wrote:

Steampunk is a sub-genre of science fiction, fantasy, alternate history, and speculative fiction that came into prominence during the 1980s and early 1990s.[1] Steampunk involves a setting where steam power is still widely used—usually Victorian era Britain—that incorporates elements of either science fiction or fantasy. Works of steampunk often feature anachronistic technology or futuristic innovations as Victorians may have envisioned them, based on a Victorian perspective on fashion, culture, architectural style, art, etc. This technology may include such fictional machines as those found in the works of H. G. Wells and Jules Verne.

I dunno, steampuck is more about technology in a terrestrial lower tech era... sci-fi is more space. You wouldn't be using steampunk tech in space. Mantic's universe, steampunk is not appropriate pretty much in any capacity. makes little sense and is confusing.

That dwarf looks like a fantasy model who is a classic fantasy engineer type where he is building technologically advanced doo-dads using medieval-tech and crafting.

He looks grossly out of place in the same army as the forgefather powersuits.

It is like mantic is purposefully trying to fail and make minis that look bad or don't make sense.

Sci fi is SCIENCE fiction. The name does not give a time period all works should be based around, nor does it say anthing about space as a requirment.

Not one Warpath miniature that doesn't look like a Fantasy miniature with a gun glued on.
Guess that's why the extra Warpath thread was closed, because Mantic doesn't produce SciFi miniatures, just a new weapon sprue.

I really dont like the look of what I have seen so far. It just looks odd to me. I will wait and see.

I'm not saying Steam Punk=bad

Its just that seeing Humans with "5 minutes into the future" tech vs steam/diesel punk dwarves doesnt really seem like a coherent universe

Yes I'm aware of 40k's different styles, heck a lot of sci fi universes have different species with different tech/etc

But I think that the Fantasy In Space races are severely limited to being similar to their fantasy counterparts since the plastics are limited

I am not sure what to think of Mantic's miniatures.

They are hit and miss to me. Some good concepts yet none of their factions appeal to me as a painter or gamer.

Just seems a bit meh.

I'm not sure that "but Warhammer does it!" is an especially useful counter.

People looking at Mantic for proxies for GW games are only going to care that they like the models.
Everyone else is presumably looking for an alternative to Warhammer, something new and different. Maybe they shouldn't be expecting that, or maybe they shouldn't be expecting that yet, but there it is.

While I'm not particularly excited by the plastic orcs, or the gorilla-armed Forgefather heavies (or whatever they're called) I do like these two "leader" figures.

Have they shown the regular dwarfs yet?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cyporiean wrote:

Warpath Starter set all together... no close up pics of the Forgefather plastics yet :/

And this.. just doesn't seem like all that much for a starter box. For a 10 pound difference between this and Black Reach. Just in terms of box content..

nkelsch wrote:

Steampunk is a sub-genre of science fiction, fantasy, alternate history, and speculative fiction that came into prominence during the 1980s and early 1990s.[1] Steampunk involves a setting where steam power is still widely used—usually Victorian era Britain—that incorporates elements of either science fiction or fantasy. Works of steampunk often feature anachronistic technology or futuristic innovations as Victorians may have envisioned them, based on a Victorian perspective on fashion, culture, architectural style, art, etc. This technology may include such fictional machines as those found in the works of H. G. Wells and Jules Verne.

I dunno, steampuck is more about technology in a terrestrial lower tech era... sci-fi is more space. You wouldn't be using steampunk tech in space. Mantic's universe, steampunk is not appropriate pretty much in any capacity. makes little sense and is confusing.

This may be the least accurate definition of sci-fi I've ever heard.

Feel free to continue carving down pluralistic genres into highly specific niches, but you should know that by any credible accounting you're completely wrong.

The "clean technology with elegant lines" is just a modern way to face technology sthetic. Take a look at industrial technology: even the modern one will just look like "industrial revolution" technology, with eletronics in place of steampower.

Technology "looks" modern only when that is good for the business. The iPad look clean and elegant because our culture value that.

If you read Isac Asimov, you need a lot of imagination to imagine the clean, white, bright robots of "I Robot" (the movie).

Orx culture dont have any need for that type of preocupation, they need crude industrial weaponry.

Dwarf culture dont change like the human one, and never work around sthetic (except when they are meant to be beautifull).

I dont see anything wrong with Mantic aprouch and "tecno salada" on secnario, it even make sense.

How are they coming in basic boxed sets?

I don't like the price of the starter for whats in it.

Grot 6 wrote:How are they coming in basic boxed sets?

I don't like the price of the starter for whats in it.

Im in the same boat. Mantic fantasy have great values, and in the majority of the boxes it have good quality too...

Mantic sci-fi is not so good in value, and is not very good at all. I just had lost my interest in Mantic dwarfs until they get power armored troopers, and if orx keep this type of price vs quality rate, i will have to give up from them too...

Well, the boxed sets are usually where your best value lies, so this is likely as good as it gets. Unless you're just after one army and they do the same thing that they did with the Undead and Dwarfs from the first Mhorgoth's box. (I shoulda gotten the Undead-only one - their dwarfs are awful.)

I guess this is where the Mantic defenders chime in to tell us that we should "cut them some slack" as they're a beginning company, in the same way that we should be cutting them slack for reused Orc sprues. Since they haven't shown the other Forgefathers yet and release is imminent, I'm beginning to assume that they're a half-recycled sprue as well, as per the rumours. I mean, I like to support competition - I just bought the new Warmachine Starter box - but you gotta give us either quality or quantity, and this Boxed set unfortunately gives us neither compared to AOBR, allowing for a 10-12UKP difference.

scipio.au wrote:Well, the boxed sets are usually where your best value lies, so this is likely as good as it gets. Unless you're just after one army and they do the same thing that they did with the Undead and Dwarfs from the first Mhorgoth's box. (I shoulda gotten the Undead-only one - their dwarfs are awful) In my own opinon.

I guess this is where the Mantic defenders chime in to tell us that we should "cut them some slack" as they're a beginning company, in the same way that we should be cutting them slack for reused Orc sprues. Since they haven't shown the other Forgefathers yet and release is imminent, I'm beginning to assume that they're a half-recycled sprue as well, as per the rumours. I mean, I like to support competition - I just bought the new Warmachine Starter box - but you gotta give us either quality I see nothing wrong with the casting or techincal sculpting in these models. Obviously this is not what you meant, but it is what the word quality means or quantity There are over 50 minis in there, with 2 of them being plastic resin vehicles, and 5 of them being plastic resin infantry, both more expensive to supply then base plastics , and this Boxed set unfortunately gives us neither compared to AOBR, allowing for a 10-12UKP difference.

Fixed and replied too.

And we defend them because they do not deserve the fallacies people Prophesize here as truth, and thus have a right to be defended.

Baragash wrote:http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/10/exclusive-painted-warpath-forgefather.html



Much, much better colour scheme.

If someone kept making excuses like what I see in this thread for GW actions or products, they would be called apologists or white knights defenders of the faith.

It seems like people who have sigs who bash GW and then claim to be mantic fantatics... well they may be on a payroll or pushing an agenda.

I don't like the models, I don't think they are a good value. I don't think I should accept 'excuses' on why I should accept lower quality because it is 'cheaper'. And I am not going to blindly accept the words of some water-carrying mantic bucket brigade.


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lord marcus wrote:
And we defend them because they do not deserve the fallacies people Prophesize here as truth, and thus have a right to be defended.

Do you arms get tired carrying that water? People can see the models with their own eyes and see the prices with their own eyes and decide if they like them and if the value is good without you needing to redefine mantic's situation for them. If people think the models look bad or are a poor value, they don't need you 'inform' them otherwise.

lord marcus wrote:

scipio.au wrote:Well, the boxed sets are usually where your best value lies, so this is likely as good as it gets. Unless you're just after one army and they do the same thing that they did with the Undead and Dwarfs from the first Mhorgoth's box. (I shoulda gotten the Undead-only one - their dwarfs are awful) In my own opinon.

I guess this is where the Mantic defenders chime in to tell us that we should "cut them some slack" as they're a beginning company, in the same way that we should be cutting them slack for reused Orc sprues. Since they haven't shown the other Forgefathers yet and release is imminent, I'm beginning to assume that they're a half-recycled sprue as well, as per the rumours. I mean, I like to support competition - I just bought the new Warmachine Starter box - but you gotta give us either quality I see nothing wrong with the casting or techincal sculpting in these models. Obviously this is not what you meant, but it is what the word quality means or quantity There are over 50 minis in there, with 2 of them being plastic resin vehicles, and 5 of them being plastic resin infantry, both more expensive to supply then base plastics , and this Boxed set unfortunately gives us neither compared to AOBR, allowing for a 10-12UKP difference.

Fixed and replied too.

And we defend them because they do not deserve the fallacies people Prophesize here as truth, and thus have a right to be defended.

Your reply is a mess. Use quotes, not colours, please.
Every post we make is opinion-based. This includes your good self. Quality can have more than one meaning, and the technical sculpting on the Warpath figures appears to range from quite good, to decent, to (if the forgefathers are in fact recasts of the Fantasy Dwarfs) poor.
I miscounted the Mantic figures (the number of those Orks), so the quantity isn't as bad as I thought, though more FFs and vehicles would make the package seem much more worthwhile compared to AoBR.

"Deserve" is a very emotionally loaded term. I'm not going to get too emotionally invested in the companies that make my little toy soldiers and instead try to speak on matters of sculpt quality, quantity, production quality (hello Finecast!) and the like. I'm sure the Mantic people are great guys in person and want to do as well as they can, but hey, there are guys like that in all of the companies in our hobby (even GW). When they produce quality or great deals I'll recognise them, and when they don't, I'll share my opinion on that as well.

These initial Warpath armies are pretty "meh" in terms of choice and overall aesthetic. The Dwarfs and Orx just seem like rushed jobs to get a product out. Was it necessary to launch this fall? Why not push it off and launch with the Corp. and the 8th Race, which seems to be their 2 flagship armies (with the Corp being the center of the Universe and the 8th race supposedly being original)? This just seems like a soft launch that could do more harm than good to the image they are trying to create.

I'll reserve overall judgment for the models until I see the Corp, 8th race, Zz'or and maybe Rebs, but I don't think there's any hope for races that might tie back into fantasy (I wouldn't be surprised if The Plague are zombies with axes and revolvers).

As far as prices, I still think that Warpath is reasonable. But I live in the States where the prices listed on the official sites are $99USD for AoBR and $74.99USD for FotF. With the weak dollar, GW's pricing is absurd. And Mantic's prices become more appealing as you buy in bulk.

nkelsch wrote:I don't like the models, I don't think they are a good value. I don't think I should accept 'excuses' on why I should accept lower quality because it is 'cheaper'. And I am not going to blindly accept the words of some water-carrying mantic bucket brigade.

When i pass trough a post of news about historical miniatures, flames of war or warhammer fantasy, i ignore it, or, when the thing really jump to my eyes, i got there and actually read it.

That is because i dont like historical miniatures, or flames of war, or warhammer fantasy. So if you dont like Mantic products, as you clear pointed, why on hell are you coming in this thread to talk bad about them? Would you like if i gone on a warhammer fantasy thread and started to rant about what i think is not good on that system/miniatures sthetic? If you dont like Mantic, that is perfectly ok, you have that right. Right now i just want a fantasy wargame, with hordes fighting hordes, and that dont fallow that (i)logic that GW call a game, and for that KoW fits for me.

Someone over there, that i will not give me the trouble to search and point by name, acused me, and all people who like mantic and use the Mantic Fanatics banners, to be deceptive liars, hired by mantic to tell people their product is good. Well, i should feel ofended by that, but maybe this guy is just one of those guys hired by GW to speak good about GW products, and bad against other companies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CT GAMER wrote:

Baragash wrote:http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/10/exclusive-painted-warpath-forgefather.html



Much, much better colour scheme.

WOW CT, they look exactly the same guy... Mantic is probably stealing that ideia too, you know, gunslingers shooting with 2 guns are a very orginal ideia. Yeha, Mantic now is stealing IP from PP too. At least now they are not a "GW copy" anymore...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hexol wrote:These initial Warpath armies are pretty "meh" in terms of choice and overall aesthetic. The Dwarfs and Orx just seem like rushed jobs to get a product out. Was it necessary to launch this fall? Why not push it off and launch with the Corp. and the 8th Race, which seems to be their 2 flagship armies (with the Corp being the center of the Universe and the 8th race supposedly being original)? This just seems like a soft launch that could do more harm than good to the image they are trying to create.

I'll reserve overall judgment for the models until I see the Corp, 8th race, Zz'or and maybe Rebs, but I don't think there's any hope for races that might tie back into fantasy (I wouldn't be surprised if The Plague are zombies with axes and revolvers).

While i agree with you about the rushed look, i dont share your view that the scenario goes around the Corp and the 8th race, the corp maybe, but the 8th race, never. They probably dont know what is the 8th race yet themselves. And well, the scenario is fantasy tied, their original ideia was to make "fantasy races on space", whyle that could sound lame, that is their way... I was really excited about this, as i like the concept, and wanted a "world of warcraft in space", but im not impressed too. I reality, im very inclined toward going "fajntasy only", and start to play infinity for sci-fi...

scipio.au wrote:

lord marcus wrote:

scipio.au wrote:Well, the boxed sets are usually where your best value lies, so this is likely as good as it gets. Unless you're just after one army and they do the same thing that they did with the Undead and Dwarfs from the first Mhorgoth's box. (I shoulda gotten the Undead-only one - their dwarfs are awful) In my own opinon.

I guess this is where the Mantic defenders chime in to tell us that we should "cut them some slack" as they're a beginning company, in the same way that we should be cutting them slack for reused Orc sprues. Since they haven't shown the other Forgefathers yet and release is imminent, I'm beginning to assume that they're a half-recycled sprue as well, as per the rumours. I mean, I like to support competition - I just bought the new Warmachine Starter box - but you gotta give us either quality I see nothing wrong with the casting or techincal sculpting in these models. Obviously this is not what you meant, but it is what the word quality means or quantity There are over 50 minis in there, with 2 of them being plastic resin vehicles, and 5 of them being plastic resin infantry, both more expensive to supply then base plastics , and this Boxed set unfortunately gives us neither compared to AOBR, allowing for a 10-12UKP difference.

Fixed and replied too.

And we defend them because they do not deserve the fallacies people Prophesize here as truth, and thus have a right to be defended.

Your reply is a mess. Use quotes, not colours, please.
Every post we make is opinion-based. This includes your good self. Quality can have more than one meaning, and the technical sculpting on the Warpath figures appears to range from quite good, to decent, to (if the forgefathers are in fact recasts of the Fantasy Dwarfs) poor.
I miscounted the Mantic figures (the number of those Orks), so the quantity isn't as bad as I thought, though more FFs and vehicles would make the package seem much more worthwhile compared to AoBR.

"Deserve" is a very emotionally loaded term. I'm not going to get too emotionally invested in the companies that make my little toy soldiers and instead try to speak on matters of sculpt quality, quantity, production quality (hello Finecast!) and the like. I'm sure the Mantic people are great guys in person and want to do as well as they can, but hey, there are guys like that in all of the companies in our hobby (even GW).

I did use a quote. I didn't want to seperate it so as not to loose meaning.

as far as

When they produce quality or great deals I'll recognise them, and when they don't, I'll share my opinion on that as well.

Thats perfectly acceptable. I'm not a Mantic apologist, and the Mantic fanatics group which i created is simply a social group for fans of the company. We're not diehard's, and we're not bucket carriers. Some of us dislike some of Mantic's products

. I just see an unjust amount of hate on dakka towards Mantic when the technical quality and quantity (50 + models in a box, with two different production mediums) IS there.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CT GAMER wrote:

Baragash wrote:http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/10/exclusive-painted-warpath-forgefather.html



Much, much better colour scheme.

WOW CT, they look exactly the same guy... Mantic is probably stealing that ideia too, you know, gunslingers shooting with 2 guns are a very orginal ideia. Yeha, Mantic now is stealing IP from PP too. At least now they are not a "GW copy" anymore...

Maybe take a deep breathe?

It was a simple observation that both have the same tailor. Blue/brass/brown in the same locations, both with two guns, etc.

it was an observation that I found amusing. Nothign was implied, so maybe relax just a tad?

Toy Soldiers are s3rious buisn3ss111

It is funny that Warpath is yet another battle in the endless war between Red and Blue.